Embraer - Earnings Call - Q3 2025
November 4, 2025
Transcript
Speaker 1
Good morning, ladies and gentlemen, and thanks for standing by. As a reminder, this conference is being recorded. Its broadcast is intended exclusively for the participants of these events and may not be reproduced or retransmitted without the express authorization of Embraer. This conference call will be conducted in English, but please let me say a short announcement for Portuguese speakers. Esta conferência será realizada originalmente em inglês. Para ouvir a tradução em português, pressione o botão "Interpretação" na plataforma e selecione o idioma desejado. Para melhorar a qualidade da transmissão em português, clique também em "Desativar o áudio original" na plataforma Zoom. My name is Guy Paiva, and I'm the Head of Investor Relations, M&A, and Venture Capital for Embraer. I want to welcome you to our third-quarter earnings conference call.
The numbers in this presentation contain non-GAAP financial information to help investors reconcile Eve's financial information in GAAP standards to Embraer's IFRS. We remind you Eve's results will be discussed at the company's conference call. It is important to mention that all numbers are presented in U.S. dollars, as it is our functional currency. This conference call may include statements about future events based on Embraer expectations and financial market trends. Such statements are subject to uncertainties that may cause actual results to differ from those expressed or implied in this conference call. Except in accordance with the applicable rules, the company assumes no obligation to publicly update any forward-looking statements. For detailed financial information, the company encourages reviewing publications filed by the company with the Brazilian Comissão de Valores Mobiliários, or CVM. At this time, all participants are in a listen-only mode.
We will give instructions later on for participation in the two Q&A sessions. Participants on today's conference call are Francisco Gomes Neto, President and CEO of Embraer; Antonio Carlos Garcia, Chief Financial Officer; Valtércio Souza, Corporate Communications Manager; and myself. This conference call will have three parts. In the first part, top management will present the company's Q3 results. In the second part, we'll host a Q&A session only for investors. Last but definitely not least, in the third part, we will host a dedicated Q&A session only for the press. It is my pleasure to now turn the conference call to our President and CEO, Francisco Gomes Neto. Please go ahead, Francisco.
Speaker 6
Thank you, Guy, and good morning, everyone. It's a pleasure to be here with you to share Embraer's third-quarter 2025 results. Embraer is currently experiencing a highly positive phase, a strong indication that our strategy, driven by efficiency and innovation, is delivering solid results and effectively supporting our sustainable growth. In commercial aviation, highlights include new orders for Avelo for 50 E195-E2s, plus 50 options, and LATAM for 24 E195-E2s, plus 50 options. These achievements have increased the division's backlog to $15.2 billion, with an impressive 2.7-1 book-to-bill ratio. In executive aviation, we achieved an all-time high for third-quarter revenues, reaching approximately $580 million. We also celebrated a historic milestone: the delivery of our 2,000th business jet, marking a record for year-to-date deliveries. Our backlog in executive aviation now stands at $7.3 billion, supported by a robust 2.4-1 book-to-bill ratio, reflecting continued strong demand for our aircraft.
In defense and security, we continue to reinforce our global presence. Portugal confirmed the purchase of its sixth KC-390 Millennium, including additional options to support future European acquisitions. We also signed new agreements for the A-29 Super Tucano with Panama and Sierra Nevada Corporation in the U.S., reinforcing the aircraft's relevance and versatility. The division closed the quarter with a $3.9 billion backlog and 1.3-1 book-to-bill ratio. Our Service & Support business maintained its accelerated growth path with expanding capabilities. We signed a new maintenance agreement with CommuteAir and launched Starlink connectivity solutions for Praetor and Legacy operators. As a result, the business unit finished the quarter with a $4.9 billion backlog and a 1.8-1 book-to-bill ratio. At Embraer, continuous improvement is more than a process. It is a mindset.
We successfully completed more than 800 Kaizen projects over the past 12 months, and now, by combining our lean culture with AI tools, we are moving forward more rapidly in achieving productivity gains. Our production-level initiatives and the implementation of our Perfect Station concept led to a 16% increase in aircraft deliveries this year. From 2026 onwards, we expect even greater production stability in all product lines. The implementation of our zero-defect methodology reduced our cost of poor quality by 12%. Another initiative that has been delivering significant results is the production lead time reduction. We have achieved important improvements, such as reducing the production time of Praetors by 40%, KC-390 Millennium by 33%, and E-Jets by 27%, compared to 2021 levels. More production with lower work in progress.
