American Public Education - Earnings Call - Q4 2018

Transcript

Speaker 0

Good afternoon. My name is Josh, and I will be your conference operator today. At this time, I would like to welcome everyone to APEI's Fourth Quarter and Full Year twenty eighteen Conference Call. All lines have been placed on mute to prevent any background noise. After the speakers' remarks, there will be a question and answer session.

Thank you. Chris Simonowski, Vice President of Investor Relations, please go ahead.

Speaker 1

Thank you, operator. Good evening and welcome to American Public Education's discussion of financial and operating results for the fourth quarter and full year twenty eighteen. Materials that accompany today's conference call are available in the Events and Presentations section of our website and are included as an exhibit to our current report on Form eight ks furnished with the SEC earlier today. Please note that statements made in this conference call and in the accompanying presentation materials regarding American Public Education or its subsidiaries that are not historical facts may be forward looking statements based on current expectations, assumptions, estimates and projections about American public education and the industry. These forward looking statements are subject to risks uncertainties that could cause actual future events or results to differ materially from such statements.

Forward looking statements can be identified by words such as anticipate, believe, seek, could, estimate, expect, intend, may, should, will and would. These forward looking statements include without limitation, statements regarding expected growth, expected registrations and enrollments, expected revenues, expected earnings and plans with respect to recent, current and future initiatives, investments and partnerships. Actual results could differ materially from those expressed or implied by these forward looking statements as a result of various factors, including the risk factors described in the Risk Factors section and elsewhere in the company's most recent annual report on Form 10 ks filed with the SEC and the company's other SEC filings. The company undertakes no obligation to update publicly any forward looking statements for any reason unless required to by law, even if new information becomes available or other events occur in the future. This evening, it's my pleasure to introduce Doctor.

Wallace Boston, our President and CEO, and Rick Sunderland, our Executive Vice President and Chief Financial Officer. Now I'll turn the call over to Doctor. Boston.

Speaker 2

Thanks, Chris. Starting with page two, I'll begin our call today by discussing APEI's recent operational successes, including robust growth of net course registrations by new students at APUS in the 2019. Our CFO, Rick Sunderland, then will discuss APEI's fourth quarter and full year financial results, as well as our outlook for the 2019. In the 2018, net course registrations by new students utilizing military tuition assistance or TA increased by 11% compared to the prior year period. Total net course registrations and net course registrations by new students at APUS each declined by approximately 1% year over year.

The strong increase in new students utilizing TA was offset by a four and a half percent decline in net course registrations by new students utilizing cash and other sources, an 8.3% decrease in net course registrations by new students utilizing veterans benefits or VA, as well as an 11.5% decrease in net course registrations by new students utilizing federal student aid or FSA. While net course registrations by students utilizing FSA declined, the first course pass and completion rate, a measure of student persistence, for APUS undergraduate students utilizing FSA increased by 8.4% for the three months ended 11/30/2018 compared to the same period last year. Tuition assistance or TA continues to be the largest pay type category at APUS, representing approximately 48% of new registrations in the 2018. We believe the strong increase in net course registrations by new students utilizing TA was due in part to extended student advising and admission hours and outreach effectiveness. For the three months ended 12/31/2018 or the fall term of 02/2018, total enrollment at Hondros College of Nursing or HCN was flat year over year and new student enrollment decreased 4% compared to the prior year period.

As previously discussed, HCN has implemented multiple changes to its curriculum, course retake policies, and admissions requirements in order to improve the overall first time NCLEX pass rates for graduates of its ADN program. We believe certain changes had an adverse impact on student enrollment, particularly in the January 2019 term. Beginning with the April 2019 term, HCN has moved an ADN interest exam requirement used for benchmarking the academic status of the incoming student class to a first course requirement. As HCN works to identify the appropriate balance of admissions requirements and attracting college ready students, there may continue to be a negative impact on their enrollments. We anticipate HCN revenues will be approximately 10% of APEI's consolidated revenues in the first quarter of twenty nineteen.

