Bill Papanastasiou

Bill Papanastasiou inquired about Bullish's future geographical expansion plans after securing the BIT license and expanding to the U.S., asking if the focus would remain on consolidating existing markets or if new tier-one licenses in other regions are being pursued.

Answer

CEO Tom Farley stated that the major geographical bands (Asia, Europe, U.S.) are covered, with the U.K. being a notable exception awaiting legislation. He clarified that while incremental spot and derivatives licenses will continuously be pursued by dedicated staff, the primary focus is on consolidating existing markets and leveraging the global order book rather than major new geographical expansions.

Bill Papanastasiou with KBW asked about Bullish's next strategic steps after successfully securing the BIT license and expanding to the US, specifically inquiring if there are any remaining geographies for tier one licenses or if the focus will be on consolidating existing markets into the global order book.

Answer

CEO Tom Farley stated that there are no major remaining geographies for tier one licenses, with the UK being the only notable exception awaiting legislation, as Bullish has already covered Asia, Europe, and the US. He clarified that the focus will be on continuously gathering incremental licenses for spot, derivatives, and the index business, rather than pursuing new major geographic expansions.

Bill Papanastasiou inquired about additional read-throughs from the BitLicense grant beyond firming up U.S. market penetration timelines, specifically asking if Bullish plans to expand its custody services given the license allows for it.

Answer

Tom Farley, CEO and Chairman, clarified that Bullish is already involved in custody, offering customers options for third-party qualified custodians, self-custody, or their own bespoke solution. He stated that the BitLicense approval does not signify any mega changes or extensive business model changes with respect to custody, though they have other developments in the works.

Bill Papanastasiu inquired about additional read-throughs from the BitLicense grant beyond firming up U.S. market penetration timelines, specifically asking if Bullish plans to expand its custody services.

Answer

CEO Tom Farley clarified that Bullish already offers custody services, allowing customers to use third-party qualified custodians, self-custody, or Bullish's bespoke solution. He stated that the BitLicense approval does not signify any mega changes or extensive business model shifts regarding custody, though some unannounced developments are in the works.

Bill Papanastasiou inquired about additional implications of the BitLicense beyond U.S. market entry, specifically asking if Bullish plans to expand its custody services given the license allows for it.

Answer

Tom Farley, CEO and Chairman, confirmed that Bullish is already involved in custody, offering customers options for third-party qualified custodians, self-custody, or their bespoke solution. He stated that the BitLicense approval does not signify any 'mega changes' to their existing custody business model, though they have other developments in the works.

Bill Papanastasiou asked for HIVE's perspective on the future trends of Bitcoin hash rate and economics following the industry's shift towards AI HPC, and sought guidance on framing estimates between the base case and blue sky opportunities for the HPC stream, including targeted composition.

Answer

Aydin Kilic, CEO and President of HIVE, discussed the recent difficulty adjustments and Bitcoin price fluctuations, noting the hash price floor has been around $40 per petahash per day. He stated HIVE's break-even hash price is about $22, allowing for profitable mining. Regarding HPC, he indicated that realized ARR is expected to fall between the base case and higher-margin cloud stream projections, with initial figures to be seen in fiscal Q3 (calendar Q1).

Bill Papanastasiou sought insights into the future trends of Bitcoin hash rate and mining economics following the industry's pivot to AI HPC, and HIVE's overall Bitcoin mining strategy. He also asked how to frame estimates between the base case and blue sky opportunities for HPC, including targeted composition.

Answer

Aydin Kilic, CEO and President of HIVE, discussed recent Bitcoin difficulty adjustments, hash price fluctuations, and the company's profitable mining operations with a break-even hash price of $22 per hash per day. For HPC, he indicated that realized ARR would likely fall between the base case (long-term contracts) and blue sky (higher-margin cloud platform), with more clarity expected in fiscal Q3 2026.

Bill Papanastasiou of Stifel inquired about HIVE's strategy for further expansion in Paraguay beyond the planned 300 megawatts and asked how SG&A expenses are expected to scale with the company's significant growth.

