Logitech International - Q4 2023
May 2, 2023
Transcript
Operator (participant)
Good morning and good afternoon. Welcome to Logitech's video call to discuss our financial results for the fourth quarter and full year of fiscal 2023. Joining us today are Bracken Darrell, our President and CEO, and Chuck Boynton, our CFO. As a reminder, during this call, we will make forward-looking statements, including with respect to future operating results under the safe harbor of the Private Securities Litigation Reform Act of 1995. We're making these statements based on our views only as of today. Our actual results could differ materially. We undertake no obligation to update or revise any of these statements. We will also discuss non-GAAP financial results, and you can find a reconciliation between non-GAAP and GAAP results and information about our use of non-GAAP measures and factors that could impact our financial results and forward-looking statements in our press release and in our filings with the SEC.
These materials, as well as our prepared remarks and slides, and a webcast of this call are all available at the investor relations page of our website. We encourage you to review these materials carefully. Unless noted otherwise, comparisons between periods are year-over-year and in constant currency and net sales. This call is being recorded and will be available for a replay on our website. I will now turn the call over to Bracken. Bracken?
Bracken Darrell (President and CEO)
Thank you, Nate. Thanks all of you for joining us. Today I am joining you from New York. This really is a hybrid call. I know Chuck is in California, and Nate, I believe you're in Dallas, so we're really all over. About 60 days ago, we provided an overview of our business and our outlook for the coming fiscal year. Chuck will cover the details. Big picture, we ended this year within our latest outlook, and the outlook for the, for the first half of first fiscal year 2024 remains unchanged. Most of the macroeconomic and geopolitical issues that impacted our fiscal year 2023 results continue. Central banks are raising rates to combat inflation. Consumer confidence remains lower, and overall demand from enterprises remains tepid.
As I look at factors that are more directly impacting our business, it's a mixed bag. There are positive signs. The dollar is weakening, thankfully. Shipping rates, lead times, and our reliance on expedited shipping are nearing pre-pandemic levels. Promotional levels are normalizing, and supply chains appear to be a problem of the past. However, industry layoffs continue. The way companies handle return to the office continues to be uncertain, and we're not yet seeing refresh cycles kick in for products that were in high demand during the pandemic. As we said last quarter, these conflicting economic signals create an environment with low visibility and a bias towards managing our business conservatively. Adjusting our business to meet the market opportunity is something that is not new to us.
We adapted throughout the pandemic when we faced supply chain, logistics, and manufacturing challenges, we're adapting now to reshape our organization for more nimble decision-making, faster product design cycles, meeting evolving customer needs quickly and fluidly, and improving our speed to market. While acknowledging the macro headwinds, we ended Q4 in a solid position. Our sales teams closed a number of meaningful customer deals. We closed one with Snowflake, for example, and representing multiple industries as well as education and government contracts. We released 52 new products in fiscal year 2023. While it takes time to scale these launches, it demonstrates a commitment to product innovation. We won a record number of design awards. The latest number is over 160 for the full year, 82 in the fourth quarter alone.
Innovation is the key engine of this business, and it's firing on all cylinders. Our commitment to sustainability is absolutely unwavering. In fact, we now have nearly 45% of our products with carbon labels. I believe there's no other company of our size or bigger near this level. We quickly reduced operating expenses to match the revenue reality. Revenue decline and OpEx reductions were down equally on a percentage basis for the year. As I indicated last quarter and at our Analyst and Investor Day, our fiscal year 2023 results were disappointing. As I always say to myself, "It's time to draw a line behind our heels, learn from the past, but move forward," and that's exactly what we're doing. We remain committed to the long-term growth trends, markets, strategy, and business model we have in place.
Looking ahead, you should expect us to operate the business in a disciplined manner consistent with what we've demonstrated over the last few quarters. We will continue to adjust our expenses in line with the market. We'll continue to invest in product development. We have plans to introduce a whole series of new products across gaming, video collaboration, and keyboards and mice in the quarters to come. We will continue to improve and refine our global go-to-market capabilities. I'm confident that the big, durable trends we've been highlighting, video everywhere, hybrid work, and the explosion of gaming and content creation, will drive growth. Challenging times always sharpen your focus, and the fiscal year 2023 definitely sharpened ours.
We quickly resized in a prudent, methodical fashion while remaining committed to the keystone of our business, product innovation, or as I think of it, design-led engineering. We are confident that we've taken the appropriate steps to springload our categories for growth as we exit this economic cycle and move ahead. One final point before I turn it over to Chuck. I said a little of this before, but it merits repeating. I said earlier that 45% of our products now include carbon labeling. This is a huge deal for Logitech, but it can be an even bigger deal for the world. I'd like to point out that we're not trying to create competitive advantage here. We'd love the chance to help others, including competitors, to advance carbon labeling.
Please, for those of you listening, consumers, investors, analysts, and our competitors. You can have an impact, a big one. I'd ask that next time you're interacting with any company, including your own, ask them about their approach to carbon labeling. We can move this ahead so much faster for the betterment of our customers and for the world. Carbon labels on all our products can be the new calorie, and that will drive competition and bring down carbon levels. With that, I'll hand it over to Chuck to provide some additional color on Q4 and fiscal year 2023 results. Chuck? Chuck, I want you to notice that I wore my jacket. I felt so much pressure from you. You said, "Until we have growth, you have to wear a jacket to the earnings calls." I don't like wearing a jacket, so I hope it's not long.
Chuck Boynton (CFO)
Well, you look great, Bracken.
Bracken Darrell (President and CEO)
Thank you.
Chuck Boynton (CFO)
Thank you. I appreciate you all joining our call today. Our Silicon Valley site is being relocated. I'm calling in from my house today using a BRIO 4K webcam, the Logi Dock, and our MX series mouse and keyboard. Next quarter, we should be in our new office in San Jose. Let me delve into the fourth quarter and full year in greater detail. Our Q4 and full year results are in line with the revised outlook we shared during our Analyst Day in March. For the quarter, net sales in constant currency declined by 20% to $960 million. For the full year, net sales were down 13% to $4.5 billion.
