The Chemours Company - Q2 2023

Transcript

Operator (participant)

Good morning. My name is Jeannie, and I will be your conference operator today. At this time, I would like to welcome everyone to The Chemours Company second quarter earnings call. All lines have been placed on mute to prevent any background noise. After the speaker's remarks, there will be a question and answer session. If you would like to ask a question during this time, simply press star followed by the number one on your telephone keypad. If you would like to withdraw the question, again, press the star one. Thank you. Brandon Ontjes, Vice President of STNA and Investor Relations, you may begin your conference.

Brandon Ontjes (Head Strategy and IR)

Hi. Thanks, Jeannie. Good morning, everybody. Welcome to The Chemours Company's second quarter 2023 earnings Q&A conference call. I'm joined today by Mark Newman, President and Chief Executive Officer, and our recently appointed Senior Vice President and Chief Financial Officer, Jonathan Lock. Before we start, I'd like to remind you that comments made on this call, as well as in the supplemental information provided in our presentation and on our website, contain forward-looking statements that involve risks and uncertainties as described in Chemours' SEC filings. These forward-looking statements are not guarantees of future performance and are based on certain assumptions and expectations of future events that may not be realized. Actual results may differ may differ, and Chemours undertakes no duty to update any forward-looking statements as a result of future developments of new information.

During the course of this call, management will refer to certain non-GAAP financial measures that we believe are useful to investors evaluating the company's performance. A reconciliation of non-GAAP terms and adjustments are included in our release and at the end of our presentation. As a reminder, our prepared remarks, a full transcript, plus our earnings deck, have been posted to the investor relations section of our website, along our earnings release. This morning's call will focus purely on Q&A. With that, I'll turn the call over to our CEO, Mark Newman. Mark?

Mark Newman (CEO and Chemical Industry)

Thank you, Brandon, and thank you all for joining us this morning. In addition to reporting solid results in the second quarter, as you saw from our press release, we had an active and productive quarter. In TSS, we had another record, all-time record quarter, and as you'll know it, in the last six quarters, we've had five record quarters in TSS, which really speaks to the momentum and growth in this business. In APM, we had another double-digit growth quarter in our Performance Solutions business, and we launched The Mobility F.C. Membranes Company, which will be focused on Nafion membranes for the fuel cell requirements of the hydrogen economy.

In TT, we made the difficult decision to close our Kuan Yin facility, and I just want to take this moment to acknowledge the profound impact the closure will have on our dedicated and skilled colleagues who have been valuable members of our team in Taiwan. During this transition, consistent with the Chemours culture, we will remain fully committed to working with our local leaders to offer support and assistance in this difficult transition. Additionally, as you saw, we reached a comprehensive settlement of PFAS-related drinking water claims of a defined class of US public water systems. We also published our sixth sustainability report, which shows significant progress on both greenhouse gas and fluororganic compound emission reductions.

On capital allocation, we agreed to the sale of our Glycolic Acid business, which we expect to close this quarter, and we continue to return capital through dividend and stock repurchases to our shareholders. It was also a quarter marked by a number of leadership changes. On April 1, Denise Dignam became the President of our Titanium Technologies business. In early June, we had Jonathan Lock appointed to the CFO role, and obviously, Brandon Ontjes stepping up into the Investor Relations slot. Matt Abbott became our Chief Enterprise Transformation Officer at the same time. Earlier this week, we announced Joe Martinko as the President of the Thermal & Specialized Solutions business.

You know, when I look at all the changes, including Gerardo Familiar being named earlier this year behind Denise going into TT, you know, we've had a number of leadership changes, which really speaks to the strength of the talent on the Chemours bench and how well we're developing diverse and capable leaders of the future. You know, as I think of the quarter in total, I think it's a real demonstration of the Chemours brand of Courageous Chemistry. We did not miss a beat despite the leadership changes, and we got a lot done. You know, as we face a weaker second half this year, the team is full of energy and energized to drive continued great performance and to deliver value to our shareholders from our five strategic priorities. With that, Jeannie, I'll, I'll-- let's, go to Q&A.