In addition to addressing these important matters, the management team at HCN continues to focus on its growth initiatives, including the successful launch of its new Medical Laboratory Technology or MLT program, the implementation of a new branding campaign and preparation for a new campus, which we expect to open in 2020. Because today's earnings call is being conducted after the last add drop date of the March start, API is able to provide actual net course registration results for APUS and HCN, not estimates in our first quarter twenty nineteen outlook. I'm very pleased to report that total net course registrations at APUS increased by 1% in the 2019 compared to the prior year period. The growth was driven by an 8% year over year increase in net course registrations by new students. This year over year growth in net course registrations is certainly welcome news.

The increase in net course registration by new students was largely driven by a double digit year over year increase in net course registrations by new active duty military students. We also observed a strengthening of net course registrations by new civilian students despite headwinds from the partial government shutdown in February. In fact, the year over year growth in net course registrations by new students was particularly strong in the months of January and March. This exciting result represents the first year over year quarterly increase in net course registrations by new students at APUS since the 2012. We believe the improvement in net course registrations at APUS is largely a result of recent upgrades to our enrollment management processes and improved marketing efficiency, as well as a result of offering expanded student services hours.

We believe it is also a result of our multiyear effort to stabilize enrollment at APUS through product and process enhancements implemented throughout the entire enterprise. As we discussed last quarter, our marketing team has been adjusting advertising spend in favor of our most productive channels with an even greater emphasis on military veteran and other most likely to persist communities. To become more productive, we have utilized new lead scoring methodologies, enhanced geographic recruiting focus, and deployed new lead nurturing strategies to increase engagement and enhance the prospective student's decision process. In addition, we have worked very hard to create a more seamless and personalized onboarding experience for students that we believe has led to improved conversion rates. This, combined with our multiyear effort to create a more engaging classroom experience and attract students with greater academic intent and college readiness has led to higher student persistence rates, especially among undergraduate students utilizing FSA.

I believe our first quarter outlook for a year over year increase in net course registrations at APUS validates our approach to utilize and leverage our unique core strengths without drastic changes to our business model. As we move forward, we will continue to embrace quality, affordability and flexibility as we serve military veteran and public service communities with distinction. Now I will turn the call over to our CFO, Rick Sunderland. Rick?

Speaker 3

Thank you, Wally. Going on to page three, financial results. American Public Education's fourth quarter twenty eighteen consolidated revenue decreased by 1% to $76,900,000 compared to $78,100,000 in the prior year period. The revenue decrease was due to a $1,100,000 or 1.6% revenue decrease in our API segment and a $100,000 or 0.8% decrease in revenue in our Hondros segment. Cost and expenses were $65,500,000 for each of the three months ended December 1837.

Consolidated instructional costs and services expense as a percentage of revenue increased to 37% of revenue compared to 36.7% in the prior year period. The increase in instructional costs and services expense as a percent of revenue is primarily driven by increased compensation costs in our Hondros segment, partially offset by a decrease in instructional materials costs in our API segment. Selling and promotional expense as a percentage of revenue decreased to 18.2% of revenue compared to 18.3% in the prior year period. Materials The decrease in selling and promotional expense was primarily the result of a decrease in employee compensation costs in our API segment, partially offset by an increase in advertising costs in our API and HNDRS segments. General and administrative expense as a percentage of revenue increased to 24.3% of revenue compared to 22.3% in the prior year period.

The increase in general and administrative expense is primarily related to increased compensation costs in our API and Hondros segments. Consolidated bad debt expense for the quarter was $1,300,000 or 1.7% of revenue compared to $1,100,000 or 1.4 percent of revenue in the prior year period. Depreciation and amortization expense as a percentage of revenue decreased to 5.6% of revenue from 5.9% in the prior year period. Our effective tax rate during the 2018 was approximately 26.5% compared to 14.3% in the prior year period. In the 2017, we recorded a $3,700,000 reduction in income tax expense related to the revaluation of net deferred tax liabilities resulting from the 2017 Tax Cuts and Jobs Act.

