Graham - Q2 2023
November 7, 2022
Transcript
Operator (participant)
Greetings. Welcome to Graham Corporation's second quarter fiscal year 2023 financial results conference call. At this time, all participants are in a listen-only mode. The question and answer session will follow the formal presentation. If anyone should require operator assistance during the conference, please press star zero from your telephone keypad. Please note, this conference is being recorded. At this time, I'll turn the conference over to Deborah Pawlowski, Investor Relations. Ms. Pawlowski, you may now begin.
Deborah Pawlowski (Director Investor Relations)
Thank you, Rob, and good morning, everyone. We certainly appreciate your time today and your interest in Graham Corporation. Joining me here are Daniel J. Thoren, our President and Chief Executive Officer, and Chris Thome, our Chief Financial Officer. You should have a copy of the second quarter fiscal year 2023 financial results, which we released this morning before the market. Also for your information and posted on our website are slides that will accompany today's conversation as well as as supplemental information that provides greater detail regarding sales, bookings, and backlog by industry and geography on our website. Those can be found at ir.grahamcorp.com. I will first have Dan and Chris do a formal presentation, after which we will then open the lines for Q&A. If you'll turn to slide two in that deck that I mentioned, I'll review the safe harbor statement.
You should be aware that we may make some forward-looking statements during the formal discussions as well as during the Q&A session. These statements apply to future events that are subject to risks and uncertainties, as well as other factors that could cause actual results to differ materially from what is stated here today. These risks and uncertainties and other factors are provided in the earnings release as well as with other documents filed with Securities and Exchange Commission. These documents can be found on our website, ir.grahamcorp.com, or at sec.gov. During today's call, we will also make some Non-GAAP financial measure disclosures. We believe these measures will be useful in evaluating our performance. You should not consider the presentation of this additional information in isolation or as a substitute for results prepared in accordance with GAAP.
We have provided the reconciliation of Non-GAAP measures with comparable GAAP measures in the tables that accompany today's release and the slides. With that, if you would please advance to slide three, I'll turn the call over to Dan to begin. Dan?
Daniel Thoren (President and CEO)
Thank you, Debbie, and good morning, everyone. I am pleased to report that we are tracking to plan. Our results are as we expected, and we are on track to achieve our fiscal year guidance. Our second quarter was a big bookings quarter with over $90 million in new orders. Approximately $70 million was attributed to our defense market and another $20 million to space and refinery petrochem. All of these newly booked orders have better margins than in the past. We were able to increase pricing on both our Navy and energy jobs. We are seeing continued strong demand in our refinery petrochem aftermarket business. We have not seen an increase in commercial capital equipment orders yet, but our customers tell us they expect those orders to come in calendar 2023.
Execution is improving through continual improvement in the short term and with capital investments for the long term. Both business units are working hard to improve manufacturing processes and seeing improved cost and yield because of the effort. This quarter, our board approved the acquisition of an automated welding machine, a new mill-turn machining tool, a pump test rig, and a facility expansion. The automated welding machine will reduce cost and rework on some of our heat exchangers we are making in Batavia. The new mill-turn machine tool will significantly reduce manufacturing time on production torpedo programs, while the facility expansion will enable a higher production delivery rate for these programs. The pump test rig will be used to demonstrate life cycle for high compliance production pumps that we are making in Arvada.
As we clear the low margin jobs through the year, we expect profitability to continue improvement. For the quarter, given the product mix, GAAP loss was about $200,000, and EBITDA was $1.5 million. With that, I'd like to hand it over to Chris Thome for a discussion of our financial performance.
Chris Thome (CFO)
Thank you, Dan, and good morning, everyone. I will begin my presentation on slide four. As Dan mentioned, our second quarter performance was in line with our expectations. Sales were $38.1 million, up 12% over last year's second quarter and 6% over the trailing first quarter. I would like to point out that this growth was all organic as both periods included a full quarter from Barber-Nichols. Year-over-year growth included $3 million from the space industry where we are building relationships with many of the key commercial players. In fact, during the quarter, we were recognized by Virgin Orbit as one of the critical suppliers which we believe is a testament to the value our solutions and engineering services bring to that industry.