Examining our category performance, results were in line with expectations with continued pressure in video collaboration down 25% and gaming down 22% due to a slowdown in simulation, while our creativity and productivity categories either held steady or improved sequentially. In Q4, gross margins were in line with our expectations, decreasing year-over-year to 36.3%. For the year, gross margins were 38.3%, down 340 basis points compared to fiscal year 2022. Margins were pressured throughout the year due to unfavorable currency movements, inflation-driven cost increases, and product mix. As we transition to fiscal year 2024, we anticipate the weakening U.S. dollar, euro exchange rate, and lower manufacturing costs to contribute to improved gross margins. We judiciously reduced operating expenses over the year while continuing to invest in our product innovation initiatives and enterprise selling capabilities. Operating income was $82 million in Q4 and $589 million for the full year.
Operating income in both the quarter and the year reflected lower demand and gross margin pressure, partially offset by reductions in operating expenses. Cash flow from operations was $217 million in Q4 and $534 million for the full year. Our ending cash balance was over $1.1 billion. Notably, we returned a total of $577 million to shareholders in fiscal year 2023 through our share repurchase program and dividend payment. In March, we outlined our intentions to quickly address two opportunities: one, improve our cash conversion cycle by reducing on-hand inventory and optimizing channel inventory; and two, reduce operating expenses to a run rate of $1 billion. Although less than two months have passed since we presented these plans, I'm encouraged by the strong momentum on both fronts.
I'm pleased to report that our on-hand inventory was down for the fourth consecutive quarter, with Q4 seeing the biggest reduction of the year. Our goal over the next year or so is to continuously improve inventory turns to five or better. Furthermore, we plan to keep reducing channel inventory in the first half of the year before the normal build for the December quarter. As we mentioned during Analyst Day, we believe lower channel and on-hand inventory provide better economics for us and our partners in the value chain. We are maintaining the outlook we provided in March, expecting H1 fiscal year 2024 revenue of $1.8 billion-$1.9 billion, down approximately 22%-18% compared to the prior year in U.S. dollars. Our corresponding operating income is expected to be between $160 million and $190 million, down approximately 47%-37%. Nate, we can now open the line for questions.
Operator (participant)
Great. Thanks, Chuck, thanks, Bracken, and thanks, everyone for joining.
Bracken Darrell (President and CEO)
Thank you.
Operator (participant)
As a reminder, please raise your hand if you're interested in participating in Q&A, and come off of video when selected. Thank you. First question comes from Paul Chung at JPMorgan. Morning, Paul.
Bracken Darrell (President and CEO)
Hello, Paul.
Paul Chung (Equity Research Analyst)
Morning. Good to see you guys.
Bracken Darrell (President and CEO)
Good to see you in your fair city.
Paul Chung (Equity Research Analyst)
Yeah. First up, on gross margins, you know, for 4Q, would've thought there would be, you know, better improvement in kind of easing supply chain headwinds. What drove the pressures there? I know PC and gaming mix has come down a bit, which may have driven some impact there. What do you see as temporary? As we move into the next year, how should we think about those variables easing and kind of impact on gross margins, at least in the first half?
Bracken Darrell (President and CEO)
Okay, Chuck, you wanna take that one?
Chuck Boynton (CFO)
Yeah. Certainly. Thank you, Paul. You know, our overall margins for the quarter were roughly in line with our expectations. The operations team did a phenomenal job reducing costs, but with inventory turns, we won't see the benefit of that cost reduction until next quarter as it flows through. Q4, you know, kind of compared to Q3, we did have some minor inventory charges. The mix issue, as identified in the prepared remarks. Looking forward, we see tailwinds with FX, you know, lower costs, and obviously not the same inventory charges. Longer term, we expect to be in that long-term operating model of, you know, 39% to, you know, low 40s% over time.
Paul Chung (Equity Research Analyst)
Okay, great. Then second, on VC, in your prepared remarks you kind of mentioned, kind of typical ASP per room has been increasing, which is great. Can you help us size, you know, both the opportunity to expand conference rooms, where you think that ASP can go, when volume comes back, and, you know, which peripherals you're seeing the most success in the conference rooms? Thanks.
Bracken Darrell (President and CEO)
Yeah. I think the cool thing about our business model is there's just a lot of room to continue to increase the ASP per room. You know, if you think about it, we announced something called Sight, you know, which most of you have seen, which is just about... it's soon gonna be out, and it's another peripheral basically for the room. You get a Rally Bar, Rally Bar Mini, you add that in the middle of the table, and suddenly you've got an equitable meeting. You know, that's an example. You've also got whiteboards where, which at $1,000 a unit, you know, you can drop into a conference room and suddenly a camera, your whiteboard, whatever kind of whiteboard you're using, becomes a participant.
We have lots of ways to increase the value per room, so I'm very optimistic long term that the ASPs can go up. You know, the number of rooms that will be enabled continues to be a very high number. You know, we just gotta get through this current period where, you know, people are kinda scratching their heads saying, "I'm not really sure exact..." Not all people, but, well, not all companies, but a lot of companies are saying, "I'm not quite sure what we're doing yet." You know, we're a good example. We're closing one office, we're opening another office. The new office we know exactly what we're doing from a video enablement standpoint, but a lot of the other people are lagging us.
They're either, they really haven't completely decided what to do with the current office, they're doing the minimum, or they're saving money 'cause they're going through this economic cycle too. They're gonna do it, but it's gonna come later. I'm not hearing anybody say, "Gosh, you know, video enablement of rooms is a bad idea." It's just timing.
Chuck Boynton (CFO)
I would just add, Bracken, you know, the market sizing that we talked about at Analyst Day is roughly 50 million conference rooms with approximately 10% penetration.