We made significant progress with new and expanded facilities at key locations in the United States and Brazil, including new hangars, painting booths, and final assembly areas. These investments are designed to enable higher production volumes and faster deliveries, fully aligned with our growth strategy. At the same time, we are transforming our supply chain through Supply Chain Management 2.0, a comprehensive initiative that integrates digital technologies, proactive risk management, and the deployment of artificial intelligence for smarter planning and forecasting. These efforts have already started to pay off. Aircraft deliveries increased by 16%. Average shortage decreased by 25% compared to last year. I will now move on to operational results by segment. Our figures are based on year-on-year comparisons. In commercial aviation, revenues increased a significant 31% because of better product mix and higher volumes and prices.
Adjusted EBIT margin improved from minus 4.8% to plus 1.3%, supported by operating leverage and lower other operating expenses. In executive aviation, revenues increased 4%, helped by higher prices. Adjusted EBIT margin decreased 4.2 percentage points because of product mix, U.S. import tariffs, 2.6 percentage points, and higher costs. Moving to defense and security, revenues grew 27% because of higher KC-390 volumes and a one-off positive contract-related adjustment. Adjusted EBIT margin improved from 7.2% to 12.9% as a consequence of operating leverage and client mix. In service and support, revenues rose 16%, driven by higher volumes and the ramp-up of the OGMA GTF engine shop. Adjusted EBIT margin decreased 5 percentage points because of services and materials delays. Before I conclude, I'd like to share a brief update on Eve's steady progress. The first full-scale engineering prototype test flight is planned for late 2025, early 2026.
With that, I will now hand it over to Antonio to walk us through the key financial highlights of the quarter.
Speaker 4
Thank you, Francisco. Good morning and good afternoon to everyone. Turning to the quarter, all my comments will be based on year-over-year comparisons unless noted. Before we dive into our financial results for the third quarter of 2025, I'd like to start reiterating our 2025 guidance. We expect to deliver between 77 and 85 aircraft in commercial aviation and 145-155 in executive aviation from an operational point of view. Meanwhile, we expect to achieve between $7 billion-$7.5 billion in revenues, 7.5%-8.3% in adjusted EBIT margin, and more than $200 million in adjusted free cash flow from a financial perspective. These forecasts may appear conservative at first glance, but they reflect the supply chain risks we still face in Q4. Having said that, I'd like to reinforce our estimates reflect our confidence in our operational prowess and the resilience of our business model.
We remain comfortable with our outlook and feel confident we are on track to meet our four-year guidance. That said, let's take a look at our financial results for the quarter. Slide 12 delivers. Embraer delivered 62 aircraft in the third quarter 2025: 20 commercial jets, 41 executive jets, and one KC-390 military plane. This represents a 5% increase compared to the same period last year, with commercial aviation deliveries up 25% year over year and executive aviation stable. More importantly, for the first nine months, we have delivered 46 commercial jets, which is 57% of the midpoint of our guidance and 2 percentage points above our five-year average for the period. In executive aviation, we have delivered 102 executive jets, or 68% of the midpoint of our guidance, and 11 solid percentage points higher than the 57% average from the past five years, which demonstrates our strong execution.
Slide 13 backlog and revenue. Our company-wide backlog reached $31.3 billion during the quarter, up a significant 38% and higher than our previous historical record. Looking at each division, executive aviation and Service & Support led the pack, with their backlogs up 65% and 40% respectively, followed by commercial aviation up 37% and defense and security up 80%. I'd like to highlight the significant volumes of purchase options currently held by our customer, which is in total roughly $20 billion. These are not firming orders yet, but they provide a substantial upside potential for our backlog in the next few years, which could increase towards $50 billion. Moving to revenues, our top line was close to $2 billion for an increase of 18%. From a business perspective, the breakdown appears well-balanced.
Commercial and executive aviation each contributed circa 30%, followed by Service & Support with 25% and defense and security with 14%. Moving to the next slide, we generated $236 million in adjusted EBIT in the third quarter 2025, with an 11.8% margin. Now, adjusted EBIT for the quarter was $172 million, with an 8.6% margin. This compared to $147 million, or 8.7% margin, in the third quarter 2024, if we excluded the one-time impact of the Boeing agreement, which boosted the adjusted margin by approximately 900 basis points. For the first nine months of the year, the adjusted EBIT margin stands at 8.6%, a significant improvement of the 2.9% average over the last past five years. However, it's important to mention we still expect a relevant impact from U.S. import tariffs, which should weigh on our Q4 margin, along with additional costs related to our return to office initiative.
Let's move it now to the next slide. Embraer generated $300 million in adjusted free cash flow in the third quarter 2025. Mainly supported by operating activities, $224 million in EBITDA and lower accounts receivable. Looking now at our investment, excluding Eve, we allocated a total of $99 million during the quarter, slightly lower than last year. The figures include $39 million in CapEx, $37 million in addition to intangibles, $10 million in the pool program to support new contracts, and $30 million in research. Year-to-date, research investments have reached $33 million, or 12% of the $284 million total investment. These resources are focused on supporting sustainable growth and innovation. Slide 16 net income. Let me walk you through the financial bridge from our reported EBIT to both reported and adjusted net income. We started with the quarter with almost $160 million in EBIT.
