John DeCree

John DeCree asked about the base mass customer in Macau, specifically if property visitation levels are comparable and what strategies are being employed to stimulate higher spend from this segment.

Answer

Rob Goldstein, Chairman and CEO, and Grant Chum, CEO and President of Sands China, confirmed strong property visitation across Sands China, slightly exceeding 2019 levels in 2025, but noted lower spend per visitation. They highlighted efforts to leverage assets like retail malls and entertainment calendars, push event calendars, and introduce new non-gaming loyalty programs, acknowledging that base mass gaming growth lags premium segments.

John DeCree asked for an update on the performance of the retail mall portfolio in Macau, particularly on the luxury side. His follow-up question was about the sluggish recovery in visitation from Mainland China outside of Guangdong province and the opportunities to improve it.

Answer

Grant Chum, President & CEO of Sands China, reported that retail tenant sales saw a good recovery in Q2, growing about 10% year-over-year, with signs of improvement even in the relatively weaker luxury segment. Regarding visitation, he acknowledged the lag from non-Guangdong provinces but noted that wealthier coastal cities are recovering well. He cited ongoing destination marketing, improved transportation, and new high-quality hotel inventory as factors that will help drive overnight visitation from deeper within Mainland China.

John DeCree asked about the impact of social media backlash on Las Vegas pricing and whether Wynn has experienced pushback, despite catering to the high-end market. He also inquired if Wynn Las Vegas expects an uplift from broader city visitation recovery, especially with the convention calendar picking up.

Answer

CEO Craig Billings stated that Wynn has not seen pushback on pricing, emphasizing their focus on delivering high perceived value to their premium customers rather than just cost. He confirmed that aspects of Wynn's business, such as hotel room rates and mass gaming, would benefit from increased city visitation, while high-end gaming is driven by different factors.

John Decree of CBRE Group, Inc. asked about on-property spend from customers during the softer midweek periods in Las Vegas. He also inquired about Wynn's interest in new development markets now that Thailand appears to be on hold.

Answer

CEO Craig Billings confirmed that on-property spend from midweek customers has been fine, as expected from clientele paying premium rates. COO Brian Gullbrants added that accelerating luxury retail sales support this view. On new markets, Billings stated the company's priority is the UAE project and developing its existing land banks in the UAE, Las Vegas, and Boston, rather than pursuing new jurisdictions.

John DeCree asked about Wynn's interest in Japan if bidding for integrated resorts reopens, and inquired about any risk of construction cost inflation for projects in the UAE or Macau.

Answer

CEO Craig Billings stated that while Wynn always evaluates gateway cities like those in Japan, there are structural challenges with licensure there, and the company would only proceed if the setup was right. Regarding costs, he noted the opposite of inflation risk, explaining the UAE project budget is largely locked in and that there are actually cost-saving opportunities on FF&E for other projects due to vendor competition.

John DeCree from CBRE Securities inquired about the drivers of strong Q4 gaming volumes in Las Vegas, specifically whether the strength in slots was event-driven or broad-based, and asked about key development milestones for Wynn Al Marjan.

Answer

CEO Craig Billings clarified that the strong gaming performance in Las Vegas was due to broad-based strength across the entire quarter, not just the F1 event. For Wynn Al Marjan, he identified the 'topping off' of the structure towards the end of the year as a key upcoming milestone and mentioned plans for a future market trip for analysts to showcase the project's potential.

John DeCree asked for color on the strong performance at the Wynn Macau property on the peninsula and separately questioned the slight decline in Las Vegas table drop, asking if it was due to specific player activity.

Answer

CEO Craig Billings attributed Wynn Macau's success to strong team execution on physical and F&B enhancements over the past year. For Las Vegas, he explained that the slight table drop decline was not indicative of a broader trend but rather normal volatility, noting the company has deliberately diversified its casino business to dampen the impact of a few high-end players. He highlighted that underlying strength was visible in rising hotel revenue and slot handle.