Operator (participant)

At this time, I would like to remind everyone in order to ask a question, press star, then the 1 on your telephone keypad. We'll pause for just a moment to compile the Q&A roster. Your first question comes from the line of Arun Viswanathan from RBC Capital Markets. Your line is open. My apologies. One moment, please. Mr. Viswanathan, your name is-

Arun Viswanathan (Senior Equity Analyst)

Yes.

Operator (participant)

Your line is open.

Arun Viswanathan (Senior Equity Analyst)

Thanks. Could I just ask about the TiO2 plant closure? Is that plant maybe at the upper end of the cost curve? Maybe you can speak to the regional dynamics that led to that decision. Thanks.

Mark Newman (CEO and Chemical Industry)

Hi, everyone. Good morning, and thanks for your question. Yeah, as I said in my opening, this was a, a really difficult decision for us, given the impact on our Chemours colleagues. As we look at, you know, where, where that plant and other plants are on the cost curve, you know, it has been, since day one, designed to be more of a high-grade ore plant, than, you know, what's more traditional in, in our North American facilities, where we can use a broad spectrum of ore. Yes, the, you know, historically, great performance on uptime and, and, you know, safety metrics at that plant and productivity, but by design, a high-grade ore plant, which in, you know, with some of the cost escalation we've seen in recent years, you know, makes it more difficult.

It has historically been a swing facility within the circuit. You know, by, by taking this plant out, you know, we get really 2 benefits. We fully task, you know, the, the circuit. We move from a cost-- variable cost perspective to more low-grade ore usage. As you saw in, in our materials, you know, we expect a run rate fixed cost reduction of about $15 million next year.

Arun Viswanathan (Senior Equity Analyst)

Thanks for that, Mark. Then if I, if I could, as a follow-up, you know, you noted some challenges in the second half. Could you just elaborate on that? Is that the TiO2, you know, volume weakness and then maybe some, some weakness as well in the Advanced Materials part of, of APM or... Yeah, could you just flush that out? Thanks.

Mark Newman (CEO and Chemical Industry)

You know, so after really a very robust recovery post-COVID in 2020 and, you know, several quarters of very strong demand, when we planned this year, we expected a more gradual recovery. We know early in the year, others were thinking of, you know, a very robust, you know, recovery, especially in China, post-COVID. So we've always been of the mindset that we were gonna have a gradual recovery. I think as we were getting into the second half, our, our view is that, you know, you know, versus our planning, you know, we expect, you know, more modest demand recovery and maybe being pushed even into early 2024. So our expectations here sitting today is that in the second half, we would see volumes versus the first half, you know, flat to slightly up.

Obviously, seasonally, you know, Q3 and Q4, Q4 especially, tend to be weaker quarters. I would say we expect to see flat to slightly up, despite the fact that the second half, seasonally, is typically weaker.

Operator (participant)

Your next question comes from the line of Josh Spector with UBS. Your line is open.

James Cannon (Associate Director and Chemicals Equity Research)

Hey, guys. This is James Cannon on for Josh. Just hitting on the Taiwan plant again. Just wondering if that has any impact on your mix of contracts. As you continue to talk about changing and improving the quality of that business, is there anything that you're doing to think about changing the structures you have in place?

Mark Newman (CEO and Chemical Industry)

Yeah, no, no, no impact on our contracted business at all. The way we have looked at this, decision is, you know, can we serve our customer needs well, going forward from our North American plants? We've concluded we can. This is just a change in manufacturing, not a change in, in, in contracts. As you saw in the quarter, you know, you know, we pursued more opportunities, in both our, our flex and, and distribution channels, you know, which led to, you know, sequential growth, in volumes as well. You know, I'll, I'll maybe ask Jonathan to comment more here on this, in terms of how we see the dynamic here, you know, in the marketplace with respect to volumes.