Answer

Darcy Daubaras, Chief Financial Officer, explained that the company is laser-focused on executing the current 300-megawatt Paraguayan expansion before considering additional growth, although they remain open to future opportunities in Latin America. He clarified that SG&A will not scale linearly with hashrate growth, as the company expects to achieve significant economies of scale from operating larger facilities.

Bill Papanastasiou of Stifel asked about the potential for further expansion in Paraguay beyond the announced 300 megawatts and inquired about the expected impact on SG&A expenses as the business scales.

Answer

Darcy Daubaras, Chief Financial Officer, explained that while other opportunities exist in Latin America, HIVE is currently "laser-focused" on executing the announced 300 MW project before considering more. Regarding expenses, he stated that SG&A will not grow linearly with hashrate due to significant economies of scale from operating larger facilities, ensuring the company remains lean.

Bill Papanastasiou of Stifel Financial Corp. questioned HIVE's outlook on the Bitcoin mining landscape and its scaling philosophy, as well as the sustainability of current market prices and utilization rates for its GPU-as-a-Service business.

Answer

President & CEO Aydin Kilic stated that HIVE's scaling is driven by cash flow and a green energy mandate, which made the Paraguay site a 'home run.' Regarding the GPU business, he explained that while compute prices decline over time, the rate is much slower than for Bitcoin ASICs. He emphasized that delivering high uptime (Tier 3 standard) is a key differentiator and noted that long-term contracts for H-100s are being negotiated in the $2.20 to $2.50 per hour range.

Asked about the company's outlook on the Bitcoin mining landscape and its scaling philosophy, as well as the sustainability of market prices and utilization rates for its GPU as a Service business over the next 1-2 years.

Answer

The company's philosophy is to use cash flow for accretive, green energy growth, exemplified by the Paraguay project. Regarding the GPU business, they stated that GPU hardware values decline slower than ASICs. The key to sustaining revenue is delivering extremely high uptime (Tier 3 standard), which secures long-term contracts at stable rates, such as ~$2.50/hour for H-100s.

Bill Papanastasiou of Stifel Financial Corp. inquired about HIVE's outlook on the Bitcoin mining landscape and its influence on the strategy to double hash rate in Paraguay. He also asked about the sustainability of prevailing market compute prices for HIVE's existing GPU fleet.

Answer

President and CEO Aydin Kilic reiterated that the Paraguay expansion is a 'home run' due to its unique combination of low CapEx, low power costs, and large-scale green energy, which is a key part of their accretive growth strategy. Regarding GPU compute sustainability, Kilic explained that while hourly rates for GPUs decline over time with new hardware releases, the rate of decline is much slower than for Bitcoin ASICs. He emphasized that delivering high uptime and a good user experience are critical for securing long-term, stable revenue contracts.

Bill Papanastasiou asked for CEO Asher Genoot's thoughts on the future opportunity for Bitcoin mining and whether the strategy is changing given the accelerating AI HPC diversification across the peer group.

Answer

CEO Asher Genoot stated that Hut 8 will continue developing large-scale AI/data center platforms, but its pipeline also has assets for American Bitcoin's mining. He praised American Bitcoin's rapid growth in Bitcoin holdings and hash rate, emphasizing its focus on increasing Bitcoin per share. He believes the structural foundation with ABTC, Hirise, and Hut 8 infrastructure will compound value.

Bill Papanastasiou asked for CEO Asher Genoot's thoughts on the future opportunity for Bitcoin mining and whether the strategy is changing given the accelerating AI HPC diversification across the peer group, as American Bitcoin approaches its first three months of independent trading.

Answer

CEO Asher Genoot reiterated that Hut 8 will focus on large-scale AI and data center platforms, while American Bitcoin has ample runway for Bitcoin mining. He highlighted American Bitcoin's impressive performance since its April 1st launch, accumulating 4,000 Bitcoin and 25 exahash, mining 8-10 Bitcoin daily. Genoot acknowledged potential volatility as lockups expire but emphasized focusing on fundamentals and increasing Bitcoin per share for ABTC shareholders. He believes the structural separation of ABTC and HiRise from Hut 8's infrastructure business will compound value over time, noting that Hut 8 increased exahash and Bitcoin mined without dilution to the parent company.

