George Gianarikas

George Gianarikas asked about the resolution process for ASC's ownership stake to ensure PFE compliance and the evolving competitive landscape, particularly concerning data centers and new entrants like Ford converting EV battery lines to BESS.

Answer

Julian Nebreda, President and CEO of Fluence Energy, stated that their primary objective with ASC is access to PFE-compliant cells at competitive terms. He confirmed ASC would resolve the ownership issue without Fluence's involvement, expressing confidence in ASC's ability to meet legal conditions. Nebreda also highlighted the rapidly expanding US cell market, with EV battery lines converting to BESS, creating a diversified supply base, and noted no significant change in the competitive environment, despite new entrants.

George Gianarikas asked about the resolution of ASC's ownership stake to ensure PFE compliance and the competitive landscape, particularly in data centers, with new entrants like Ford converting EV cell supply to energy storage.

Answer

Julian Nebreda (President and CEO, Fluence Energy) stated that Fluence's priority is PFE-compliant cells at competitive terms. He confirmed ASC would resolve the ownership issue independently and expressed confidence in them. He also highlighted the expanding U.S. cell market due to EV battery lines converting to BESS production, creating a diverse supply. Regarding competition, he noted a diversification of battery cell suppliers rather than a change in the competitive environment, welcoming competition as a driver of innovation and expressing optimism for the U.S. battery storage market.

George Gianarikas asked about the competitive environment in both the U.S. and international markets, inquiring about any recent changes. He also followed up on the gross margin guidance for fiscal year 2026, seeking clarification on whether the expected improvement over time refers to margins exceeding the 11-13% range in subsequent years.

Answer

President and CEO Julian Nebreda noted that the international competitive market remains largely unchanged, driven by Chinese players. In the U.S., he observed a shift towards customers preferring U.S. or non-PFE manufacturers, even when not legally mandated. CFO Ahmed Pasha confirmed that the goal is to continue improving the gross margin trendline beyond the 2026 guidance, aligning with the company's historical 10-15% target range.

George Gianarikas of Canaccord Genuity Group Inc. asked about the ownership structure of the AESC partnership and the company's plans to mitigate potential political risks, such as FEOC (Foreign Entity of Concern) restrictions. He also questioned the current competitive landscape in the U.S. and whether pressure from Chinese vendors has changed.

Answer

CEO Julian Nebreda acknowledged the potential risk of future FEOC restrictions on battery storage. He stated that Fluence has proactively worked with AESC to develop a plan to ensure compliance with any potential ownership restrictions that may arise, emphasizing that their interests are aligned. Regarding competition, Nebreda noted that the current tariff uncertainty has put the U.S. market in a "wait mode," making it difficult to assess the competitive landscape. However, he believes Fluence's two-year head start on its domestic supply chain strategy provides a significant advantage over competitors reliant on Chinese imports.

George Gianarikas asked why the fiscal 2026 revenue growth guidance of 30%+ remains unchanged despite project pushouts from 2025, and inquired about any potential liability from the recent Moss Landing facility incident.

Answer

President and CEO Julian Nebreda explained that the 2026 guidance is a conservative "floor" that will be firmed up as more backlog is secured. Regarding Moss Landing, he stated Fluence has no contract or presence at the site since 2022 and expects no liability, having only seen press reports.

George Gianarikas asked about the reliability of Fluence's fiscal 2025 revenue guidance and backlog, given the back-end loaded forecast and political changes. He also inquired about the company's competitive market share against rivals like Tesla.

Answer

President and CEO Julian Nebreda expressed high confidence in the guidance, citing that two-thirds of the forecast is already in the backlog, with another $1.5 billion in late-stage negotiations. He noted that Fluence's market share is sustaining, and the company competes effectively through innovation and its resilient U.S. supply chain, despite aggressive pricing from some Chinese competitors.

George Gianarikas asked about the competitive environment supporting LSI's conviction for above-market growth and the impact of higher interest rates on M&A return dynamics, pipeline, and available acquisition pool.

Answer

President and CEO Jim Clark attributed above-market growth to market disruptions in C-store and grocery, aggressive new entrants, and LSI's differentiated, 'category of one' solutions-based approach. He noted that higher rates have led to a 'leveling effect' in M&A, resulting in more realistic multiples and business-oriented conversations, which benefits strategic acquirers like LSI despite being selective buyers.

George Gianarikas asked about the competitive environment and the factors driving LSI's conviction for above-market growth, as stated in the press release. He also inquired about the impact of higher interest rates on M&A return dynamics, the acquisition pipeline, and the available pool of targets.

Answer

President and CEO Jim Clark attributed LSI's confidence in above-market growth to its strategy of focusing on markets with long-term disruptions, such as aggressive new entrants in C-store and significant investment in grocery shopper experience. He believes LSI's comprehensive product and service offerings create a unique competitive advantage. Regarding M&A, Jim Clark noted that while rates are higher, the environment is more favorable for strategic acquirers due to more realistic multiples and business-oriented discussions, contrasting it with the 'fever pitch' of prior years. He emphasized LSI's selective approach, prioritizing cultural fit alongside financial performance.

George Gianarikas sought clarification on whether the recent surge in order activity was exclusive to the Grocery market, asked if the surge caused delivery delays for other verticals, and requested an update on industry bottlenecks like permitting and supply chain.

Answer

President and CEO James Clark clarified that while the Grocery segment was the primary driver of the Q2 surge, the petroleum C-store and QSR verticals also continue to show very strong momentum. He stated that no customer orders were delayed, as the company had built-in capacity for growth and chose to absorb ramp-up inefficiencies rather than push out deliveries. On bottlenecks, Clark explained that permitting timelines have stabilized at a new, longer normal that is now factored into planning, and that supply chain issues are now more about site coordination with other contractors rather than LSI's own material availability.

George Gianarikas of Canaccord Genuity sought to understand the common factors driving fluctuating demand across different vertical markets and asked about the company's appetite for further acquisitions, given its low net leverage.

Answer

President and CEO James Clark explained there is no single common thread for demand fluctuations, but noted that larger projects are experiencing timing delays. He specified that while the warehouse vertical is down, C-store is 'spectacularly' up and grocery is recovering. On M&A, Clark stated the company is consistently evaluating opportunities and it is 'very likely' they would execute another deal in calendar year 2025 if the right one arises, citing the successful EMI integration.