After accounting for $53 million in net financial expenses, $22 million in tax credits, and $12 million in minority interest, we arrive at $170 million in reported net income. Then, adjusting for extraordinary items such as $30 million in deferred taxes and $32 million from Eve's results, we get to $54 million in adjusted net income. We closed the quarter with an adjusted margin of 2.7%, a sharp decline from 13.1% last year. I'd like to emphasize this $167 million reduction was mainly driven by the one-time positive impact of $150 million from the Boeing agreement recorded last year, as well as less favorable net financial results. Looking at the evolution of earnings per share, we have seen solid sequential improvement over the past few years. Our EPS totaled $1.7 per ADS over the past 12 months, or substantially higher than negative $0.20 reported in 2021.
Let's move to the next slide. First of all, I'd like to start this slide talking about our liquidity position. Embraer's standalone net debt position decreased by $646 million to only $439 million in the third quarter 2025, as the company continued to implement its debt liability strategy and reduce its financial gearing. We ended the quarter with a net debt/EBIT ratio of only 0.5 times, excluding Eve, for a significant improvement from 1.3 times a year earlier. It is important to note this. The increase in leverage compared to year-end 2024 is temporary because of the business seasonality. We do expect to finish the year in a net cash position. Our liability management strategy remains focused on extended debt duration and reducing our cost of debt. The average loan maturity is now 5.9 years, with 96% of our debts in long-term contracts.
To conclude, I'd like to remind you we announced a new liability management initiative in the third quarter 2025, which will be fully concluded in November. The company issued a $1 billion long 12-year bond at 5.4% coupon, and we will repurchase a total of $809 million from our 2028 and 2030 bonds. We will share an updated debt maturity profile and average cost of debt with our full-year financials. Slide 18 shareholder remuneration. Before I finish my presentation, I'd like to take a moment to thank our shareholders for their trust and highlight the recent developments in our shareholder remuneration initiatives. First, I want to share an exciting milestone. Yesterday, we officially updated our ticker symbol to MBJ, which means Embraer Jets, to better reflect the company's current strategy and vision for the future.
Second, Embraer declared nearly BRL 210 million in interest on equity over the past two quarters, which translates into BRL 0.28 per share for a 0.35% dividend yield. Just a quick reminder, this amount may be complemented by a top-up dividend if needed to meet the minimum 25% net income distribution required by Brazilian corporate law. The full amount will be paid in a single installment after our 2026 annual shareholders' meeting. With that, I will hand it back to Francisco for his final remark. Thank you very much. Thank you, Antonio. I'd like to take a moment to reflect on our recent key achievements and share a few final thoughts. In commercial aviation, strong year-one sales and the continued consolidation of the E2 platform mark our best sales year. Executive aviation continues to see robust demand across its entire portfolio, reflecting the strength of our products and customer relationships.
In defense and security, the KC-390 is gaining traction in key global campaigns, including India and NATO, with Sweden's recent order reinforcing its growing international relevance. Meanwhile, Service & Support continues to expand, highlighted by the groundbreaking of a new MRO facility in the U.S., further strengthening our global footprint. Looking forward, we expect substantial mid-term growth while strategically investing in new technologies to prepare the company for a more ambitious and long-term expansion, always grounded in our culture of safety first and quality always. With that, I would like to move on to the Q&A session.
Speaker 3
We will now start the question and answer session. We remind you again this conference is being recorded. Its broadcast is intended exclusively for the participants of this event and may not be reproduced or retransmitted without the express authorization of Embraer. We also highlight this conference call is being conducted in English with translation to Portuguese. Please, let me say a short announcement for Portuguese speakers. Esta conferência está sendo realizada originalmente em inglês. Para ouvir a tradução em português, pressione o botão "Interpretação" da plataforma Zoom e selecione o idioma português. Após selecionar o idioma no botão "Interpretação", clique também em "Desativar o áudio original na plataforma" para melhorar a qualidade da transmissão em português. We request participants interested in asking questions to press the "Raise a Hand" button on the platform. When your name is announced, make sure your microphone is on and start your question.
To give everyone a chance to participate, we request to ask just one question per time. If you need assistance, please use the Q&A button on the platform. We will also answer questions sent via the platform chat. The first part of the Q&A session will be exclusively for equity research analysts and investors. The second part of the Q&A will be only for the press. We'll start the Q&A session dedicated to research analysts and investors. The first question comes from Kristine Liwag with Morgan Stanley. Please go ahead.