John DeCree asked Eric Hession about the higher acquisition marketing spend in the digital segment during Q3, whether it was anticipated, and if it resulted in increased customer acquisition.

Answer

President of Caesars Sports and Online Eric Hession confirmed the increased spend was expected and strategically timed for football and iCasino acquisition, leading to more customers but also acting as a drag on flow-through in the quarter.

John DeCree asked for clarification on the higher acquisition marketing spend in the Digital segment during Q3.

Answer

Eric Hession, President of Caesars Sports and Online, confirmed that the increased spend was expected and strategically timed for customer acquisition heading into football season and for iCasino. He noted that while it impacted flow-through in the quarter, it is expected to yield long-term customer value.

John DeCree of CBRE Group inquired about the scope of future asset-light opportunities, such as management contracts and brand licensing. He also asked about the optimal group room mix for Las Vegas and the strategy for securing more large-scale events.

Answer

CEO Tom Reeg highlighted upcoming asset-light deals, including two Indian gaming management contracts and the Windsor transition, which he expects to contribute nearly $50 million in incremental, high-flow-through EBITDA. On group mix, Reeg stated the goal is to push beyond the current high-teens percentage toward 20% and beyond, noting the sales team is constantly pursuing large, recurring conferences like the State Farm event.

John DeCree asked for confirmation on the drivers behind the accelerating iCasino growth in April and inquired about the company's exposure to international travel in Las Vegas.

Answer

CEO Tom Reeg confirmed the 70% iCasino growth in April was Net Gaming Revenue (NGR). President of Caesars Sports Eric Hession attributed the growth to app enhancements, branded content, the acceleration of the Horseshoe app, and improved CRM capabilities leading to lower promotional costs. On international exposure, Reeg noted Caesars is primarily a domestic business. He specified that while visitation from Canada (3-4% of Las Vegas) has softened, the company has successfully backfilled that demand.

John DeCree asked for color on the Q4 decline in sports betting handle and inquired about the trend of increased high-limit slot play in Las Vegas.

Answer

President of Caesars Sports and Online Gaming Eric Hession attributed the handle decline to a strategic pullback in reinvestment for unprofitable low-end segments and sharp high-end customers, which should anniversary in Q2. President and COO Anthony Carano and CEO Tom Reeg noted that high-end slot growth is a multi-year trend driven by targeted events and significant capital investment in new high-limit rooms and better floor layouts.

John DeCree asked about the potential for Caesars to enter the Florida online gaming market, particularly if there have been any discussions with the tribe. He also inquired about the company's expected steady-state CapEx for maintenance and growth projects beyond 2025.

Answer

CEO Tom Reeg expressed that he is 'not optimistic' about Caesars or other non-Seminole entities entering Florida in the near term. CFO Bret Yunker provided guidance on steady-state capital expenditures, stating that a good number to use going forward is in the '$400 million area of maintenance CapEx' and '$200 million to $250 million of growth and other CapEx.'

John DeCree inquired about the progress of the backfill process at Red Rock Resorts following the Durango opening. He also asked for details on gaming business trends across the customer database (upper vs. lower tiers) and unrated play, and whether there have been any changes in the competitive promotional environment in Las Vegas.

Answer

Scott Kreeger, President, confirmed that Red Rock is on track with its three-year backfill target for Red Rock property post-Durango cannibalization. He noted meaningful increases in carded and uncarded slot win, with particular growth in VIP, regional, and national segments, while lower-worth segments remained stable. Kreeger also stated that the promotional environment in Las Vegas remains constant and rational.

John Decree asked for insights into the behavior of the over 100,000 new customers acquired since Durango's opening, questioning if they spend or visit differently than the existing customer base.

Answer

Scott Kreeger, President, stated that while the new customers behave similarly overall, the Durango property itself attracts a younger demographic and more Strip industry employees, leading to higher visitation in later dayparts. Frank and Lorenzo Fertitta added that the property benefits from its location in a high-growth area and sees a higher food and beverage spend per person.