George Gianarikas asked about Mobileye's view on the competitive environment, particularly in light of recent announcements from NVIDIA and other players in the advanced autonomous solution space, and then followed up on the specific differentiation of Mentee Robotics in the humanoid space.

Answer

Nimrod Nehushtan, EVP of Business Development and Strategy, stated Mobileye believes it is closer to launching advanced products than competitors, highlighting the maturity and advancements of their technology. He dismissed some competitor announcements as 'noise' and 'simplistic descriptions.' Amnon Shashua, CEO and Founder, elaborated on Mentee's differentiation, emphasizing its fully autonomous control, vertical integration, continuous learning capabilities from passive observation, and practical approach for industrial and logistics markets. Mr. Nehushtan added that Mentee is actively engaging with customers on pure AI-driven proof of concepts, leveraging Mobileye's strengths in computer vision, AI, safety, and cost-efficiency.

George Gianarikas asked about Mobileye's view on the competitive environment in advanced autonomous solutions, particularly in light of recent announcements from NVIDIA and others at CES, and followed up on Mentee Robotics' differentiation among humanoid startups.

Answer

Nimrod Nehushtan (EVP of Business Development and Strategy, Mobileye) and Amnon Shashua (CEO and Founder, Mobileye) explained that Mobileye believes it is closer to launching advanced products, emphasizing technology maturity and advancements. They acknowledged competitive noise but did not see NVIDIA's Alpamayo as a market-changing factor. For Mentee Robotics, Amnon highlighted its fully autonomous control, vertical integration, continuous learning from passive human observation, and practical approach to structured environments. Nimrod added that Mentee is uniquely engaging with customers on pure AI pilots, leveraging Mobileye's expertise for acceleration.

George Gianarikas asked for details on the accelerating OEM interest in Mobileye's Robotaxi solution, the competitive landscape for this technology, and the specifics of the business model, including price per system and the potential for recurring revenue per mile.

Answer

CEO Amnon Shashua highlighted substantial volume expectations with partners like Volkswagen/MOIA and Holon, plus relationships with Marubeni, Uber, and Lyft. EVP Nimrod Nehushtan positioned Mobileye as a unique, scalable, and cost-efficient provider for OEMs, particularly in Europe. Amnon Shashua confirmed the business model includes both an upfront payment for the system and a recurring revenue stream based on cost-per-mile.

George Gianarikas of Canaccord Genuity asked about the competitive landscape in OEM bake-offs, specifically against companies like Waymo or Tesla, and for an opinion on Tesla's FSD progress.

Answer

CEO Amnon Shashua stated that for 2027-2028 production programs, Mobileye does not see companies like Waymo or Tesla as direct competitors, positioning them as being far from production-ready. Executive Daniel Galves commented on Tesla's FSD, expressing strong conviction that Mobileye's platform will exceed it, emphasizing Mobileye's focus on achieving the high precision and mean-time-between-failure required for a true eyes-off system.

George Gianarikas asked for an update on progress with lower-cost chipsets for emerging markets. He also inquired about the long-term evolution of the vehicle sensor suite, questioning if imaging radar could eventually replace Lidar.

Answer

An executive, likely Nimrod Nehushtan, confirmed that Mobileye is on track to have a cost-optimized system for emerging markets ready for production within a year and has won important RFQs in India. CEO Amnon Shashua described imaging radar as a key sensor to complement cameras. While current Chauffeur and Drive programs use Lidar, he speculated that a future with only cameras and imaging radar is imaginable, though this is not the current roadmap.

George Gianarikas asked for more details on FuelCell Energy's data center traction, including conversations with DPP partners, potential bottlenecks, and where the most significant opportunities lie over the next six to twelve months. He also requested an update on the carbon capture collaboration with ExxonMobil.

Answer

President and CEO Jason Few explained that the partnership with Diversified Energy focuses on powered land solutions, offering gas and power to real estate and data center developers. Broader data center discussions with hyperscalers and utilities show strong interest in FuelCell's distributed generation, rapid time to power, modularity (1.25 MW blocks), and integration with steam absorption chilling for efficient cooling. For ExxonMobil, Mr. Few confirmed module construction for the Rotterdam demonstration is complete, with the project expected to be operational in late 2026, demonstrating over 90% CO2 capture alongside power and hydrogen production.

George Gianarikas inquired about the progress of data center traction, specifically the conversations with DPP partners and any bottlenecks, as well as an update on the ExxonMobil carbon capture opportunity.

Answer

President and CEO Jason Few detailed the collaboration with Diversified Energy for powered land solutions, highlighting strong interest in distributed generation, time to power, modularity (1.25 MW blocks), and integration with steam absorption chilling for data center cooling. For ExxonMobil, Mr. Few confirmed that construction of modules for the Rotterdam demonstration is complete, with the project expected to be operational in the latter half of 2026 to demonstrate 90%+ CO2 capture, power, and hydrogen production, with commercial opportunities to follow.

George Gianarikas of Canaccord Genuity Inc. asked about the tangible momentum of the Dedicated Power Partners (DPP) initiative, specifically regarding customer acquisition, and inquired about the potential timeline to reach the 100-megawatt production rate needed for EBITDA neutrality.

Answer

Jason Few, President & CEO, confirmed that FuelCell Energy is in active pursuit of several opportunities with data center customers in Northern Virginia and Kentucky through the DPP partnership and feels positive about the momentum. Michael Bishop, EVP, CFO & Treasurer, clarified that achieving the 100 MW production rate, which enables positive adjusted EBITDA, is paced by order flow and does not require additional capital expenditure as the capacity already exists.

George Gianarikas of Canaccord Genuity asked for an update on the company's tri-generation project and whether there is broader customer interest in similar technology. He also requested guidance on the revenue run-rate required for the company to achieve positive Adjusted EBITDA.

Answer

President and CEO Jason Few noted that the domestic clean hydrogen market for transportation has been delayed by regulatory uncertainty. EVP, CFO, and Treasurer Mike Bishop stated that Q1 represents a revenue low point, with significant growth expected from GGE module deliveries. He clarified that reaching EBITDA positivity is dependent on the commercialization of solid oxide technology and increasing factory utilization, without providing a specific revenue target.

Inquired about updates on the tri-gen project, customer interest in similar projects, and the revenue run-rate required to achieve positive EBITDA.