Our net income for the quarter was $9,100,000 or $0.55 per diluted share compared to net income of $8,400,000 or $0.51 per diluted share in the prior year period. Total cash and cash equivalents at December 3138 increased 18.4% to $212,100,000 compared to $179,200,000 as of December 3137. For the twelve months ended December 3138, total consolidated revenue was approximately $297,700,000 compared to $299,200,000 in the prior year period. Net income for the twelve months ended December 3138 was $25,600,000 or $1.54 per diluted share compared to net income of $21,100,000 or $1.29 per diluted share in the prior year period. As a reminder, during the full year 2018, we recorded the following: number one, approximately $1,700,000 in pretax expenses associated with the Voluntary Reduction in Force program announced in March as well as the applicable tax effect of the adjustment.

Number two, approximately $700,000 pretax in professional fees related to an acquisition that the company is no longer pursuing. And number three, approximately $1,000,000 pretax in costs related to the civil investigative demand from the Attorney General of Massachusetts, an inquiry that has since been resolved. Capital expenditures for the year were approximately $9,400,000 compared to $14,800,000 in the prior year period. Decline was primarily related to lower investments in program and software development costs at APUS. Prior program development costs included costs related to doctoral and competency based education or CBE programs.

Depreciation and amortization for the year was $17,500,000 compared to $18,800,000 in the prior year period. Going on to page four, first quarter twenty nineteen outlook. Our outlook for the 2019 is as follows. APUS net course registrations by new students increased approximately 8% year over year. Total net course registrations increased by approximately 1% compared to the prior year period.

For the three months ended March 3139, total student enrollment at Hondros declined 15% year over year and new student enrollment decreased by 30% year over year. As Wally noted earlier, enrollments at Hondros were adversely impacted by changes in admissions processes and course retake policies, among other factors. Hondros is taking action, which we believe will mitigate the future impact of these changes on enrollment by modifying certain requirements and focusing on growth initiatives. In the 2019, we expect a change in consolidated revenue of between 5% decrease and flat year over year. Net income for the 2019 is expected to be in the range of $0.29 to $0.34 per fully diluted share.

The change in operating margin indicated by our first quarter guidance is influenced by seasonality and impacted by two things. Number one, the guidance includes approximately $1,500,000 pretax in professional fees associated with an acquisition the company is currently evaluating. Second and importantly, the enrollment declines at Hondros have a significant impact on that unit's operating margin. We anticipate a year over year decline in the Hondros segment operating income of approximately $1,300,000 in the 2019 compared to the 2018. As we mentioned last quarter, APUS continues to adjust its outreach to prospective students by focusing on the military and on the areas of the civilian market where student quality and advertising costs are more compatible with APUS's low tuition model.

This includes a focus on certain degree programs, professional fields and geographic areas where we've enrolled students that are on average more likely to persist. The results appear to have been generally favorable, particularly given the double digit year over year increase in net course registrations by new active duty military students despite the headwinds from the partial government shutdown and the strengthening of net course registrations by new civilian students. In closing, we are pleased by the improved outlook for net course registrations at APUS as well as by the gains we have made with respect to student persistence, particularly among undergraduate students, civilian students utilizing federal student aid. Our team has put forth great effort over many years to improve our enrollment management processes, increase our marketing efficiency, and enhance the student learning experience to attract and retain more college ready students. API continues to generate strong free cash flow and it possesses a strong balance sheet with no long term debt.

Overall, I believe 2018 was a good year for API. Now we'd like to take questions from the audience. Operator, please open the line for questions.

Speaker 0

Your first question comes from Jeff Silber with BMO Capital Markets. Your line is open.

