FTAI Aviation - Earnings Call - Q4 2024

Executive Summary

• Q4 2024 delivered strong top-line and EBITDA performance: revenue $498.8M, diluted EPS $0.84, and Adjusted EBITDA $252.0M; EBITDA rose 9% q/q and 55% y/y, driven by Leasing ($133.9M) and Aerospace Products ($117.3M) with corporate including a $18.7M gain on offshore vessel sales.
• Management initiated a 2025 target adjusted free cash flow of ~$650M and reaffirmed 2025 segment Adjusted EBITDA of ~$1.1–$1.15B (Leasing ~$500M; Aerospace $600–$650M); 2026 segment Adjusted EBITDA raised from ~$1.25B to ~$1.4B, supported by SCI scaling and MRE capacity expansion including QuickTurn Europe JV.
• Dividend maintained at $0.30 per ordinary share for Q4; preferred dividends declared of $0.51563 (Series C) and $0.59375 (Series D).
• Strategic Capital Initiative secured $2.5B asset-level debt (Atlas SP/Deutsche Bank) enabling $4B+ deployable capital into on-lease 737NG/A320ceo aircraft, positioning FTAI as an asset-light operator and growth catalyst for Aerospace Products.

What Went Well and What Went Wrong

What Went Well

• Segment momentum: Q4 Adjusted EBITDA $252.0M, up 9% q/q and 55% y/y; Leasing ~$133.9M and Aerospace Products ~$117.3M; Aerospace Products EBITDA up 15% q/q and 115% y/y, with an overall segment margin of ~34%.
• Strategic scale-up: SCI financing commitment of $2.5B facilitates $4B+ deployable capital; Rome JV adds capacity to 1,800 CFM56 modules (600 engines) and >600 tests annually; CEO: “We significantly expanded our Maintenance, Repair and Exchange capabilities… and added financial firepower”.
• Insurance recoveries: $11M received in Q4, and >$22M in Q1 2025 already; management expects total recoveries to exceed ~$88M write-offs in 2022 during 2025.

What Went Wrong

• Diluted EPS down y/y to $0.84 (from $1.09) despite stronger EBITDA, reflecting higher interest expense, positive tax provision vs prior-year tax benefit, and a $8.0M loss on redemption of preferred shares in Q4 2024.
• Montreal legacy work remained a modest margin headwind (1–2pp) in Q4 with sub-10% margin on <~$20M of legacy contracts; expected to fully roll off by end of Q1 2025.
• Elevated interest expense ($60.9M in Q4 vs $43.7M in Q4 2023) and continued depreciation/amortization growth reflect the capital-intensive ramp and internalization transition earlier in 2024.

Transcript

Operator (participant)

Hello, and welcome to FTAI Aviation Q4 2024 Earnings Conference Call. At this time, all participants are on a listen-only mode. After the speaker's presentation, there will be a Q&A session. To ask a question during the session, you will need to press star one one on your telephone. You will then hear an automated message advising your hand is raised. To withdraw your question, please press star one one again. I would now like to turn the conference over to Alan Andreini, Head of Investor Relations. You may begin.

Alan Andreini (Head of Investor Relations)

Thank you, Tawanda. I would like to welcome you all to the FTAI Aviation Q4 and Full Year 2024 Earnings Call. Joining me here today are Joe Adams, our Chief Executive Officer, Angela Nam, our Chief Financial Officer, and David Moreno, our Chief Operating Officer. We have posted an investor presentation and our press release on our website, which we encourage you to download if you have not already done so. Also, please note that this call is open to the public in listen-only mode and is being webcast. In addition, we will be discussing some non-GAAP financial measures during the call today, including EBITDA. The reconciliation of those measures to the most directly comparable GAAP measures can be found in the earnings supplement.

Before I turn the call over to Joe, I would like to point out that certain statements made today will be forward-looking statements, including regarding future earnings. These statements, by their nature, are uncertain and may differ materially from actual results. We encourage you to review the disclaimers in our press release and investor presentation regarding non-GAAP financial measures and forward-looking statements, and to review the risk factors contained in our quarterly report filed with the SEC. Now, I would like to turn the call over to Joe.

Joe Adams (CEO)

Thank you, Alan. I'm pleased today to announce our 39th dividend as a public company and our 54th consecutive dividend since inception. The dividend of $0.30 per share will be paid on March 24, based on a shareholder record date of March 14. I'd also like to start today by talking about the investor presentation posted to our website. While I'm not going to go slide by slide, we wanted to speak to our market opportunity, the value proposition, scalability, and durability of our aerospace products business. Starting with the market opportunity, if you look at the total number of operators, the majority of our target customers are small and medium-sized airlines, which have narrow-body fleets powered by CFM56 and V2500 engines, our focus engines.

They represent approximately 600 operators worldwide and 80% of the number of all these engines flown, which creates a large and fragmented addressable market of $22 billion of annual maintenance spend, where FTAI focuses and provides significant value to the customer. We offer these customers a lower fixed price with minimal downtime product compared to what our competitors do. This is made possible through our unique maintenance capabilities and expertise and a large owned engine fleet. Central to our maintenance approach is green time optimization, which is how we rebuild modules and engines that require repair. Unlike traditional MROs, FTAI leverages in-house engineering and maintenance capabilities to extract every available cycle from each module. Our scale enables us to optimize module deployment or combine modules to build right-sized engines for our customers. You can see a typical example that we detailed on Slide 13 in the presentation.