Speaker 7
Hey, good morning, everyone. Good morning, Francisco, Antonio, and Guy.
Speaker 1
Morning.
Speaker 7
First, you know, I mean, Antonio, the balance sheet and the financial strength of the company is pretty remarkable, especially with, you know, what we saw in 2020 with COVID and all the changes. With the net cash position slated for the company by year-end, I was wondering how you guys think about future return to shareholders, especially if you're not going to build another big R&D cycle. Would you consider share buybacks or increasing dividends? How do we think about returns to shareholders?
Speaker 1
Thanks, Christine, for the great question. I was expecting this already. I would say we, to be honest, we start to repay or resume dividends this end of last year. Now, I would say we are very happy that we are able to do it. Point one. Point two, we are evaluating our capital structure. It's a valid question you are raising right now. We do not have today a firm opinion on how to move forward. I do not see additional dividends at this point in time. We are paying 25% of the net income of the year, which is already for a heavy, intensive business, already a lot. I would say we do not have a response right now, but we are evaluating further moves in this direction. In order, for example, buyback is something that's on the table right now to be discussed.
We do not have an answer right now, but we are really paying attention to this point as well.
Speaker 7
Great. Thank you. If I could do a follow-up, you know, a few weeks ago, American Airlines announced that they're retrofitting their E-Jets fleet. You know, to do the overhead bin, I think you guys are doing the work on that. I was wondering, since they want to do a full interior refresh, is there an expansion of work scope that you can now address, especially as you've increased your services offering? Are you doing the complete retrofit for American, or are you only doing portions of it? How do we think about, you know, if other airlines in the U.S. decide to also retrofit their fleet with your more expanded services capability? How do you think about that market, and could you capture more of that?
Speaker 1
Oh, thank you. Francisco speaking. Christine, thanks for the question. This is part of our initiative to improve the E175, E1. I mean, this first movement was with the interior. This includes not only the bins, but includes seats, new seats, Recaro seats. This includes the lighting, a new modern lighting, and also available a better connectivity for the aircraft. I mean, yes, we have a program with American Airlines, but this, I would say, this kit is available for other customers, and we can do it if they want at our new MRO in Dallas.
Speaker 7
Great. Thank you very much. Looking forward to more contracts.
Speaker 1
Oh, thank you. We too.
Speaker 3
The next question comes from Marcelo Motta with JPMorgan. Please go ahead.
Speaker 2
Hi, everyone. Thank you for taking my question. My question is regarding the EBIT margin on the executive segment. I mean, you comment about, you know, the impact of product mix and higher costs. Just wondering, you know, when we look at the component of higher cost, if you think this is more structural, it's more like a one-off on this quarter. If you could explain also what helped the defense EBIT margin, that would be great as well. Thank you very much.
Speaker 1
Hi, Marcelo. This is Guy. Good morning, and thanks for the question. In executive aviation, we have seen, like in other businesses, cost inflation. That is something that has been a trend in the industry for the past few years. We would expect that to continue. We have been obviously being very resilient in protecting our margins in the business, but we obviously will see some fluctuations on a quarter-to-quarter basis. Regarding defense, there was an impact on the higher KC volumes and just the client mix where we had a higher participation of foreign clients.
Speaker 4
Marcelo, just to complement you in regards to executive aviation, please take into account that one year ago, we did not have tariffs. They have impact on the executive aviation margins. Also, the tariffs are eating up some 2%-3.5% of our margin on a comparable basis. I would say that explains the deviation as well.
Speaker 2
Perfect. Thank you very much.
Speaker 3
The next question comes from Lucas Marquiori with BTG Pactual. Please go ahead.
Speaker 8
Thanks. Hey, guys. Morning. Yeah, my question is just on the one-offs on the margin as well, especially on commercial aviation. Just trying to understand what are these tax credits that you guys mentioned you guys had on this queue. I mean, particularly to what they relate to and how should we think about, I mean, their recurrency going forward. Also on the defense as well, what exactly is this one-off contract-related adjustment? Is this a change in a contract of a foreign client that helped on the margin? I mean, just trying to kind of clear that out. Thanks for the clarifications.
Speaker 1
Hi, Lucas. Guy here. Good morning. Thanks for the question again. In commercial aviation, the tax credits are related to some import parts that we did a study and we were able to kind of claim these credits. Okay? On defense, we reassign a plane in the production to a different client that was already, let's call it, halfway in its production. Given that it is a percentage of completion, we recalculate the revenues and the profitability of the contract given that it was already halfway through.
Speaker 8
Awesome. Thanks, Guy.
Speaker 4
Thanks, Lucas.