Jonathan Lock (CFO)

Yeah, you know, obviously, as Mark said, in the second quarter, you could see the sequential growth in volumes of, you know, approximately 13%. While it's a good result sequentially coming out first quarter, it's not necessarily in line with, you know, what we would call a recovery. As we look out into the third and the fourth quarter, the second half, you know, that, that causes us to, to, to take the glide path down slightly, right? From, from the recovery we were expecting. All in all, no change, James, to your question, to kind of our approach to the market. You know, we've been talking about our ability to debottleneck our facilities, over the past couple of years.

Obviously, that was delayed, you know, inside of COVID, as a result of COVID. We're confident that, you know, through this transition, you know, we won't miss a beat in terms of our ability to serve our customers, both in the AP region and globally.

James Cannon (Associate Director and Chemicals Equity Research)

Got it. Just wanted to say congratulations to you, Jonathan. I have one other follow-up on the TiO2 business, and that's just if I think about volumes being relatively stable through the rest of the year, does your guidance anticipate any raw material benefit?

Mark Newman (CEO and Chemical Industry)

Clearly, you know, we're seeing some moderation in raw material costs. Some are more sticky than others. Obviously, you know, as we, as we retask our remaining plants in TT, that gives us an opportunity also to run at better utilization rates. In my view is, you know, we continue to work very hard, our procurement team, on input costs. Clearly, you know, energy costs have come down, or, as we have said earlier, this year has been moderating. Our ore mix is advantaged, you know, by the decision we've made, you know, with respect to Kuan Yin.

Operator (participant)

Your next question comes from the line of Duffy Fischer with Goldman Sachs. Your line is open.

Duffy Fischer (Equity Research Analyst)

Yeah. Good morning, guys. First question is just around the PFAS potential settlement. We've all seen that a number of state AGs have kind of stood up against the 3M settlement. Would you expect something similar for your settlement, where there would be people, you know, that prominent that would try to either alter it or, or kill it? If not, can yours go forward, do you think, with the judge, if the 3M doesn't?

Jonathan Lock (CFO)

Hey, hey, Duffy. You know, listen, you know, we saw the news of, you know, of the AG, opposition to the 3M settlement. You know, obviously, when you're dealing with something this complex and this far-reaching, you know, I think we would certainly expect, you know, folks to, to have an opinion, right, on how they think the out- what they think the outcome should be. Sitting here today, we can't predict whether or not similar objections would be raised against our settlement or not. You know, I, I think that what we do have confidence in is that, you know, the settlement that we'd entered-- we entered into, based on what the plaintiffs have asked, is, is a very good settlement, and I think that that opinion has been reinforced by, by the court, right?

That they, they believe that this is a good settlement. We're gonna continue to, to do what's asked of us by the court, certainly, and, you know, and, and work through the process, first through preliminary approval, and then ultimately, right, through final approval at the end.

Duffy Fischer (Equity Research Analyst)

Great. Thanks. If we could turn to refrigerants, can you just update us on your latest thinking with the step down, particularly in North America with HFO? What do you think that does to pull forward volumes the rest of this year? Can we still grow those volumes into next year with the step down? What are we seeing on supporting HFC pricing, as we're moving into that step down for HFC?

Mark Newman (CEO and Chemical Industry)

So, so Duffy, I'll, I'll ask Jonathan to comment further. Generally speaking, as we look at the second half, you know, we think we believe that the step down is beneficial to our second half. Clearly, remember that this business has, you know, seasonally weaker, especially going into Q4, so, you know, bear that in mind as well. Obviously, you know, there you know, we've had a very robust first half on OEM build rates. You know, the question is, does that continue in the second half? With weaker construction, you know, that's also a moderating impact. Listen, I think it's beneficial to TSS with the step down in terms of folks wanting to make sure they've utilized their, their quota.

Clearly, with end demand being more modest, you know, in a, in a, in a somewhat weaker economy in the second half, you know, that could have an offsetting impact. Net- net, you know, we've factored that into our guide.