Let me take a moment now to explain the process in a little more detail. The CFM56 engine consists of three modules: the fan, the core, and the low-pressure Turbine, or otherwise called the LPT. Engine maintenance is needed when one of these modules hits their life limit. When this occurs, usually the other two modules still have remaining life. The key to our Green Time Optimization strategy is to acquire and dismantle unserviceable engines, refurbish the viable modules, and sell them individually or reassemble them into right-sized engines for customers. A right-sized engine is one where the various modules, three modules, all have a similar remaining useful life. Performing module maintenance at scale, in addition to owning the engine throughout the repair cycle, creates significant cost savings opportunities.

This allows us to offer significant benefits to customers compared to a traditional shop visit, while also generating higher margins than typical MROs. We see a bright future ahead in our unique role in the aftermarket, supported by significant investments we made in 2024, as well as the announcements we made yesterday regarding the new facility, maintenance facility in Rome, and our strategic capital initiative, which we call SCI, to accelerate our market share and help sustainably support airlines in their long-term maintenance needs. Our new joint venture agreement with IAG Engine Center Europe, which will be rebranded as QuickTurn Europe, complements our existing facilities in Montreal and Miami and will help address the strong demand for FTAI's MRE, or Maintenance Repair and Exchange Services, from our global customer base in a critical geographic location.

Secondly, we were excited to announce yesterday that the SCI has received $2.5 billion commitment for asset-level debt financing from Atlas, which is a majority-owned subsidiary of Apollo and Deutsche Bank. The SCI team is currently in the late stages of closing a second round of equity financing, and we believe the market opportunity to deploy capital raised in these SPVs in this way is in the region of more than $4 billion annually. Turning now to adjusted free cash flow, in 2024, we generated approximately $670 million from business operations, which included $140 million related to the sale of both of our offshore vessels.

At the same time, we invested approximately $1.3 billion in major growth initiatives, which range from the purchase of the Montreal maintenance facility, the termination of the management agreement with Fortress, and investments in aviation assets, in particular engines and parts, to support our growth strategy in 2025 and beyond. Overall, we feel more confident in our annual business segment EBITDA for 2025 to be between $1.1 and $1.15 billion, excluding corporate and other. We're also expecting adjusted free cash flow of approximately $650 million in 2025, which is broken out in more detail on Slide 24. We will continue to make strategic reinvestments in the business. However, the launch of our strategic capital initiative will reduce our capital asset acquisition needs in 2025 and beyond. So while we'll continue to prioritize growth opportunities, we will also consider capital redistribution to shareholders.

Finally, as we look at our current pipeline, we now expect our annual aviation EBITDA to rise from our previously projected $1.25 billion to be approximately now $1.4 billion in 2026. With that, I'll hand it over to Angela to talk through the numbers in more detail.

Angela Nam (CFO)

Thanks, Joe. The key metric for us is Adjusted EBITDA. We ended the year strongly with Adjusted EBITDA of $252 million in Q4 2024, which is up 9% compared to $232 million in Q3 2024 and up 55% compared to $162.3 million in Q4 2023. During the Q4, the $252 million EBITDA number was comprised of $133.9 million from our leasing segment, $117.3 million from our aerospace product segment, and $0.8 million from corporate and other, which included $18.7 million related to the gain on sale of both of our offshore vessels. Now, let's look at all of 2024 versus all of 2023. Adjusted EBITDA was $862.1 million in 2024, which is up 44% versus $597.3 million in 2023. Turning now to leasing, aviation leasing continued to deliver strong results, posting approximately $134 million of Adjusted EBITDA.

The pure leasing component of the $134 million came in at $128 million for Q4 versus $99 million in Q4 2023. Included in the $128 million was an $11 million settlement related to Russian assets written off in 2022. Additionally, we ended the year with the $40.4 million book value of assets sold for a 12% margin for a gain of $5.7 million. Overall, we generated $500 million of adjusted EBITDA for 2024 in aviation leasing, in alignment with our original estimates for the year. Looking ahead, we remain comfortable assuming leasing adjusted EBITDA to remain at $500 million in 2025 as we pivot our focus towards an asset-light business model.

Aerospace products had yet another excellent quarter with $117.3 million of adjusted EBITDA and an overall EBITDA margin of 34%, which is up 15% compared to $101.8 million in Q3 of this year and up 115% compared to $54.6 million in Q4 2023. We continue to see tremendous growth in our adoption and the usage of our aerospace products and remain focused on ramping up production in both of our facilities in Montreal and Miami, as well as commencing operations in Rome. In 2025, we expect to generate $600-$650 million of EBITDA, up from $381 million in 2024 and $160 million generated in 2023. With that, let me turn the call back over to Alan.

Alan Andreini (Head of Investor Relations)

Thank you, Angela. Tawanda, you may now open the call to Q&A.

Operator (participant)

Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, as a reminder, to ask a question, please press star one one on your telephone, then wait for your name to be announced. To withdraw your question, please press star one one again. Please stand by while we compile the Q&A roster. Our first question comes from the line of Kristine Liwag with Morgan Stanley. Your line is open.

Kristine Liwag (Analyst)

Good morning, everyone.

Joe Adams (CEO)

Good morning.