Answer

The tri-gen project is facing delays due to policy uncertainty around hydrogen tax credits. While Q1 revenue was a low point and is expected to grow significantly due to GGE module shipments, the company is not yet EBITDA-positive. Achieving profitability depends on commercializing new technologies like solid oxide and increasing factory output, which is order-dependent.

George Gianarikas of Canaccord Genuity Group Inc. asked about the impact of the recent restructuring on FuelCell Energy's operating model, growth profile, and timeline to achieving EBITDA and free cash flow breakeven.

Answer

President and CEO Jason Few explained that the restructuring aims to shorten the path to profitability by narrowing the company's focus and is expected to reduce operating costs by approximately 15% in fiscal 2025. EVP, CFO, and Treasurer Mike Bishop added that capital expenditures are also being reduced to a range of $20 million to $25 million. Bishop noted strong revenue visibility for 2025, driven by GGE module deliveries, which is expected to materially increase revenue and reduce EBITDA use, though a specific breakeven date was not provided.

George Gianarikas asked about the sequencing of A250 and A1000 product deployments in 2026 and sought a definition of what commercialization success would look like by the end of next year.

Answer

Chief Commercialization Officer Bryan Barton indicated that the A250 product would likely launch a few months before the A1000 due to its simpler two-chamber design. He defined commercialization success by firming demand signals for deployments and units (via WPA or direct sales) and delivering products that achieve compelling economics for customers.

George Gianarikas with Canaccord Genuity inquired about the latest developments regarding Kopin's neural display technology and sought clarification on the expected quarterly operating expenses, particularly after the Blue Radio situation.

Answer

CEO Michael Murray detailed the neural display's demonstration at AUSA, highlighting its capability for eye-controlled drone applications for soldiers and its strategic roadmap following color micro-LED development. CFO Erich Manz indicated that operating expenses are not expected to significantly change, despite headwinds, with a focus on growing into them. Michael Murray further clarified that the $500,000 legal expense for the Colorado lawsuit appeal is a one-time cost, and SG&A is projected to normalize to current levels throughout 2026.

George Gianarikas inquired about the latest developments and progress regarding Kopin's neural display technology and sought clarification on the expected quarterly operating expenses (OpEx) following the resolution of the Blue Radio matter.

Answer

CEO Michael Murray detailed the neural display's demonstration at AUSA, highlighting its application for eye-controlled drone operations for soldiers, and confirmed its roadmap for development after the color micro-LED. CFO Erich Manz indicated that OpEx spending is not expected to change significantly, while Michael Murray clarified that the $500,000 legal expense for the Colorado appeal is a one-time cost, with SG&A expected to normalize to current levels throughout 2026.

George Gianarikas from Canaccord Genuity sought clarification on the full-year 2025 revenue guidance, questioning the previously stated range. He also asked for an update on the progress of bringing the NeuralDisplay technology to commercialization.

Answer

CEO Michael Murray and CFO Rich Sneider confirmed they had conservatively lowered guidance from the initial $52-$55 million range due to geopolitical and tariff uncertainties, but still anticipate double-digit growth for the year. Regarding NeuralDisplay, Murray clarified it is a human-in-the-loop technology platform, not related to Neuralink, and that the company expects to have a demonstrable headset featuring the technology ready for a potential roadshow in the next quarter.

George Gianarikas of Canaccord Genuity inquired about the technical progress and commercial readiness of Kopin's Neural Display, and also asked for clarity on the expected operating expense development for 2025.

Answer

CEO Michael Murray stated that the Neural Display is currently demonstrable, with the next major milestone being its integration into a headset for live demonstrations expected this year. CFO Richard Sneider addressed operating expenses, guiding for annual SG&A between $10 million and $12 million and budgeting internal R&D at 7% of revenues, noting that total R&D fluctuates based on customer-funded projects.

George Gianarikas requested an update on the Volkswagen relationship, particularly concerning the joint venture, given recent headlines. He also asked about Rivian's potential role in the robotaxi market, considering peers' partnerships with rideshare companies.

Answer

CEO RJ Scaringe affirmed the Volkswagen relationship is strong and productive, highlighting the upcoming Volkswagen ID.1, which leverages Rivian's technology platform, as the first of many collaborative programs. Regarding robotaxis, RJ Scaringe emphasized Rivian's focus on developing autonomy for personally owned vehicles, which account for over 95% of miles driven, but acknowledged the opportunity to participate in robotaxi partnerships, with more details to be shared at Autonomy and AI Day.

George Gianarikas requested an update on the Volkswagen relationship amidst recent headlines. He also asked about Rivian's potential role in the robotaxi market, considering peers' partnerships with rideshare companies.

Answer

RJ Scaringe, CEO, described the Volkswagen relationship as incredibly productive and strong, highlighting the upcoming one-year anniversary of the joint venture and the Volkswagen ID.1 as an exciting initial product. Regarding robotaxis, he emphasized that autonomy will be a key driver for consumer purchase decisions in personally owned vehicles, which account for over 95% of miles driven. While acknowledging the opportunity for robotaxi partnerships, Rivian's primary focus is on its core autonomy technology roadmap, which will be detailed at the upcoming Autonomy and AI Day.

George Gianarikas asked about Rivian's marketing strategy to boost the R2's appeal in a challenging EV market and inquired about any new momentum or wins for its commercial vehicle business.

Answer

CEO RJ Scaringe explained the core R2 strategy is to attract non-EV buyers by offering a superior product in the heart of the market (midsize SUV, ~$50k price point), making it the 'best choice' overall, not just the best EV. For commercial vehicles, he highlighted the strengthening partnership with Amazon, with more van deliveries in 2H 2025, which has hardened the platform and positioned it as a top choice for other fleets looking to electrify.

George Gianarikas asked about technologies Rivian is developing to increase overall EV adoption, beyond lower-priced models, such as advancements in charging or battery technology. He also inquired if other OEMs have approached Rivian for collaborations similar to the Volkswagen joint venture.

Answer

CEO Robert Scaringe emphasized that the biggest driver for adoption is more compelling product choices under $50,000, which is R2's focus. He also highlighted Rivian's efforts in building out its high-uptime charging network and the belief that advanced autonomy features will attract more customers to EVs. Regarding other OEMs, Scaringe stated that while the company is open to future engagement, its current focus is on executing the numerous programs within the Volkswagen Group partnership.

George Gianarikas asked for details on the expected quarterly delivery cadence for 2025, including the timing of the planned plant shutdown. He also sought commentary on the status of the Department of Energy (DOE) loan amid potential uncertainty in Washington.

