Badger Meter - Earnings Call - Q4 2019

Transcript

Speaker 0

Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for standing by, and welcome to the Fourth Quarter twenty nineteen Badger Meter Earnings Conference Call. At this time, all participants are in a listen only mode. After the speakers' presentation, there will be a question and answer session. Please be advised that today's conference is being recorded. It is now my pleasure to turn the conference over to Karen Bauer, Vice President of Investor Relations, Strategy and Treasurer.

Please go ahead.

Speaker 1

Good morning, everyone, and welcome to the Badger Meter fourth quarter twenty nineteen earnings conference call. On the call with me today are Ken Bockhorst, Chairman, President and Chief Executive Officer and Bob Rockledge, Chief Financial Officer. The earnings release and related slide presentation are available on our website. Quickly, I will cover the Safe Harbor, reminding you that any forward looking statements made during this call are subject to various risks and uncertainties, the most important of which are outlined in our press release and SEC filings. Finally, please note that on today's call, we will refer to certain non GAAP financial metrics.

Our press release and slides provide a reconciliation of the GAAP to non GAAP financial metrics used. With that, I'll turn the call over to Ken.

Speaker 2

Thanks, Karen, and thanks for joining our fourth quarter earnings call. We finished out the year with solid fourth quarter results, including an 8% increase in municipal water sales year over year, higher operating profit margins and record free cash flow. Recapping the full year, our top line saw some unevenness largely from the mid year innovation pause associated with new product introductions and the sizable Middle East project revenues in the prior year that did not repeat. However, we delivered very strong margins both at the gross and operating profit levels and tremendous cash flow improvement with 155% free cash flow conversion of net earnings for the full year. Bob will walk you through the details of the quarter and after that I'll come back and talk further about the year end review as well as our market outlook.

Speaker 3

Thanks Ken and good morning everyone. Slide four gives you a snapshot of the financial results for the quarter compared to adjusted results in the prior year. As a reminder, the prior year amounts have been adjusted to exclude executive retirement charges. A reconciliation of these amounts is included in the appendix to the slide deck. Starting with sales, total sales for the fourth quarter were $107,600,000 compared to $104,400,000 in the same period last year, an increase of 3% overall.

In municipal water, overall sales increased 8%. Sequentially, this quarter's domestic municipal water sales were about level with the 2019, again near record all time highs, in contrast to what we have historically seen in terms of a sequential decline from Q3 to Q4. The increase was driven by continued adoption of smart metering solutions, including the newly launched large diameter three and four inches E Series commercial meters and Orion LTE M cellular radio endpoints. In the quarter, mechanical meter sales were particularly strong as we ramped the Columbia, South Carolina smart meter award announced earlier in the year. Sales mix remained positive with increased sales of meters with radios as well as increased Beacon service revenue year over year.

Flow Instrumentation sales declined 11% year over year, the result of sluggish global industrial activity across the variety of end markets served with the majority of the decline in international markets. Operating profit as a percent of sales was 15.2%, an increase of 60 basis points from adjusted prior year results. Taking a closer look at the drivers, gross margin for the quarter was 38.2%. This was the sixth consecutive quarter where we have delivered in the upper half of what we would call our normalized range of 36% to 40%. Net price cost had a negligible impact.

And while margins did decline slightly year over year, with the typical quarter variation in meter mix and lower margin installation activities, the overall trend of radio adoption and higher Beacon service revenues benefited absolute margin levels overall. SEA expenses in the fourth quarter were $24,800,000 approximately level with the prior year's adjusted $24,900,000 due to solid cost control measures. SEA leverage improved to 23% of sales from an adjusted 23.8% last year. The income tax provision for the 2019 was 24.3%, slightly higher than the prior year's 23% adjusted rate. In summary, EPS was $0.42 for the 2019, an increase of 5% from the prior year's adjusted EPS of $0.40 Our working capital management actions resulted in another quarter of improved primary working capital as a percent of sales, which ended the year at 26.4%, down two thirty basis points from prior year end.

Our overall free cash flow in the quarter was modestly below the prior year's fourth quarter. But for the full year, cash flow increased by $21,500,000 or 42%, and we finished the year with a very robust free cash flow to net earnings conversion of 155%. With that, I'll turn the call

Speaker 2

back to Ken. Thanks, Bob. We've spent quite a bit of time talking with customers and with investors about innovation and the benefits of our smart solutions, including infrastructure free cellular radio offerings. Recently, our smart city alliance partner AT and T participated in a panel at the Consumer Electronics Show in January and highlighted Badger Meter's industry leading solutions when talking about the various benefits cities can realize while deploying smart applications. As you may remember, back in March, we announced we had won an important smart water deployment with Columbia, South Carolina that included not only our world class record all mechanical meters, but also our Orion LTE M cellular radio solution.