Speaker 4

Thanks so much. You alluded a couple of times to the government shutdown. I just was wondering if can get a little bit more detail on the impact you saw. And also were there any delays in any of the federal funding streams whether it was Title IV, Department of Defense tuition assistance or VA benefits? Thanks.

Speaker 2

Sure, Jeff. Fortunately, Congress had taken care of DOD, so DOD was funded and all of our main branches of the military had tuition assistance funding during the period. VA was also funded, although VA did have some computer problems that weren't related to the shutdown that we believe impacted particularly new VA students, less returning students. But if you were getting your paperwork processed for the first time, it was taking some time. But the Coast Guard is part of the Department of Homeland Security, and so the Coast Guard was impacted.

They shut down for the month of February. We didn't get our coast guard registrations for that month. And there were some other we have some relationships with other agencies like TSA, and they were unfunded as well during that time period. So while it wasn't significant, there was an impact in the month of February, but we did have two strong months in both January and March.

Speaker 3

Yeah, this is Rick. I'd like to add to that. So I don't know that we can quantify the impact, but this is where the business model is important. The shutdown occurred in February and with our monthly starts, I believe we were able to recover many of those students, particularly Coast Guard and TSA. So for the quarter, are looking at some pretty significant year over year growth in military tuition assistance.

Speaker 4

Okay. That's very helpful. In your discussion on Congress, I believe you mentioned a new campus potentially opening in 2020. I just was wondering if we can get a little bit more color on that.

Speaker 2

Yeah. We we we have approval, to open a new campus from a state, and I'm not sure we've given that state out yet. We'll we'll just we'll do it when it's the right time. But, you may recall when we had to switch from ACICS as our accrediting body, and last year in June, we got approved by ABHES, and they're our new primary accrediting body. Their rules and regulation say that you have to wait one year, to get permission to add a campus.

We've already informed Avhesh that when our year is up on June 11, we'll submit to them an application to open a new campus. We believe the build out of that as well as the preparation for signing up students will mean that that campus should open in the spring or roughly the 04/01/2020.

Speaker 4

Okay. Great. That's very helpful as well. And you gave some color on the expected change year over year for Hondros' operating loss. Can you give us some similar color what you're expecting for APES in terms of a year over year difference on operating income?

Speaker 2

Well, we're certainly not expecting it to go down, Jeff, but we don't have that quantified. We thought it was helpful in the first quarter because we know what the change in new student enrollments as well as returning students are to be able to give that for Hondros. But APUS from a new student perspective and even an overall returning student perspective is up in the first quarter. You go back to your

Speaker 3

modeling historically, I think you can see the variation across the quarters in terms of margin. Q1 does tend to be a lower margin quarter given the start of the tax year.

Speaker 4

All right, great. And one more numbers question, if you don't mind. What kind of tax rate should we be using or what's embedded in your guidance for first quarter EPS? And also what kind of tax rate, if you wanted to tax effect cost that you called out, what should we be using as well? Thanks.

Speaker 3

Right. So I'd say a good rate going forward is 26.5%. We're going to see a number slightly lower than that in the fourth quarter. We have a small benefit that we're going to take back through expense in that period.

Speaker 4

We should use that 26 I'm sorry, we should use that 26.5% also for the transaction costs to kind of tax effect that as well?

Speaker 3

Yes. I would use a slightly lower number than that in the first quarter as we are pull in a benefit, small benefit in the first quarter. But that's just the first quarter.

Speaker 4

It. I understand. Thank you for clarifying that. I appreciate it. Thanks.

Speaker 0

Sure. Your next question comes from Peter Appert with Piper Jaffray. Your line is open.

Speaker 5

Thanks. Good afternoon. So Wally, I'm wondering if given the inflection you've seen at APUS here in the current quarter or the changes you've made, if you've got your level of confidence basically in terms of the sustainability of positive new course registrations going forward?