During the quarter, we continued to see strong growth in the refining and petrochemical commercial aftermarket, which was up 36%. This is significant in that we view aftermarket sales as a leading indicator of future capital investments by our customers. As Dan mentioned, we expect the next capital investment cycle to begin in calendar year 2023. Offsetting these increases were sales to the defense market, which were down $5 million compared with the second quarter of last year, which is a record quarter for this business. The change was all about project timing, reflecting the significant level of defense industry business we have in our backlog. As noted in our release today, we delivered an additional first article unit for a critical U.S. Navy program and are on schedule to ship the remaining first article units by the end of the first quarter in fiscal 2024.
For the quarter, sales in the U.S. increased 16% to $30.3 million and represented 80% of our sales, while international sales of $7.8 million accounted for 20% of total sales and were consistent with the prior year. The mix of U.S. to international sales has shifted over the last couple of years, given the growth in our Navy business as well as the addition of Barber-Nichols, which sells primarily into the U.S. Gross profit and margin improved over the prior year period on a better mix of higher-margin projects, namely space, commercial aftermarket, and new energy, as well as better execution and pricing. The decline sequentially was as expected and was due to pivots on projects made in the first quarter to keep production moving that resulted in that quarter benefiting from a better mix of business.
SG&A expense for the second quarter was $5.3 million, consistent with the prior year. However, as a percentage of sales, SG&A expense improved to 14% compared to 15% in the prior year as we maintained strong cost discipline while growing our top line. The net result was near breakeven net income for the quarter, adjusted earnings per share of $0.03, and adjusted EBITDA of $1.5 million. Turning to slide five, you can see our capitalization. Net debt at quarter end was $5 million, up slightly from $4.2 million at the end of the trailing first quarter due to the timing of milestone payments. We have instituted strong cash management discipline throughout the organization, which includes actively managing working capital and operating expenses while increasing oversight of capital expenditures to ensure proper returns.
As a result, capital expenditures in the quarter were $0.9 million, and we have reduced our guidance for CapEx spend for fiscal 2023 to be approximately $3 million-$4 million. The investments that we are making that Dan highlighted earlier total approximately $4 million and will occur over the next four quarters, with each project having a greater than 20% IRR. Turning to slide six, as previously announced, we had record orders during the quarter of $91.5 million, driven by repeat orders for critical US Navy programs. We believe these repeat orders validate the investments we made over the last year and our customers' confidence in our execution. We also expect these repeat orders will be at higher margins through increased pricing and better execution.
In addition to strong defense sales, we had $13 million in refining and petrochemical orders, which related to continued strong commercial aftermarket demand, and $4 million of orders each from space and other commercial, which is comprised primarily of new energy. The orders for the quarter resulted in a book-to-bill ratio of 2.4x and reflects the breadth and diversity of our customer base. If you turn to slide seven, you can see that these orders drove a 20% increase in backlog from the sequential first quarter and now sits at a record $313 million. We believe 40%-45% of this backlog will convert within the next twelve months. Most of the backlog expected to convert beyond twelve months is for the defense industry, primarily to the U.S. Navy.
Defense now comprises 79% of our backlog and is significant in that it provides greater visibility and stability to our business. Slide eight provides our guidance for fiscal 2023. Our first half results were in line with our expectations and gives us confidence we will be able to achieve our full year guidance. As such, we are reaffirming our expectations of revenue and adjusted EBITDA growth for the year. Revenue is expected to be between $135 million-$150 million, which implies top line growth at the midpoint of 16%. From a margin perspective, we are looking for a gross margin of 16%-17% and expect SG&A to be 15%-16% of sales.