John DeCree inquired about the decision to issue a special dividend in relation to the North Fork capital return versus utilizing the share buyback program, and asked for perspective on how the Las Vegas locals market is positioned to handle a potential recession compared to the Great Financial Crisis.

Answer

Executive Stephen Cootey explained the special dividend reflects a balanced capital allocation approach, prompted by the North Fork financing and the desire to reward long-term shareholders. He noted the company retains $309 million in its buyback program. Cootey also stated that unlike the 2008 crisis, the company has historically grown during typical recessions due to its value proposition and strong balance sheet.

John DeCree of CBRE inquired about the company's capacity to grow its group sales business, how it balances group versus casino customers, and the gaming behavior of group attendees.

Answer

Executive Scott Kreeger explained they have capacity to grow group business, with meeting space occupancy at 60-70%, and can also increase price. He noted their focus is on high-quality corporate groups and that room allocation prioritizes the 'most profitable customer,' often favoring a gaming guest due to their potential for repeat visitation.

John DeCree asked for an update on the promotional environment in the Las Vegas locals market and for clarification on the capital expenditure and disruption timing for the 2025 renovation projects.

Answer

Executive Lorenzo Fertitta described the promotional environment as stable, rational, and unchanged. Executive Stephen Cootey provided the project costs: $150M for Green Valley Ranch, $53M for Sunset Station, and $116M for Durango. He detailed that disruption would be concentrated from June-November at GVR, spread throughout the year at Sunset, and focused in the middle of the year at Durango.

John DeCree asked for color on how Q3 played out month-to-month, particularly in the Midwest and South regions. He also requested more details on the retail play trends in the Midwest and South, including whether it was driven by spend or customer volume, and potential underlying factors.

Answer

President and CEO Keith Smith noted that Q3 was fairly steady across the portfolio, with holiday timing causing some monthly shifts but stable core trends. He explained that retail play improvements have been ongoing for several quarters, with rated customers showing increases in both frequency and spend. CFO Josh Hirsberg added that the unrated business has been a significant driver of the retail segment's improvement.

John DeCree of CBRE asked for color on the quarter's performance cadence, specifically month-to-month trends in Q3, particularly for the Midwest and South regions, noting state GGR data showed strong July/August but mixed September. He also requested more detail on the improving retail play trends in the Midwest and South, including whether it's driven by year-over-year growth in spend, more customers, or other factors.

Answer

Keith Smith, President and CEO, stated that performance across the portfolio was fairly steady, with September's slight variation attributed to holiday timing shifts. Josh Hirsberg, CFO, clarified that "retail play" includes both the lower end of rated customers and unrated business. He noted that both segments have shown improving year-over-year trends, with increases in frequency and average daily theoretical (ADT) spend for rated customers, and the unrated business being a significant driver of the overall retail component's improvement.

John DeCree asked for more detail on the observed pickup in retail and unrated customer play and questioned if the FanDuel stake sale would alter Boyd's online gaming strategy.

Answer

EVP and CFO Josh Hirsberg attributed the retail strength to local and drive-in customers, which offset softness in destination business, but noted it's too early to call it a sustainable trend. CEO Keith Smith confirmed no change to their online strategy, which remains focused on a regional online casino approach with their Boyd Interactive platform, rather than pursuing a national presence.

John DeCree asked about investment plans for the online/iGaming business and what might trigger more spending, and also inquired about the business impact from F1 and the Super Bowl on the Las Vegas locals market.

Answer

President and CEO Keith Smith stated that their online platform is scalable and requires no significant new CapEx, with growth tied to state legalization. Regarding Las Vegas events, he noted F1 was less disruptive than the prior year and expects the Super Bowl to be a very strong weekend, though with hotel rates likely down year-over-year.

John DeCree asked for specifics on the financing plan for the Virginia project and inquired about non-gaming trends, particularly the balance between pricing and volume for F&B and hotel rooms in the Las Vegas Locals segment.