Speaker 2

We feel pretty good. We've we've made a lot of changes. We've been very patient, you know, particularly in line with trying to make sure we were recruiting quality students in our FSA segment. And it it's taken us a lot of time to put processes in place that, Peter, that would make sure that we didn't throw out the baby with the bathwater, but that we were recruiting a student whose interest in college and interest in persisting was much higher than where we were before. And I think that along with the fact that we are continuing to emphasize our distinctive ability to meet the needs of our service members and our public service students is serving us well.

We feel pretty good about it other than later in the year if there's another shutdown, all bets are off. But right now, we're feeling pretty good.

Speaker 3

Yeah, I'd like so let me add to that. So we've been challenged in returning student numbers because of the declines in the new student numbers. So it's really important that we see that growth in the new student number in the first quarter because they're only a new student one time and then they become returning students. So if it's a leading indicator, I think that's a positive just to see that 8% increase in new students.

Speaker 5

Sure. How about, though, just the differential between TA students versus non TA students, right? The strength is specific if I've seen that heard you correctly, the strength is coming primarily from the TA segment. And I'm not sure how to interpret that in terms of, you know, does that suggest the programmatic offerings are not quite as compelling for the non TA students? How would you

Speaker 2

No, I think one of the things that we talked about last quarter, Peter, was that where we have strengths, we were going to shift our marketing spend to focus on that, so not just in our military programs but in some of our programs that focus on unique agencies like Intel and the TSA. At the same time, I talked about early on that we've seen some success in a geographic focus. So the civilian population in all areas of the country is not the same. And I think that whether it's a private college or a public college, they'll tell you that. And so somewhat naively, years ago when we got into the got approved for FSA, it was advertised equally for all across the board.

And we found out over time that quite frankly in certain areas, people weren't as motivated or as qualified to be college students. So as we've put processes in, we've also said, you know what? We don't we wanna advertise in this area because it meets the profile of the student that we find to be successful, and we just, you know, won't advertise in this area. We've also been very focused on adding STEM programs and technology programs and have quite a variety. And in the civilian segments that we're recruiting for as well as our military segments, are proving to be pretty popular.

Speaker 5

Okay. Great. Thank you. And then, Wally, the 1,500,000.0 professional fees, that sounds like a reasonably large number, which might imply a reasonably large transaction. Any color in terms of the kinds of things you're interested in looking at, probability that this goes forward?

Just anything you could help us with on that.

Speaker 2

Well, wish I could give you a high probability. We're certainly hopeful of that. But we've been pretty open about saying that we're looking for health care acquisitions. Nursing is our big priority and we'll look at other health care options as long as they are going to be able to meet gainful employment requirements, which are still in place. That's our big focus.

Speaker 3

Yeah. And the other focus would be for non Title IV head to employment skills gap type companies. So broadly speaking, it's in the area of health care and non Title IV, call it, treatment.

Speaker 5

But to be clear, not non Title IV exclusively. You're looking at

Speaker 2

Correct, correct. Mean, the nursing and health care would be Title IV. Correct.

Speaker 5

Got it. And presumably, would these be campus based? Or are you looking for online assets?

Speaker 2

Well, online assets would be extremely limited and also, you know, an interesting fold in with APUS because APUS does have online nursing programs, you know, online only. I I you know, so, you know, I I I guess they're out there, but there aren't that many of them. But we continue to want to expand Hondros. Mean, we've said originally when we acquired Hondros that the four original locations, now five, you've got a certain level of overhead and you can run a certain number of facilities with the same number of overhead. So we continue to look for campus expansions.

And I think we said we'd look to do them organically as well as fold in acquisitions.

Speaker 5

Right. Yeah. I think that given the presence that Hondros gives you, right, would it not make more sense just to drive expansion through that brand rather than buying another asset?

Speaker 2

Well, the issue is that with it's a creditor, you can only add one location a year, Peter, so that's pretty slow.

Speaker 4

Okay.

Speaker 5

Okay. Got it. All right, great. I think I'm covered. Thank you.