Bracken Darrell (President and CEO)
Yeah.
Chuck Boynton (CFO)
Certainly what you're seeing, I think, is we've won some great deals this quarter. A large food company, Bracken mentioned a one of the tech giants. We're winning lots of deals. They tend to be smaller up front, with additional purchases as they re-outfit their rooms over time. You know, we're bullish on video long term, and it's a great category, and these new products I think will provide additional fuel for growth long term.
Bracken Darrell (President and CEO)
You know, one other thing we didn't mention, Paul, was service. You know, it's a really small business for us today, but it's gonna keep growing, and it's growing rapidly. Every time you buy a room, you really ought to be getting the service that goes with it. Our service package is called Select, and it's growing, like I said, it's growing very rapidly, and I think one day that'll be a pretty decent chunk of our revenue.
Paul Chung (Equity Research Analyst)
Okay, great. Thank you.
Bracken Darrell (President and CEO)
Thank you.
Operator (participant)
Next up is Alex Duval from Goldman Sachs.
Bracken Darrell (President and CEO)
Hey, Alex. How you doing?
Alex Duval (VP and Senior Equity Analyst)
Hi, everyone. Thanks very much for the questions. Just wanted to ask, firstly on OpEx, you've done a very strong job controlling that. I just wondered how much more OpEx control you think can be done. Should we expect further cost reductions this fiscal year versus fiscal 2023, or is fiscal fourth quarter indicative of a new run rate going forward? Secondly, some investors have been asking about PC suppliers, which have indicated there could be a possibility of stabilizing PC demand in the second half of the year. Curious to what extent your PC-linked revenues could benefit from such a recovery. Any color there very much appreciated.
Bracken Darrell (President and CEO)
I'll just touch on each one, then Chuck you can clean up whatever you feel like I didn't cover. I think, you know, we've been super clear that we wanna get to a $1 billion run rate on our OpEx as we get, you know, past this first half and into the latter half of the year, and that's where we're headed. No, our current run rate's not quite where we wanna be yet, but we'll get there. The second, on your second question, you know, we've been pretty clear that we think the PC, the PC category is kinda not linked as a driver of our peripherals business.
However, it is probably indicative of what's happening in one way, which is that, you know, if especially in the B2B business, you know, if people are cutting spending on PCs, they're probably also cutting spending on peripherals. Yeah, I think there's some relationship. We'll see what happens. You know, we're not guiding the back half of the year yet. We continue to feel like the visibility's really hard to call. What do you want to add there, Chuck, on either one of those?
Chuck Boynton (CFO)
Yeah, I would just add on the OpEx side, you know, we finished the quarter with 266 million in OpEx, and our, our plan is to get to 250 million in, uh, a quarter by the back end of this year. And so there is, there are, you know, some headwinds on OpEx with, uh, FX, which is a, a overall benefit to the company, but a little bit of a headwind. Um, but, uh, so, you know, the, the reductions are already, you know, mostly completed, and we're, uh, we'll see the numbers come down I think each and every quarter, uh, up until the, you know, middle part of, of the back ha- half of the year.
Alex Duval (VP and Senior Equity Analyst)
Great. That's very helpful. Many thanks.
Bracken Darrell (President and CEO)
Thank you.
Operator (participant)
Next question?
Bracken Darrell (President and CEO)
We could go-
Operator (participant)
... is from Asiya Merchant at Citi. Morning, Asiya.
Bracken Darrell (President and CEO)
Hi, Asiya.
Asiya Merchant (Director and Equity Research Analyst)
Hey. Good morning, everyone. Hopefully you can hear me. Quick question on gross margins. I think in the past you guys have provided some, you know, breakdown of how FX versus promotions versus inflation have kind of affected margins on a year-over-year or even on a sequential basis. If you could go through that exercise for the March quarter, as you look ahead, I heard Chuck mention that margins should improve here as dollar weakens and, you know, the inventory is right-sized and flow through of the lower manufacturing costs. What should we kind of expect for, let's say, even the first half of the year? Or should we expect those unwinds to happen that are a headwind in the first, you know, throughout most of fiscal 2023? That's my first question. Secondly, Bracken, like.
Bracken Darrell (President and CEO)
Let me stop you there. Let me. Let's answer it one at a time so we can really focus on it. Chuck, you'll correct me if I'm wrong, but I think we've been saying that about 300 basis points were inflation, a couple hundred basis points were currency, and then, you know, there was a few other drips and drabs, 100 basis points on transportation, et cetera. I think all that is coming through. It's just coming through slowly, as it would. You know, it has to work its way through our inventory, which takes time. We've got a pretty long inventory cycle, and we were sitting on more inventory than we would have liked before. You wanna add anything to that, Chuck?
Chuck Boynton (CFO)
Yeah, I think that's good. You know, sequentially, that's sort of a year-over-year view. Sequentially, you know, inventory charges were, you know, a couple hundred basis points and mix was a couple hundred. Those are ones. You know, mix, it's hard to predict, but inventory, FX, costs I think are all transitory, and I think we should see sequential improvement slowly throughout the year.
Bracken Darrell (President and CEO)
Yep. Sorry to interrupt.
Asiya Merchant (Director and Equity Research Analyst)
With our promotions. No, that's fine. Was there any effect, you know, just people are trying to understand what the effect of promotions have been. Is there a competitive. That kind of goes into my second question, the competitive dynamics. You talked about gaming being soft. We heard from, you know, GN, I guess Jabra in Europe that they had done well in gaming. Maybe you can talk a little bit about the competitive dynamics both on the gaming side and just broadly how it's affecting margins, whether there's been an increased competitive intensity here, and if you see that easing as the year progresses.