The net result is that we expect adjusted EBITDA to be in the range of $6.5 million-$9.5 million, which equates to an adjusted EBITDA margin of 5%-6%. As discussed, year-to-date fiscal 2023 results were impacted by our larger, lower-margin first article U.S. Navy projects. We believe this negative impact will continue through the first quarter of 2024 when the last of these larger first article projects are expected to be completed. I should also point out that the company's third quarter is typically impacted by lower labor hours due to the holidays. With that, operator, please open the phone lines, and Dan and I will be happy to take your questions.
Operator (participant)
Thank you. We'll now be conducting a question-and-answer session. If you'd like to ask a question today, please press star one from your telephone keypad, and a confirmation tone will indicate your line is in the question queue. You may press star two if you'd like to remove your question from the queue. For participants using speaker equipment, it may be necessary to pick up your handset before pressing the star keys. One moment please, while we poll for questions, and once again, that's star one. Thank you. Thank you. Our first question comes from the line of Theodore O'Neill with Litchfield Hills Research. Please proceed with your question.
Theodore O'Neill (CEO and Senior Analyst)
Thank you. Congratulations on beating the estimates for the quarter.
Chris Thome (CFO)
Thanks, Theo.
Daniel Thoren (President and CEO)
Thanks, Theo.
Theodore O'Neill (CEO and Senior Analyst)
Yep. In your opening remarks, you talked about some new equipment that you're ordering. What kind of lead times are you looking at for that? Or is it already on its way in?
Daniel Thoren (President and CEO)
Yeah. Lead times for those machine tools typically are around a year. As Chris had mentioned, we're kind of expecting that capital expenditure to go over the next four years. We put money down
Chris Thome (CFO)
four quarters.
Daniel Thoren (President and CEO)
Four quarters. Thank you. We put money down at the beginning to get the order going and then pay for it when it's delivered. Yeah, there's some things that are relatively quick, and then most of that capital equipment ends up being kind of a year long.
Theodore O'Neill (CEO and Senior Analyst)
Right. Can you talk about whether or not, you know, what you're seeing in terms of inflation or supply chain issues in your business?
Daniel Thoren (President and CEO)
Yeah, certainly. With inflation, we are seeing increased prices from our suppliers, and we're able to build those into our bids fairly well. Suppliers are continuing to kind of hold short validity dates for their material, and we're just passing those on to our customers. I'm thinking that pretty much all customers know exactly where we are with supply chain, and we haven't got any pushback for needing to revisit material pricing, for instance, when we accept orders. It may be a little bit better, but supply chain is still a little bit challenged.
Theodore O'Neill (CEO and Senior Analyst)
Okay. I noticed that under the product line sales, the space segment was up strongly this year over last. Is that a market share gain, or is the pie just getting bigger?
Daniel Thoren (President and CEO)
Probably a little bit of both. We're seeing some activity continuing in launch type activities. We're also seeing some more orders in the thermal management systems for communication satellites. Both of those continue to grow as a market, and we're able to participate in those.
Theodore O'Neill (CEO and Senior Analyst)
Okay. Thanks very much.
Daniel Thoren (President and CEO)
Yep.
Operator (participant)
Thank you. Our next question is from the line of Andrew Shapiro with Lawndale Capital. Please proceed with your question.
Andrew Shapiro (President and a Portfolio Manager)
Hi. Thank you. A few questions here regarding right now the low profitability or break-even first article units. These are the units for the sub programs, right?
Daniel Thoren (President and CEO)
Correct. We have one for the sub program and then one for the carrier program. Yeah.
Andrew Shapiro (President and a Portfolio Manager)
Are both of those suffering presently from low margins because these are the first article units?
Daniel Thoren (President and CEO)
Yes. Yep.
Andrew Shapiro (President and a Portfolio Manager)
Okay.
Daniel Thoren (President and CEO)
They are.
Andrew Shapiro (President and a Portfolio Manager)
When you refer to the first article units, will be done in their delivery through Q1 fiscal 2024, I think that's correct me if I'm wrong is the June 2023 quarter. Is that right?