Speaker 3
The next question comes from Andre Masini with Citi. Please go ahead.
Speaker 0
Hi, guys. Francisco, Antonio, Guy. My question is on the state of the Pratt GTF engines. The competitor A220 product is having some major issues with the Pratt. We read in a piece of news saying that 17% of the A220 fleet is grounded because of the Pratt GTF. We understand the engines are not the same, right? The A220 uses the PW1500 while the PW1900. The question is if the PW1900 is indeed having no issues whatsoever. That is the first one. The second one, if I may, a totally different topic. This November, of course, the world is looking to Brazil for the COP and the Amazon. I want to ask about an old program, the CVAM program, the Amazon surveillance system that you guys participated in, call it, 25 years ago. The planes from that program were Embraer's 145s.
If there is any renewal program or plan for those planes and the status of the Amazon surveillance systems and Embraer's participation overall. Thank you.
Speaker 1
Hey, Andrea. Francisco speaking. Thanks for your question. First, start with the E2 GTF. I mean, you know, the E2, I mean, uses the third generation of the PW1900G engine, which has incorporated several upgrades and improvements. On top, the E2 is a lighter, much lighter aircraft compared to the others, which means less demand on the engines. That is why the E2 has suffered much less than the competition. Now, I mean, the engines are getting better and better with new improvements being implemented. We expect much better performance and durability of the engines, I mean, going forward for the E2s, which is good news for the airlines. About this Amazon program, I mean, we do not have any project at this point of time with this project. I mean, we are working with the Brazilian force in some projects, but not this one as far as I know.
Speaker 0
Very clear. Thank you, Francisco.
Speaker 4
Thanks, Andrea.
Speaker 3
The next question comes from Andre Ferreira with Bradesco BBI. Please go ahead.
Speaker 5
Yes. Good morning. Thank you for taking my question. I have two here. First one, going back to the tax credits in commercial aviation, we saw R$ 56 million in the quarter looking at the ITR. Just wanted to make sure if that is all in the commercial aviation segment, which would mean that the tax credits were more or less 1.5% in terms of EBIT positive impact on EBIT margin. Also, second point about the tariffs. The total impact, adding executive aviation and service, was, if I'm correct, $17 million, right? Which seems lower than initial expectations, but there could be some help from inventories here. Do you expect a higher impact in the fourth quarter? I mean, not just from seasonality, but also even on a more comparable basis. That's it from my side.
Speaker 1
Hi, good morning. Thanks for the question. This is Guy here. In terms of the tax credits, it's going to be low single-digit value. So it's less than BRL 56 million that you alluded to. In terms—what's the second question? Sorry, on the tariffs. The tariffs in the quarter were BRL 17 million and a total of BRL 27 million year-to-date. We originally mentioned after Q1 results that we expected to be around BRL 62-65 million for the full year. That would imply that we still have about BRL 35-38 million to go. The company has been working hard to reduce its exposure. We hope that we can finish the year under the original amount that we mentioned. Yes, the inventory cycle has played a role so far.
Speaker 4
Just to complement you, this one-off is the second question you are getting about the same issue. It's normal business as usual. We have temporary importation. When we have changes in the supply chain here, we get the credit. There's nothing that is something special. It's just part of the daily life here. Just so that you guys don't believe it's something extraordinary.
Speaker 5
Very clear. Thank you.
Speaker 4
Thanks, Andrea.
Speaker 3
The next question comes from Gabriel Resende with Itaú BBA. Please go ahead.
Speaker 5
Hi, good morning. I would like to make just a touch on the company's guidance, especially on the profitability side. Just wondering how relevant could be the supply chain risks for the fourth quarter, as well as the impact from U.S. tariffs that made the company choose to not revise its guidance reports, especially considering that you have already delivered in the year-to-date figure this very high EBIT margin, which is already above what you're expecting for the full year. Just trying to understand which one of these effects should be more relevant, either the potential delays on deliveries due to supply chain issues or the U.S. tariffs impact for the fourth quarter. Thank you.
Speaker 4
All right, Gabriel, I will answer half of the question, and then Antonio will complement the answer. Regarding the supply chain, I mean, the risk for the supply chain in 2025 is over. I mean, we have all the parts we need to assemble the aircraft. Now it's up to us to assemble the aircraft. We have a concentration of aircraft to be delivered in the next two months. That's why we decided to keep the guidance as it is. Again, no risk with supply chain at this point of time. Now we are working hard to make sure we have a better 2026 in terms of production stability, production leveling than it was in 2025. About the EBIT, Antonio, do you want to comment?