Jonathan Lock (CFO)

Yeah. Hey, Duffy, I'll just build on that comment, you know, and just remind the folks on the call that the, you know, AIM step down coming is 30%, and the F-gas, step down coming in Europe is 20%. That's obviously a 2024, dynamic that we're gonna, you know, that we're gonna face into. You know, I know that Joe and his entire team are ready to serve the market to make sure that, you know, our OEM equipment customers get all of the product that they need to build out their fleet and to deliver that next generation of HFO hardware, and to make sure that our, you know, distribution partners, on the, on the refill side are, are, are well taken care of, you know, through that coming transition...

Just to be sure, you know, as we think about the guidance for the full, you know, the, the revised guidance for the full year, we haven't really baked in a material amount of pull forward, right? We're not envisioning a scenario sitting here today where you get a material amount of pull forward in either the third or the fourth quarter. Obviously, the things that are gonna drive that, right, through the, through the summer and into the fall are gonna be, you know, how hot is it? How much of an inventory depletion do we see down the channel? Of course, you know, what is the strength of the overall economy?

Does that give folks the confidence to say, "Hey, you know, I'm gonna pull ahead some volume into 2024." Listen, I mean, this business continues to perform, you know, very well. And, you know, obviously, with, with the coming 2024 step downs, as you all know, you know, we'll be ready to serve, you know, the refrigerant markets, that, that need the product.

Mark Newman (CEO and Chemical Industry)

Maybe just one last comment, Duffy. Obviously, the step down in quota drives further adoption of HFO technology. We're hard at work at our Corpus Christi site to drive the 40% expansion there, which we expect to have completed by the end of 2024.

Jonathan Lock (CFO)

Great. Thank you.

Operator (participant)

Your next question comes from the line of John McNulty from BMO. Your line is open.

John McNulty (MD and Chemicals Analyst)

Yeah, good morning. Thanks for taking my questions. In the TiO2 business, you seem to have some reasonable confidence that demand picks up. Is that coming from your customers? Like, I know you've got, you know, you've got these longer-term contracts with customers, so you maybe have a little bit better peek behind the curtain in terms of, in terms of what they're thinking their real demand pull is. Like, is it coming from that, or is it more just a, "Look, we can't run at this low of a level for that long. There's just not that much inventory to, to realistically destock?" I guess, how would you characterize your confidence on it?

Mark Newman (CEO and Chemical Industry)

Yeah. John, you know, I-- as I said earlier, you know, we had several quarters of very robust demand, before things started to soften last year in Q3, and really, much more so in Q4. Our view typically is a typical TiO2 cycle is somewhere between 12 and 18 months. Obviously, this one feels like it's, it's more towards 18 than 12. And as you've seen recently by some of the commentary by some of the US coating companies, I, I think it's been a lot more favorable than it has been previously. A- again, our view is, "Hey, this is taking a little longer." Yes, we, we continue to have a robust book of contracted business and, and really very active dialogue with, with, with key customers around the world, including, you know, the folks I've mentioned earlier here in the US.

Jonathan, I don't know if you have any additional color.

Jonathan Lock (CFO)

Yeah, no. I mean, the only thing I'd add to that is that, you know, I think coming into the year, we thought that we would find the bottom kind of here in the, you know, early in the first half, and the order book would speak to a turn in the second half. That hasn't been the experience that we've had here in the second quarter. I think we continue to look out at the order book and feel like we're, you know, at the bottom, but the inflection is not turning. We're at the inflection point, but it's not turning as hard.

As we think about what could happen, you know, next year in 2024, we're not here to give a 2024 guide, but certainly the, you know, the, the North American, Northern Hemisphere coating season in 2024 is, is what we're all playing for in terms of when we think the, the restock happens. It's just difficult for us to sit here today and think that, you know, ultimate end, end market demand has really declined in line with how we've seen the destock, right? you know, what we're, what we're trying to do right now in, in the very near term, as evidenced by what we're doing with our manufacturing circuit, is to reduce cost and, and improve our overall circuit op utilization so that we're well set up for 2024.

