Paul Golding

Paul Golding with Macquarie Capital inquired about the financing structure for MARA's potential 50% stake in the Starwood Digital Ventures joint venture, specifically how powered sites contribute, and the technical requirements and revenue implications of load balancing between Bitcoin mining and high-performance computing (HPC) at these sites.

Answer

Fred Thiel, Chairman and CEO of MARA Holdings, clarified that MARA's initial contribution to the joint venture for each site includes the asset itself and capitalization of its share of development costs for up to 50% ownership. He explained that load balancing, facilitated by advanced battery technology, allows Bitcoin mining to utilize excess power at preferential prices during periods of lower hyperscale utilization, with mining revenue primarily retained by MARA.

Paul Golding asked about the financing dynamics of MARA's potential 50% stake in the Starwood Digital Ventures joint venture, including the contribution of powered sites, and the technical requirements and benefits of load balancing between Bitcoin mining and high-performance computing (HPC) at these partnership sites.

Answer

Fred Thiel, Chairman and CEO of MARA Holdings, clarified that MARA's initial contribution to the JV would be the asset itself, along with capitalizing their share of development costs to retain up to 50% ownership. He explained that load balancing is achieved through advanced battery technology, allowing Bitcoin mining to utilize excess power at preferential prices during periods of lower HPC/inference demand, with mining revenue primarily retained by MARA.

Paul Golding asked about specific characteristics of the new Oklahoma site's power market, including reliability, pricing, and geographical advantages for HPC compute demand, and later inquired about IREN's software approach for cloud services, particularly for on-demand or smaller contracted deals versus bare metal.

Answer

Kent Draper, Chief Commercial Officer, highlighted Oklahoma's low latency, large site flexibility, jurisdictional diversity in Southwest Power Pool, attractive power costs, and appeal to hyperscalers. He and Daniel Roberts, Co-founder and Co-CEO, stated that most demand is for bare metal access from hyperscalers, allowing them to use their own software stacks, and IREN views software as a potentially commoditized area.

Paul Golding from Macquarie inquired about specific favorable characteristics of the new Oklahoma site's power market, such as reliability, pricing, and geographical advantages for HPC compute, and later asked about IREN's software approach for its cloud offerings, particularly for smaller or on-demand deals versus bare metal.

Answer

Kent Draper, CCO, highlighted Oklahoma's low latency, large site flexibility, jurisdictional diversity in Southwest Power Pool, attractive power costs, and high renewables penetration. He also noted that demand is primarily for bare metal access from hyperscalers, with software being less of a driver. Daniel Roberts, Co-founder and Co-CEO, confirmed internal software capability and ongoing negotiations for a multi-billion-dollar contract requiring a software solution, emphasizing that large tech companies prefer their own software stacks.

Paul Golding inquired about current pricing dynamics in the cloud marketplace, noting a potential rise in pricing per GPU hour. He also asked about inbound interest for cloud services at the Sweetwater site, particularly regarding its April 2026 energization, and if IREN would consider colocation there.

Answer

Daniel Roberts (Co-Founder and Co-CEO, IREN) confirmed strong demand and robust pricing, highlighting the attractive risk-return of the Microsoft deal's 35%+ levered ARRs. Kent Draper (Chief Commercial Officer, IREN) elaborated on strong demand for both air-cooled and liquid-cooled capacity, noting significant interest across all sites, including Sweetwater. He reiterated IREN's preference for GPU-as-a-service due to its attractive return profile but remains open to colocation if returns become compelling.

Paul Golding, Head of Research at Macquarie, inquired about current pricing dynamics in the AI cloud marketplace, noting potentially rising GPU-hour rates. He also asked about inbound interest for cloud services at the Sweetwater One site, which is nearing energization, and IREN's consideration of hosting at that location.

Answer

Co-Founder and Co-CEO Daniel Roberts and Chief Commercial Officer Kent Draper confirmed robust demand and strong pricing in the AI cloud market, emphasizing the attractive risk-return profile of current deals. Kent Draper detailed strong interest for both air-cooled and liquid-cooled GPU capacity across IREN's sites, including Sweetwater, and reiterated that GPU-as-a-service currently offers more attractive risk-adjusted returns compared to colocation.

Paul Golding inquired about the impact of site efficiency (PUE) differences on GPU rollout strategy and the rationale for adding backup generation to existing facilities. He also asked about the design changes for Horizon 1 to accommodate GB300s and the potential impact on financing and future-proofing for Rubin GPUs.