No, just to complement what Francisco is saying, assuming that we will be able to get the aircraft out of the door, I would say we look more for the high end than for the lower end. I would say, as I mentioned in my first comment, we calculated the risk. You could take 0.3% EBIT margin comparing with the 8.6% we have in the last nine months. If everything goes well, I would say there's nothing that goes against that we may be able to even surpass the high end of the margin. We need to deliver. There's a lot of aircraft to be delivered to end of December just because of it. Please do not forget, our guidance was not contemplating the tariffs. It seems to be conservative, but we were able to offset the guidance, and we are still there.
More or less, I would say looking for the high end than the lower end, I would say, is a remarkable achievement for our company here.
Speaker 5
Yeah, it's definitely well noted, Antonio. Thanks, Francisco, as well.
Speaker 3
The next question comes from Lucas Laghi with XP Investimentos. Please go ahead.
Speaker 8
Good morning, everyone. Thank you for taking my question. I would like to focus on the services division. I mean, we have been seeing this increase in profile of agnostic revenues and acceleration of GTF engines contracts on OGMA. I guess you guys were very clear during the investor day on the potential for this top line pocket that you guys are aiming. But could you please elaborate on the profitability profile of this division going forward? I mean, should the margins be lower or higher considering this shift in top line new profile toward these agnostic revenues? Just getting to know, I mean, a bit more about profitability given this new profile of revenues. And thinking specifically on the third quarter, I mean, we saw this decline on EBIT margin on services. We know it's hard to, I mean, to get all the factors on a quarter-on-quarter basis.
Was this related to this different revenue stream, I mean, that you're seeing with this increase in revenues from other sources, or was it a matter of conjunctural factors as you highlighted in the release? Just to clarify on profitability here as well. Thank you very much.
Speaker 4
Lucas, thank you for the question. Tony speaking here. I'm going to answer the Q3, and then Francisco is going to complement the long-term view for the margin. What is happening on the service? We have some bad guys throughout the year, especially also in Q3. Means if you delay parts to the customer, having to pay giving credit or pay payments. And then we get the, I would say, liquidate the damage for suppliers. In Q4, it's just, in my opinion, a time lapse from bad guys to good guys. I would say we should be fine with the normally 14-15% EBIT margin for service for this year. I would say around 15%. It's just, I would say, a time window here between Q3 and Q4. For the future, Lucas, the service and support is one of our most important growth drivers in the organization.
That's why we have been investing a lot. I mean, last year, we duplicated our structure to support our business jet in the U.S. This means more service at Embraer. MROs, more revenues, more profit. Now we are doing the same with commercial jets with this project in Dallas, Texas. Again, we expect an important growth in terms of revenues and profitability in the next five years from our service and support division.
Speaker 5
Great. Thank you very much, guys. Have a nice day.
Speaker 4
Thanks, Lucas. You too.
Speaker 3
The next question comes from Alberto Valerio with UBS. Please go ahead.
Speaker 9
Good morning, Francisco, Antonio, and Guy. Thank you for taking my questions. I focus on the bottom line just to see some recurring and non-recurring items going forward. Financial expenses come a little bit above what we were expecting. Wondering whether the offer of EVs inside that I saw on the cash flows, that's $12.6 million. And another one is about the non-controlled interest. Also come a little bit higher than we were expecting. Just to know the recurring of these $12.2 million on non-controlled interest. Thank you very much.
Speaker 4
Good morning, Alberto. This is Antonio speaking here. For the net financial result, it's very simple. When the share price goes up, you have market-to-market obligation to our long-term incentives. You have a hit in the net financial results because the interest you are paying and the interest you are earning, I would say, is $50 million. I would say it's a big hit is because of it. Non-controlled interest, let me have a look here, is just that Eve was in the market-to-market. In Q3 was positive. That is why it generates a positive impact for the other shareholders just because of it. Again, it's a temporary advantage because probably Eve is going to be more value in Q4 than Q3, that this credit is going to be reverted. I hope to be able to answer you.
Speaker 5
Very clear. Thank you very much, Antonio.
Speaker 4
Thank you.
Speaker 3
Thank you. Our next question comes from the chat, and it's from Senk Orkin. Thanks for the presentation. Can you provide some color on expected U.S. tariff impact on coming quarters? Thanks.
Speaker 1
Hi, Senk. Good morning and thanks for the question. We originally guided for about $60 million-$65 million of U.S. import tariffs for the full year. As I mentioned, year-to-date, we have already recognized about $27 million of those. We should, based on the regional guidance, have about $35 million left in Q4. It is important that the company has been working hard to reduce the size of that potential bill through different initiatives. We do expect it to be lower. Let's see when we publish our full-year numbers what the actual total is. Thank you.