John McNulty (MD and Chemicals Analyst)

Got it. Okay. No, that's helpful. Then I, I guess, just on the TSS business, so kind of a look at, like, the cooling degree data and that type of thing, we'd actually say 2Q, despite all the, the press about the hottest day in the world and all that kind of stuff, it was actually kind of a light start to the air conditioning season. It looks like 3Q is really ramped up aggressively. Do you feel that pull? Like, is it something that... I mean, I hesitate to say it's spot, because that almost implies it's a commodity, but, like, do you feel that pull when it gets hotter? I guess, how should we think about how that plays out if, if the current trends continue throughout the rest of this year?

Mark Newman (CEO and Chemical Industry)

John, as, as you alluded to, you know, we had a relatively cool first part of the summer, which, which, which, you know, delayed the start of the season. Obviously, with, with the more recent warm weather, you know, we will see higher utilization rates or higher consumption of refrigerants, you know, as, as, as folks need to service their equipment to deal with the current weather patterns we're seeing, especially here in the U.S. and Europe. So our, our view has always been that any, any pull ahead related to the step down, you know, would come later in the year, dependent on, you know, how much quota folks had used throughout the year. A lot of the refrigerant. You know, what, what's really great about our, our TSS business-...

Is that a significant portion of it, you know, is a replacement or a service business. You know, there's not a lot of transparency, you know, in terms of where distributors are in terms of consumption of inventory. You know, yes, it creates demand when you have hot days like we're seeing recently, but there's also, you know, quite a bit of inventory in the system, you know, held by distributors. There's typically not a lot of line of sight as to where that inventory level is, and whether folks will need to consume more, you know, to use up their quota. You know, as we reflected on the second half, we believe there will be some pull ahead as it relates to the step down.

Folks will want to make sure they've used their quota, but a lot depends on utilization through, you know, through the end of the year, especially through the cooling season this summer, and we'll just kind of have to watch it as we go.

Mike Leithead (Director and Equity Research)

Got it. Appreciate the caller.

Operator (participant)

Your next question comes from the line of Matthew DeYoe of Bank of America. Your line is open.

Salvator Tiano (Equity Research Analyst)

Yes, hi, good morning. This is Salvator Tiano filling in for Matt. The first question I want to ask is a little bit longer term, but there's been a lot of press about submerging cooling for data centers and how this could benefit companies like Chemours. What are you seeing there, and how far are we from this actually being a decent sized business for, for your company?

Mark Newman (CEO and Chemical Industry)

Yeah. It is a great question. We continue to work very diligently on developing and commercializing immersion cooling. You know, we had talked about this several months ago in one of our, you know, investor updates on our Thermal & Specialized Solutions business. You know, as we look at the explosion in AI and, you know, the need for high-speed data and data centers, we're very excited about what this technology will offer. You know, we'll have more to say in the future in terms of an official announcement.

But, but, you know, I remain confident that immersion cooling present, another significant growth franchise, for Thermal & Specialized Solutions, and in a very direct way, will tie, you know, to, you know, the, the growth of AI, in the US especially, and around the world. More to come on that, but we remain confident that this is a technology that we can commercialize. Probably, you know, not, not in the immediate future, but certainly something that, you know, will, will be part of our planning as, as we look out, you know, between here and, and certainly the middle of the decade.

Salvator Tiano (Equity Research Analyst)

Okay, perfect. And, um, I also want to ask a little bit about, uh, um, uh, illegal refrigerant imports. There have been some articles and some mentions by the American HFC Coalition about the high amount of, uh, R-410B refrigerant coming to the US from China. And, uh, I, I don't believe it was an issue for your second quarter results, but is it something that you're concerned about, uh, um, in the second half of the year?

Jonathan Lock (CFO)

Yeah. Hey there, it's Jonathan. You know, as we think about illegal imports, you know, we learned a lot of lessons out of Europe, right? You know, as we were as we were launching, you know, HFO technology in Europe on the stationary side, you know, specifically, we learned a lot of lessons from the illegal imports that came across, you know, from Eastern Europe and Southern Europe and, you know, changed the quota dynamic in that market.