Speaker 2

Thank you. Thanks, Peter.

Speaker 0

Your next question comes from Corey Greendale with First Analysis. Your line is open.

Speaker 6

Hey, good afternoon. So first on the TA side, can you just I just kind of lost track of what is permissible and not permissible at this point in terms of marketing to active duty? Like do you have full access to bases at this point? Or is changing at all?

Speaker 2

I wish it was changing. We've been working on it since the new administration was in there, but we still have the same MOU from 2014 that only gives guaranteed access to institutions that actually teach on BASE. So we participate in quarterly office hours or whatever the base's commander has deemed everyone else should participate in, even though there's some bases where our students comprise a substantial majority of all the students using TA. So I think we've we've done this, you know, Corey, by by expanding office hours of of our teams both in advising and student services and admissions as as well as, you know, finding ways to through through the process legitimately to to have off campus events with our outreach people, and and it's been effective.

Speaker 6

Okay. And then, well, you mentioned specifically focusing or or not focusing on specific geographic areas. So I I had a question around that. There's some talk of changing laws at a state level to try to do some of the things that the prior administration was going to do at the federal level. So I was just interested if I don't know if you've ever kind of given this information if there's specific states where you're particularly concentrated or not concentrated.

I'm interested in California and New York since those are two of higher profile ones that's being discussed. And if something like that were to be put in place, how would you manage it?

Speaker 2

Well, I you know, we we you know, before Sarah came out, we were licensed in every state that said we had to be licensed there even though we were online only. So I think we've established good relationships with states even though many of those states we were able to roll back our licensure because of SARA. And, you know, we we are approved for California even though they're not they're the last state that's not a SARA state. So, you know, we we look at this, Corey, and, you know, we we hold our record out there that we, you know, try to operate above line in in every aspect, try to be transparent. You know, so far, it's it's held us in in good stead.

You know, when I talk about some states that we won't advertise in, it's really related to the college preparedness of the students in the income band that we think are attractive at our price point.

Speaker 3

Corey, it's Rick. So on the military side, the business model is strong in terms of our outreach, the relevance of our programs, our tuition at the TA reimbursement rate. One of the differences is the change in, let's call it, level of service with extended hours in the admissions group and other areas. I don't think we can equate a cause and effect, But I think the overall reengineering of the onboarding process combined with a redirection of some of our marketing dollars is producing good results in both the military and the nonmilitary. You asked about the military.

Speaker 6

Yes. Great. That helps. And then on Hondros, it sounds like some of the decline was or maybe all of the decline was because of some changes that you made and for good motivation, I think, to try to make sure people were prepared. You and I just wanna make sure I understood this.

If if you shift the timing of that exam to when people already to to a requirement for the first course, I mean, intuitively, one would think what will happen is your new students will go up and then your dropout rate will spike. But is is that not likely?

Speaker 2

No. So to just talk about that one exam, we are trying to improve our ADN first time NCLEX pass rates. And so one of the things that we looked at in benchmarking other schools was that in addition to having a HESI exam that we require some schools use the ACCUPLACER and believe that's much more indicative of the NCLEX pass rate. And so we put the ACCUPLACER in place for the January term as a required pre admission test. And what we found were that some of our prospective students went to other schools that don't have that requirement.

They're just test diverse. And so the idea was not to use the test to weed people out because, you know, I think our benchmark that we're pretty comfortable with is HESI, but just use that test as a benchmark for predicting success and seeing where we could get remedial assistance from instructional perspective in both math and English for students. And so with a resistance to take this test before admission, we're building it in and it's not going to be a penalty at all. It's really where are our students when they enter and we can ask them to take that test once they're admitted. And then as they go through the program, we can see how they progress.

Ideally, you know, we bring up the first first time NCLEX pass rates. We'll we'll know, based on those benchmarks of entering students with the ACCUPLACER as to how far we brought them along.