Bracken Darrell (President and CEO)
First, let me I don't know their earnings quite well enough to know, but I have a hunch that what the difference between us and them is simply category difference. You know, we have a big simulation business, and we had a huge simulation number in the year ago, a year ago date info. We certainly don't think we're losing a share in gaming, so I think it's probably comparable. You want Chuck, you wanna take any of this? Yeah.
Chuck Boynton (CFO)
I do. You know, promotional activity sort of went back to normal in Q4. That was a bit of a headwind in Q3. It was sort of back to normal in Q4. Competitive positioning, I think we feel great in gaming. Our business, our gaming business is very, very much larger than theirs is. When you compare the categories, we have different categories like simulation that they're not in. That's a great category with terrific margins. That was down quarter-over-quarter given the kind of promotional bump from the December quarter.
Bracken Darrell (President and CEO)
Year ago.
Asiya Merchant (Director and Equity Research Analyst)
Okay. All right. Just competitive intensity going forward, you know, whether it's VC, you know, with HP probably, whether it's gaming, are we seeing, like, the, you know, as the inventory digestion has happened, competition is kind of going back to normal promo, and so there isn't this excessive hunt to reduce inventory in the channel?
Chuck Boynton (CFO)
I don't think-
Bracken Darrell (President and CEO)
Yeah, go ahead, Chuck. Sorry.
Chuck Boynton (CFO)
Oh, the B2B side is not as price sensitive as the consumer side, so I don't think the video category is very price sensitive. The margins are terrific, and, you know, the industry participants have been behaving, you know, rationally. That's really more, I think, just this kind of a general issue around the economy and uncertainty that's happening with corporate buyers. That the overall, you know, large conference room, medium conference room business is kind of stable. It's not really taking off and growing, but it's not really going down either. I think that's really more just the early indicators look good, but I think with the overall uncertainty, that will come back. Other areas like webcams, I think you see more price sensitivity.
Bracken Darrell (President and CEO)
Yeah. You know, we've always got, and we do now, you know, areas where, you know, we feel like we really need to adjust pricing a little bit or, you know, bring pricing down or promote a little heavier, but they tend to be surgical, you know? Without getting into specifics here, I think that's gonna continue to happen. Overall, I feel like the promotion intensity is not. It doesn't scare me right now. I don't feel like there's a big wave of price competition coming through that's gonna change the dynamics of our business.
Asiya Merchant (Director and Equity Research Analyst)
Okay, great. Thank you.
Bracken Darrell (President and CEO)
Thank you.
Operator (participant)
Next on the line is Erik Woodring from Morgan Stanley.
Bracken Darrell (President and CEO)
Hello, Erik.
Erik Woodring (Managing Director and Head of U.S. Technology Hardware Research)
Hey. Good morning, guys. Thanks for, thanks for taking my question.
Bracken Darrell (President and CEO)
Thank you.
Erik Woodring (Managing Director and Head of U.S. Technology Hardware Research)
You know, Bracken, maybe ask, if I could ask you a bigger picture question, and that is: You know, I appreciate the fact that you're very clear and that visibility is more limited today. Can you maybe just share some comments about why visibility is less limited today? Is it the channel? Is it spending patterns? Is it the impact and the uncertainty of the macro conditions? All of the above? If you could just double-click on that to help us understand why perhaps today versus historical periods you just have less visibility into the business.
Bracken Darrell (President and CEO)
That's a great question. I like the way you phrase it. It's really, it's only the just the economic environment we're in. It's just a little hard to see. You know, you don't know, you don't know you're gonna go up until you actually balance, you know? I think we've been down now for three or four quarters, and I think, you know, it's really hard for us to judge when that direction will change. We think it will change. It's just a question of when. It's really just that. You know, I was with I was in an event this week where there were a bunch of kind of mid-sized and smaller CEOs and some HR people, et cetera. You know, I got, you know, I really got this...
It just reinforced my strong feeling and the data that we're seeing, which is that, you know, especially on the B2B side, it's not like companies are in trouble. I mean, they're okay. They're just spending more conservatively. You know, and I think that conservatism is, you know, and when you spend conservatively, you tend to have the easiest control over your costs, and that's why, you know, a lot of the PC companies are feeling it, and we're feeling it. It's really just that, Erik, and it's really hard for me to say when it will turn, but it will.
You know, you could probably go back and look at economic cycles and try to deduce something, but we decided to just be more conservative and just guide for six months and then wait and see quarter by quarter.
Erik Woodring (Managing Director and Head of U.S. Technology Hardware Research)
No, that's helpful. I guess maybe the second question, 'cause you guys kind of elaborated to it, you called out some deals this quarter, which I feel like you don't necessarily do historically. You mentioned Snowflake. Chuck, you mentioned another one. You know, can you just give us an understanding? I know, Chuck, you mentioned they start small, are these needle movers? Are these mostly in the VC business? Are they currently embedded into your guidance, is this incremental? Because you just announced them, I wasn't sure how much line of sight you had, you know, 30 or 60 days ago. Again, if you could just elaborate on the impact of those deals, any color you could share on the products, whether they're incremental or not, that would be helpful. Thank you.
Bracken Darrell (President and CEO)
I'll jump in, and Chuck, you can add. You know, I think, you know, we really just felt like, you know what? We should once in a while call out some of the customers so you get a feel for the logos. There are a lot of big logos that we don't get permission to talk about publicly for whatever reason. It's not usually that they don't want us to. We just don't go ask them. We did mention Snowflake this time. We talked about the food company. There are many others. I would say they're pretty much part of our overall game plan. They're needle movers, but they're not needle movers relative to the expectations we've already set. You wanna add anything in there, Chuck?
Chuck Boynton (CFO)
Yeah, I do. Erik, you know, the key thing is you wanna win the company. Many companies use multiple vendors, so it's not like they're exclusive. For if you win the account, it tends to be a smaller deal up front, and then they keep buying more and more over a period of years. No one transaction is a needle mover for us, but they're really good signs that we've won the account, that we can land and expand, and ultimately, that's what we're looking for. I just wanna, you know, call out our sales organization 'cause they've done a really good job of building out this B2B capability. It's a key strategic investment for us. I think it'll bear fruit for years to come.