Answer

EVP and CFO Josh Hirsberg clarified that the Virginia project will be financed through cash flow and availability under the company's existing credit facility. President and CEO Keith Smith noted that in Las Vegas, the company saw higher hotel occupancy at a flattish average rate, with more cash rooms. For F&B, he said they are successfully adjusting prices to cover cost increases without significant consumer pushback.

Max Marsh, on behalf of John DeCree, asked if the core customer, who is visiting less but spending more, is at a higher risk in a recession or from increased promotional intensity.

Answer

Executive Josh Hirsberg strongly refuted this idea, emphasizing the core customer's stability. He noted this segment has not had a down quarter since the COVID recovery and was the most resilient customer group even during the 2008-2009 financial crisis. He explained the 'core' designation is for a reason, as they are the most consistent part of the business.

John Decree from CBRE Group asked about on-property spending trends for customers at The Strat and requested a broader outlook on the Laughlin market, including its primary growth drivers.

Answer

Chairman & CEO Blake Sartini highlighted positive momentum in The Strat's casino, driven by direct marketing efforts, and noted the consistent strength of the Top of the World restaurant. For Laughlin, he pointed to a successful strategy of more frequent, smaller events and the market's strong value proposition. President & CFO Charles Protell added that Laughlin's high level of rated play (70%) from a senior demographic should benefit from recent tax breaks, potentially increasing discretionary spending.

John DeCree from CBRE requested more color on the 9-to-18-month stabilization lifecycle for new taverns, including the path to profitability, and asked about the current status of the 7 recently added locations within that cycle.

Answer

Charles Protell, President and CFO, explained that ground-up taverns ramp faster (9-12 months) and deliver 25-30% ROI. Acquired taverns can take longer, and the recent acquisitions have required complete staff turnover. He noted that the company is now seeing the benefits of these changes in Q4 and is confident they will reach the company's standards, though it's taking longer than new builds.

John DeCree asked if the company would consider becoming more aggressive with its share repurchase program, potentially using leverage. He also inquired about the key levers for driving higher hotel room rates at the STRAT.

Answer

President & CFO Charles Protell stated the company will be aggressive in buying its stock but prefers sustained open-market repurchases over a tender offer, which he feels have been less effective in the gaming space. CEO Blake Sartini explained that driving STRAT room rates depends on citywide compression, especially midweek, and internal efforts to increase direct bookings, which also boosts casino revenue. He noted weekends are already strong, but midweek performance relies on citywide traffic.

Max Marsh, on behalf of John DeCree from CBRE Group, asked if the strong performance in Brazil is influencing the company's thinking on expanding to other regulated markets in Latin America and developing a replicable 'Flutter Edge' for the region.

Answer

CEO Peter Jackson responded that as a global business, Flutter constantly evaluates opportunities worldwide, including in Latin America. He noted that these potential markets are considered within their disciplined capital allocation framework, which balances organic investment, M&A, and share repurchases. He mentioned the team is always thinking about opportunities in Latin America and Europe.

John Decree from CBRE Group asked about the rationale for using GLPI funding for the Joliet project and whether Penn would consider monetizing its market access agreements.

Answer

CFO Felicia Hendrix explained that using GLPI's balance sheet was determined to be the most prudent financing option for the Joliet project after evaluating all alternatives, including cash and the revolver. CEO Jay Snowden stated that while the company would entertain a strategic opportunity to monetize its skin agreements, there was nothing to report on that front at this time.

John DeCree asked about the legislative progress for iGaming in Ohio and how PENN views its competitive position in the state, given its significant retail presence.

Answer

CEO Jay Snowden confirmed that PENN is 'very involved and engaged' in Ohio, although a bill has not yet been formally introduced. He expressed confidence that PENN now has a much more competitive iGaming product than in the past. He noted that the company's stance on legislation varies by state depending on its asset footprint, but the primary focus is always on maximizing shareholder value.