Daniel Thoren (President and CEO)
Yeah, that's correct, Andrew.
Andrew Shapiro (President and a Portfolio Manager)
Okay. This is first article for both the carriers and the subs in terms of that kind of quarterly completion?
Daniel Thoren (President and CEO)
Yep, exactly.
Andrew Shapiro (President and a Portfolio Manager)
Okay. Now the low margin on those, remind me, I think I asked this one or two quarters ago when I first got in, interested in the company. These are firm-fixed-price contracts and that you know you bid on, and of course, you know you learn from experience, and that's why there'll be better margins the next time. Or were these some type of R&D with you know, cost-plus in them?
Daniel Thoren (President and CEO)
No. They are firm fixed price contracts.
Andrew Shapiro (President and a Portfolio Manager)
Okay.
Daniel Thoren (President and CEO)
that are bid competitively upfront. You go through all of the learning, and then.
Andrew Shapiro (President and a Portfolio Manager)
Right.
Daniel Thoren (President and CEO)
When you bid them again, you basically get to bid what your actual hours were expended in the first article. Your pricing actually improves for the second one.
Andrew Shapiro (President and a Portfolio Manager)
Got it. The automated welding equipment to be installed and activated in Batavia, which I think is where you're doing much of the first article work and the second article work. When is that equipment expected to be installed and activated?
Daniel Thoren (President and CEO)
That has, like a year lead time to get it in, get it installed and get it operational. We would expect probably fall of next year is the timeframe that we'll be able to bring that online in our production process.
Andrew Shapiro (President and a Portfolio Manager)
Okay. When you bid out, that we'll call it the second articles or the second wave of contracts that have now gone into the backlog.
Uh-huh.
Was that on any assumption of the productivity enhancement this new equipment would provide, or that will be an added benefit and bonus?
Daniel Thoren (President and CEO)
Yeah. If we're successful with the implementation of the automated welding equipment, it will reduce both labor hours that we put into the jobs as well as rework hours that we would have with a manual process. It should improve margins from where we bid those jobs.
Andrew Shapiro (President and a Portfolio Manager)
Awesome. All right, thank you.
Daniel Thoren (President and CEO)
Yep. Thanks, Andrew.
Operator (participant)
Our next question is from the line of Brett Kearney with Gabelli Funds. Please proceed with your question.
Brett Kearney (Portfolio Manager and Research Analyst)
Hi, guys. Good morning. Thanks for taking my question, and congrats on the continued execution.
Daniel Thoren (President and CEO)
Thanks, Brett.
Chris Thome (CFO)
Thanks, Brett.
Brett Kearney (Portfolio Manager and Research Analyst)
Two quick ones. Great to see growth, I mean, really all areas of the business, but particularly on the new energy side. Curious, you know, there's so much happening in some of these spaces. The opportunities you're seeing and Graham and Barber-Nichols are best suited for, do those primarily fall kind of within the U.S. geographically, or how are you thinking about kinda the global opportunity set across some of those areas?
Daniel Thoren (President and CEO)
Yeah. Very much right now, they're all domestic. So we're seeing biodiesel applications both new and existing. There's some good activity on the hydrogen side in the hydrogen production, transportation, distribution, fueling type of area. Then there's continued to be some good activity on the small modular nuclear side. That ends up being very much R&D where the other two are more on the production side. Yeah, some pretty interesting opportunities and again, all domestic at this point.
Brett Kearney (Portfolio Manager and Research Analyst)
Great. It sounds like you've identified some really attractive internal investment opportunities that are moving forward. I was wondering, you know, just as part of kind of the process overhauls you put in place at the organization, if you could talk about, you know, how these investments kind of bubbled up and kind of how you guys are looking at you know, identifying and going after some of these attractive internal investment opportunities in the future.