Bill Papanastasiou from Stifel asked about Hut 8's strategy for upgrading its mining fleet following the Bitcoin halving and whether the company's appetite to use its significant Bitcoin holdings for growth has increased.

Answer

CEO Asher Genoot responded that the company's current focus is on net new megawatt expansion rather than immediate fleet upgrades, as existing machines remain cash-flow positive with the help of curtailment software. He confirmed that the strategy to use the Bitcoin stack for accretive growth opportunities has been reassessed, but noted that recent projects like the Salt Creek site were successfully funded through strong operational cash flow, preserving the Bitcoin treasury.

Bill Papanastasiou from Stifel asked about Hut 8's strategy for upgrading its mining fleet following the halving and whether the company's appetite to use its Bitcoin holdings for growth has increased.

Answer

CEO Asher Genoot responded that the immediate focus is on megawatt expansion and maintaining cash-flow positive operations with the current fleet, utilizing curtailment to manage profitability. He noted that while they are monitoring new miner technology, securing new power capacity is the primary bottleneck. Genoot confirmed the company will use its Bitcoin stack for accretive growth opportunities when the investment return is compelling, though recent growth like the Salt Creek site was funded through operational cash flow.

Bill Papanastasiou asked for a vision on how treasury strategies will evolve with increasing blockchain competition and questioned what major infrastructure gaps still prevent traditional finance (TradFi) from fully adopting decentralized finance (DeFi).

Answer

Chairman Joseph Lubin described a long-term paradigm shift toward a decentralized economy, with SharpLink at the forefront. Co-CEO Joseph Chalom added that SharpLink will differentiate through trust, transparency, and scale. Lubin stated that while Ethereum is at a 'mainstream moment,' the key remaining hurdle is usability, which he believes will be solved by advancements like AI-powered agents that simplify user interaction with complex protocols.

Asked for the company's vision on the evolution of treasury strategies amid blockchain competition and inquired about the remaining infrastructure gaps hindering the migration of traditional finance to DeFi.

Answer

The company believes a few large, trusted treasuries will dominate, and they aim to be a leader through transparency and deep expertise from both crypto (Consensus) and traditional finance. While the core infrastructure is ready for mainstream adoption, the primary remaining gap is user experience (UX), which will be solved over time with advancements like AI agents to make the technology more intuitive and accessible for a broader audience.

Bill Papanastasiou asked how management is thinking about diversifying its tenant base at the new Cayuga site versus continuing to scale with its existing partners, FluidStack and Core42.

Answer

CEO Paul Prager stated that while the company has seen 'tremendous amount of demand' from multiple parties and will continue those engagements, the immediate focus is on executing for its new partners, FluidStack and Google. He emphasized the desire to grow with these world-class partners and address the CB5 option before determining the right customer for the Cayuga site.

Bill Papanastasiou asked for the top milestones to monitor for progress in securing new contracts and inquired if the Bitcoin mining segment would see further expansion beyond its previous target.

Answer

CEO Paul Prager identified the single most important milestone as the energization of the first Core42 building (CB-1), which he believes will be the catalyst to convert ongoing discussions into signed contracts. On mining, he stated there are no current plans for expansion, with the focus being on optimizing the existing fleet. Any near-term hash rate changes would come from efficiency gains rather than new capacity.

Bill Papanastasiou of Stifel asked about the competitive landscape for sourcing new HPC sites and the potential impact on future returns. He also requested an update on the company's project financing efforts for its data centers.

Answer

CEO Paul Prager stated that TeraWulf holds a competitive advantage due to its large-scale sites, low-cost power, and unique energy expertise. Both Prager and CFO Patrick Fleury expressed high confidence in securing project financing, citing 'massive demand' from lenders, the engagement of top-tier banks like JPMorgan and Morgan Stanley, and a favorable financing precedent set by their customer, Core42.

Bill Papanastasiou asked for commentary on the sustainability of the high demand for power capacity, particularly looking ahead to 2026 and beyond, as discussions with hyperscalers advance.