Answer

Chief Commercial Officer Kent Draper explained that GPU deployment is driven more by customer demand for rapid scaling and specific technologies (like liquid cooling) than by PUE variations. He noted the 1.4 PUE for Childress is a peak number, with the average expected to be around 1.2. Redundancy is being added across the fleet to enhance customer service. Draper clarified that Horizon 1's design was updated to support a wider range of rack densities, including lower densities, while still being capable of handling future high-density GPUs like Rubin.

Paul Golding of Macquarie Group Limited questioned the GPU supply chain availability, asking if capital was the main constraint, and queried if a scenario exists where unplugging more ASICs for GPUs would be logical.

Answer

Co-Founder and Co-CEO Daniel Roberts responded that while unplugging ASICs is possible, the businesses are not mutually exclusive because GPUs consume relatively little power for their cost. He noted a hypothetical $1 billion GPU purchase would displace less than 10% of their data center portfolio. On availability, he expressed confidence in being able to stand up new GPU clusters within 2-4 months.

Paul Golding asked how CleanSpark's counterparty selection strategy, particularly regarding Grade A credit quality tenants, aligns with its capital raising and cost of capital objectives, referencing a peer's recent high-yield capital raise. He also inquired about the implications of tenant-driven specifications for the Sandersville site on lease terms, specifically if prepayments or deposits are part of current discussions.

Answer

Gary Vecchiarelli, President and CFO, emphasized the importance of securing Grade A credit quality tenants for optimal cost of capital, noting that high-yield financing is a proven playbook they are open to, given improving terms. Matt Schultz, Chairman and CEO, stated it's too early to comment on prepayments but highlighted CleanSpark's aim for a significantly better, "win-win" deal directly with a hyperscaler, intending for the first announced lease to serve as a model for future agreements, ensuring delivery certainty without existential risk.

Paul Golding asked Gary Vecchiarelli if his reference to a peer's recent capital raise indicates CleanSpark's preferred counterparty type and how CleanSpark selects counterparties given capital raising and cost of capital considerations. He also asked Matt Schultz about the implications of tenant-driven specs for terms, specifically if prepayment or deposit discussions are involved.

Answer

Gary Vecchiarelli (President and CFO, CleanSpark) confirmed that a Grade A credit quality tenant is crucial for optimal cost of capital and financibility, noting that high-yield deals are a proven playbook. Matt Schultz (Chairman and CEO, CleanSpark) stated it's too early to comment on prepayments but emphasized aiming for a significantly better deal directly with a hyperscaler, setting a new standard for agreement quality without existential delivery risks.

Paul Golding asked how CleanSpark views its 13,000 Bitcoin treasury and recent financings in the context of building its powered land bank for HPC tenants or expanding its Bitcoin mining fleet. He also sought insight into the potential economic impact of the MoU with Submer, particularly regarding the breakdown of shell development versus MEP componentry.

Answer

President and CFO Gary Vecchiarelli reiterated CleanSpark's strategy for its Bitcoin stack: monetizing through yield strategies and borrowing opportunistically for accretive acquisitions, emphasizing its role as non-dilutive capital. Chairman and CEO Matt Schultz elaborated on the Submer partnership, noting that while Bitcoin mining infrastructure costs about $1 million per megawatt, AI/HPC infrastructure is closer to $10 million. He stated that building MEP solutions in a factory with Submer could increase speed to market by an order of magnitude and save 10-15% over traditional stick-built deployments, offering a unique competitive advantage.

Paul Golding asked about CleanSpark's strategy for its 13,000 Bitcoin treasury and recent financings to build a powered land bank for HPC or Bitcoin mining. He also sought color on the potential economic impact of the MOU with Submer, particularly regarding cost per megawatt and build-to-suit pricing.

Answer

Gary Vecchiarelli, President and CFO of CleanSpark, explained that the Bitcoin treasury is strategically used for yield strategies, opportunistic borrowing, and potential sales, emphasizing its role as non-dilutive capital despite tax implications. Matt Schultz, Chairman and CEO, elaborated on the Submer partnership, stating that factory-built MEP solutions could save 10-15% over traditional stick-built deployments and significantly enhance speed to market for AI/HPC facilities, noting the higher cost per megawatt for AI compared to Bitcoin mining.

Paul Golding of Macquarie Group inquired about CleanSpark's approach to hash rate pricing, especially with peers pivoting to AI, and asked if the company would consider proactively placing deposits on miners to capitalize on favorable pricing, even without secured power.