Daniel Thoren (President and CEO)
Yeah. Pretty much all the really good ideas come from the floor. People that are, you know, struggling with a particular process or challenged with a piece of equipment that, you know, they can see that there's a better way. We get some really good ideas from folks that are on the production floor, just kinda dealing with it every day. Certainly there's some manufacturing engineering and design engineering type ideas that come through too. Yeah, we're pretty excited, and that's really kind of why I wanted to highlight those in my opening statement.
In that, we're able to see some of those opportunities, start investing in them today, don't expect immediate return, but pretty quick return, you know, in the next couple of years that really will improve our efficiency and throughput, and enable us to accelerate on the revenue side. Pretty excited about all of them. It's just that continual improvement mindset that both businesses have, that's starting to come through.
Chris Thome (CFO)
I think I would add to that, Brett, is that, you know, one of the projects is capacity expansion as well. One of our defense programs, which is seeing some really nice growth, we needed to take on additional space and purchase some new equipment as well to accommodate their request for volume.
Brett Kearney (Portfolio Manager and Research Analyst)
Terrific. Thanks so much, guys.
Daniel Thoren (President and CEO)
Yep. Thank you, Brett.
Operator (participant)
Thank you. The next question is from the line of John Bair with Ascend Wealth Advisors. Please proceed with your question.
John Bair (President)
Thanks. Good morning.
Daniel Thoren (President and CEO)
Hey, John.
Chris Thome (CFO)
Good morning, John.
John Bair (President)
It appears that your cost of goods sold rate of change is starting to slow down. Am I reading that right? Is that something that you think is going to continue?
Chris Thome (CFO)
If you recall from last quarter, John, we expected the first quarter benefited from a really good mix, and we did expect that gross profit percentage to come down in the current quarter. I would say, you know, the margin for this quarter was in line with our expectation. We still would continue to see some impact from these first article jobs in the second half of the year, but as those jobs make their way through our backlog, we would expect our margin to improve after that.
John Bair (President)
Okay. Another question was, so as you move through these projects and get into the second tier, if you will, going forward or looking out over a couple of years, what do you think the mix could be on winning new project orders as you know, winning first bid to where the order backlog as it grows, becomes more of a mix of repeat business, if you will, for existing projects that as opposed to, you know, maybe getting new bid wins that would require this first article learning curve?
Daniel Thoren (President and CEO)
Sure. If we kind of focus on the defense for now, we are building up some nice backlog of repeat work. Necessarily we would expect that repeat work is a higher percentage of any new first articles. We will be bidding additional new first article jobs in the future because that's where you know the growth in outyears really comes. As a percentage of our overall business, it should be a smaller percentage going forward.
John Bair (President)
Okay. Very good. Thank you very much.
Daniel Thoren (President and CEO)
Yep. Thanks, John.
Chris Thome (CFO)
Thank you.
Operator (participant)
As a reminder, to ask a question today, you may press star one from your telephone keypad. The next question is from the line of Gary Schwab with Valley Forge Capital Management. Please proceed with your question.
Gary Schwab (President and Analyst)
Yeah, hi. Thanks for taking my call.
Daniel Thoren (President and CEO)
Thank you, Gary.
Gary Schwab (President and Analyst)
Nice defense orders. Was there any first article new business included in this big defense order that you just got this quarter?
Daniel Thoren (President and CEO)
No, it was all repeat.
Gary Schwab (President and Analyst)
Okay, as far as cutting back on CapEx for the year, you said $3 million-$4 million. I think last quarter you were saying $4 million-$5.5 million. What in your plan is being deferred, if anything?
Chris Thome (CFO)
I would say at this point, it was just a discretionary spend. We've been trying to be prudent as we you know work our way you know through these projects. We are trying to be prudent with the spend given the you know the cash flow that we were generating. But we expect you know the CapEx to pick up as our cash flow expands. Basically, we're only spending you know what we're generating from a cash flow perspective.
Gary Schwab (President and Analyst)
Okay.