Answer

CEO Paul Prager stated that the current demand is just the "tip of the iceberg." He cited third-party projections that data center power demand will triple by 2030 and that overall power demand growth is accelerating from 1% to 5% annually. He argued that this creates a growing scarcity of power, positioning TeraWulf favorably due to its existing infrastructure and development expertise.

Bill Papanastasiou of Keefe, Bruyette & Woods asked for an overview of the Quebec portfolio, specifically requesting which sites are considered most attractive for a potential conversion to AI and HPC.

Answer

CEO Ben Gagnon identified Sherbrooke as the highest priority for conversion in Quebec. He highlighted its 96 MW of power as their largest concentration in the province, offering significant scale. Gagnon also pointed to Sherbrooke's robust infrastructure, strong local political support, and community economic incentives as key factors making it the 'lowest hanging fruit' for HPC development in their Canadian portfolio.

Bill Papanastasiou asked for the company's medium-term outlook on Bitcoin and the mining industry, and inquired about the biggest lessons learned during the strategic pivot to HPC and AI.

Answer

CEO Ben Gagnon reiterated a consistent outlook from mid-2023, having positioned the company for a 2025 Bitcoin bull run with its fleet upgrade. He now sees the best use of capital in HPC electrical infrastructure. A key lesson from the HPC transition was learning the higher level of quality control required, crediting advisors WWT and ASG for helping the company quickly adapt and understand the nuances of HPC development.

Bill Papanastasiou inquired about the expected terms for AI/HPC hosting deals compared to peers and asked about the potential for further divestment of the South American portfolio to fund U.S. growth.

Answer

CEO Ben Gagnon suggested that some high-profile peer deals may not be repeatable and that structures like triple-net leases are attractive. He stated that Bitfarms' remaining South American sites are profitable, cash-flow generating assets, which is a very different situation from the undeveloped Yguazu site. While open to compelling offers, divesting these operating assets is not a current focus.

Bill Papanastasiou from Keefe, Bruyette & Woods asked about the impact of the current tariff environment on fleet expansion and mitigation strategies. He also requested a scenario analysis on the Bitcoin treasury strategy based on price movements and the crypto cycle.

Answer

President and CEO Zachary Bradford explained that tariffs are part of their calculus, and they mitigate them by exploring the secondary market and capitalizing on the trend of manufacturers moving production to North America. CFO Gary Vecchiarelli detailed that in a rising Bitcoin price environment, they sell less BTC to cover OpEx, and in a falling one, they sell more, using derivatives to generate premiums and provide downside protection.

Bill Papanastasiou inquired about the growth strategy beyond 50 exahash and the importance of continued scaling, particularly as peers pivot to AI, creating an opportunity for a pure-play Bitcoin miner.

Answer

Executive Zachary Bradford explained that competitors pivoting to HPC is advantageous as it reduces the global hashrate, thereby increasing CleanSpark's share of the fixed daily Bitcoin rewards. He affirmed that the company will continue to scale strategically and responsibly as long as it remains profitable and value-accretive.

Bill Papanastasiou of Keefe, Bruyette & Woods asked about the strategic plan for Black Pearl Phase 2, specifically the time required to convert from Bitcoin mining to AI/HPC compute, and the current level of interest from hyperscalers in partnering with miners.

Answer

CEO Tyler Page explained that Black Pearl Phase 2 is being designed as a flexible "tier one-half" data center, enabling a rapid conversion to HPC in under six months. He noted that while hyperscaler interest was quieter in Q2, it significantly revived in July, and he believes they are increasingly viewing miners as viable partners for their power needs.

Bill Papanastasiou asked how Cipher evaluates the terms of a potential HPC deal given the highly attractive revenue currently generated from bitcoin mining, and also requested an outlook for capital expenditures in 2025 and 2026.

Answer

CEO Tyler Page contrasted the two business models, explaining that while bitcoin mining offers high but cyclical returns, an HPC lease provides a stable, long-term revenue stream from a creditworthy tenant that is highly financeable with low-cost debt. For CapEx, he outlined approximately $200 million remaining for Black Pearl Phase 1. He noted that building out Phase 2 for bitcoin mining would cost an additional $260 million, a path they could pursue by raising capital if an HPC deal does not materialize.