Answer

CEO RJ Scaringe confirmed a planned one-month plant shutdown in the second half of 2025 to integrate the R2 line with the shared paint and stamping shops, noting that Q1 and Q2 production is designed to build inventory to manage this. CFO Claire McDonough expressed confidence in working with the administration on the DOE loan, highlighting the 7,500 U.S. manufacturing jobs it would support.

George Gianarikas asked about the extent of Rivian's collaboration on vehicle aesthetics with Volkswagen, given the Scout's appearance, and requested an update on commercial vehicle traction beyond Amazon.

Answer

CEO RJ Scaringe clarified that the VW joint venture is strictly focused on electrical architecture and software, with all vehicle design and UI decisions remaining with the VW Group brands. On commercial vans, he noted the long sales cycle but stated that the company is beginning to see early results from its efforts and expects more traction in 2025.

George Gianarikas inquired about the broad outlook for 2026, considering weaker power outages, the pull from data center generators, and the potential roll-off of the Puerto Rico energy grant program.

Answer

President and CEO Aaron Jagdfeld discussed 2026 by product category: residential products (home standby, portables) are expected to grow nicely due to easy comps, dealer base expansion, and improved lead generation, despite a weak Q3 2025. Residential energy technology sales are projected to contract in 2026 due to the end of the Puerto Rico grant and federal tax credit reductions, though long-term trends remain positive. C&I products, particularly data center generators, have strong visibility with a $300 million backlog for 2026, and Generac aims to aggressively expand capacity beyond $500 million.

George Gianarikas inquired about the broad outlook for 2026, considering the impact of weaker power outages, the growing demand for data center generators, and the potential roll-off of the Puerto Rico energy grant program.

Answer

President and CEO Aaron Jagdfeld discussed the residential segment, noting sequential growth despite historically low Q3 outages, and projected growth in 2026 with a return to baseline outages, increased dealer count, and improved close rates. For energy technology, he acknowledged a likely market contraction in 2026 due to federal incentive loss but highlighted long-term positive trends and Ecobee's strong performance. He expressed confidence in the C&I segment, citing a $300 million backlog for 2026 and plans to aggressively expand capacity beyond $500 million.

George Gianarikas of Canaccord Genuity asked about the apparent change in tone regarding Generac's willingness to invest in the solar and inverter market, and requested an update on the financial dilution from the CleanTech business.

Answer

Chairman, President & CEO Aaron Jagdfeld clarified that the company is 'laser focused' on improving the profitability of its residential energy technology business. He acknowledged the solar market will likely contract due to policy changes but believes eliminating subsidies is a long-term positive. He reiterated that solar and storage remain important to the company's residential energy ecosystem strategy. CFO York Ragen quantified the EBITDA margin drag from the business at 300-400 basis points in the first half of the year, expecting 300-350 for the full year.

George Gianarikas asked for any data or anecdotes that suggest a softening in the business, prompting the decision to widen the full-year guidance range.

Answer

President and CEO Aaron P. Jagdfeld responded that while consumer spending is currently holding up, the widened guidance proactively reflects the historical dampening effect of higher prices on consumer demand. He emphasized that power outages remain the primary business driver, making sales resilient, and noted the company's agility in reacting to the uncertain trade and economic environment.

George Gianarikas asked about ecobee's expected profitability in 2025 and the corresponding margin dilution from the broader energy technology business, also questioning if the segment is still on track for breakeven in 2026.

Answer

CFO York Ragen confirmed that ecobee achieved profitability in Q4 2024 and is expected to be profitable for the full year 2025. He stated the overall energy technology business's EBITDA margin dilution will improve from about 3.5-4% in 2024 to 3-3.5% in 2025. CEO Aaron P. Jagdfeld added that new products are critical and that long-term megatrends of lower power quality and higher power prices support the strategic investments in this area.

George Gianarikas of Canaccord Genuity asked for an update on the performance of Generac's European business and the expected timing for a potential rebound.

Answer

President and CEO Aaron P. Jagdfeld explained that market weakness, which began with portable generators, has now expanded to the broader C&I product category in Europe, with Germany being particularly challenging. He anticipates that a domestic C&I recovery will likely precede a European one, suggesting softness in Europe could persist through most of 2025. However, he noted this is partially offset by surprising strength in Latin America.

George Gianarikas inquired about Aurora Innovation's strategy for transitioning from terminal-to-terminal operations to direct endpoint-to-endpoint shipments, and later asked for clarification on the accelerated deployment of 'hundreds of trucks' in 2026 and the nature of the new partnership with International.

Answer

Co-Founder and CEO Chris Urmson and CFO David Maday explained that endpoint-to-endpoint is not a significant technical challenge, with 80% of customer endpoints within five miles of a highway, and is part of a deliberate, phased rollout. Chris Urmson confirmed the 'hundreds of trucks' target for 2026 aligns with previous guidance and clarified that the International relationship involves Aurora purchasing stock trucks for self-upfit, distinct from co-development partnerships with Volvo and PACCAR, aimed at fortifying near-term capacity.

George Gianarikas asked about Aurora Innovation's strategy and timeline for transitioning from terminal-to-terminal to endpoint-to-endpoint driverless shipments, and inquired about the acceleration of truck deployments for the next year, specifically if it's enabled by a new partnership with International.

Answer

Co-Founder and CEO Chris Urmson and CFO David Maday clarified that endpoint-to-endpoint operations are not a significant technical challenge, with 80% of endpoints within five miles of a highway. They emphasized a deliberate, phased rollout tied to technology maturity and all-weather operation. Chris Urmson confirmed the target of 'hundreds of trucks next year' is consistent with previous statements. David Maday explained that the relationship with International involves purchasing stock trucks for Aurora to upfit, not a co-development, to fortify volumes and meet customer demand, with driverless International LT Series trucks expected in Q2 2026.

George Gianarikas of Canaccord Genuity inquired about the operational plans for the 20 Volvo trucks expected by year-end, specifically asking if they would operate with a human observer. He also asked about the commercial momentum and inbound interest from new partners since the driverless launch.

Answer

Co-Founder & CEO Chris Urmson stated the initial Volvo trucks will be used for development and bring-up, not for driverless operations by year-end, pending Volvo's timeline. Urmson confirmed a surge in the sales funnel, with exciting conversations with carriers and fleet operators now that Aurora is selling a "real product" instead of a "promise."