Kristine Liwag (Analyst)

You know, Joe, by the way, this investor presentation that you put out is very interesting, and it clearly lays out the value proposition that the FTAI business model provides. But just taking a step back, you know, when you look at the competitive landscape, one of the key investor questions had been, like, why isn't anybody else doing this? Right? I thought you had a pretty good layout of where others are, like third-party MRO, internal airlines, other aircraft leasing companies. But why is it that nobody else has this vertically integrated model? Because it really seems like you found a sweet spot. So why aren't others doing it? What's their hurdle? And what do you think, do you think your true competitive moats are?

Joe Adams (CEO)

Sure. There's a lot of different, you know, moats we've maybe put in place over the years. It's taken us, you know, seven, eight years to get to this point. So it's not a simple process. It was a sequential number of steps we took. But basically, to compete, to do what we do is similar to what United and American had to do, which is you have to own a large fleet of the same type of engine and then have your own maintenance capability and facilities. And so there's nothing to stop other people from doing that. But what we did is we sort of copied the majors and then offered that to the 600 operators around the world that don't have a maintenance facility. So it's effectively, it's an outsourcing function for a single engine type.

So when you look around the world, like, well, who could do that? Well, clearly, people that own maintenance facilities could do that. But oftentimes, they have multiple engines and they don't own the engine. They're servicing other people's engines. So they'd have to reorganize, you know, their business, you know, set up an asset management team, pick an engine, find a facility that doesn't have third-party work that they'd have to displace, and then try to assemble all the other parts. The other impediment, if you go back where we started, is we invested in PMAs, you know, six, seven years ago, and that'll be the only PMA product for this engine. So we have an exclusive on that.

Many of the companies that I just mentioned that own maintenance facilities have very strong ties with OEMs, which will commercially likely prohibit them from using PMA to any significant degree. That advantage, you know, is something that nobody can copy. The other advantages, you know, that we built up, people could, but it takes a lot of time and a focus. When we did it, you know, the outcome wasn't all that clear. I mean, it seems today clear, but when we went down that path and decided not to diversify and to own our own maintenance facilities, you know, nobody else is doing it. We were looking, people looking at us like, what are you doing? I don't know. That's, you know, we think about it all the time. We're always paranoid, and we keep putting up other barriers.

And I actually think that SCI is yet another barrier because now we've added, you know, institutional quality asset management to the mix, which that's a hard, you know, that's a big hurdle for people to, you know, you can't just go raise a first fund easily. I know because we've done it a couple of times. It takes a lot of work. And so if you put that on top of it, it's, you know, we're going to try to add something every year to make it harder, frankly.

Kristine Liwag (Analyst)

That's really helpful, Joe. And maybe a segue to SCI. I mean, your recent announcement, you're putting in $550 million in the form of 46 on-lease aircraft, and you've got the $2.5 billion in capital from Apollo and Deutsche Bank. And Deutsche Bank, you're now at $3 billion, and you know, you're now calling for $4 billion. I mean, what's driving the increase from the previous $3 billion? What's the appetite for further capital into your SCI? And lastly, you know, what would you define as successful for you and your partners for this investment?

Joe Adams (CEO)

Sure. So just on terms of the size, we originally, you know, indicated we were targeting $3 billion, and we found that the terms of the debt that we were able to obtain allowed for higher leverage, effectively, you know, close over 70%. So that gives us more capital to invest. And at the same time, we're seeing a very strong deal flow. It's now still February, and we have, you know, over $1 billion committed in investments, you know, already for SCI. So, and there's, it's a huge market opportunity. If you look at just the leasing market itself, lessors own, if you think there's 14,000 CFM56s, 737 NGs, and A320 CEOs, about half of those are owned by lessors, so 7,000, and roughly 20% of those trade in a given year.

There's been a little bit less because people held on longer due to the pandemic and the strong market environment, but we see that ramping up as new deliveries start to pick up, and lessors need to manage their average age of their fleet, so they have to sell older assets and buy newer assets. So we think that just the lessor market alone is north of $20 billion a year of investable assets. And then on top of that, you have airlines doing sale-leasebacks, and we've seen a number of airlines opting for sale-leasebacks because they have a lot of shop visits on engines coming up. And that is a perfect fit for us because we love shop visits. We're one of one in that category. There's no one else that I've ever met that likes a shop visit.

So we are very competitive on sale-leasebacks when airlines are looking to phase out, ultimately phase out the fleet, but also avoid engine shop visits. So we've got a number of deals lined up in that area. So, you know, we really think that, you know, there isn't sort of a dominant lessor in this asset class, which happens to be the largest by count in the world, and our goal is to become that. Now, what the investor wants ultimately is returns. And because we can manage engine exchanges more efficiently, we actually believe we can deliver a higher return and a lower risk. And it's when I always think about the investment business, that's the quadrant you're always trying to get to. And we have a product that no one else can offer that we believe generates higher returns and has lower risk for the investor.

So there's really nothing not to like about it.

Kristine Liwag (Analyst)

Great. Thank you, Joe. I'll leave it at that, and these are really helpful.

Joe Adams (CEO)

Thanks.

Operator (participant)

Thank you. Please stand by for our next question. Our next question comes from the line of Sheila Kahyaoglu with Jefferies. Your line is open.

Sheila Kahyaoglu (Analyst)

Good morning, and thank you, team. Congrats on the great quarter. Joe, maybe two questions for you, both on margins. First, if we could start off with, you know, your margins at 35%, if you could go through that a bit, because I think there's some misunderstanding on how you generate those margins and how sustainable they are. And then secondly, it seems like you've upped the bar once again with Slide 14, and you're talking about 35%-50% margin potential, EBITDA margins versus the 40% you've talked about previously. Can you walk us through the profit drivers over the course of 2025 and beyond, whether it's PMA adding, you know, $250 million, green time optimization, and just better productivity at your facilities as well? So if you could just touch on those two things.