Bill Papanastasiou of Stifel asked for color on the capacity demands from hyperscalers, including whether they are looking at multiple sites, and questioned the changing difficulty of securing new greenfield power sites in Texas.

Answer

CEO Tyler Page explained that hyperscalers are showing an "outsized focus" on capacity available in 2025, typically screening for sites of at least 100-150 MW. He noted that securing sites is getting more challenging, which is why Cipher has moved earlier in the development cycle with its "3Ms" purchase options. Page highlighted a trend where grid operators are pushing hyperscalers to pair new load with new generation, which increases lead times and makes Cipher's existing interconnected sites more valuable.

Bill Papanastasiou asked about the feasibility of shifting manufacturing to the United States to mitigate the impact of tariffs and what management considers the best option.

Answer

CEO Nangeng Zhang confirmed that Canaan has successfully run a small-scale trial production in the U.S. but noted the process is extremely complex and costly. The internal goal is to limit the cost increase to 15-20% over Malaysian production, but it is not yet commercially viable. CFO Jin James Cheng added that a larger-scale move is a dilemma dependent on U.S. customer demand justifying the higher costs.

Bill Papanastasiou asked for color on the progress toward self-mining hashrate targets and how this might impact external hardware sales, questioning if internal production can sustain both internal growth and external market share expansion.

Answer

CEO Nangeng Zhang confirmed that as of February 2025, the company had over 6 EH/s deployed globally and is on track for its 10 EH/s North American target for the first half of the year. He stated that the company's operations are smooth and self-mining expansion will be managed to keep cash flow healthy. He acknowledged that Canaan's market share is small compared to competitors and that the focus is on gaining share. The call was disconnected due to technical difficulties before the answer was fully completed.

Bill Papanastasiou inquired whether CoreWeave would likely take the additional 800 megawatts of capacity at Helios once approved, or if Galaxy would prioritize tenant diversification. He also asked about the company's appetite for raising corporate-level capital.

Answer

Founder and CEO Michael Novogratz stated that while CoreWeave is an excellent partner, Galaxy's long-term strategy is to build a diversified portfolio with multiple tenants to manage credit risk. He confirmed the unallocated capacity is available for other clients. Regarding capital, he acknowledged that as a growth company, they will raise capital and are evaluating all avenues, including debt, converts, and equity, to find the optimal solution.

Bill Papanastasiou asked for an update on the GK8 custody software licensing following the repeal of SAB 121, whether the CoreWeave deal included a revenue prepayment, and how quickly CoreWeave might exercise its remaining options.

Answer

Executive Christopher Ferraro called the SAB 121 repeal a major but not final step for institutional adoption, noting other regulatory work is needed. He highlighted GK8's selection as the tech backbone for the AllUnity euro stablecoin as a key win. He confirmed there was no prepayment for Phase 1 of the CoreWeave deal and expects CoreWeave to move quickly on its options to secure future capacity.

Bill Papanastasiou asked about Galaxy's methodology for allocating power capacity at its Helios facility between Bitcoin mining and AI high-performance computing (HPC). He also inquired about the expected economic trends for both types of compute over the next year.

Answer

Executive Christopher Ferraro explained that the decision is driven by economics. While increased power demand for AI could positively impact Bitcoin mining globally by constraining hash rate growth, the economics of the AI/HPC opportunity at Helios are 'clearly more interesting' for Galaxy. He indicated the move is a strategic shift, with the AI partner's demand expected to encompass the vast majority of the site's capacity, rather than a dynamic, ongoing allocation between the two uses.

Bill Papanastasiou inquired about the expected cadence for signing new XO Swap partnerships following the successful Ledger integration and asked how to model take rates from exchange processed volumes, considering the impact of major partnerships on future revenue contributions.

Answer

CEO J. Richardson explained that while Exodus is in talks with all major players, large partnership deals have long lead times due to trust and integration complexities, so he could not commit to a specific timeline for new announcements. CFO James Gernetzke added that the public success of the Ledger partnership serves as a powerful case study for other potential partners. Regarding take rates, he noted that while they are always working to improve them, the revenue-share component means XO Swap margins will inherently be lower than the core exchange aggregator. The focus is on adding value through new products and features across all offerings.