Speaker 3
Thank you very much. This concludes the question and answer session for equity research analysts and investors. Now we'll start the Q&A session dedicated to the press. First, we'll be answering questions in English, and then we'll be answering questions in Portuguese. We'll also answer questions sent via the platform chat. Please hold while we compile the questions. The first question comes from Nelson During. I'm sorry, just one second because this question is in Portuguese. The next question comes from—the first question is in Portuguese. I'm sorry, everyone. There's no answers in English. So we'll be answering the Portuguese questions for now. A primeira pergunta vem do Nelson During.
Speaker 4
The first question comes from Nelson Durin from India. How is the campaign for KC-390 in India? The recent visit of Brazilian Vice President, did he make any advancements in the negotiation? What is the scope with the Mahindra Group? India focuses on local production. Would it be with parts produced in Brazil or fully produced with Indian products? Thank you very much for your question. The India project is moving forward very well. It is moving forward on our side and on the Indian side. The inauguration of Embraer's office two weeks ago in New Delhi was an important landmark for the company. Truth be told, we also counted with the presence of Vice President of Brazil, Geraldo Alckmin, Minister of Defense, the Commander of the Brazilian Air Force. Therefore, we are very well positioned. We believe that KC-390 is an excellent solution to India's Air Force.
Our partnership with Mahindra includes marketing, also marketing and sales support. We are also present on the industrial side of the deal. This project of the middle aircraft transportation requires a 50% local origination of the parts, the production of the parts. Many of the parts will still be produced in Brazil, and there will be also parts from our suppliers, being a vast majority either produced in India or sent to India where the final assembly of the aircraft will be conducted. The final localization part is not yet concluded. We are working on it, but it will be a collaboration between Brazil and India. All in all, it will be a win-win for both countries with this new business. It is a business that for KC-390 is huge. It is a similar number of aircraft, very similar to our total production so far. Thank you.
Speaker 3
A segunda pergunta.
Speaker 4
Second question. Please bear with me momentarily. Our next question is from Chandu Alves with Ovale Newspaper. Dear Francisco Gomes Neto, how is the negotiation with the U.S. government for the removal of the 10% tariff on planes? Does that harm Embraer? Thank you for the question. The negotiation is between both governments. Embraer does not have direct participation in the negotiation. It's between both governments. I would say that things are moving quite well. I think you just saw that President Lula met with President Trump in Kuala Lumpur a week ago. That was a very important step towards the negotiation process. The negotiation of the process is moving forward, and we are very optimistic about it. Once a bilateral agreement is met between both countries, the chances of the aircraft and its parts resume its zero tariff chances are very good.
This has also happened with other bilateral agreements with the U.K., I mean, Europe, Japan, and Indonesia, where in all cases, the aircraft and its parts went back to zero tariff. Yes, the second part. It is harmful in two ways. One is the parts that Embraer sends to the U.S. for the assembly of executive aircraft that is being impacted by tariff payments. This increases our expenses because the product becomes more expensive. In the case of commercial aircraft, it penalizes the aircraft because it becomes more expensive with the tariffs. This can probably may jeopardize the fact that airline companies may not even place further orders. I just have a brief announcement to English speakers.
Speaker 3
To switch to English, please press the interpretation button on the platform and then select English. A próxima pergunta vem de Jessé Nascimento. Por favor, pode prosseguir.
Speaker 4
Next question from Mr. Nascimento. Please proceed. Hello, Francisco. Good morning. Can you hear me? Yes, loud and clear. You can go ahead. At the beginning of your remarks, you said that Embraer is envisioning a more ambitious expansion. How do you envision this expansion? Can you give us some details, please? Okay. I understand that you're referring to a future expansion, right? Yes, precisely. Okay. Apparently, our product portfolio is very modern and competitive. We can notice that if you look at our order backlog, because it's close to $31 billion. There are still $50 billion under construction. We continue to focus on the sale of these products. With this backlog, we expect a very significant growth of the company in the next five years. We are thinking beyond five years and even ten years. Therefore, now we are investing in new technologies.
Important investments in new technologies, because Embraer needs to be prepared for a future growth cycle based on new products or new aircraft. It could be aircraft for executive aviation, commercial, or defense aircraft. This is our short and long-term view. This is the expansion that I mentioned during my remarks. New products and also future opportunities for further growth of the company going forward. These new products could refer to commercial aviation, meaning larger planes than E195-E2. It could be larger or smaller. We are also looking at new technologies with electric propulsion. It could be a hybrid one for mid-size aircraft. I mean, we do not define yet what would be our production line. We are investing in new technologies because it's important that we are prepared to make that decision when the time comes.