We took a lot of those learnings around, you know, inventory management, border control checks, and working with authorities, and layered that into our approach to, to, you know, the US market, and worked a lot with EPA, a number, Homeland Security, and a number of other agencies in order to make sure that as AIM was getting stood up, we had, you know, some of the right enforcement mechanisms in place, and we created some awareness right around the issue. Obviously, you know, we need to remain vigilant on illegal imports. It's not something we're ever gonna take our eyes off of. To your question, specifically about R-410B, you know, we wouldn't necessarily view that as an illegal import issue, but more of a composition of, of product issue.

You know, the, the importation of that being used to kind of skirt, to, to skirt other regulations around, you know, the import of R-410B. You know, our teams are all over this. You know, Joe and his entire team, you know, they work hand in hand with federal, state, and local authorities here in the U.S. to ensure that, you know, there isn't a, there isn't a problem going forward. We'll keep an eye on it, but for now, we remain confident that, you know, the law can be, you know, well enforced here in the U.S.

Operator (participant)

Your next question comes from the line of Lawrence Alexander with Jefferies. Your line is open.

Dan Rizwan (SVP and Equity Research Analyst)

Hi, this is Dan Rizwan for Lawrence. Given what you've done with the the T, TiO2 plant, are there other facilities you're taking a look at that might be higher cost, that might be, shut down?

Mark Newman (CEO and Chemical Industry)

... no, not at this time, and, obviously, our expectation would be, you know, all of our remaining facilities, utilize low-grade ores and a wide spectrum of ores, which, you know, it improves their cost competitiveness. so not at all.

Dan Rizwan (SVP and Equity Research Analyst)

Have you stated or what, what the utilization rate is now for, for TiO2, post the, the closing of this facility?

Mark Newman (CEO and Chemical Industry)

No, we haven't. We typically update our nameplate capacity in our 10-K disclosures once a year. The way I think you should think about this is, the immediate impact of the Kuan Yin closure will obviously reduce our nameplate capacity. We continue to work on debottlenecking of our remaining facilities such that I would, I would expect over time, the change in our nameplate capacity to be quite modest. The immediate impact, obviously, is both a fixed cost reduction and a better utilization of our circuit.

But again, part of our analysis in making this tough decision was looking ahead to customer demand, and, and being confident that, you know, with, with some of the work underway to debottleneck our three facilities here in North America, that we could serve our customers well.

Dan Rizwan (SVP and Equity Research Analyst)

Last question, if the coatings season next year are strong or stronger than expected, I guess you could easily flex up to meet any anticipated demand surge?

Mark Newman (CEO and Chemical Industry)

Yes, sir. Obviously, as Jonathan Lock said, you know, we, we really wanted to take advantage of the continued weak demand this to, to get our manufacturing footprint right in anticipation of a more robust 2024, so that, A, we can serve our customers well, and obviously, from a profitability perspective, you know, we would get our TiO2 business back into sort of the 20%-25% EBITDA range. You know, again, we're thinking ahead to 2024 and how we serve that market well.

Dan Rizwan (SVP and Equity Research Analyst)

Thank you very much.

Operator (participant)

Your next question comes from the line of Mike Leithead from Barclays. Your line is open.

Mike Leithead (Director and Equity Research)

Great. Thanks. Good morning, guys. First question on APM: Could you maybe drill down into what areas you're seeing the demand weakness in the second half? Then separately, could you just update us on how you're seeing demand, specifically develop for Nafion and your semicon PFA currently?

Mark Newman (CEO and Chemical Industry)

Yeah, Mike, that's a great question. Remember, we've always described 2023 as a transition year for APM. Well, what do we mean by that? We're really ramping up our ability our capacity in our performance solution space to serve both clean energy and advanced electronics markets. So, in terms of where we're seeing weakness, it's, it's in our Advanced Materials business. Think of that as, you know, either broad industrial or in some specific segments like land cables, which are tied to construction. You know, we're seeing some weakness there as well. I'd say, generally speaking, the weakness we're seeing is, is in our Advanced Materials business. On our Performance Solutions business, we remain sold out.