It was recently announced that this smart water project won a Smart 50 award, which honors the 50 most transformative global smart projects each year. Among the benefits, the award notes that the Badger Meter solution provides, and I quote, actionable intelligence to Columbia Water, which can result in faster leak detection, quicker data collection for compliance reporting and better revenue management. Most importantly, we have received outstanding feedback from the customer across the spectrum of metrics associated with this project. I encourage you to follow the link we provided here on Slide five and watch the video, which includes comments from Columbia's Mayor. Finally, turning to Slide six, as we embark on our one hundred and fifteenth year in business, I'm optimistic about our future.

Municipal spending trends are solid. Our focus on choice with comprehensive and tailorable solutions across our differentiated metering, communication and data analytics offerings is leading to healthy quote activity and a solid backlog. We have strong earnings and cash flow that we intend to continue to reinvest in the business both organically through R and D and via strategic tuck in acquisitions. I'm pleased with our organization's willingness to embrace sustainability and a continuous improvement culture mindset while remain customer focused. We saw measurable improvement across multiple operational customer facing and back office metrics in 2019 and I anticipate further improvements in the year ahead.

In closing, I want to

Speaker 4

say thank you to our employees across the globe for their relentless customer focus and efforts. With that operator, please open the line for questions.

Speaker 0

Your first question today comes from the line of Nathan Jones with Stifel. Your line is open.

Speaker 2

Good morning, everyone. Hi, Nathan.

Speaker 5

Maybe I could start off with the really good growth that you guys saw there in the municipal business in the fourth quarter. You had this innovation pause earlier in the year. Do you feel like this has returned to a more normalized level of customer demand here? Or do you feel like that there might have been some catch up from things that were deferred a little earlier in the year? Any color you can give us around that?

Speaker 2

Yes. So I would like to point out first as you and everyone else on the call knows things can tend to be uneven. But yes, we are back to a more normal level of growth. I would not characterize the fourth quarter as having a catch up from Q3 because the market has a tendency to push to the right because there's still the whole idea of installation and the other things that happen. So feeling good about where we are coming out of the year.

And I think, yes, I feel confident that we're back to normal.

Speaker 5

That sounds good. Then maybe looking out into 2020, I mean, I think municipal spending probably should be in the area the market should probably be in the area of low single digit growth, maybe mid single digit growth. You guys have some fairly easy comparisons, particularly with in the second quarter there and somewhat into the third quarter. Do you guys think that there should be any catch up in 2020? Do you think we go back to a more normalized level of demand?

You may be growing a couple of points above the market just based on the ease of those comparisons? Or just any color you can give us on how you're thinking about 2020?

Speaker 2

Yeah, Nathan. We still tend to think about the business more for the long term as it tends to be difficult from quarter to quarter, but we still feel very confident about the position that we've held that we can continue to grow in the mid to high single digits through the long term.

Speaker 5

Okay. Thanks very much. I'll get back in queue.

Speaker 4

Sure.

Speaker 0

Your next question comes from the line of Chip Moore of Canaccord. Your line is open.

Speaker 6

Morning. Hey, Ken, Bob and Karen.

Speaker 2

Hey, Chip. Hi. Morning.

Speaker 6

Wondering follow-up on that last question. Maybe you can parse municipal growth just a little bit more domestic versus international resi and C and I.

Speaker 2

So basically every product line. Okay. Yes, we still see similar to what I just said on the domestic side. I think from an international point of view, we continue to focus the team around identifying markets and opportunities. That's really not any different.

And on the commercial side, we feel strong about our offering coming out with the three and four inch ultrasonic, keeping in mind that commercial is still a pretty small part of the overall portfolio. And there is, of course, some cannibalization as it goes from mechanical to ultrasonic. But still feeling like we've been stating all along this mid to high single digit growth is a spot that we're comfortable with.

Speaker 6

Got it. No, was thinking more on the quarter if there was any year end business in Mexico or anything in Middle East or anything like that on municipal side?