George Gianarikas asked about the complexities of bringing an autonomous solution to market that competitors may underestimate and whether Aurora's long-term financial guidance from its Analyst Day remains intact.

Answer

CEO Chris Urmson explained that beyond core software, Aurora's competitive moat includes its deep OEM partnerships, multi-year hardware industrialization process, and a proprietary, rapid validation framework. CFO David Maday added that while the 2028 financial ambitions are directionally unchanged, the timeline has shifted slightly right due to the launch timing. He reaffirmed confidence in the company's stated capital needs to reach positive free cash flow.

George Gianarikas asked about Aurora's confidence in scaling lanes post-launch, the role of remote assistance, and details on hardware cost reductions, particularly concerning the NVIDIA partnership and the proprietary nature of its technology.

Answer

CEO Christopher Urmson expressed high confidence in lane scaling due to the similarity of the U.S. freeway network. He detailed a multi-generational hardware strategy with partners like Fabrinet and Continental to drive down costs at scale. Urmson clarified that while the NVIDIA SoC is an off-the-shelf component, Aurora's unique value lies in its proprietary system integration, design, and reliability engineering.

George Gianarikas asked for more detail on the remaining validation work that pushed the commercial launch to April 2025, the company's conviction in this new timeline, and whether the delay was related to OEM partners. He also followed up about potential financial penalties from the extended timeline.

Answer

CEO Christopher Urmson expressed high conviction in the April 2025 date, stating the delay is modest and consistent with prior guidance. He clarified the remaining work is primarily on surface street driving and rare construction elements, which is an internal execution matter and not related to OEM partners. Urmson also confirmed there are no financial penalties for the delay, and Aurora will continue pilot operations with human drivers.

George Gianarikas of Canaccord Genuity Group inquired about the timeline for heavy-duty trucking pilot programs to impact the P&L, the financial effects of tariffs, the outlook for Q4 sequential revenue growth and EBITDA breakeven, and the technology behind a recent solid-state battery patent.

Answer

CCO Wade Seaburg projected significant revenue from heavy-duty trucking in the first half of 2026, citing fleet delays in new truck orders, but noted pilot programs will ramp up in H2 2025. CEO Denis Phares explained that tariff impacts are managed through better inventory pricing, cost pass-throughs, and domestic assembly advantages. Phares also confirmed expectations for a Q4 revenue ramp driven by RV and new markets, and detailed that the new patent covers the critical feedstock preparation for their dry electrode process in solid-state batteries.

George Gianarikas of Canaccord Genuity Group inquired about the timeline for heavy-duty trucking pilot programs to impact the P&L, the financial effects of tariffs, the outlook for sequential improvement in Q4, and the technology behind a recent patent.

Answer

CCO Wade Seaburg addressed the trucking question, projecting a significant revenue impact in the first half of the next year, with pilot programs ramping in Q3 and Q4. CEO Denis Phares explained that the company is managing tariff impacts through better inventory pricing, passing on costs, and leveraging domestic assembly. Phares also noted that Q4 improvement depends on the trucking market's recovery and expanded pilots, and detailed that the new patent relates to preparing the feedstock for solid-state batteries using a dry electrode process.

George Gianarikas inquired about the commercialization progress of Dragonfly's dry electrode manufacturing technology, the company's cash position post-capital raise, and the rationale behind the Q2 adjusted EBITDA guidance not showing sequential improvement despite projected revenue growth.

Answer

Denis Phares, an executive at Dragonfly Energy, stated that while dry electrode development is ongoing, the company has prioritized resources towards near-term revenue opportunities to accelerate its path to profitability. Regarding the balance sheet, Phares confirmed the recent capital raise provides sufficient cash to reach profitability, with some funds used to pay down accounts payable. The Q2 EBITDA guidance reflects continued investments in new product development and accounts for the potential impact of evolving trade tariffs.

George Gianarikas of Canaccord Genuity inquired about Dragonfly Energy's target for achieving adjusted EBITDA profitability by Q4, including contingency plans, progress in the dry manufacturing business, and the impact of potential tariffs on financial guidance.

Answer

CEO Denis Phares confirmed the goal is for the entire fourth quarter to be adjusted EBITDA positive, driven by a strong pipeline in trucking and RV markets that makes contingency plans unnecessary. Regarding dry manufacturing, Phares explained a strategic pivot to supplying anode and cathode 'electro tapes' to cell manufacturing partners, rather than producing full cells in-house. He also stated that potential tariff impacts are fully baked into projections and are less significant for Dragonfly due to a high proportion of non-tariffable domestic costs like labor and overhead.

George Gianarikas from Canaccord Genuity Group Inc. inquired about Dragonfly's dry electrode battery technology, asking for a comparison to competitors like Tesla and an update on securing non-dilutive capital for its planned 0.5 gigawatt-hour production facility.

Answer

Denis Phares, an executive, explained that Dragonfly's powder coating dry electrode process is designed for superior scalability compared to the extrusion method used by competitors, which significantly lowers manufacturing costs. Regarding financing, Phares confirmed the company is establishing a Canadian subsidiary to raise capital for the facility and is in advanced negotiations with Canadian provinces.

George Gianarikas asked if the Magnetics segment's strong current-quarter margins are a reliable proxy for the future 10,000-ton facility and questioned the company's execution capacity for the extensive build-out required by the new DoD and Apple contracts.

Answer

CFO Ryan Corbett clarified that while current magnetics earnings are strong, they are not a perfect proxy for future finished magnet production but are likely sustainable for several quarters. He noted the 10x facility has a guaranteed minimum EBITDA from the DoD with significant upside. CEO James Litinsky and COO Michael Rosenthal affirmed their confidence in execution, citing their experienced team, established vendor relationships, and a DPASDX rating to accelerate progress.

George Gianarikas of Canaccord Genuity Group asked for an update on the expected four design wins, the tightening competitive set for imaging radar, the possibility of OEMs using multiple vendors, and the growth potential in non-automotive applications.

Answer

CEO Kobi Marenko explained that the competitive landscape for L3 imaging radar has narrowed to Arbe and one other competitor, making it unlikely for an OEM to select multiple vendors for the same platform due to extensive data training needs. Marenko also highlighted growing traction and faster revenue potential in non-automotive sectors like defense and smart infrastructure, which he described as a strategic leg for the company.

George Gianarikas asked for details on OEM negotiations, the geographic location of these OEMs, momentum in industrial applications, and the source of the guided revenue ramp for the second half of the year.