Joe Adams (CEO)

Yes, sure. So when we think about the margins, we break it down into really four different categories, and many of which are additive to one another. But you start with repair. You know, when a typical MRO gets paid to fix something for someone, and generally they're earning, you know, 15% margin for repair work. It's like a mechanic. You pay the labor and you pay the parts. That's sort of the easy part. The second is green time optimization, which we've given an example in the slide deck, and David will walk through that in more detail. But that's something unique to us that no one else does. And as I mentioned, it's really, it's been practiced by major airlines, but if you have to own your fleet and have a maintenance facility, and we combine that so that we don't waste any available cycles, hours and cycles.

The third is a parts strategy, which is, you know, used serviceable material, buying used LLPs, and ultimately PMA, which is the, you know, which is the top of the mountain. And we have all of those going. We've been working on a parts strategy for many years, and we have a whole team of people, and that's all they do because a big part of any shop visit is parts. So, and ultimately we're moving more into piece part repair, which will be further upside on margins as we do more and more of our own repairs. And then lastly, in many cases, we provide a just-in-time product for the airline, and we help them avoid inducting that engine into a shop. We can do field service work. So we have a white glove just-in-time product.

So when you break the, you know, margin down that way, none of those components seem, you know, out of line. We're the only, you know, party that combines all those activities, though, and then when you think about the sustainability, we believe that this is sustainable in any market environment. The repair and the white glove service are value adds no matter what the economic climate is, and then numbers two and three, green time optimization and parts, we believe will grow. And the optimization model, we have a little chart in there. The more engines and the more modules you own, the better you get at optimization. It's just mathematical, so we believe there's further upside in the optimization.

You also mentioned, you know, the efficiency of your facility that we believe we can by standardizing the approach to engines, having mechanics only working on one engine, running it like a factory. We've been able to demonstrate productivity improvements so we can drive that to higher margins. And then lastly is, you know, PMA, which is not really in the numbers, but we believe that adds 5-10 percentage points to the margins when the full complement of PMA is available. It'll be somewhat a function of product mix, but we think 5-10 percentage points of upside is a reasonable number.

David will walk through the Green Time Optimization.

David Moreno (COO)

Hi, Sheila. Happy to walk everyone through page 13 of the presentation. So this example is meant to bring to life FTAI secret sauce, which is green time optimization. So our business is built to monetize every cycle in the engine through maintenance. So generally, the starting point is a group of unserviceable engines. So on the left, you'll see three engines that have become unserviceable. In this scenario, the engines are unserviceable because one of its modules has run out of life. These engines are either sourced through exchanging or leasing books, or we can acquire them unserviceable as well. In this example, the acquisition cost of these three engines is $6.5 million. Next, the engines are then broken down into separate modules. So just to recap, each engine is three modules, so it's a total of nine modules.

Maintenance is performed to address durability issues and ensure each of the modules can last until its limiter. In this scenario, we're investing $3.5 million to bring the total investment to these engines to $10 million. Finally, on the right, you create, you assemble the modules to create two serviceable engines with consistent life across each of its modules, and in this scenario, the third engine is not actually assembled. It's an engine for teardown that we can reuse for future builds via its parts. In total, the total value of these engines is now $16 million, so effectively, we created $6 million of additional value, so this example demonstrates the power of green time optimization, where one plus one is a lot more than two, and as the business continues to grow, the ability to optimize green time only increases.

Our strategic capital initiative will further enhance our ability to optimize green time because we'll have a committed backlog, and we'll be in higher volumes. And with insight on what that backlog looks like, we'll be more efficient into actually producing modules and engines more effectively. And I think we also illustrate on page 15 that exponential growth that Joe was talking about, which ties into scale in the business.

Sheila Kahyaoglu (Analyst)

Great. Thank you so much.

Andrew Merritt (Analyst)

Thanks.

Operator (participant)

Thank you. Please stand by for our next question. Our next question comes from the line of Josh Sullivan with The Benchmark Company. Your line is open.

Josh Sullivan (Analyst)

Good morning.

Joe Adams (CEO)

Good morning.

Josh Sullivan (Analyst)

Can we just dig into the new QuickTurn Europe? You know, why was this the right joint venture in Rome? You know, how should we think of the ramp? Maybe what percentage of your customers are already in Europe and what having a local facility might do for turnaround times or politics or even new capabilities for FTAI?

David Moreno (COO)

Sure. This is David. I'll take that question. So we're very excited to add Rome to our MRE network. And we're very excited because, as you pointed out, the first focus is geography. So about 40% of our customers today are in Europe, as well as Rome has great connectivity to the Middle East. And this specific facility actually has the Chinese certification, which then gives us access into China. The second reason is its capabilities. So this facility has a lot of similar capabilities to our Miami facility, where it is focused on CFM56. It has MRE maintenance capability, as well as it has access to a test cell. So our plan is to reactivate that test cell in the next two years and bring that test cell online, where it differs from the Miami facility that also has access to piece part repair.