Bill Papanastasiou asked for details on the composition of the 50-100 megawatt enterprise pipeline customers and their potential to scale, and requested an update on the delivery timeline and tariff impact for the 3-nanometer Block ASICs.

Answer

CEO Adam Sullivan clarified that the pipeline opportunities are with large enterprises that have the potential to scale across multiple sites, becoming long-term partners. He reiterated that the Block ASICs are expected in H2 2025 and that the financial impact from tariffs is insulated due to the contract's fixed-price nature.

Bill Papanastasiou asked about the supply-demand dynamic with new, lower-quality operators entering the market and whether this gives hyperscalers more leverage. He also questioned how demand for inference versus training workloads is impacting site acquisition.

Answer

CEO Adam Sullivan explained that hyperscalers are now performing more rigorous due diligence, which benefits experienced operators like Core Scientific. He also noted a strategic shift in demand away from large-scale training sites toward locations closer to major metropolitan areas for lower latency, which is now guiding the company's site evaluation process.

Bill Papanastasiou of Keefe, Bruyette & Woods asked how the Rhodium settlement would impact cash OpEx and the quarterly SG&A target. He also questioned if the company had narrowed down its preferred deal structure for the data center business from the options discussed previously.

Answer

CEO Jason Les reiterated the cash SG&A run-rate guidance of $30-$33 million per quarter, clarifying this excludes unpredictable, one-off expenses like litigation related to the Rhodium settlement. He stated that while open to any value-maximizing option, the company is increasingly focused on a build-to-suit data center model as the optimal path, which would likely involve a JV and a financing partner.

Bill Papanastasiou inquired about Riot's strategy for minimizing dilution while increasing Bitcoin per share and whether other structured products might be issued. He also asked about the plan for designing and engineering the AI/HPC data centers, including the need for external partners.

Answer

CEO Jason Les emphasized that minimizing dilution is central to the Bitcoin Yield strategy, achieved through low-cost mining and seeking the least dilutive financing. On the data center build-out, he stated that while Riot has significant in-house expertise, it will be supplemented by both internal hires and third-party partners as required by the final deal structure.

Bill Papanastasiou asked if Riot could quantify the demand growth from the AI/HPC space for its ESS Metron subsidiary and its scalability. He also inquired about management's strategy for its active stake in Bitfarms following their settlement agreement.

Answer

CEO Jason Les stated that demand for ESS Metron's products is very robust, limited primarily by facility size, and that they are exploring ways to increase capacity. Regarding Bitfarms, Les explained that as a large shareholder, Riot wants them to succeed and will continue to evaluate its position based on market dynamics and Bitfarms' execution, having made no final decisions on its long-term plans for the stake.

Bill Papanastasiou of Stifel inquired about the feasibility and priority of international sites for AI/HPC development, and asked for an updated capital allocation strategy given the evolving mix between Bitcoin mining and HPC.

Answer

Head of Capital Markets Jeff LaBerge noted that EU sites are attractive due to power constraints and data privacy laws, potentially offering a longer opportunity tail than the U.S. market. Executive Haris Basit added it's too early to detail differences in financing or risk. Jeff LaBerge reiterated that the capital allocation strategy remains focused on a long-term, diversified mix of stable HPC revenue and Bitcoin mining revenue.

Asked about the impact of the recent hash price increase on revenue, and in a follow-up question, inquired about the company's strategy to remain profitable after the upcoming halving.

Answer

The company is closely monitoring the hash price, noting that every $10 increase adds approximately $2.5 million in quarterly revenue. For the halving, the strategy is to focus on controllable factors like their efficient fleet (around 30 J/TH) and competitive power costs (average $0.045/kWh). They expect hashrate to come offline from less efficient miners and are also exploring hedging with derivatives to remain competitive.

Requested an update on the company's plans for divesting non-core assets.

Answer

The company is in advanced discussions to sell non-core assets, such as excess inventory and real estate. The proceeds from these sales are intended to be used for further deleveraging the balance sheet. Management is confident a deal will be finalized in the near future.