John Decree from CBRE Group asked for insights on the recent strength in regional gaming markets and questioned how VICI could better highlight the value of significant tenant CapEx in its properties, including potential co-investment opportunities.

Answer

President & COO John Payne expressed excitement about the regional gaming markets, attributing recent strength to operator creativity and capital deployment. CEO Edward Pitoniak noted that tenant CapEx in VICI's assets is a unique feature, possibly rivaled only by data centers, and that VICI is always open to contributing capital. Payne added that he expects opportunities to use VICI's capital to accelerate tenant growth in the future.

John DeCree asked about factors beyond interest rates that are influencing the quiet casino M&A environment and inquired about VICI's appetite for further international expansion, particularly through lending.

Answer

President & COO John Payne suggested that strong operator performance, especially in Las Vegas, makes selling assets unattractive. CEO Ed Pitoniak added that investing in regional gaming requires precision due to new supply. Executive Samantha Gallagher confirmed VICI would expand internationally and already has lending activity in the U.K. and Scotland, noting the internal team has mapped global jurisdictions for investment potential.

John DeCree of CBRE Securities asked for more detail on underwriting regional gaming assets amid market cannibalization, questioning if VICI considers factors like higher rent coverage or specific operator scale. He also inquired if non-gaming opportunities in the broader Las Vegas metro area, such as youth sports facilities, are a current focus.

Answer

President and COO John W. Payne explained that his operational background provides value in underwriting, allowing VICI to analyze an asset's consumer draw and vulnerability to new competition. CEO Edward Pitoniak added that an operator's competitive response function is critical. Regarding non-gaming in Las Vegas, Payne confirmed that VICI is studying such opportunities, as many local operators are entrepreneurs involved in various experiential assets.

John DeCree of CBRE Group asked for expectations on the performance and ramp-up of the new Sri Lanka property and inquired about how the Macau market might evolve following recent satellite casino closures.

Answer

Chairman and CEO Lawrence Ho Yau Lung expressed excitement for Sri Lanka, noting it's the first IR in South Asia and will require a ramp-up period to educate the market. President & Director Evan Winkler added that it will be a true IR experience unlike the antiquated local offerings. Regarding satellite closures, Ho sees it as an opportunity to consolidate business, strengthen the Altira property, and optimize gaming machine allocation by moving units to City of Dreams and Studio City.

John Decree from CBRE Group asked for insights on the expected performance and ramp-up of the new City of Dreams Sri Lanka, and also inquired about how the Macau market might evolve with recent satellite casino closures.

Answer

Chairman and CEO Lawrence Ho Yau Lung expressed excitement for Sri Lanka as the first IR in South Asia but noted it will require a ramp-up period. President & Director Evan Winkler added that it will be an 'education process' for the consumer base. Regarding satellite closures, Ho stated it's an opportunity for Melco's Altera property and allows for optimizing gaming machine allocation to their main integrated resorts.

John DeCree of CBRE inquired if the strong Golden Week visitation to Macau surpassed expectations and asked for insights into non-gaming spending trends, such as retail, to better gauge overall consumer health.

Answer

CEO Yau Ho confirmed visitation was strong, noting a market shift towards experiential consumption, which benefits their properties' attractions. Both Ho and Executive Evan Winkler commented that the retail environment has changed, with high-end luxury struggling market-wide, while Studio City's more affordable, mass-focused retail performs better. They added that F&B and general mall activity were strong during the holiday.

John DeCree questioned the drivers behind the guided decline in operating expenses for Q1 and Q2 2025, particularly with the upcoming reopening of the House of Dancing Water show, and asked if the lower OpEx level would be sustainable for the full year.

Answer

Executive Geoffrey Davis clarified that the guidance excludes the incremental expense from House of Dancing Water. Executive Evan Winkler explained that Q4 OpEx was elevated due to specific activations, sponsorships, and cost creep. He expressed confidence in reducing costs by being more surgical with reinvestment and noted a more rational competitive environment, suggesting the lower levels are achievable.