Like all our maintenance facilities, they all have a deep history. This one in particular has a history with an airline, Alitalia. It has had investments with Lufthansa, which at one point had a partnership. So they developed a lot of capabilities, and that facility has been underutilized. So we're very excited to bring our volume to that facility and grow that. We believe we can start the MRE process immediately after acquisition, and then we can ramp up for the test cell and the piece part capability over time.

Josh Sullivan (Analyst)

Got it. Thank you for that. And then just as a second question, I'm going to touch the third rail here and just ask if there's any updates on the PMA approvals, but also maybe how has the PMA part approved late last year performed. How are lessors using that part, or is there any resistance?

Joe Adams (CEO)

Yeah, I'll take the second part first. The part approved last year is being installed in engines. And the prior part, which has been in service now over two years, has flown almost 100,000 hours in our engines and is performing extremely well. And ultimately, I mean, that's what matters with PMA is that the part is high quality and durable and lasts a long time. And that's what operators are, that's what we're seeing, and that's what operators are experiencing. So that's great news. In terms of the approval, again, we don't forecast when actual, you know, part numbers will be issued. We did say that there's been a substantial amount of progress made, and we're very close on the next part. But that's, you know, pretty much the same thing we said the last time, but it still stands to be true.

Josh Sullivan (Analyst)

Thank you for the time.

Joe Adams (CEO)

Yep.

Operator (participant)

Thank you. Please stand by for our next question. Our next question comes from the line of Giuliano Bologna with Compass Point. Your line is open.

Giuliano Bologna (Analyst)

Good morning, and congratulations on, you know, another great quarter and, you know, the continued execution fundamentally and also in, you know, expanding the runway for the business. One of the questions I was curious about asking you was, you know, a bit more of a macro question in terms of the evolution of the industry. But, you know, as a lot of the legacy operators come out of their midlife legacy assets, what do you think the impact will be on the industry? And, you know, will the industry become more fractured and fragmented as some of the larger legacy operators start to sell off some of those assets to, you know, smaller operators, midsize operators, you know, globally?

You know, I'm curious how that impacts you and the MRE business, and if it creates more opportunities over time for you to expand, you know, the MRE platform and even the SCI platform as well.

Joe Adams (CEO)

Yeah, no, that's a great question and it is an important dynamic in the evolution of that aircraft. And that today you have probably about 20% of the engines are operated by those large, you know, very large carriers that have maintenance facilities and are, you know, harder for us to get at because they don't outsource that function the way the others do. But over time, all of those aircraft are going to come out of those fleets, and they're going to, or not all of them, but almost all, and they will go into small and medium-sized airlines around the world, which will need our services. So you can think of, you probably have a 25%, you know, growth opportunity just on that, you know, phenomenon coming out of having those airplanes cascade down into second, third-tier operators, cargo operators, charter airlines all around the world.

That's a, you know, a very important industry dynamic, which has happened in every other aircraft platform. The other thing is, if you look at the macro on the industry spend, Aviation Week just put out, you know, new numbers on expected total spend on maintenance for V2500 and CFM56 engines remaining relatively constant at $22 billion through 2030. And so you've got another five years where they're forecasting the maintenance spend, which is our, you know, addressable market, is going to be relatively constant for those engines. And as we said, we're at 5% of that right now. And so we don't see any reason why we couldn't, you know, increase that market penetration to 20%-25% over time.

Giuliano Bologna (Analyst)

That's very helpful, and maybe a slight, you know, follow-up on that question, but I'd be curious when you think about that opportunity. Obviously, there's a lot of midlife aircraft that need to transact, and I'm curious now that you're scaling up the SCI programs, does that give you, you know, a very good opportunity to kind of intercept those assets that would normally, you know, maybe be sold to mid-tier operators and then maybe, you know, try to capture them and acquire them into the SCI vehicles and lease them out to the mid-tier operators and then recapture all the maintenance? You know, I'm curious if there's an opportunity for you to kind of, you know, intercept that cycle that typically happens and also become, you know, the lessor and the maintenance provider as part of that, you know, conversion cycle.

David Moreno (COO)

Yes, and the answer to that is yes, and I think that's only accelerated through the Strategic Capital Initiative where we're well capitalized and we're, you know, a fantastic buyer of these assets. Now we can do the entire service, which is we can own the aircraft via this Strategic Capital Initiative. We can offer leasing, and then we can do the maintenance, so it's the entire program, so that really does accelerate our ability to, you know, penetrate aircraft more rapidly.

Joe Adams (CEO)

And the other, I mean, the other important dynamic is from the eyes of the customer, which is the airline. They don't see any difference between FTAI Aviation and SCI. We are managing the entire relationship. And so from their point of view, that's where they're dealing with FTAI, and they're going to do, as many of them have said, they're going to do more engine business with us because we're also doing, you know, we're becoming one of their biggest owners of their fleet.

Giuliano Bologna (Analyst)

That's very helpful. And congratulations on, you know, all the success, you know, raising the vehicles and, you know, making everything happen, you know, quickly. I'll jump back in the queue and I'll move on from there. Thank you so much.

Joe Adams (CEO)

Thanks.

Operator (participant)

Thank you. Please stand by for our next question. Our next question comes from the line of Brandon Oglenski with Barclays. Your line is open.

Brandon Oglenski (Analyst)

Hi, good morning, Joe and team, and congrats on all the developments and obviously surviving the recent volatility here, so onwards and upwards.

Joe Adams (CEO)

Thank you.