And about KC-390 or the C-390 Millennium with India, from my understanding, Embraer thinks that this business is a given, right? No. This is a very tough competition. We are competing with a U.S. aircraft, an American aircraft, well-consolidated in the market. We are also competing with a French aircraft. We believe that our aircraft are very well positioned for that kind of application. From there until signing the agreement, there is a large avenue. I mean, just my last question. Maybe you would tell me that I should participate in Eve's conference call. In terms of the actual flight tests with the flying aircraft, will the tests be conducted in Brazil? Yeah, they are occurring in Brazil. We hope that Eve's first flight should occur late this year or early next year.
We are working very hard in the development of the product, which we believe to be very important for Embraer in the future. If you need more details, you should just join Eve's conference call, which will follow ours. The tests are being conducted in our plant in Gavião Peixoto. Thank you very much. Now, our next question will be in English. Let me just give a brief announcement to Portuguese speakers. To switch to Portuguese, please press the interpretation button on the platform and select Portuguese. The next question will be conducted in English. It comes from John Hemmerdinger. Please go ahead. The next question comes from John Hemmerdinger. Sorry, can you hear me all? Yes. Yes, John, go ahead. Yeah, hey, thanks for taking the question. I just want to touch on, Francisco, you mentioned new commercial products, and you've talked about some of this before.
I also heard you mention potential larger aircraft than the 195. Would you be willing to give any sort of updated timeline on when you might expect to make a decision on what comes next on the commercial side? And if so, what is that timeline? Oh, actually, John, this is the most frequent question I have had in the past year. Again, I mean, the answer remains the same. We keep investing in new technologies. I mean, we want to have our, let's say, technology readiness to go for a new product. That might be executive aircraft or commercial aircraft, bigger or smaller. We don't have a timeline definition at this point of time. Yeah, fair enough. If I can follow that up with a question about the U.S. government shutdown, has that affected any of the FAA work that you're doing, the certification work with Eve?
Any of the airworthiness ticketing for the aircraft, the E2s, or the E1s for that matter? Has it affected any discussions about tariffs? Are these things delayed because of the shutdown? No, no, not that I know, John. Again, I mean, in terms of certification work, we continue working very closely with ANAC in Brazil and also with the contacts with the FAA. The tariffs, I mean, I don't see any issue because of the shutdown affecting the tariffs negotiation between Brazil and the U.S. Thanks for taking my question. Thanks, John. Thanks, John. The next question comes from Chidozie Uzozie. Please go ahead. The next question comes from Chidozie Uzozie. Your microphone is muted on your side. Hello. Hello, good afternoon, everyone. My name is Chidozie. I'm calling from Lagos, Nigeria. Thank you, Francisco, for having your opportunity this afternoon. I'm African, so I have an African question.
Africa is underprivileged. From what I said, Embraer is in a highly positive phase of peace operation this year. With that having been said, does Embraer have any plans to increase its commitment to build capacity in Africa? Chidozie, thanks for the question. Africa is a very important market for Embraer, a very important region. We have many aircraft in operation in the continent. More recently, we delivered aircraft for Airlink, South Africa, the E2. We have many customers operating aircraft in Africa. We will continue to invest in that region, I mean, to introduce more and more Embraer aircraft and our Embraer services in the continent. Is there any plan to increase the commitment to building capacity in Africa? In terms of services, yeah, as much as we deliver more aircraft, then we need more servicing support depending on the region.
Today, we already have a good structure, service structure to support our aircraft in operation in the continent. Thank you, Francisco. Thank you, Chidoze. Thank you very much. The next question comes from the chat, and it's from Edgardo Jimenez Muscle from Aviation Line. Is there any update regarding the suspension of the development of the new Embraer turboprop? How long can this program realistically remain paused before its initial design assumptions and market analysis become obsolete? He's got also a question number two, but if you'd like to answer this one first, please go ahead. Sure. Thanks for the question. The turboprop project or initiative has been canceled by us. I mean, we don't have at this point of time any project or initiative in that direction anymore. It might change in the future, but at this point of time, the project has, I mean, it's not on hold.
It has been canceled. What is on hold is the 175E2. That one is on hold because of the scope clause in the U.S. We are following the scope clause. If any change happens, then we will consider to restore the work on the 175E2. Again, turboprop project has been canceled. Thank you very much, sir. His second question is, I would like to know if there have been any updates regarding the Aerolíneas Argentinas order for the E195-E2 aircraft, which was put on hold after the change of government. No, no changes and no updates. We hope one day they will come back and to consider that program, that is a natural replacement of the old E190 E1s by the E2 family. At this point of time, we don't have any update on that sales campaign. Thank you very much, sir. Thank you, everyone, for participating.
This has concluded the Q&A session of the Embraer conference. Concluímos as sessões de perguntas e respostas e a conferência de resultados. We now concluded Embraer's conference call.