Answer

President and CEO Zachary Bradford stated that peers exiting the space create countercyclical buying opportunities, leading to a softening of miner prices. He confirmed that locking in favorable pricing on miners with long-term options, as they have done in the past, remains a key part of their strategy, depending on whether they are long on infrastructure or miners at a given time. CFO Gary Vecchiarelli added that increased competition among manufacturers also helps lower prices.

Paul Golding of Macquarie Capital asked for details on the incremental capacity beyond the 50 exahash goal, specifically the mix of liquid versus air cooling, and whether tariff or HPC demand dynamics are affecting infrastructure pricing.

Answer

CEO Zachary Bradford clarified that prepaid infrastructure for future growth is all related to immersion cooling, which the company sees as the best path forward for optionality. He stated that while they have some air-cooled rigs for tuck-in acquisitions, their ground-up builds are committed to immersion. He also noted that CleanSpark's advanced purchasing strategy gives it an 'advantageous place in line' for infrastructure, insulating it from near-term price pressure from the HPC sector.

Paul Golding from Macquarie Capital asked about the financing plans for solar and Battery Energy Storage Systems (BESS) redundancies, specifically if they are included in the $3.3 billion project finance or require incremental capital. He also inquired about the 2,000-acre potential campus expansion, clarifying if the existing roadmap is contingent on it and what Fermi plans to do if the expansion is secured.

Answer

CEO Toby Neugebauer explained that BESS specifications and preferred providers are being finalized with tenant one, and while an initial BESS ratio was assumed, tenant one's desire for increased intensity might require additional financing, which is manageable given the tenant's creditworthiness. He could not elaborate on solar due to confidentiality. CFO Miles Everson confirmed the BESS for the first gigawatt would be part of the project finance. Neugebauer stated the 2,000-acre expansion is under contract and will be recommended for board approval, noting it's not contingent on the existing roadmap. The expansion is driven by increased long-term power generation expectations, confidence in customer demand, and potential for less density with advanced cooling.

Paul Golding from Macquarie Capital questioned how counterparty deposits, escrow, and other backing influence the cost of capital for NC1 project financing, and sought an update on the development and marketing status of WhiteFiber's cross-data center cloud offering.

Answer

Erke Huang, CFO of Bit Digital, Inc., detailed that WhiteFiber is engaged in a debt raise for NC1, anticipating 75%-80% loan-to-cost financing with strong lender interest due to NC1's expansion potential, targeting 200-300 basis points over SOFR. Head of Revenue Ben Lampson stated the cross-data center cloud offering is still in R&D, not yet marketed, with a paper targeted for early next year.

Paul Golding inquired about how customer creditworthiness, deposits, and escrow arrangements are influencing the cost of capital for NC1 project financing. He also sought an update on the development and marketing of White Fiber's cross-data center cloud offering.

Answer

Erke Huang, CFO, discussed NC1 financing, noting strong initial interest from diverse lenders and anticipating 75-80% loan-to-cost with a future funding facility, targeting pricing 200-300 bps over SOFR. Benjamin Lamson, Head of Revenue, clarified that the cross-data center cloud offering is still in the R&D phase, not yet marketed, with a paper publication and technology launch targeted for early next year.

Paul Golding asked about the development of the cost of capital for NC1 project financing, specifically how counterparty creditworthiness, deposits, and escrow arrangements influence lender conversations. He also sought an update on the cross-data center cloud offering's evolution and marketing status.

Answer

Erke Huang, CFO of Bit Digital, Inc., detailed the financing process for NC1, noting that White Fiber has engaged JOL Capital Markets for a debt raise, with strong initial interest from a diverse lending universe including commercial real estate, insurance companies, private credit, and project finance banks. He highlighted NC1's unique in-place and expandable power as attractive to lenders. White Fiber anticipates financing in the range of 75% to 80% loan-to-cost, targeting a future funding facility. While too early for specific pricing, they expect it to be in line with recent deals (higher 200-300 bps over SOFR). Ben Lampson, Head of Revenue at WhiteFiber, stated that the cross-data center cloud offering is not currently being marketed, remaining in the R&D phase. White Fiber aims to publish a paper on the technology, targeting early next year for its publication and the technology to go live, having already narrowed down a site for its development.

Paul Golding of Macquarie inquired about specific infrastructure components at Corsicana, such as the waterline project, and whether their development is contingent on tenant negotiations. He also asked if Riot is still committed to a 'build-to-suit' model or if it is considering other structures like leasing raw power.