Speaker 3

So specific to the quarter, if you think again overall utility up 8%, would tell you we saw similar growth rates in both resi and commercial as you look global. And our growth rates domestic versus international, realizing again international is a very small base. They were in that region too. So there wasn't differentiation either in channel or in geography.

Speaker 6

That's helpful. Thanks. And just a follow-up, I think you called out Mechanical very strong on Colombia ramping. Is there any way to quantify, I guess, municipal growth excluding Aurora or Colombia? Or back to sort of the catch up idea.

Is there any way to parse that at all?

Speaker 3

Yes. So we typically haven't been that granular. I would tell you obviously there is an element of that as we've spoke to in the commentary, but it's not overly significant to the quarter as a whole.

Speaker 6

Okay, got it. Thanks. And just one last 1, 80,000,000 plus free cash flow, very strong. Any changes to how you're thinking about bolt ons versus organic investment? And how should we think about free cash flow conversion this year, Bob?

Thanks.

Speaker 3

Yes. So maybe I'll speak to the free cash flow mechanics and then I'll let Ken speak about just M and A funnel and other aspects of that. A large part of both the record operating cash flows as well as the free cash flow conversion is a function of primary working capital. As we've talked about continuously throughout the year, a large part of our efforts in 2019 was what I've always coined and characterized as motherhood and apple pie, primarily on the accounts receivable and accounts payable side of the business. I think we continue to see the opportunity to improve that as we move forward.

We came out of the year at primary working capital as a percent of sales in that 26.4% range. Again, consistent with prior discussions, I'll never tell you a target in terms of where we hope to end 2020, but we still continue to see an opportunity to improve that number and a continuous improvement focus, I think, with inventory being a bit more of a focus for us as we roll through 2020. So I do continue to see primary working capital improvement as a tailwind for cash flow To think that we can sustain cash flow conversion at the 155% level with the, what I'll call, step change improvement made in 2019 probably isn't reasonable. But I still think you'd expect and we would shoot for and our goal would be free cash flow in excess of 100% of net earnings as a target with again primary working capital improvement initiatives being a tailwind to that.

Speaker 2

Yes, Chip. And on the second half of the question, our capital priorities remain the same. So we're going to continue to invest in R and D. We have some exciting projects again that we're working on this year because maintaining our innovator status is something that we feel is very important for us. M and A, the funnel continues to develop nicely on the tuck in acquisition side.

I would tell you that we are we have some interesting active discussions, but as I always say, don't mean that that don't take that to mean anything is imminent. And then thirdly, we've increased dividends for twenty seven consecutive years and we expect that we would be doing that again this year for a twenty eighth consecutive year. So the capital priorities really haven't changed. It's just a matter of continuing to get further down the funnel on execution.

Speaker 6

Got it. Appreciate it. Thanks very much.

Speaker 0

Your next question comes from the line of Andrew Buscaglia of Berenberg. Your line is open. Andrew, you may be on mute.

Speaker 7

Hey, Sorry about that.

Speaker 2

It's all right.

Speaker 3

On

Speaker 7

the product side, so it looks like you're on the cusp of a little product cycle here into 2020 with some of the new stuff you have coming out. Can you talk to the cadence of adoption? Do you think this is going to be really start to see this flow through in the first half, second half? And how does this compare to like past cycles you've had?

Speaker 2

Yes. So I think if I'm understanding the question correctly, think you're asking if we're expecting an innovation pause with our new products this year. So let's kind of walk through it. So the first one we released in the second half of year on the three inches and four inches, again, we're seeing great adoption, and that's projecting as we expected, so very pleased there. We're pretty far into the cycle on releasing our flow restriction valve meter, so that we'll see come out this year.

And again, not expecting to see dramatic pauses as we shift because it's just an extension of the product line. We're going to continue to implement our D Flow technology into our residential meters, which is more of an opportunity to continue to increase our or improve our cost position. And then we'll continue to build out the large ultrasonic line. So overall, I feel great about the projects that we're doing and not expecting them to have dramatic innovation pauses in the year.

Speaker 7

And then, presumably, you're the incumbent on some of these products as they're already out there existing. What guess what I gives you the confidence that Badger Meter will be the you will see adoption? And I guess I'm trying to get as where your customer conversations like that you feel confident that these will be, I guess, meaningful to your portfolio?

Speaker 2

Yes. So Andrew, we in March, we'll be celebrating our one hundred and fifteenth year in business, and many of our customers have been with us for decades through several cycles of the relationships that we have and the ability that we have to walk them through the technology curve and retain them has always been very successful. And I certainly don't see that changing as we go into the future. We have customer focus groups that every year we go through where we bring in customers and share with them our ideas for new products. And we really help that guide us on where we take our innovation.