So what we're you're witnessing is our growth rate here this year is really capped by how much capacity we can liberate. As we look at the second half, we expect, you know, Advanced Materials to be weaker from a volume perspective. Obviously, there's only so much you can do in the second half to relieve capacity, and that's just the timing it takes to implement capital projects, or in some cases, to get permits to expand at some facilities. The team's really hard at work in doing everything possible to maximize throughput in our Performance Solutions area.

There's just practical limits in what we can achieve in the second half, while we're seeing, you know, a weakening of the Advanced Materials, which today is, is the larger, is the larger portion of, of the total revenue of that business. Jonathan, and if you have any additional color.

Jonathan Lock (CFO)

Yeah, no, the only other thing I'd add is that, you know, obviously, if you look at APM, like, as a business, regionally, our exposure to Asia Pacific is, is pretty high, right? It's the-- it's 35%-40% of the overall business. As we think about that and the kind of the, the lack of a strong recovery in China and, and, and whatever kind of spread that has to the rest of Asia, that's certainly impacting the business. The only other thing I'd remind folks on the, on the call of is that, you know, Q3 of 2022 is gonna be a, is gonna be a tough comp, right, for, for Q3, Q3 of 2023.

You know, as we look ahead, we, we do expect a, a drop off there on a year-over-year basis, in addition to something that's gonna happen, you know, sequentially in terms of, both top line and bottom line.

Mike Leithead (Director and Equity Research)

Great, that's super helpful. Then just second on TiO2, could you maybe talk about your pricing assumptions as we go into the second half? Second, I think you previously talked about getting the business back to about 20% EBITDA margins to exit the year. Where do you think the bar is now, just given all the moving pieces, we're seeing here?

Mark Newman (CEO and Chemical Industry)

Yeah, we, we, we don't provide pricing guidance on a forward-looking basis. As you saw in the recent quarter, you know, our price was down 1%, and, and so reflect. That reflects, you know, both regional and customer mix, that also reflects channel mix with, you know, with more volume, relatively speaking, going through flexing and distribution. Again, our, our view is the second half, you know, we've, we've guided that volume, we expect to be flat to slightly up. We're clearly working on rationalizing capacity, which will be beneficial starting in the second half, but really will, will show real benefit as we go into 2024.

Mike Leithead (Director and Equity Research)

Great. Thank you.

Operator (participant)

Your next question comes from the line of John Roberts with Credit Suisse. Your line is open.

John Roberts (MD)

Thank you. Two questions. First, a short one: Do you plan to do a debt offering to fund your share of the PFAS settlement? Then, the longer question is: How do you reoptimize the TiO2 network? Do you have some export-- You mentioned it's a swing plant, so do you have some exports into Europe that you can serve from North America now, and do you just drop your customers in Asia?

Jonathan Lock (CFO)

Hey, John, it's Jonathan here. On your question about the financing, you know, we're obviously always looking at, you know, different mechanisms to drive liquidity here. Obviously, we have the sale of the Glycolic Acid business, which we project will close at the end of the month. We're always looking at liquidity to make sure that our balance sheet is in order. Today, we feel good about the capital structure that we have to go forward with liquidity of the business. You know, we'll approach that opportunistically. Obviously, we have the 2025 term loan B, I think that's what you're referring to, kind of the two-term loans in front of us.

You know, we'll, we'll, we'll continue to take a look at that, and if there's an open window, maybe, maybe think about doing something there.

Mark Newman (CEO and Chemical Industry)

Then, John, on the, on the question with respect to our TiO2 facilities, no, we don't plan to drop, quote, unquote, "any customers." We, you know, we're very focused on very high levels of customer service, and today, actually, we leverage, you know, all of our plants to serve our customers' needs globally. Clearly, we'll have to readjust in terms of what plants are tasked with with, with specific customer requirements, but that's something the team's very capable and, and, and has done before. I don't expect any meaningful interruption here in terms of customer service or meeting customer requirements as a result of this decision.