Answer

CEO Jason Les confirmed that foundational infrastructure like the substation and water line are being developed to provide maximum flexibility and de-risk project timelines, making the power offering more concrete. He reiterated that the 'build-to-suit' model is the preferred strategy to maximize asset value, but emphasized that Riot will not build a facility on speculation without a lease secured.

Paul Golding of Macquarie Group questioned the role of Riot's vertical integration with ESS Metron and E4A in delivering HPC projects and asked about the approach to securing long-lead time items like backup diesel generators. He also sought clarification on the 1-gigawatt power allocation at Corsicana.

Answer

CEO Jason Les described the vertical integration with ESS Metron and E4A as a key differentiator, providing expertise in switchgear manufacturing and electrical work, which is valuable in a constrained market. He noted E4A's experience with backup generation is also an asset. Regarding the Corsicana site, he clarified that while 400 MW is currently used for Bitcoin mining, the full 1 GW is potentially available for the most value-maximizing use, with 600 MW currently earmarked for AI/HPC development.

Paul Golding asked for clarification on the substation maintenance at Corsicana, the utilization of the ESS Metron subsidiary for third-party versus internal projects, and the specific drivers behind the timeline adjustment for the Kentucky expansion.

Answer

CEO Jason Les clarified the substation maintenance was a planned engineering event, not a demand response action. He noted ESS Metron primarily serves external clients, which provides Riot with supply chain visibility and flexibility. Les attributed the Kentucky delay to a strategic decision to take more time to maximize power capacity and achieve better economics, rather than rushing the build-out.

Paul Golding from Macquarie sought clarification on CapEx per megawatt for different data center builds and whether the Riverbend site expansion was driven by customer demand.

Answer

CEO Asher Genoot clarified that powered shell projects are around $2M/MW, while build-to-suit can be up to $6M/MW. He confirmed the expansion of the Riverbend campus to a potential gigawatt was driven by both their ability to secure the power and strong customer demand for larger, scalable data center campuses.

Paul Golding of Macquarie sought clarification on CapEx per megawatt figures and asked about the development strategy and customer demand driving the expansion of the Riverbend project.

Answer

CEO Asher Genoot clarified the cost structures: powered shell at ~$2M/MW, build-to-suit up to $6M/MW, and full colo at over $10M/MW. He explained the Riverbend project's scope was expanded to 1 gigawatt due to a combination of customer demand for larger campuses and Hut 8's ability to secure the necessary land and transmission capacity.

Paul Golding sought confirmation on the plan to exit the digital asset mining hosting business by year-end and asked about progress on securing long-lead-time equipment for the company's 2026 construction goals.

Answer

CEO Adam Sullivan confirmed that a legacy hosting contract will continue to roll off through 2025. COO Matt Brown assured that all equipment for 2025 is secured, and for 2026, they have strong visibility on cost and availability, with much of the equipment for the first half of the year already procured.

Paul Golding asked whether the upcoming delivery of new Block ASIC chips is intended for a fleet upgrade or for net new capacity. He also questioned how conversations with utilities are changing regarding demand response programs as sites are converted to non-interruptible HPC use.

Answer

CEO Adam Sullivan clarified that the new Block chips are designated for a 'refresh of existing fleet' to improve both exahash rate and overall efficiency. Regarding power contracts, he explained that for sites converting to HPC, the company will exit voluntary demand response programs in regulated markets and sign new, differently structured Power Purchase Agreements (PPAs) in deregulated markets.

Paul Golding from Macquarie Capital asked if the upcoming Block ASIC chips are for a fleet upgrade or net new capacity, and how conversations with utilities are changing regarding demand response programs as sites convert to HPC.

Answer

CEO Adam Sullivan clarified the new Block chips are for a fleet refresh aimed at increasing both exahash rate and efficiency. Regarding power contracts, he explained that for sites converting to HPC, the company will exit voluntary demand response programs in regulated markets and sign new, non-interruptible PPAs in deregulated markets, a process he described as well-established.

Paul Golding asked about Cipher's strategy for purchasing long-lead-time items for HPC build-outs in relation to tenant diligence. He also inquired about the nature of the relationship with SoftBank since its investment and its involvement in the HPC strategy.

Answer

CEO Tyler Page clarified that Cipher prioritizes ordering long-lead-time items like substations but does not build the rest of the data centers on spec due to varying tenant requirements. Regarding SoftBank, Page expressed hope they would become the tenant at Barber Lake but emphasized that the site is now open to competition to maximize shareholder value, as the timeliness of monetizing the asset is critical.