Speaker 6

Okay. And last one for me, then I'll turn it over. As through this whole period, you've continued to generate good free cash flow. So the first quick one is for Rick. Just can you give us any sense of what CapEx you expect in 2019?

And then for either of you, in terms of uses of free cash, I know you're working on acquisitions. Should we think of that as the primary use of cash or what's your capital allocation thinking in 2019?

Speaker 3

Right. So I think the dip we observed in CapEx in 'eighteen was just that. You'll see CapEx return to something more along the lines of 'seventeen. And in terms of capital allocation, we're seeing opportunities out there. I mentioned in my portion of the talk about professional fees earlier in 'eighteen related to a potential acquisition as well as fees we're incurring now in the first quarter of 'nineteen.

So I think that gives you some sense of our focus here in terms of capital deployment.

Speaker 6

All right. Thanks very much.

Speaker 0

Your next question comes from Greg Pendy with Sidoti. Your line is open.

Speaker 7

Hi guys. Just I guess along those lines as we think about the cash flow statement, can you just kind of remind us why the receivables spiked in 3Q and that continued in 4Q and when that might normalize I guess as we look out to 2019?

Speaker 3

Yeah. The answer is simple, delays in payment in both TA and VA. The largest piece of that is the Air Force. At the end of 'seventeen, due to the billing cycle and their payment cycle, literally there were no months outstanding. And at the end of the third quarter of 'eighteen and repeated at the end of the year 'eighteen, there were two months outstanding.

Now, from a collectability standpoint, those are good collectible dollars. The timing of the payment has shifted. So that's the majority of the increase. The remainder, if you really put TA with VA together, you get the vast majority of the increase. There's just been a slowdown in payments at the Veterans Administration.

Again, those are good collectible dollars. They're just being paid more slowly than we have historically experienced. When we talked about that in the third quarter ten Q, we talked about the delays and I think I was purposeful to not say that it was transitory or one time because we have no evidence that they're going to return to a prior payment schedule. Clearly, that would be our goal, but we don't control that. So it's in both the active duty and the veterans.

Speaker 7

So it's fair to say you'll hit a payment cycle at least at some point in 2019 to normalize a bit?

Speaker 3

Yeah, the point is it'll normalize, right? I don't have any expectation that it'll get worse and I don't have any expectation that it will get better. And if you have both those expectations, then it just normalizes.

Speaker 7

Okay. Thanks a lot.

Speaker 0

Your next question comes from Jeff Silber with BMO Capital Markets. Your line is open.

Speaker 4

Thanks so much. Sorry, just a quick follow-up. I think you had mentioned that your first quarter revenue guidance assumes about 10% of that being a contribution from Hondros. You know, that would imply a pretty sizable year over year decline. Obviously, we've seen some pressure on enrollments as well.

But from a revenue per student perspective, what should we be modeling in for Hondros?

Speaker 3

I don't know that we've ever talked about that.

Speaker 2

Yeah. That's a great question. You know, we we we don't look at it that way, Jeff, but let's see if we can

Speaker 3

We'll take that one offline, and why don't we still follow-up with you.

Speaker 4

Okay. That'll be really helpful. Thanks so much. Well, actually, let me I'm sorry, Keith. I'm still on.

Let me ask the question another way. The decline you're expecting year over year, I'm assuming that's mostly enrollment related.

Speaker 3

At Hondros?

Speaker 4

Yes.

Speaker 2

Yeah. And and, you know, the first quarter number for new students is gonna flow through the rest of the year in returning students. But the same time, they're hopeful that these changes they made to not quite be as extreme as the first quarter will help them bounce back in subsequent quarters. So they've given us a projection that we're shooting for, for the rest of the year.

Speaker 4

Okay. Thank you so much.

Speaker 2

There

Speaker 0

are no further questions at this time. I'll turn the call back to Chris Simonowski.

Speaker 1

Great, thank you. That will conclude our call for today. We wish to thank you for listening and for your interest in American Public Education. Have a great evening.