Brandon Oglenski (Analyst)

Joe, I wonder if you could talk to your customer base, you know, the airlines and how they're thinking about the NGs and the A320, you know, prior generation family, because I think you just quoted something from Aviation Week that, you know, the expectation is that the maintenance is going to remain flat for the next five years. But just given how long it's taken Boeing to get back up and running, is this going to be a platform that runs longer than people think?

Joe Adams (CEO)

That's our bet, yes. And, you know, it's the two points you mentioned. There's this lack of new deliveries. There's a, you know, hole in people's, you know, expected growth from that that means they're going to hold on to these current generation assets longer. And then secondly, there's still, you know, durability issues on the new technology that are causing, you know, higher operating costs in the industry and a requirement in some cases where airlines, you know, have to have more aircraft of the new type to fly the same schedule as the old type because the engine is coming off wing, you know, earlier than they expected. So those are dynamics that I don't think are going to change anytime soon. So David can speak to the operators, but we think they're going to hold on.

David Moreno (COO)

Yeah. We're seeing a lot of airlines extend, let's say, five to eight years. So we're seeing that the longevity of this platform grow further and further. As Joe mentioned, these 737 NG and A320 CEOs are just a very durable product. So you know exactly what the costs are going to be. It's very predictable. So a lot of airlines are holding on to these aircraft as long as possible.

Brandon Oglenski (Analyst)

Appreciate that response. And then can you talk to your customer base during the quarter? I mean, I know you guys are doing, I think, a lot of one-off transactions, but how successful have you been getting folks to contract, you know, for forward engine events in the future?

David Moreno (COO)

Yeah. So it's a combination of, let's say, spot transactions, and then we have programs with a lot of large airlines. And these programs we're seeing as far as, let's say, three years. So for example, we'll have an airline come in to say, "We want to do fan exchanges for the next three years." So those are effectively contracted in our backlog. As we mentioned, the strategic capital initiative is going to give us a contractual backlog. So I think that's also going to give us greater access to the future. And those leases typically are anywhere from two to, let's say, seven years, with the average duration being around four years. So we're going to have a four-year duration backlog on those leases.

As far as customer acceptance, we've again, I think we've said this in a few calls, but every customer who has bought the product, who's tried the product, has come back to buy more. As I mentioned, it's a product that offers cost savings, time savings, and it's a predictable product versus shopping your engine.

Brandon Oglenski (Analyst)

Thank you.

Operator (participant)

Thank you. Please stand by for our next question. Our next question comes from the line of Hillary Cacanando with Deutsche Bank. Your line is open. Check to see if you're on mute, Hillary. Hillary, check to see if you're on mute.

Hillary Cacanando (Analyst)

Sorry. Sorry about that. I was on mute. I guess you could hear me now, right? So could you go over the structure of the strategic capital initiative? You know, for example, who owns the assets? Is it the special purpose vehicle? And who ultimately takes the residual value risk of those assets? Is it the LP investor of the special purpose vehicle that takes the residual value risk? And then if you could just talk, you know, about what type of returns the LP investor could expect from investing in those assets in the current market.

Joe Adams (CEO)

Sure. I can do everything except the last part. But in terms of the structure, just to lay it out sort of simply, if we assume it's $4 billion of total capital, approximately 70% of that will be provided by the debt providers that we announced yesterday. So call that $2.8 billion. Then $1.2 billion is the remaining number, which will be equity. And those are called a partnership. SCI is effectively a partnership. And there'll be third-party investors for 80% of that capital. And FTAI Aviation will put up 20% of that capital. So call it $240 million from FTAI Aviation. And the owner of that asset is the partnership. And the residual value risk of that asset lies with the partnership. FTAI Aviation is the general partner and will manage the partnership. So it will make investment decisions and asset management decisions.

As I mentioned, it will manage relationships with the airlines. The legal owner of it will be the partnership. We're not allowed to.

Hillary Cacanando (Analyst)

You got it. That's very helpful. The returns. Okay. Gotcha. That makes sense. And then I guess staying on SCI, I guess you'll, you know, probably get new revenue items tied to SCI, I guess you'll get, you know, management fees and incentive fees as well as earnings from minority interest. Could you just go over like how these fees work? You know, for example, what are the criteria to receive incentive fees? How much are you charging for management fees? And yeah, how they work. Thank you.

Angela Nam (CFO)

Yeah. Sure, Hillary, I'll take that. So high level, we expect to be a minority LP interest holder in the SCI. So on the balance sheet, you'll see it presented as one line as our investment. And then from earnings perspective from the partnership, we'll get pro rata equity earnings on the P&L. In addition to that, as you mentioned, we'll get a management fee for the assets that the partnership owns as a percentage. And in addition to that, based on hurdle calculation, we'll also be able to earn incentives.

Hillary Cacanando (Analyst)

So like what's the percentage you're charging for management fees? And like what do you have to meet some sort of criteria to get incentive fees?

Joe Adams (CEO)

Yes, but we're not disclosing the quantum at this point, but I would just say it's, you know, in line with market for this type of investment partnership.

Hillary Cacanando (Analyst)

Got it. Okay. Great. Thank you very much.

Joe Adams (CEO)

Thanks.

Operator (participant)

Thank you.

Please stand by for our next question. Our next question comes from the line of Ken Herbert with RBC Capital Markets. Your line is open.

Ken Herbert (Analyst)

Yeah. Hi, good morning, everybody.

Joe Adams (CEO)

Morning.