John DeCree asked for an update on the promotional environment in Macau and queried the company's appetite for share repurchases versus dividends.

Answer

CEO Lawrence Ho opined that the market is past 'peak promotional intensity' and is becoming more rational. President Evan Winkler clarified that while a substantial drop in promotions hasn't occurred, Melco is focused on reallocating spend effectively. Regarding capital allocation, Lawrence Ho and CFO Geoff Davis described the recent share buyback as 'opportunistic' due to a dislocated share price and stated that while deleveraging is the priority, opportunistic buybacks remain a possibility.

John DeCree from CBRE Group inquired about the drivers behind the recent GGR acceleration in the Macau market and asked for an update on MGM China's dividend policy and its implications for MGM Resorts.

Answer

Kenneth Feng, President of MGM China, attributed Macau's growth to strong premium mass demand and customers seeking new experiences, a trend he expects to continue. CFO Jonathan Halkyard and MGM China COO Hubert Wang clarified that the dividend policy is up to 50% of distributable net income, providing a substantial cash flow source for MGM Resorts, with the board also considering special dividends.

John DeCree asked about the future pace of share repurchases given upcoming CapEx for Japan and New York, and whether leverage might increase. He also inquired about business trends in Macau and any impact on the Chinese consumer.

Answer

CFO Jonathan Halkyard indicated the aggressive pace of buybacks will likely slow to preserve capital for development projects and that he would not be averse to leverage ticking up slightly. President & CEO of MGM China, Zhi Qi Wang, reported no material impact on Macau business, noting the market is resilient and that bookings for the upcoming Golden Week holiday were strong.

John DeCree asked about the drivers behind the record slot business in Las Vegas and the company's strategic approach to the Formula 1 race for the upcoming year.

Answer

Executive Jonathan Halkyard attributed the slot strength to a favorable casino mix, proficient product management, and capital investments in high-limit areas. Regarding F1, Executive William Hornbuckle noted that while rates were lower than the inaugural year, they were still double the norm. He expressed optimism that F1 organizers are reconsidering ticket pricing, which would benefit future events.

John DeCree of CBRE questioned MGM's capital management strategy, specifically asking if the company would consider using its REIT partners to finance major capital improvements or expansions. He also requested an update on the performance of the Marriott partnership.

Answer

Executive Jonathan Halkyard clarified that while using REIT partners like VICI and Blackstone is a financing option for major expansions, it would likely not be considered for property renovations. CEO William Hornbuckle reported the Marriott partnership is pacing 20% ahead of expectations, driving valuable mid-tier group business and achieving record room nights, with further upside expected from the W rebranding.

Asked for an update on the performance of the Chamonix casino floor, noting that state reports suggest strong slot growth but weaker table game performance, and inquired about expectations for the upcoming spring season.

Answer

Management acknowledged that table games have been a weak point and detailed numerous changes to address it, including new management, adding Baccarat, hiring more dealers, and improving food and beverage offerings by eliminating a money-losing buffet. They noted that despite these issues, they more than doubled market share to 27% without negatively impacting competitors, indicating significant market growth.

John DeCree asked about Chamonix's impact on the local Cripple Creek market, noting that competitors appear relatively unaffected, and questioned if there was increased promotional activity from rivals.

Answer

Executive Daniel Lee clarified that Full House has accounted for more than 100% of the market's growth, indicating that competitors as a group are down slightly. He explained the impact varies, with some nearby casinos benefiting from overflow while others are likely down. Executive Lewis Fanger added that growing the market without severely impacting others validates their thesis that the region was deeply underserved.

John DeCree asked about the key variables that could enable the company to reach the high end of its 2025 guidance range.

Answer

President and CEO of Opry Entertainment Group Jennifer Hutcheson identified potential upside in leisure demand, which has less visibility early in the year, as the primary driver. EVP and CFO Mark Fioravanti added that executing better than expected on managing construction disruption, aided by recent process enhancements, also represents a source of potential upside to the guidance.