Bracken Darrell (President and CEO)
If I could just add, I was just in a large manufacturing company's offices here in New York this week, and it's really interesting. They started very small with us, to your point, Chuck. You know, started very small with us about two years ago, and now every single room they have has our stuff. It's an incredible office, by the way, and, you know, so, you know, that's kind of our game plan. We just really wanna land then expand.
Erik Woodring (Managing Director and Head of U.S. Technology Hardware Research)
If I could, sorry, just follow up with one last question, Chuck, and this one's for you. Just on gross margins, if we look back over the last four years, we have seen sequential compression in gross margins from March into June. The comments I hear from you kind of seem to indicate they might go the other direction and expand from March to June. Can you just maybe help us, give us a few more pieces to help us understand the directionality of gross margins from March into June and some of the more influential moving pieces there? That's it for me. Thanks.
Chuck Boynton (CFO)
Yeah, yeah. Thank you, Erik. You know, we're not providing detailed guidance for June, I would say let's look over the longer term. You know, we're in this sort of transitory state right now. You know, we brought channel inventory down significantly. We're gonna continue to take that down in Q1 and Q2 before it builds into Q3. The overall seasonality of the company is such that, you know, you know, Q1 and Q2, like we actually, we outlined this at our Analyst Day, if you go back and look. I think it was like 24% Q1, 24% Q2, 30% Q3, I think 22%, if my math works, for Q4. That overall profile, if you think about that, you're absorbing more overhead as you have bigger quarters.
With taking channel inventory down and revenue being sort of suppressed with reducing channel inventory, you know, that hurts gross margins, and then when it expands, it's a benefit. I look at that and say, you know, I'm not gonna, you know, say, "Hey, Q1 or the June quarter, it's back to normal." I do think by, you know, end of Q2, Q3, back half of the year, I expect us to be back to normal. Certainly, no one can predict, you know, the currency rates, but that's been a real headwind over the last year or so. It looks like it's getting better and turning, but we just, we can't be sure. The inventory charges, you know, some of those items, I do think those are a tailwind now.
Erik Woodring (Managing Director and Head of U.S. Technology Hardware Research)
Super. Thank you for all the color, guys.
Bracken Darrell (President and CEO)
Thank you.
Operator (participant)
Our next question is from Ananda at Loop. Good morning, Ananda.
Bracken Darrell (President and CEO)
Hey, Ananda.
Ananda Baruah (Senior Equity Analyst)
Hey, guys. Hey, good morning. Yeah, good to see you guys. Thanks for taking the questions. A couple if I could. I mean, I guess we could just stick right there, Chuck, with your comments around sort of seasonality. Do you think that the inventory that remains to be worked down could impact seasonality in September, December quarter, meaningfully, or is it, is the inventory really in businesses right now where the impact would be needed? Then I have a quick follow-up. Thanks
Chuck Boynton (CFO)
I mean, you know, overall I feel comfortable with where our inventory levels are. Our view is sort of a philosophy, is that a lean supply chain is better for everyone. If you think about, you know, return on invested capital as I think is the ultimate metric, if you have less on-hand inventory, less channel inventory, it's better economics for everyone. While our weeks on hand are within the normal operating model, we'd like to get that a little bit leaner because I think that will be better returns for us and the channel.
Of course, you have to rebuild the channel inventory because of that seasonality for the December quarter, you know, Black Friday into the Christmas period. That I believe will happen, you know, regardless. Overall, we're comfortable with where the levels are today and even where they were in Q4. We just want to take them down because I think it's better unit economics.
Ananda Baruah (Senior Equity Analyst)
That's really helpful. Appreciate that. Then Bracken, I guess for you mentioned sort of like, kind of off the cuff in the beginning, prepared remarks. Return to office is uncertain, refresh cycles haven't kicked in yet. Anything that you guys are seeing that has you think, kind of the structural nature that underpins some of the key trends, is altering at all? Actually if you could just as a part of that, just, where are you seeing the refresh cycles not yet kicking in? When do you think they eventually will kick in?
Bracken Darrell (President and CEO)
No
Ananda Baruah (Senior Equity Analyst)
That's it for me. Thanks.
Bracken Darrell (President and CEO)
Yeah. Thank you. You know, on the refresh cycles, I think we're not yet seeing it. In personal workspace, we're not really seeing it kick in yet, which is the mice and keyboards and that kind of thing, and even for gaming. I think that's probably ahead of us. You know, those cycles are three to five years, so we'll probably see it. Some of the categories are faster, some a little longer. On the structural nature of our opportunity, I don't really see anything that's changed. I mean, I think it's pretty much the same. You know, we've just got. You know, I'm sitting in an office now, and the one I'm sitting in now does have video.
If I walk down the hallway, it's amazing to me how many of these offices do not have video. I think that's just a reality. Hybrid work has done nothing but make that more obvious to people and more required. I don't think that's changed. I don't think the need for a home office has changed or to upgrade it. I don't think the reality of gaming or streaming and creating has really changed at all. I don't see anything really fundamentally structurally that's changed in our view of the category opportunities.
Ananda Baruah (Senior Equity Analyst)
Okay, great. That's helpful. Thank you. Appreciate it.
Bracken Darrell (President and CEO)
Thank you.
Operator (participant)
Next on the line is Adam Angelov from Bank of America. Hey, Adam.
Bracken Darrell (President and CEO)
Hi, Adam.
Adam Angelov (Research Analyst)
Hey, thanks for letting me on. Firstly, just a very quick one for Chuck to follow up on what you just answered to a previous question. Gross margins back to normal, did you mean back to the long-term guidance range?