Ken Herbert (Analyst)

Joe, maybe just to start, you know, the Montreal facility was a headwind to margins in the Q3. Seems like you had some recovery there in the Q4. Where are you seeing with some of the legacy third-party contracts there? Have they completely rolled off? And how much of a headwind was that in the fourth quarter? And how do we think about that into 2025?

Joe Adams (CEO)

Yeah, there was still some of it in the Q4. I think it was, you know, it sort of impacted the margins by one to two percentage points. So we had, I think, a little under $20 million of legacy business. And it was a, you know, below 10% margin. So it was a drag on margins in the Q4. And as I said, without that, we would have been 35%-36% margins. It's the most, if not, you know, a lot of that is gone at the end of December. There still are a couple of tag ends, but it's probably, you know, it's less of an impact in Q1, and it should be totally gone by the end of Q1.

Ken Herbert (Analyst)

Okay. Perfect. And last quarter, you called out sort of the new customer additions. As you think about the sort of 600 fleet operators, can you comment on how many customers maybe you added in the Q4 or any assumptions sort of underlying penetration of obviously fleets you're not working with today from an MRE standpoint?

Joe Adams (CEO)

Yeah, it was. We're not going to do that every quarter. As I said, you can only be a new customer once. That's my fear of this. It gets harder. But it was double digits in terms of new customer adds. And, you know, we're now more focused, I think, on market penetration and market share and looking at that, you know, with $22 billion of spend, our revenues are about $1 billion in 2024. So we're under 5%. And, you know, we're targeting, you know, ultimately over a period of much higher market penetration. And so we're going to be measuring off, you know, more off of that on a go-forward basis. But there are, you know, as I said, there's 600 operators out there. People don't realize how fragmented.

Virtually every airline in the world owns or operates an A320 or a 737. It's like it's the core of everyone's, you know, fleet. They're highly reliable, dependable. They're great cargo airplanes. It's going to be a long, long tail on this fleet.

Ken Herbert (Analyst)

Yep. Perfect. I agree. Thank you.

Joe Adams (CEO)

Thanks.

Operator (participant)

Thank you. Please stand by for our next question. Our next question comes from the line of Miles Walton with Wolfe. Your line is open.

Miles Walton (Analyst)

Thanks. Good morning. Joe, I just wanted to clarify on the SCI. I think you said that you're moving on to your second partner in that relationship, and just curious if you can clarify, is the first partner you have currently at a larger equity stake than you are or just how far you are in closing that, you know, the 80% outside yourselves of the equity partnership?

Joe Adams (CEO)

So it's not just a partner. It was a first closing that we had at the end of December. And what I've said is that was a substantial amount of the total equity that we're seeking. It is greater than what we've invested, what we're planning to invest. And we are in the process of organizing a second closing, which we expect to occur in the next couple of months. It's possible that there may not be a third closing, but we could also have a third closing probably in the Q3 with some smaller investors to fill out the group. But that's our plan and where we are in the capital raise on the equity.

Miles Walton (Analyst)

Perfect. And then you mentioned $1 billion of investments that you're seeing now in one of your remarks. Is that in addition to the $550 million that you're seeding the portfolio with?

Joe Adams (CEO)

No, it includes that.

Miles Walton (Analyst)

Okay. And I mean, the other question I had is, and thanks for the color on the cash flow that you're presenting for 2025. In there is, I guess, replacement CapEx of $310 million. And I know that the SCI part of it is to go to a more capital-light approach. Is that replacement CapEx something you'd expect on a go-forward basis, or is that more replacement CapEx relative to the seeding of the aircraft you're putting in?

Joe Adams (CEO)

Yeah, it's meant to be that replacement. So it's not a go-forward number. And we look at the same thing last year. If you sell, you know, to be clear, if you sell $200 million of assets in order to keep the business going, you should buy $200 million of assets. That's the intellectually honest way to look at that number. And so we are selling assets from the balance sheet. And we would expect to invest some of that money in engines, some of the same types of opportunistic purchases we've done historically. We could buy aircraft that have engines that we might scrap the airframe and put the engines in our MRE. So there's a lot of deals that would not fit into SCI that we would continue to be eligible to do on, you know, at FTAI Aviation.

Miles Walton (Analyst)

And then last one, if I could, the Slide 13, David, you went through on the green time optimization. It didn't look like you were adding cycles in that exercise, but the margins were quite high. I'm just curious, how often are you not adding cycles and getting that kind of margin return, which is obviously a lot larger than the margins implied on the next slide?

David Moreno (COO)

Yes. That was an illustration where we were not adding cycles. We had cycles often. That's happening via performance restorations that we'll do on each of its modules. So every asset, every module is unique. And depending on what the build is, we're going to be doing different work on it, right? So we are adding cycles. And that's via performance restoration LLP replacements.

Miles Walton (Analyst)

Okay. Thanks again.

Joe Adams (CEO)

We're also doing repairs on those modules to make sure that they last as long as the limiter lasts, so there is work being done on it.

Miles Walton (Analyst)

Okay. Thank you.

Joe Adams (CEO)

Yep.

Operator (participant)

Thank you. Please stand by for our next question. Our next question comes from the line of Stephen Trent with Citi. Your line is open.

Stephen Trent (Analyst)

Yes. Thank you, everybody, and good morning to you. I believe that Angela had mentioned earlier that you guys received, I believe, $11 million or so from insurance claims from your equipment that got stuck in the Russian Federation. Could you refresh my memory sort of where the rest of your outstanding claims stand?