So feeling very strong about our ability to implement and retain our customers.

Speaker 7

Okay. And maybe just one last one. You cited potential weakness going forward with gross margins weakness for related to brass costs. I would think as a proxy for brass, copper seems to be down a bit. What do you mean by that, that would be a headwind?

Speaker 3

Maybe let's just on the copper pricing again as a proxy for brass cost, let's talk about maybe what pricing looked like in the fourth quarter here comparatively. And then we can talk about kind of the blip, I think, the market has seen here in the very recent past. And if we tick that sequentially through 2019, we started the year with a more favorable copper price position on a year over year basis. That rate of influence moderated as the year progressed. And really, the fourth quarter, as I mentioned, had modest price cost dynamics in the margin, meaning $2.75 where we spent most of the fourth quarter was basically on par year over year.

Obviously, with copper now in that high $2.5 range, I think a lot of that is in large response to Asian markets, quite frankly, in terms of projected industrial and business demand and the uncertainty there surrounding health scares and other things. If I could predict where that was going, I probably wouldn't be on this phone call in this capacity. I'd be counting my money somewhere else. So I think we just look at it over the long term and say, we're coming off a year where we had favorable cost dynamics with copper input pricing largely being in the 2.7 or $5 range for a large part of the year. I think when we look forward, we just assume that to some regard that could be an unfavorable headwind.

And so we're just cautioning on that. Again, that's a single element of our margin equation. As we've talked about historically, there's a lot of positive dynamics to our margin profile, both at the gross margin level and at the operating margin level. But we'll continue to caution that metaphorical stairway to heaven that everybody just assumes with mix and average sell price and operational improvement and copper becomes this thing that continues to step up and that our normalized range of 36 to 40 all of a sudden becomes 38 to 42. We keep coming back to and I keep reminding folks, we still are operating in an oligopoly primarily in the North American market.

Rational, but still price focused competition comes along over time and beats that margin expansion down over time. And when you introduce into that the dynamic of a potential copper price change combined with again as we experienced a little bit here in the fourth quarter, some of our installation projects being on a relative basis lower margin installation revenues. We just continue to think, hey, we've got six quarters of operating in the higher end of that normalized range. That feels good. And we'd like to continue to be there over time, and copper is a big variable of that.

So I kind of meandered there through that, but wanted to give you a broader view toward operating and gross margins beyond just copper. And then the piece I didn't mention of course is the consistent point we've talked about is with average sell price being a big part of our top line, we continue to believe over time while still investing organically in the business, we can leverage our SEA spend that leads to then expanding OP and E to EBITDA margins over time.

Speaker 7

Got it. Okay. Thanks for the help.

Speaker 0

Your next question comes from the line of Richard Eastman of Baird. Your line is open.

Speaker 8

Good morning. Could you kind of speak to demand on the ultrasonic side of the business? Obviously, the new three inches and four inches kind of commercial meters to market. And I'm curious when you think about your ultrasonic sales across domestic or across residential as well as commercial, is the demand skewed directionally towards either the commercial market or the residential market? So

Speaker 2

I think we see a little bit faster adoption rate on the larger size commercial meters just because it's a little better with low flow and you have higher volume usage. Keeping in mind that's a much, much lower volume profile, but the rate of adoption on the larger sizes is faster.

Speaker 8

And would you just say across that ultrasonic product line, both residential and commercial? Mean is it 75% of the meter uptake is on the commercial side where the payback would arguably be quicker? Trying to get a sense of competitively kind of where the market is because obviously everybody's all focused on a couple of new entrants that have come in on the ultrasonic side. But my understanding is the competitors kind of lack a commercial product line in ultrasonic. And I'm just curious if that's where you've seen the faster uptick?

Speaker 3

So let me take a swing at this one here. So over time, Rick, we've talked about from a units perspective, our E Series product being roughly 15% of metering units and about 30% of metering sales dollars. When we look at that on a commercial versus residential basis, Remember, we've been selling the residential meter much, much longer. So we've got ten years of road hold on the residential side, and it's taken us ten years to get to 15% of units and 30% of radios. What Ken or of revenues, excuse me.