Paul Golding of Macquarie inquired about the potential for repurposing the Black Pearl site for HPC tenants sooner than planned and asked about the strategic rationale behind the planned mix of air-cooled and liquid-cooled capacity.

Answer

CEO Tyler Page stated that while construction at Black Pearl continues as a 300 MW Bitcoin mining facility, the company is flexible and open to "unsolicited reverse inquiry" for HPC hosting if it offers superior shareholder returns. Regarding cooling, Page explained that while air-cooling currently offers a better ROI for Bitcoin mining, the company is building liquid-cooling capacity at Black Pearl to gain credible operational experience, positioning Cipher for a future where direct-to-chip cooling becomes standard for GPUs.

Paul Golding of Macquarie Group asked about the economics of Mastercard's crypto partnerships, their growth trajectory, and their impact on relationships with traditional financial institutions as stablecoins gain traction.

Answer

CEO Michael Miebach described the digital asset space as nascent but promising, with current business driven by crypto on-ramps and off-ramps. He emphasized that while regulatory clarity is needed, Mastercard is positioned to provide trust, security, and interoperability for a future stablecoin ecosystem, similar to its role in traditional payments. He noted the economic model is still in its early stages of development.

Paul Golding of Macquarie Capital sought to clarify if "lower demand" in Australia was due to structural issues beyond weather and normalization. He also asked about potential levers, other than price and weather, to combat delayed decision-making in pass sales.

Answer

CEO Kirsten Lynch and CFO Angela Korch confirmed that the lower demand in Australia was driven by historically challenging weather conditions, which impacted both pre-season pass sales and in-season visitation, not structural market changes. Lynch acknowledged the goal is to secure pass commitments as early as possible and that the company annually assesses incentives to encourage this, with more to come for the next sales cycle.

Paul Golding from Macquarie Group Limited questioned how the company is adapting its operating strategy to persistent weather headwinds and inquired about the strategy for its high-yield, limited-capacity Discovery Cove attraction, particularly regarding pricing and international demand.

Answer

CEO Marc Swanson stated that while he expects weather to normalize long-term, the company is currently investing in more indoor attractions and amenities to mitigate weather impacts. For Discovery Cove, he highlighted its strong performance and the opportunity to use dynamic pricing to optimize yield. He also noted its appeal to international visitors, which could be a positive factor as tourism to Orlando grows.

Paul Golding sought to reconcile comments on managing operating days versus extending guest stays and asked how legacy Cedar Fair's successful festival strategy might influence capital plans for legacy Six Flags parks.

Answer

CFO Brian Witherow clarified that the strategy is to both eliminate low-value operating days and add days during peak demand periods like October, citing Cedar Point's successful expansion of its Halloween event. CEO Richard Zimmerman explained that the use of festivals and events will be tailored on a park-by-park basis to provide 'firepower in all 4 seasons' and drive season pass usage.

Paul Golding asked about the role of AI in Visa's business model, particularly with the Featurespace acquisition, and whether it's viewed more as a revenue driver, cost saver, or competitive moat.

Answer

CEO Ryan McInerney described AI as having a dual role: driving internal productivity across the company and serving as a key product differentiator. He cited the Featurespace acquisition for fraud prevention and new generative AI capabilities as examples of its strategic importance.

Paul Golding of Macquarie Capital requested more detail on the financial dynamics of the playoffs, such as per-game margins, and asked if the recent successful playoff runs are being factored into future operational and financial planning.

Answer

COO Jamaal Lesane noted that playoff runs boost ticket demand, fan acquisition, and corporate partnerships. CFO and Treasurer Victoria Mink provided specifics, stating that the 15 playoff games in the quarter generated $128 million in revenue (approx. $8.5 million per game) with about $4 million in average per-game direct operating expenses. She confirmed they expect the positive momentum to carry into fiscal 2025.

Paul Golding from Macquarie Capital asked for quantification of remaining dry dock expenses, noting the impression that much of this work was completed during the pause. He also inquired about the cadence of marketing spend for the rest of the year, particularly in relation to restarts in Australia and Asia.

Answer

CFO David Bernstein clarified that dry docks are a regular, ongoing requirement for ships every few years and that while 2022 was a high year, they will continue to be a recurring annual expense. CEO Josh Weinstein stated that the advertising spend cadence is expected to be fairly consistent quarter-over-quarter for the remainder of the year, though he noted plans can change.