Joe Adams (CEO)

Yes. Good question and good positive developments on the insurance side. And we did receive $11 million in the Q4. We've also received over $22 million in the Q1 of this year already with one of our major insurers. And insurers are moving to settle now. And I think it, you know, once that starts, it typically accelerates because whoever's left that doesn't settle ends up with a big legal bill. So we expect the remaining claims to settle out fairly quickly. We wrote off in total back in 2022 about $88 million in assets that were lost in Russia. I think we've recovered $38 million to date. And we expect to recover more than the $88 million in total. And it should all be this year, I expect, I hope.

Stephen Trent (Analyst)

Okay. That's great color. Really appreciate that. And just one other, you know, thinking about the industry, I know there's very little detail at this point, what might happen with import tariffs here and what have you. But I asked one of your competitors a couple of weeks ago, do you think if tariffs do get enacted, that it could actually push airlines to do more aircraft and engine leasing rather than direct purchases? So sort of pushing the tariffs into whatever, a few more basis points of long-term leases versus, you know, the one-time impact of paying a tariff at the point of purchase. Maybe I'm oversimplifying this, but would just love to hear your thoughts. Thank you.

Joe Adams (CEO)

No, well, there's so many theories about what tariffs actually are going to do that that's one I hadn't even heard. But that we hope that happens. It's sort of good. If it's good for leasing, it's good for us. But it's really hard to know, you know, what impacts are going to hit yet. And an aerospace industry is going to be affected on new deliveries. So that to me is more immediate if it becomes more expensive to buy new aircraft and new parts, you know, we have an advantage there because we're not buying new.

Stephen Trent (Analyst)

That's super helpful. Thanks so much.

Operator (participant)

Thank you. Please stand by for our next question. Our next question comes from the line of Andrew Merritt with BTIG. Your line is open.

Andrew Merritt (Analyst)

Good morning, and thanks for the question. You know, to address the elephant in the room, I guess, you know, it's good to see the audit successfully concluded, but looking at the current accounting and the fact that leasing is becoming, you know, an increasingly smaller portion of mix, are there any plans to pivot, you know, the accounting model to more of a COGS format? I mean, you know, and away from the way you currently account for the, you know, acquisition of leasing equipment? Any color there? Super helpful.

Angela Nam (CFO)

Yeah. I'll take that, Andrew. Yes, I definitely think that the move that we already had started making at the end of 2024 and will continue to make in 2025 as more of our business is shifting over to the industrial manufacturing aerospace products business. So I think that's absolutely fair. It's not something that will change overnight. But as you've seen with the additional disclosures we've added in our filings and color that we've added on our cash flow presentation, I do think that that's something that we are working through diligently. And you should see more of operating outflow related to our purchases over the next year.

Joe Adams (CEO)

Our goal is to convert, you know, the whole company to industrial accounting, and hopefully we can do that once the aerospace products business is more than half the EBITDA of the company.

Andrew Merritt (Analyst)

Got it. Got it. Super helpful. And then I guess, you know, another one for both of you. I mean, looking at the EBITDA outlook for the coming year, I mean, how should we expect it to play out? What would the cadence look like? And maybe what are some of the moving pieces that might drive things upward or downward as we go through the balance of the year?

Joe Adams (CEO)

If you look back over the last, what, two years, it's, I mean, you can kind of use a ruler. But it's not, you know, there's no, we don't see any change in the cadence.

Andrew Merritt (Analyst)

So the typical, you know, seasonality in the Q1 then kind of contributing to a step up through the balance of the next three?

Joe Adams (CEO)

You know, there's not. We haven't detected any seasonality really in this business. There's historically. There was an argument that airlines tried to avoid doing maintenance in the Q3 of the year. And they tried to do it in the Q1. But we provide something that is an immediate, just-in-time solution. And if an airline needs an engine in August, we'll have an engine in August for them. So they don't have any downtime if they use our product. So, so far, we haven't, you know, and obviously we've been on a pretty rapid growth rate. We're up, you know. EBITDA is up 100% year over year. So we don't see, you know, an effect of seasonality in the business at this point.

David Moreno (COO)

And I think we're more focused on overall production, right? So I think we outlined in 2025 for targets an average of 100 modules per quarter in the Montreal facility. So we're extremely focused on ramping up Montreal. We finished the year at Q4 at 75 modules. I think that's in the earnings supplement. So that is our focus, right? And as we mentioned, really kind of have three initiatives around ramping up, right? It's specialization where we have the workforce that touches a specific module, let's say an LPT module, that they're going to do that all day, every day. So that's going to bring up a lot of efficiency. The second is standardization, which means that we have a doctrine on work scopes, meaning when we get modules, we know exactly what to do depending on what we find.

Then number three is we've launched, since we've acquired in September, we've launched an incentive program for employees that's based on quality and production metrics. So for us, we're, you know, very focused on production at that facility as well as Miami. I think Rome is going to increase the, you know, capacity that we have overall in the facility and in our MRE network.

Andrew Merritt (Analyst)

Excellent. Awesome. Thanks all for the comments. I'll jump back in the queue.

Operator (participant)

Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, at this time, I would now like to turn the call back over to Alan for closing remarks.

Alan Andreini (Head of Investor Relations)

Thank you, Tawanda. Thank you all for participating in today's conference call. We look forward to updating you after Q1.

Operator (participant)

Ladies and gentlemen, that concludes today's conference call. Thank you for your participation. You may now disconnect.