Answer

CEO Jacob Marenko clarified that Arbe sells chips to Tier 1s like Magna, who then sell the full radar system to OEMs. He stated they are in the final data collection stages with leading European OEMs and have a high chance of winning. Marenko confirmed the primary OEMs are in Europe, with China expected to ramp production a year earlier. For industrial applications, he explained the partnership with Sensrad, which handles customized software for lower-volume applications in smart cities and heavy machinery. He attributed the expected revenue ramp to a significant order from Sensrad, additional systems for OEM data collection, and the start of production ramp-up in China with HiRain in Q4.

George Gianarikas from Canaccord Genuity asked for details on the competitive dynamics within ongoing OEM discussions and for clarity on the expected trajectory for operating expenses over the next few years.

Answer

CEO Jacob Marenko explained that Arbe, through its Tier 1 partners, is typically shortlisted against one or two competitors in final OEM evaluations. He positioned Arbe's chipset as having a performance advantage over Continental (using NXP) and a significant price advantage over Valeo (using Mobileye). CFO Karine Pinto-Flomenboim projected that operating expenses would remain at a level consistent with the 2025 adjusted EBITDA guidance for the next couple of years, with an additional $5 million to $15 million in investments for next-generation technology over that period.

George Gianarikas asked about the potential impact of equipment supply constraints, particularly for natural gas turbines and battery cells, on the company's growth trajectory, and questioned Ameresco's strategy for expanding its European operations, including the possibility of acquisitions.

Answer

George Sakellaris, Chairman, CEO & President, acknowledged that supply for large transformers and gas turbines remains tight with long lead times, but noted that smaller engines have better availability and that the company has successfully managed these constraints without delaying near-term projects. Regarding Europe, Sakellaris outlined a dual strategy of aggressive organic growth, led by a new executive hire in key markets like Greece and Italy, combined with a continued search for opportunistic acquisitions. He also highlighted battery storage as a major emerging opportunity on the continent.

George Gianarikas inquired about the status of projects sensitive to potential changes in the Inflation Reduction Act (IRA) and how the current interest rate environment has influenced the company's strategy regarding owning assets versus focusing on project development.

Answer

CFO Mark Chiplock stated that the company has mitigated short-term IRA risk by safe-harboring Investment Tax Credits (ITCs) for 2025 RNG projects and approximately three-quarters of the assets in the development pipeline. CEO George Sakellaris explained that while the higher interest rate environment has led to a greater emphasis on the cash-flow-generative project business, the company is not slowing its asset development, which includes over 600 megawatts in the pipeline.

George Gianarikas of Canaccord Genuity asked about the potential impact of the change in the U.S. administration on Ameresco's Renewable Natural Gas (RNG) business, specifically regarding biofuel mandates and measures to insulate against RIN price volatility.

Answer

CEO George Sakellaris deferred to Mike Bakas, President of Renewable Fuels, who stated that the market remains strong. Bakas noted significant investment in the industry by major oil companies, tax incentives benefiting red states, and the importance of the Farm Bill. He also explained that a potential drop in gasoline prices could increase the cellulosic waiver credit, creating a more robust price ceiling for RNG, suggesting the business is well-positioned.

George Gianarikas of Canaccord Genuity asked about the key differences and challenges in scaling silicon photonics for LiDAR compared to the telecom industry's known difficulties.

Answer

Mina Rezk, Co-Founder, President, and CTO, explained that the primary difference is the interface: LiDAR uses free space optics while telecom uses fiber, requiring signal cleanup. However, he noted the core silicon photonics platform, including coherent detection, is fundamentally similar to telecom. The main divergence is in the laser modulation, which is chirped for distance and velocity in LiDAR versus being modulated for data transmission in telecom. Rezk emphasized that Aeva leverages the same proven manufacturing processes from partners like Tower Semiconductor.

George Gianarikas questioned Aeva's momentum with other passenger OEMs beyond the recent LOI and asked for the source of the increased revenue growth guidance of 80% to 100%.

Answer

CEO Soroush Dardashti confirmed ongoing engagements with other commercial vehicle and passenger OEMs, including for ADAS programs, with some RFQs nearing decisions. He also noted the Daimler Truck program remains on track. CFO Saurabh Sinha clarified that the upgraded revenue guidance is driven by strong product revenue momentum in both industrial and automotive markets, as reflected in the record Q1 product revenue. Sinha explicitly stated the guidance does not yet factor in the new strategic collaboration.

Asked about the deployment cadence for the growing Supernova backlog for the rest of the year and into 2026, and requested an update on the ABL acquisition and its momentum in Germany.

Answer

The CEO explained that the company's total backlog increased by nearly €6 million, driven by AC sales and fast charging. The focus is on converting this backlog in Q3 and growing the fast charging backlog further. Regarding the ABL acquisition, the integration is complete with significant cost reductions. The focus is now on growth, particularly in the recovering German market, by investing in the sales team. Cross-selling of ABL products into other European markets is already generating over a million euros per quarter.

George Gianarikas of Canaccord Genuity Group Inc. asked about the progress of the ABL integration, the potential for further industry consolidation, and any new commercial traction for the Quasar 2 bidirectional charger beyond the existing Kia partnership.

Answer

Enric Asuncion, CEO, explained that cost synergies from the ABL integration are nearly complete and the focus has shifted to cross-selling, which is gaining traction and generating approximately €2 million per quarter. He stated that Wallbox is not actively pursuing further acquisitions, prioritizing its goal of reaching positive cash flow first. Regarding Quasar 2, Asuncion noted that while he could not name new partners, the product is being showcased in Europe and recent power grid issues in Spain have spurred new customer interest.

George Gianarikas asked about the likelihood of the anticipated firm order coming from a large tech company and inquired about the expected quarterly cash burn for the foreseeable future.

Answer

CEO John Hopkins confirmed a tech company order is highly possible, citing active discussions with Tier 1 AI firms needing near-term power. CFO Ramsey Hamady clarified the project structure would likely involve a developer as the direct customer, with a tech company as the power user via a PPA. Regarding cash burn, Hamady projected quarterly OpEx to remain around $40-$45 million, with potential for a slight increase for supply chain investments, until a major project contract significantly improves their cash position.

George Gianarikas of Canaccord Genuity inquired about potential bottlenecks in securing agreements with large data center companies and the specific conditions that enabled NuScale to recognize revenue in the fourth quarter.