Chuck Boynton (CFO)
Yeah, you know, it's possible we get there still this year. You know, Q3 generally tends to be really strong gross margins because it is a peak quarter. You know, I think it's very possible that Q3 is there just because it's such a big quarter, due to seasonality. If you think about run rates structurally, annually at that kind of 39%-44%, my guess it's, you know, probably into next year, but that's I can't really predict that. Certainly I think if you look historically, Q4, Q3 being our best quarter, we've been typically quite high margins in that Q3 just given the volume.
Adam Angelov (Research Analyst)
Got it. That's helpful. Thanks. Next, I think just curious on what you saw in China in the quarter. Was there any sequential improvement there? And perhaps, as you look into, the rest of the year, how you would expect that to develop.
Bracken Darrell (President and CEO)
I'm gonna try that one, Chuck. You feel free to jump in. I think China's a little harder for me to judge right now, to be honest. It's usually been just kinda consistently up and to the right. I think it's been choppy over the last, you know, kind of year. It is highly competitive there. It's opened up, not as much as you would like, you know. It's not quite where, back where it used to be. I feel very confident in sort of the longer term. I think the dynamics in China are great. You know, you've got such a young population. Everybody's moving into the workforce and moving up in the workforce. There's more and more knowledge workers.
It's become an environment where you can imagine a bigger, a healthier, more dynamic, kind of IT world in China. You know, it's obvious to me and probably obvious to you. I'm really excited about long-term. We have a great brand there. I mean, a really great brand there. Incredibly strong market shares, and that's across both, you know, our two consumer businesses. On the video collaboration side, it's never been as strong there. It's just, for some reason, the dynamics there have developed quite differently.
That does tend to happen in China in some categories. We'll see if it eventually gets to where it's really got more gusto. Overall, I don't see anything but strength long-term in China. It's really hard for me to call it, just like it is for our visibility in the back half of the year for the company in general. For China particularly, I don't know.
Chuck Boynton (CFO)
I think, you know, as it relates to China, you know, Q3 was a tough quarter. It was down, you know, we were down 25% year-over-year in Q3. Q4, though, we were down 3% year-over-year. It looks like a recovery in China. As Bracken mentioned, you know, our top SKUs, the best-selling products in China are on the gaming side. There's just a huge opportunity on video, but that's a, that's a tough nut to crack. Yeah, the market is just enormous. I think we're in a good position with things stabilizing there as it relates to volumes year-over-year.
Bracken Darrell (President and CEO)
We do partner differently in video in China than we do elsewhere because you don't have the same service players. They're not. Our same big video conference players are not as big in China. They're much smaller.
Adam Angelov (Research Analyst)
Okay, that's great, and if I can just squeeze one more in.
Bracken Darrell (President and CEO)
Sure.
Adam Angelov (Research Analyst)
The behavior you're seeing from the enterprise customers, I think you touched on it briefly, but just curious to know, it sounds like it hasn't gotten worse, but equally hasn't improved. Maybe if you could just go into that in a little bit more detail would be great. Thanks.
Bracken Darrell (President and CEO)
Yeah, I think, I think you captured it. It's pretty much kind of stable, I would say. You know, it's about where it was, which doesn't really shock me. You know, the layoff news continues, you know, and the layoffs especially in tech, but it's also spread to some extent, as you know, in banking and, you know, I think in some other sectors. You know, I think that news kind of, it's kind of, it seems like it maybe is almost all the way out, the big company news at least is almost all the way out. The impact really dribbles over three to six to nine months. I think, you know, that, those dominoes will continue to fall now for another few quarters, but it will turn.
Adam Angelov (Research Analyst)
Very good. Thank you.
Bracken Darrell (President and CEO)
Thank you.
Operator (participant)
Our next question is from George Wang at Barclays. Hey, George.
Bracken Darrell (President and CEO)
Hey, George.
George Wang (Senior Equity Research Analyst)
Hey, guys. Chuck, maybe you can give more color on the capital return kind of going forward, especially given, you know, better cash flow backdrop with some tailwinds coming back, you know, on the inventory kind of better cost profile. Just curious if you had any color just on buyback or kind of dividend going forward.
Chuck Boynton (CFO)
Yeah. We're, you know, we're just really proud of what we've been able to accomplish on returning capital to shareholders over the last, you know, few years. We had a great cash quarter. We had a great cash year. If you look at it year-over-year, you know, our cash balance now is $1.14 billion-$1.15 billion. It's down year-over-year. I think we ended last year at about $1.2 billion or $1.3 billion, and we returned $577 million roughly to shareholders. That has been, you know, great. Our primary objective though, as we've stated before, is growth. You know, we, if to the extent we don't use cash to buy companies or expand, then we plan to return that back to our shareholders via a great dividend that we pay, as well as buybacks.
George Wang (Senior Equity Research Analyst)
Okay, thanks. I have a quick, follow-up. Bracken, maybe you can comment on the kind of share gains. You know, in the prepared remarket you called out some share gains, you know, within the gaming category. Are there any other kind of category you want to call out in terms of notable share gains in the last few months?
Bracken Darrell (President and CEO)
You know, across the year you can see our share gains across most of our key categories and, you know, those share gains were very widespread and consistent. You know, it's really a function of our innovation engine. Within any single quarter or few months we'll have sometimes wobbles up and down, so I won't go through the individual categories, but we've over the, you know, 10, 11 years that I've been here, we've consistently gained share in almost every category and, you know, that's why we're so focused on design and design led engineering, and that's why we're investing.
George Wang (Senior Equity Research Analyst)
Okay, great. Thank you.
Bracken Darrell (President and CEO)
Thank you.
George Wang (Senior Equity Research Analyst)
That's it for me.
Bracken Darrell (President and CEO)
All right. Thank you.
Operator (participant)
George. Our next question is from Serge Rotzer at Credit Suisse.
Bracken Darrell (President and CEO)
Hi, Serge.