Chris Thome (CFO)
Certainly not putting these projects behind in any way. These are a little bit larger projects, you know, that had to go through a full financial evaluation. I think we said at the beginning of the year that we thought they would be in the second half, more towards the second half of the year. Those are right on schedule.
Gary Schwab (President and Analyst)
Okay. Your planned expansion at Barber-Nichols and the new equipment that you mentioned, that's all in this three to four?
Chris Thome (CFO)
Correct.
Gary Schwab (President and Analyst)
That hasn't even been paid for yet?
Chris Thome (CFO)
A portion of it, because it's as we said, it's gonna go through the next four quarters. But a portion of it is built into that $3 million-$4 million, yes.
Gary Schwab (President and Analyst)
Okay. Can you give us an update on Arc & Flame? I think you said that for November you're gonna have a big graduation month. What about your next class? Have you been able to attract any more experienced welders since the last call?
Chris Thome (CFO)
Yeah. You have it right on there, Gary. Our next graduating class is in November. We have been seeing an uptick with some experienced hires. It, you know, but it is a continual battle for sure. You know, we're not out of the woods yet. We've made some good progress. We're able to kind of maintain a level workforce right now. We do expect to bump up once that, you know, that class graduates in November. It still, you know, it still remains a daily battle.
Daniel Thoren (President and CEO)
The next Arc & Flame class will start in January, if I remember right. Yeah.
Chris Thome (CFO)
Yep.
Gary Schwab (President and Analyst)
Okay. Are you graduating the full class, or are you getting dropouts, or what's happening there?
Chris Thome (CFO)
You know, I would say through the normal. We've had a few dropouts, but that's. You know, we go through some rigorous testing. You know, some don't quite make it through, unfortunately. But we've retained. I think we started with 11, and we're down to 10 now, so we've not too bad.
Gary Schwab (President and Analyst)
Okay. You're keeping the bulk anyway. In June, you were running a full first shift but only a small second shift. Has that improved much, and do you have any idea when the second shift would fill?
Daniel Thoren (President and CEO)
Yeah. It's actually improved quite a bit. Essentially what happened is, again, listened to employees about what they want. We floated the idea of a 4/10 kind of arrangement where they could get their 40 hours in four days, and then have a longer weekend. We rolled that out on second shift. It turns out that people really like that. We got a lot more people onto second shift than we had before. It's getting close to being a full second shift. Now we've got availability on first shift to hire and fill there too. Good progress on kind of balancing the shifts at this point.
Gary Schwab (President and Analyst)
Okay. That's good to hear. Finally, just, with the recent political conflicts between the U.S. and China, is it having any deleterious effects on your China business outlook?
Daniel Thoren (President and CEO)
We haven't seen anything to date. You know, that China business can run in the $5 million-$12 million range. It has been a little bit lower recently. We haven't seen any bad effects from that conflict thus far. Certainly keeping our eyes and ears open and trying to understand, you know, what's gonna happen there. It ends up being a relatively small piece of our overall business. Not too concerned about it, but certainly watching it for sure.
Gary Schwab (President and Analyst)
Okay. I just have one last one. You said last quarter that there was gonna be some low margin business that didn't come in in Q1, and you thought it was gonna eventually come in. Did that all come in? Did that go out in Q2?
Daniel Thoren (President and CEO)
Yeah. We had some lower margin business that was in for the India market that cleared. Probably 90% of it cleared in the second quarter. We felt like that would be a little bit of a drag and it was for the second quarter, but that appears to have cleared. I think the last item shipped like the first or second week of November.
Gary Schwab (President and Analyst)
Okay. That was the biggest reason for your lower margin in the second quarter?
Daniel Thoren (President and CEO)
Um-
Gary Schwab (President and Analyst)
Part of it.
Daniel Thoren (President and CEO)
I don't know that I'd characterize it as the biggest, but certainly.
Gary Schwab (President and Analyst)
Not the biggest, but yeah.
Daniel Thoren (President and CEO)
Yep. Yep.
Gary Schwab (President and Analyst)
Okay. All right. Thanks very much.