Answer

President and CEO John Hopkins clarified that deal finalization is not hindered by bottlenecks but by the inherent complexity of coordinating with partners like ENTRA1, operators, and financiers. He noted the order for six additional modules reflects high confidence. CFO Robert Hamady explained that Q4 revenue was recognized based on two contract components: the delivery of services, such as technology licensing, and progress made on subcontracted EPC work.

George Gianarikas asked about potential further business rationalization, including selling parts of the business, to speed up the path to profitability. He also questioned the company's resource allocation strategy towards Europe.

Answer

CEO Andy Marsh stated there are currently no plans to sell any portions of the business. Regarding Europe, Marsh and executive Jose Crespo explained that Plug has been investing significantly in the region for 3-4 years, building out development facilities, sales operations, and a network of integrators, and that this is not a new focus but a long-term strategic investment.

George Gianarikas asked for CEO Andy Marsh's perspective on the current policy environments for hydrogen in both Washington D.C. and Europe.

Answer

CEO Andrew Marsh described the U.S. policy environment as evolving, noting historical bipartisan support and viewing the new administration as more business-oriented, which could be beneficial for hydrogen. In Europe, he pointed to strong, tangible support in regions like Spain and Germany, citing active projects with partners like Galp and Iberdrola as evidence of a robust market for the company's electrolyzer business.

George Gianarikas questioned how the changing U.S. regulatory landscape affects Plug Power's global strategy and requested details on the newly announced convertible debt financing.

Answer

CEO Andy Marsh expressed confidence in navigating any political climate, citing expected continued support for hydrogen and a clear path to close the DOE loan. He emphasized the company's strong international presence in Europe and Australia. CFO Paul Middleton detailed the $200 million convertible deal with Yorkville Capital, specifying a $2.90 conversion price, a 24-month term, a 6% interest rate, and a clause restricting the investor from shorting Plug stock.

George Gianarikas of Canaccord Genuity asked for Plug Power's perspective on the changing U.S. regulatory environment and its effect on global strategy, and requested details on the newly announced convertible debt deal.

Answer

CEO Andrew Marsh expressed confidence in navigating any political climate, highlighting expected support for hydrogen, a clear path for the DOE loan, and the company's global footprint, especially in Europe and Australia. CFO Paul Middleton detailed the $200 million convertible note: a 24-month term, 6% interest, a fixed conversion price of $2.90, and a restriction preventing the investor from shorting the stock.

George Gianarikas of Canaccord Genuity sought to understand the nature of the GAC production delay, asking how confident the company is that continued iteration will solve the problem without requiring additional capital expenditure. He also asked for any signals from the administration that the 2029 PFAS regulatory deadline might change.

Answer

CEO Robert Rasmus stated there is no "fatal flaw" in the GAC process and that the current challenges are related to process optimization and fine-tuning, not fundamental design issues that would require more CapEx. He confirmed the mechanical equipment works and has produced product, but not yet with the required consistency for commercial scale. Regarding regulations, Rasmus mentioned recent meetings with senior EPA officials, from which he concluded there is no expectation of a delay to the PFAS rules; in fact, he anticipates they may be enhanced.

George Gianarikas questioned the nature of the GAC production delay, asking if it was a matter of iterative engineering or if it required additional capital, probing for any risk of a 'fatal flaw'. He also asked for an update on the administration's commitment to the 2029 PFAS regulatory deadline.

Answer

CEO Robert Rasmus asserted there is 'absolutely not' a fatal flaw and that the issue is one of process optimization, not a fundamental design problem requiring more capital. He explained that the equipment works and has produced product, but now requires fine-tuning for continuous, efficient operation. Regarding regulations, Rasmus stated that after recent meetings with senior EPA officials, he sees no indication of delays to the PFAS rules and, in fact, expects potential enhancements.

Inquired about the nature of the GAC commissioning delay, asking if it's a problem that can be solved through process iteration or if it will require additional capital investment. Also asked for an update on the stability of the 2029 PFAS regulatory deadline.

Answer

Management is highly confident the GAC issue is a matter of process fine-tuning and optimization, not a fundamental design flaw that would require more capital. They reiterated that the system works but needs to achieve consistent, uninterrupted throughput. Regarding regulations, recent meetings with the EPA confirm the 2029 PFAS deadline is firm, with the administration looking to potentially enhance regulations further.

Inquired about the magnitude of GAC pricing differentials between water and non-water markets, the price difference between GAC and PAC, and how to model operating expenses for the upcoming year following recent reductions.

Answer

The CEO stated that GAC pricing in non-water markets is 20-40% higher, justifying their strategy to reserve some capacity. GAC pricing is a 'significant multiple' of PAC pricing. Regarding OpEx, further reductions in SG&A are expected, and a clearer picture will emerge once GAC production is at full scale.

George Gianarikas asked about the pricing differential for granular activated carbon (GAC) between water markets and other industrial applications, the price difference between GAC and PAC, and the expected trend for operating expenses in 2025.

Answer

Robert Rasmus, CEO and President, explained that while they could fully contract their GAC capacity in the water market, they are reserving some for other markets where pricing is 20-40% higher. He reiterated that GAC pricing is a significant multiple of PAC pricing. Regarding OpEx, Rasmus stated there is still room for improvement in both operating costs and SG&A, with cost-reduction actions already taken in Q1 2025.

George Gianarikas asked if Tesla envisions a multi-tiered pricing structure for unsupervised FSD versus supervised FSD. He also inquired about geographic expansion plans, specifically regarding a potential launch in India.

Answer

CFO Vaibhav Taneja and CEO Elon Musk indicated the current $99/month FSD price is likely too low for its future value, especially once users can fully disengage. Musk said they will gradually relax attention requirements, increasing its value. Regarding India, Executive Ashok Elluswamy noted that the current tariff structure, which makes a car 100% more expensive, is a significant hurdle the company is working to resolve before entering the market.

Inquired about the field performance of deployed products, the outlook for operating expenses, and the manufacturing strategy for the new energy-based product, specifically regarding partnerships.

Answer

Executives acknowledged that new tech deployments have issues, particularly with software and documentation, which are being improved. The OpEx run rate is expected to be slightly lower than the previous year, but with strategic reinvestments, no substantial cuts are planned. For the new product, the strategy is not IP licensing but for ESS to manufacture the core power block and partner with firms like Honeywell for the balance of system components.