John Roberts (MD)

Great. Thank you.

Operator (participant)

Your next question comes from the line of Jeffrey Zekauskas with JP Morgan. Your line is open.

Jeffrey Zekauskas (MD and Senior Equity Research Analyst)

Thanks very much. I've always thought that the capacity of the Taiwan plant was 160,000 tons. Is that right? You've talked about the cost savings from closing the plant. Is the plant making any money or is it losing money? You know, what's the trade-off there?

Mark Newman (CEO and Chemical Industry)

Yeah, Jeffrey, you've asked two questions that we probably wouldn't answer in the sense of we don't disclose individual plant capacities, and we certainly don't report out, other than at a segment level, you know, our, our, our profitability. As I mentioned, it, it is a higher cost plant in our fleet because of its use of high-grade ore, and therefore, you know, the benefits of the closure is to more fully test the remaining plants and to reduce our dependence on high-grade ore. I, I think those together will have, you know, a meaningful benefit. As we've disclosed, it's a $50 million run rate cost savings, again, which we would expect to start to see in, in a pro rata form in the second half here, but obviously on a run rate basis starting next year.

Mike Leithead (Director and Equity Research)

Is the $50 million a net cost savings? Is that net or there's an offset?

Jeffrey Zekauskas (MD and Senior Equity Research Analyst)

Yes, sir, that's a net cost savings.

Jonathan Lock (CFO)

Yeah, that's a net cost savings on the EBITDA, Jeff. Then, obviously, as we disclosed in our, in our press release and in our materials, there will be a $25 million cash impact here in 2023, and similar number in 2024 in order to effectuate those. Those are cash costs associated to things like severance.

John Roberts (MD)

Okay, for my, for my follow-up, imports of titanium dioxide into China, as of about August last year, fell off a cliff. That is, maybe imports into China were something like 15,000 tons a month, and they fell to, I don't know, 4,000 tons a month, and they've stayed low since that time. Is that something which affected your decision? That is, is China now being more supplied by TiO2 companies in China? Secondly, in your, in your comments, you said that the subsequent cost savings will be substantial in closing the plants. What is that about? That is, is there a cost savings that's above that $50 million, starting in 2024, that's meaningfully above?

Mark Newman (CEO and Chemical Industry)

Jeffrey, clearly there is a fixed cost savings by eliminating a plant. Obviously, you know, there will be a continued focus on optimizing the remaining circuit, and obviously, you know, the remaining circuit will, will use a wider variety of ores. What we've disclosed for now is the fixed cost savings, you know, which, which we believe we, we will achieve as a result of that. Just to comment on China, you know, again, I think there was a lot of euphoria earlier this year, you know, with the change in, in COVID-19 and the expectation that, you know, the China economy would come roaring back, and obviously, that hasn't happened.

High grade, high grade pigments into China, you know, are, are tied to some degree on high-end local consumption, but a lot to do with exports from China, you know, and things like furniture and other durable goods, which, you know, have also been down. Our view is, you know, high grade imports into China, are not necessarily being substituted by Chinese producers, but are being... You know, the demand is being impacted by, you know, where those products go into in terms of high-end furniture and laminates for export, which are also down, you know, tied to both a weaker economy in Europe and weaker construction in North America.

Jeffrey Zekauskas (MD and Senior Equity Research Analyst)

Okay. Thank you very much.

Operator (participant)

There are no further questions at this time. Mark Newman, I turn the call back over to you.

Mark Newman (CEO and Chemical Industry)

Jeannie, thank you, and thanks everyone for your interest. Again, we continue to be very active in terms of driving our five key strategic priorities. I just really want to take this opportunity to thank our entire team of employees who are passionate and focused about moving the company forward. Thanks again, and we'll look forward to catching up with some of you on the road.

Operator (participant)

This concludes today's call. You may now disconnect.