Daniel Thoren (President and CEO)
Yep. Thanks, Gary.
Operator (participant)
Our next question is from the line of John Deysher with Pinnacle. Please just use your question.
John Deysher (President and Portfolio Manager)
Good morning, everyone.
Daniel Thoren (President and CEO)
Hey, John.
John Deysher (President and Portfolio Manager)
I was happy to see the backlog up so significantly. I just wanna make sure I understand the nature of that backlog. Does that backlog, and I think you said 80% was defense-oriented, which is about $250 million. Is any of that $250 million of defense backlog, does that include any new first article projects?
Daniel Thoren (President and CEO)
No.
John Deysher (President and Portfolio Manager)
Okay. Does it include any second article projects?
Daniel Thoren (President and CEO)
Yeah. Certainly, there's in our backlog the first articles that we've been talking through that aren't complete that ship through June 2023. Some second articles that also are in that timeframe. Yeah, it does include lower margin stuff, and that's what we had talked about earlier in the call.
John Deysher (President and Portfolio Manager)
Right. That part is clear. What would be a rough percentage of the backlog that is going to be the higher margin second article projects?
Deborah Pawlowski (Director Investor Relations)
John, we announced the $70 million in order or the $90 million in orders that we got, which was a record order level, of which $70 million was related to defense.
John Deysher (President and Portfolio Manager)
Oh. Yeah.
Deborah Pawlowski (Director Investor Relations)
That's the second article. That's all repeat orders.
Daniel Thoren (President and CEO)
Yeah.
Deborah Pawlowski (Director Investor Relations)
from the Navy.
Daniel Thoren (President and CEO)
That's the higher margin, better pricing, orders that are in our backlog for sure.
Deborah Pawlowski (Director Investor Relations)
That's what caused the backlog to step up as much as it did.
John Deysher (President and Portfolio Manager)
Okay. All right.
Daniel Thoren (President and CEO)
Yeah. Thanks.
John Deysher (President and Portfolio Manager)
Sorry, go ahead.
Daniel Thoren (President and CEO)
No, I was just thanking Debbie. I didn't understand the question, and she helped me answer it there.
John Deysher (President and Portfolio Manager)
Okay. Yeah. Debbie's good at that. $70 million is the total of the second article projects embedded in the backlog.
Daniel Thoren (President and CEO)
Now there's more than that because there's a carrier program also that will have better margins. Yeah, I wouldn't characterize it as just the $70 million in the backlog. It's more than that. That backlog also includes quite a bit from Barber-Nichols, right? There's in the neighborhood of $100 million for Barber-Nichols, and a big portion of that is repeat production on some of their programs also. We're actually very happy about the backlog that we've got, and we're encouraged that it's good margin and that we can continue to improve and better that going forward.
John Deysher (President and Portfolio Manager)
Okay, great. When does the second article backlog start to become produced? When do you-
Daniel Thoren (President and CEO)
We're actually producing in Batavia second article equipment now. On the carrier side, we've ordered material for some of the submarine programs, and then Barber-Nichols is absolutely in the production of follow-on orders that have good margins associated with them. Right now, think about it as kinda clearing the lower margin jobs through June of next year, and then what we have in backlog is actually pretty good stuff.
John Deysher (President and Portfolio Manager)
Okay. Great. That, that's helpful. Thank you.
Daniel Thoren (President and CEO)
Mm-hmm.
Operator (participant)
Thank you. At this time, we've reached the end of the question and answer session. I'll turn the call over to management for closing remarks.
Daniel Thoren (President and CEO)
Thank you very much. In closing, I'll just say that we're very excited about the future, Graham. I am especially grateful to the entire Graham Corporation team for their commitment, their resiliency, and their contributions to delivering on the quarter and to driving our future potential. Thanks for your interest in our company. Hope you have a great day and look forward to talking to you again.
Operator (participant)
This will conclude today's conference. You may disconnect your lines at this time. Thank you for your participation.