George Gianarikas of Canaccord Genuity asked how the dramatic drop in lithium-ion battery prices has affected pricing discussions for ESS's long-duration storage solutions.

Answer

CEO Eric Dresselhuys acknowledged that lithium-ion pricing serves as a market benchmark. He explained that ESS competes on a levelized cost of storage (LCOS) basis, where its technology has a strong value proposition for specific use cases like long duration and safety. He affirmed that the company constantly monitors lithium prices to ensure its offering remains superior in its target segments.

George Gianarikas sought confirmation that upcoming commercial shipments for smart glasses were for one of two previously announced customers. He also asked about potential bottlenecks in scaling manufacturing from the recent site acceptance test to mass production.

Answer

CEO Raj Talluri confirmed purchase orders from both smart eyewear customers and expressed optimism for the market, driven by GenAI and optical improvements. Both Talluri and COO Ajay Marathe asserted there are no technological bottlenecks to scaling production. The current focus is on operational execution: ramping volume, improving yields and UPH, and optimizing tooling changeover times for different cell designs.

George Gianarikas questioned the potential to add more customers to the 2025 revenue pipeline, given the long design-in cycles for smartphones. He also asked if the same timeline constraints apply to securing additional IoT customers for 2025.

Answer

CEO Raj Talluri explained that timelines are dictated by stringent qualification processes, which can be lengthy for smartphones. However, he noted that some IoT markets may have less stringent testing requirements (e.g., fewer charge cycles), potentially allowing for a faster path to production. He emphasized that initial product launches are the most time-consuming, with subsequent models ramping faster.

George Gianarikas of Canaccord Genuity Group Inc. asked how recent customer discussions inform the company's gross margin targets for 2025 and 2026. He also inquired about discussions with EV OEMs, specifically regarding potential model years and the preferred business model.

Answer

CFO Farhan Ahmad stated that price points in recent IoT agreements validate the company's long-term model and are sufficient to support healthy gross margins at scale. Regarding EVs, CEO Raj Talluri noted it is a longer-term opportunity. Both he and the CFO confirmed that Enovix is leaning toward a capital-light licensing and royalty model for the automotive market to leverage its IP without heavy investment.

George Gianarikas asked about Aspen's long-term financial profile, including EBITDA and free cash flow margins, following the strategic shift to halt Plant 2 construction and utilize external manufacturing.

Answer

CFO Ricardo Rodriguez confirmed that long-term financial targets remain unchanged, with goals of 35%+ gross margins and over 20% EBITDA margins. He stated the external manufacturing strategy supports these goals, noting that initial new capacity for 2026 will be in China and that margin targets are inclusive of any potential tariffs.

George Gianarikas requested an early outlook for 2025, asking for a conceptual bridge from 2024 to 2026 given the puts and takes of the GM ramp and potential changes to EV mandates under a new administration.

Answer

CFO Ricardo Rodriguez noted it was too early to provide specific 2025 guidance but stated the direction is "up and to the right," with an expectation that OEMs would need to significantly increase their EV mix under current regulations. He promised a firmer view before year-end. CEO Donald Young added that policy changes are complex and will take time to implement, suggesting major shifts won't be immediate in 2025.

George Gianarikas asked for more detail on the performance of the out-of-band management business, including the cause of weakness in the December quarter and its outlook. He also requested an update on the automotive relationship with Togg and whether it has led to discussions with other OEMs.

Answer

CEO Saleel Awsare stated that the out-of-band business is expected to grow from Q2 to Q3. He attributed the prior quarter's weakness to a single government-related customer. Regarding automotive, he confirmed the relationship with Togg is strong, with a new product being supplied for an upcoming vehicle, and noted ongoing work with a European truck manufacturer.

George Gianarikas of Canaccord Genuity requested details on the new automotive engagement with a German OEM, including potential selling prices and margins. He also asked about the company's M&A philosophy regarding financial accretion and strategic fit.

Answer

CEO Saleel Awsare described the new automotive deal as a purchase order for software and services with a German truck OEM for a new infotainment platform, highlighting it as a key greenfield win for customer diversification. CFO Jeremy Whitaker stated that the company's M&A strategy focuses on deals that are immediately accretive or have a very short path to accretion. Awsare added that strategically, they look for acquisitions within their key verticals of smart cities, enterprise, and automotive.

George Gianarikas of Canaccord Genuity inquired about the timeline for achieving the stated sub-$1 billion revenue breakeven point, given the current market environment. He also asked about recent trends in design-wins and design-ins and whether the company's financial situation has affected customer interest.

Answer

Executive Chairman Tom Werner stated that cost reduction programs are ahead of schedule and will lower the breakeven point, with a second efficiency review underway. CFO Neill Reynolds added that growing power device revenue will help achieve this goal. Werner reported strong quarterly metrics of $1.475 billion in design-ins and $795 million in design-wins, asserting that Wolfspeed maintains full transparency and alignment with its key customers.

George Gianarikas from Canaccord Genuity inquired about the specific operational milestones Wolfspeed must achieve to qualify for CHIPS Act funding tranches and the company's confidence in meeting them.

Answer

CEO Gregg Lowe expressed a 'very solid line of sight' to hitting the near-term milestones for the first tranche. CFO Neill Reynolds elaborated that the first tranche represents 20-25% of the total grant and is tied to financial milestones, including raising equity and refinancing convertibles, as well as operational progress. He confirmed they have a solid plan to meet all requirements.

Gianarikas requested a breakdown of the company's liquidity plan for the remainder of the year and inquired about the commercial interest and strategic potential of their new initiative to sell battery packs on the merchant market.

Answer

The company's liquidity plan relies on immediate cost savings from layoffs, continued inventory reduction, collecting receivables, and receiving funds from EPA programs. Regarding batteries, they have received significant interest from potential buyers and will begin sales in 2025, positioning themselves as a strategic technology partner for larger companies that do not wish to vertically integrate.

The analyst requested insight into the expected cadence of vehicle deliveries for the remainder of the year and asked for an update on the commercial truck market opportunity, specifically regarding the relationship with Amazon.

Answer

The company does not have perfect visibility but expects the delivery cadence to pick up in the second half of the year and into 2025 as $1.5 billion in EPA funding becomes available for orders. Regarding the truck market, it has significant potential but is less mature than the school bus market. Amazon's recent EV truck activity with another party is viewed as positive for the industry, and Lion's goal is to build relationships with large fleets as the market develops.