What Ken is saying is we think that adoption rate or that percentage of our units and dollars on the residential side would continue to expand, but at a slow tick versus whereby on the commercial side, which for us is really two inches to four inches, the three inches and four inches has only been out for six to eight months. So we haven't had nearly as long of a road to hoe there. But what we do see when you look at it on a relative basis is a greater share or a faster pace of adoption largely because of the economics of payback when you start talking about our low flow capabilities as well as the added enhancements of temperature and pressure, the use case becomes a bit easier. So we would expect the rate of adoption on the commercial side to be more rapid than maybe the slow slug that we've seen in residential over the last ten years.

Speaker 2

Yes. And maybe to just add to that, we do have cities where we have the mechanical meters in the residential spaces and they're buying the few commercials in the ultrasonic.

Speaker 8

No. And I would think again not to be really basic here, but the payback delivered by the larger sizes it shortens the payback, right? I mean is it any more complicated than that?

Speaker 3

No, which I think is why you see the adoption trend that we're Okay. Signaling

Speaker 8

And then just a question around the Industrial Flow business. Obviously, you didn't pull in some year end revenue probably budget flush type stuff that didn't materialize. But I'm curious as you look out to 2020 here, does the backlog how does the demand feel? And is it reasonable to assume some modest growth for Industrial Flow for 2020?

Speaker 2

Yes. So for the long term, Rick, we still haven't moved off our position of being able to grow the Flow Instrumentation business by focusing on the four main product lines that we've been after to be able to grow in the low single digits. Now the first three quarters weren't great, but Q4 was obviously, in bad English terms, more bad. We don't expect that to persist at that rate. We still think we have opportunities to get some gains in that business.

We feel like we've been repositioning when we did our org change in Europe last year, repositioning by markets. So we're feeling good like we can still get into that low single digit range.

Speaker 8

Okay. And I want to just if I can just flip back for a second to the muni business. Are we at a point is there any visibility where our international business can start to be a driver? I know it's small, but we made an investment there and it seems to be we've had some kind of choppy sales that grow and then fall off obviously as projects are completed. But at what point is it product offering?

Is it reach where international can start to see some more consistent growth?

Speaker 2

So can I just say yes? There's a couple of different things that we're working through. And one is we've been I think doing a much better job of aligning ourselves to the markets and identifying where the growth pieces are and really knowing where we need to be. Additionally, one of the other projects in our funnel that I didn't talk about before was designing our new static ultrasonic deflow technology meter for rest of world, which will be coming out with, certainly late in year, early next year. So I would not tell you it's imminent, but it is definitely part of our longer term view that we certainly have opportunities to grow internationally and be more consistent with it.

Speaker 8

Okay. All right. Just a really quick one for Bob. Any reason that the tax rate should change much year over year for 2020? No.

Okay. And last one for you, Bob. Lots of discussion around the gross margin leverage. I think we have a good sense of the puts and takes there. There is leverage in hate to do this to you, but Smiga.

If we again, if we just make the assumption that we might mid single digits, is it unreasonable to assume that the model and the plan here don't convert it to the EBIT line at maybe a 30% type conversion margin? Is there any reason not to assume that?

Speaker 3

Yes. So I think that obviously you're not going to pin me down to that number. But I think when we think about the long term, you're exactly right in terms of thinking through leverage and incremental margin at that level. I will tell you the one thing that we will not sacrifice and the thing we'll remain steadfast in is organically investing in the company to continue to innovate. That's a large reason why we sit in the seat that we do from a historic perspective.

And so I think there's opportunities over a multiyear horizon where that trend you discussed would not come true if we're, again, putting money into R and D for future benefit, which would then get you back to where you talked about over the long term. So, obviously, my my bias would be to knock you down a little bit from that incremental standpoint of saying 30%. But I don't think your logic is too far off, Rick.

Speaker 8

Okay. And again predicated on kind of mid single digit growth. So if growth were to slow in a given quarter or whatever, again, then our R and D spikes up as a percent. I mean, that's kind of what you're suggesting. Yes.

Yes, perfect. Okay. Thanks guys. Thanks for the time.

Speaker 2

Thanks, Rick.

Speaker 0

Your next question comes from the line of Hassan Doza with WAM. Your line is open.

Speaker 4

Hi, good morning. A couple of quick questions. First one on Bob, on working capital, what I've noticed on accounts payable is that beginning in 2019, your year over year accounts payable have grown and same trend in fourth quarter year over year. And I'm just kind of wondering, did you are you in the process of changing any payment terms or extending the accounts payable terms? Because it seems like there is a directional change in your accounts payable as they have kind of increased in your balance sheet year over year.