Serge Rotzer (Director and Equity Analyst)
Hi. Now I'm ready. Good morning, everybody.
Bracken Darrell (President and CEO)
Yeah.
Serge Rotzer (Director and Equity Analyst)
Well, two simple questions. The first question is you were down 22% in sales and also in gaming 25%, 27% in video conferencing. Can you give me a feeling how much is price impact and how much is volume impact? Price impact due to promotions, also due to more competition in the enterprise business. Can you give me a flavor on that?
Chuck Boynton (CFO)
Certainly. It's the year-over-year changes are primarily volume. You know, we were promoting a little more than we'd expected in Q3, that has returned to normal, so it's primarily volumes year-over-year.
Serge Rotzer (Director and Equity Analyst)
Any product categories where you have been able to increase prices or to increase volume?
Chuck Boynton (CFO)
We increased prices in a number of categories. There, you know, there have been some bright spots. You know, some of the tablets and accessories have been a bright spot. Certainly there's lots of different. We have many SKUs and many products, many of them, there are, you know, many that are growing. You know, the secular trends that you're seeing are year-over-year comps. As we start to lap our Q4 and throughout this year, I think we'll see easier and better comps as it relates to the year-over-year results.
Serge Rotzer (Director and Equity Analyst)
Okay, fair enough. Probably switch direct to the second question. At the capital market day, you mentioned to us, "Hey, guys, look at the seasonality, you know, of our quarters in sales." It's 48% in sales you do the first six months and obviously 52% in the second six months, or second half. I'm wondering, we also have a seasonality in EBIT, you know? In the past, you did 40% of the EBIT in the first six months, so basically you have to do 60% in the second half. When I take your guidance and would sum this up for the full year, we are at the level at the midpoint of $435 million, you know? This is clearly below consensus and expectation. I'm wondering, are you too cautious more for the first six months, or are you much more ambitious for the second six months?
Chuck Boynton (CFO)
Well, what you're seeing is the profile is we're in a transitional stage. Operating expenses are coming down. We're taking costs out, and we're seeing some benefits that we think will manifest into gross margins. That profile that you're seeing in this transitional stage is putting more pressure on the near term. We're not providing outlook to the back half of the year, 'cause quite frankly we just don't know. We hope to do that. We plan to return to annual guidance over time. Certainly we're optimistic that the December quarter, our biggest quarter, will be a strong quarter, but at this point, sitting here in, you know, early May, it's just too early right now to provide color on, you know, Q3 and Q4.
Serge Rotzer (Director and Equity Analyst)
To be honest, to improve your margin, your EBIT contribution in the second half, you need success in VC. Is this correct? Because this is still the highest gross profit margin product.
Chuck Boynton (CFO)
Certainly if video conference improves, that's an additional tailwind, the mix that we talked about. It's really hard to predict what'll happen with the mix. I will tell you, generally, the B2B categories are less seasonal. I think you'll see, you know, the other parts of the business will mix up more in the Q3 quarter due to seasonality. You know, video does not have to return to get to our targets, but, you know, if it does, I think that's great, and we expect it to. We just, we're not providing guidance for the back half of the year.
Serge Rotzer (Director and Equity Analyst)
The problem is still the last one. You mentioned VC is stable, VC, quarter-over-quarter was minus, down 20%. What do you mean we're stable when something's down by 20%?
Chuck Boynton (CFO)
It's. That's a good question. We're gonna realign the categories that we show you next quarter. You'll see, we're gonna break out in a bit more detail the quarterly businesses. In the video category, we have professional webcams and some other solutions in there. Webcams across the board, B2B, consumer, those have seen some significant declines and whereas the room solutions have been fairly stable, that's what we're referring to.
Serge Rotzer (Director and Equity Analyst)
Okay. Got it. This is very helpful. Bon voyage, huh? Thank you so much. Bye-bye.
Bracken Darrell (President and CEO)
Thank you. Thank you.
Chuck Boynton (CFO)
Thanks.
Bracken Darrell (President and CEO)
Yeah, I'm glad you said that, Chuck, 'cause I think that I can't wait till we do that realignment, 'cause it'll, I think it'll clear up things for people.
Operator (participant)
Great. Our next question is from Andreas Müller at ZKB.
Bracken Darrell (President and CEO)
Hi, Andreas.
Andreas Müller (Equity Research Analyst)
Hi, everybody. Thanks for taking my questions. I have one on Windows 11, if that's going to help you in, at some point. You mentioned this correlation with PC sales, of course, is not that much strong, but from a product perspective that this operating system will help you in some ways, with your product that some new innovation's coming in.
Bracken Darrell (President and CEO)
You know, my experience with Windows upgrades is just kind of ignore them from a volume standpoint for the near term, and then the long term they're good, 'cause they keep the PC industry vibrant. You know? That's kind of the way we're thinking about it now. I'm sure it will be a good thing overall, good for users, and our products are always well integrated with the latest Windows update upgrades. It's gonna, we're gonna be in good shape there. I wouldn't expect anything significantly to change because of that.
Andreas Müller (Equity Research Analyst)
Okay. your very good cash position.
Bracken Darrell (President and CEO)
I wish, I would add one other thing. I think the bigger change we've made is our products work really well with Apple, you know, or with the Mac, and that's happened over the last year, and we've seen, you know, really significant business improvement and potential out there because of that.
Andreas Müller (Equity Research Analyst)
That's tied to the productivity categories.
Bracken Darrell (President and CEO)
Yeah
Andreas Müller (Equity Research Analyst)
also,
Bracken Darrell (President and CEO)
Yeah
Andreas Müller (Equity Research Analyst)
products? Yeah.
Bracken Darrell (President and CEO)
That's it.
Andreas Müller (Equity Research Analyst)
Okay.
Bracken Darrell (President and CEO)
Yeah. Productivity. Yeah.