Speaker 3

Yes. So that's the motherhood and apple pie we talked about from an accounts payable standpoint. I think on the last quarterly call, we talked in-depth about some of the initiatives we've done in terms of Pareto ing our top 100 suppliers and pursuing what I'll call advantageous payment terms with them. So I think overall, if you looked at a DPO perspective, you'd see that extending over time, and that's largely a result of those initiatives. And then the flip side you didn't ask about it, but the flip side of 2019 performance is that on the accounts receivable side, while still being sensitive to customer relationships and needs and the sticky long term relationships we have, we're just becoming a bit more aggressive in our collection efforts.

And that's in large part what yielded the primary working capital percent as a percent of sales improvement and then created the tailwind for current year free cash flow and free cash flow conversion.

Speaker 4

Okay. The second question is on Flow Instrumentation. I remember back in 2015, 2016 when oil had the initial collapse. At that time, there was a prolonged six month impact on flow instrumentation sales to the oil and gas business. The weakness that you saw in the fourth quarter, what end market or customer segment was it?

Was it kind of oil and gas, which was historically hurt you back three, four years ago?

Speaker 2

Yes. So this is certainly more broad based in general across the myriad of product lines that we have in there. Oil and gas, while that's one of the four targets that we're working on, is not overly significant in the portfolio of that product line. And this downturn, just more broadly in general, is far different. I wasn't here in 2015, but I was working in the energy space.

That was a completely different animal than what we're seeing now when the price of oil went from $110 to $30 So just more broad based, just more of the general things that you're hearing from, I'm sure, all the other calls you've been on the last week or two.

Speaker 4

Okay. And Ken, one final one is what is your relationship now in terms of any sales agreement with Itron? The reason I ask is that Itron last year introduced their water meter at the AWWA Conference. They had a Investor Day, which they presented their water meter. And historically, Badger and Itron had a relationship in The U.

S. To sell water meters. So I just I'm wondering given now Itron's own water meter product available, is that relationship still ongoing? Or has what's the kind of the status in that one?

Speaker 2

Well, what what I'll tell you, Hassan, is that I generally would not will not speak particularly about relationships. But what I'll tell you about our product line is we feel very confident that we can compete with anybody. We have the best line of meters in the market. We have what we think is a very compelling case on our infrastructure free AMI cellular radios, our Beacon software. We can go toe to toe with anybody.

We're prepared to do that. We keep a healthy paranoia on every single competitor, whether they be big or a small entrant. And, we're very comfortable with whatever decisions other people make that we're going to be able to fight and continue to grow our business.

Speaker 4

Okay. Thanks everyone. Appreciate it.

Speaker 2

Sure.

Speaker 0

Your next question comes from the line of Jose Garza of Gabelli Management. Your line is open.

Speaker 3

Hey, good morning, guys.

Speaker 2

Hi, Jose.

Speaker 3

Wondering if you could remind us of kind of what the larger deliveries are in 2020, I guess, primarily Aurora, but just kind of remind us and then maybe just talk about the pipeline on kind of larger municipal side?

Speaker 2

Yes. So without getting into the specifics, the two primary projects that we've announced are Aurora, Colorado and Columbia, South Carolina. We certainly have other wins that we don't make the habit of making a lot of small and different announcements that we consider to be run rate. So those are the two we've made public. So those are the two that I talk about.

But just in the broad sense, we're seeing a tremendous amount of quote activity. We're seeing a lot of we're having a lot of healthy discussions with municipalities broadly about their ability and willingness to spend and to upgrade on AMI type projects. And I think we're positioned well to continue to win and drive that. So those are the two big ones, Aurora and Columbia.

Speaker 3

And just a reminder on those projects, the product piece of that is over three or four years, and the software as a service piece of that is over twenty years. So again, thinking through longer term phase here as you think about those projects.

Speaker 4

All right. Thanks guys. Appreciate it.

Speaker 2

You bet. Thank you.

Speaker 0

And at this time, there are no further questions in queue. I turn the call back to the presenters.

Speaker 1

Great. Well, thank you all for joining our call today. For your planning purposes, our first quarter twenty twenty call is tentatively scheduled for Wednesday, April 16, so mark your calendar for that. I will be around all day to answer any follow-up questions you have. Thanks.

Have a great day.

Speaker 0

Ladies and gentlemen, this concludes today's conference call. Thank you for your participation. You may now disconnect.