Andreas Müller (Equity Research Analyst)
Next question. You are cash rich company right now, and I was wondering, can you discuss if that is helpful or was helpful at times when financing by banks, sort of more conservative, and towards clients and competitors? I mean, does that change your position in some ways? Because I saw DPOs went up.
Bracken Darrell (President and CEO)
Let me just try to briefly answer that and I'll let Chuck drop in. I'm not sure it really changed anything for us, because we don't need much support from the banks. You know, we do have great banking relationships in the event we ever needed it, but we don't really need much, so it probably didn't change much. I will say, you know, it's kind of comforting not to be too dependent on leverage in tough times. I, you know, I think at the end of the day, we're really, as you said, we're a cash rich company, but we're also a very good cash generator, so that means, you know, we have to make sure that we deploy that cash responsibly.
I think, you know, like Chuck, I'm really proud of the way we in, you know, put the cash back in shareholders' hands last year in one way or another, and I think, you know, we expect to continue to be a great cash generator. We're aggressively looking for strategic ways to really grow our business, 'cause growth is what it's all about. So we're gonna keep doing that. Chuck, you want to add anything to that?
Chuck Boynton (CFO)
Yeah, I agree. We have a very high bar for M&A. We've got a great history and a great track record. To the extent we find great opportunities, then we'll deploy it. Otherwise, we will return the capital to shareholders, as we've done. I'm very comfortable with the cash balance that we have. It's similar to where it's been the last, you know, couple years. I think it's sort of steady as she goes on the capital allocation model.
Andreas Müller (Equity Research Analyst)
Okay. The last question on you, with, for you, Chuck, this $18 million restructuring charge, was that it now in this program, or should we look for more going forward?
Chuck Boynton (CFO)
There will be more charges. The accounting rules have kind of changed over the years, where you used to just take all the charges up front, and then you would spend against those reserves. The rules have changed a little bit. There will be additional charges that we incur over the next few quarters. Largely, the actions are all done internally, it's just more the timing.
Andreas Müller (Equity Research Analyst)
Mm-hmm. Okay. Thank you very much.
Bracken Darrell (President and CEO)
Thank you very much.
Andreas Müller (Equity Research Analyst)
Thank you.
Bracken Darrell (President and CEO)
Thanks, Andreas. Michael.
Operator (participant)
Great. Brad and Chuck, our final question, for the morning is from Michael Foeth at Vontobel.
Bracken Darrell (President and CEO)
Hi, Michael.
Michael Foeth (Senior Equity Research Analyst)
Hi, how are you doing?
Bracken Darrell (President and CEO)
It's biking season, so you're probably back out.
Michael Foeth (Senior Equity Research Analyst)
Okay, I have one on sustainability. You mentioned that your carbon labeling is now, I think 45% of the products. What holds you back from being faster and labeling the rest and, you know, is the process so complex? Is that maybe a reason why it's also holding back your peers from doing the same? Is there?
Bracken Darrell (President and CEO)
Okay, I'll answer that. There are two things going on there. One is that it is a You know, we don't wanna just you know, give a really high level estimate of carbon impact, 'cause we're taking Scope 1, 2, and 3, which means from the components that go into our products, transportation, in use, and end of life, so we're really taking the full period. We also need to have enough data to actually be able to draw conclusions that are accurate. Some of our products, you know, that are newer, we really have to give them a year before we have a good accurate assessment. That's the, that's one of the drivers. The second one is, it just takes a while to then implement those into individual products, product by product.
I'm really excited about how fast we've moved actually, and I think one of the reasons why you don't see it from other people is because it isn't easy. We're trying to make it easier, we have been working with an external provider to try to make that easier and more cost efficient, 'cause it's not terribly expensive, but it costs some money, because we really strongly believe that everybody should be carbon labeling in every industry. This is really the one tool that we can all use, governments can use, to drive us all to be able to have, to compete with each other on carbon.
Michael Foeth (Senior Equity Research Analyst)
Okay, thank you. Then, on your guidance for the first half of your fiscal year, which categories are you most confident in that will support that guidance? Where, you know, do you have more uncertainty, looking in the first six months?
Bracken Darrell (President and CEO)
I won't try to be anything except just straightforward on this. It's a little hard to say. I really think personal workspace seems pretty solid. You know, mice and keyboards. You know, it's been great for us from since, I mean, since 1981, you know, so 1982, and it continues to be. I think that the gaming category will be solid. I think video collaboration, you know, I kinda think that one, you know, They say you enter a cycle earlier on consumer and you exit it earlier, you enter a cycle later on B2B and you exit it later.
I would say, you know, if you had to ask me, you really pressed me, I would say my guess is that the mouse and keyboard business will be sturdier and more reliable than the others. But, you know, it's been a little hard to tell through this cycle. One of the reasons why we only guided six months is 'cause it's really harder to tell right now, especially on the B2B side.
Michael Foeth (Senior Equity Research Analyst)
All right. I have last one for Chuck. You mentioned return on invested capital is your ultimate metrics. Is, you know, how long do you have to wait until that becomes sort of part of your long-term model?
Chuck Boynton (CFO)
I don't think at this point we plan to use that for an outlook externally. It's an internal metric that we track. I would not expect us to publish a long-term outlook there.
Bracken Darrell (President and CEO)
I do love I do love that we're, you know, using it internally, and I think it's a super important metric.
Michael Foeth (Senior Equity Research Analyst)
Definitely.
Bracken Darrell (President and CEO)
Super-
Michael Foeth (Senior Equity Research Analyst)
Thanks. Thanks a lot.
Bracken Darrell (President and CEO)
Thank you. Well, thanks all of you. You know, I'll jump in here, Nate, just to say I really appreciate all the discussion. You know, one quarter down. You know, the minute we have more visibility, you can bet that we're, or more strong visibility, we're gonna go to the full year, as Chuck said. You know, thanks. We'll see you in a.