Dorian LPG - Q3 2024

Transcript

Operator (participant)

Good morning, and welcome to the Dorian LPG Third Quarter 2024 Earnings Conference Call. At this time, all participants are in listen-only mode. A brief Q&A session will follow the formal presentation. As a reminder, this conference is being recorded. Additionally, a live audio webcast of today's conference call is available on Dorian LPG's website, which is www.dorianlpg.com. I would like to now turn the conference over to Ted Young, Chief Financial Officer. Thank you, Mr. Young. Please go ahead.

Ted Young (CFO)

Thank you, Rob. Good morning, and thank you all for joining us for our third quarter 2024 results conference call. With me today are John Hadjipateras, Chairman, President, and CEO of Dorian LPG Limited; John Lycouris, Chief Executive Officer of Dorian LPG USA, and Tim Hansen, Chief Commercial Officer. As a reminder, this conference call webcast and a replay of this call will be available through February 8, 2024. Many of our remarks today contain forward-looking statements based on current expectations. These statements may often be identified with words such as expect, anticipate, believe, or similar indications of future expectations. Although we believe that such forward-looking statements are reasonable, we cannot assure you that any forward-looking statements will prove to be correct. These forward-looking statements are subject to known and unknown risks and uncertainties and other factors, as well as general economic conditions.

Should one or more of these risks or uncertainties materialize, or should underlying assumptions or estimates prove to be incorrect, actual results may vary materially from those we express today. Additionally, let me refer you to our unaudited results for the period ended December 31, 2023, that were filed this morning on Form 10-Q. In addition, please refer to our filings on Form 10-K, where you'll find risk factors that could cause actual results to differ materially from those forward-looking statements. Finally, please also refer to the investor highlights slides posted this morning on our website, to which we will refer during the call. With that, I'll turn over the call to John Hadjipateras.

John Hadjipateras (Chairman, President and CEO)

Thank you. Thank you for joining us, John Lycouris, Ted, Tim, and me, to discuss our third quarter financial 2024 results. As you will hear in more detail from Ted, in the financial year to date, we earned a record average TCE, record spot TCE, and record EBITDA. While maintaining a strong balance sheet and capital to invest in our segment and in our decarbonization initiatives, we continue to return capital to our shareholders. Including our recently declared $1 per share dividend, we will have returned over $690 million to shareholders since our IPO. As one of the largest ship operators in our segment, we believe we are well-positioned to continue our profitable performance in the LPG sector and beyond. More than 40 ships were absorbed into the fleet in 2023, a 12% addition.

This was the largest number of ships delivered in a single year since the delivery in 2016 of 46 ships, which represented 23% of the then existing fleet. Of the 17 new buildings slated for delivery in 2024, four have already started trading. We view the market volatility of 2023, and particularly the big rate spikes, as evidence of demand and supply being close to equilibrium. The recent near-total elimination of waiting times for the canal, which is still draft-restricted, is not sustainable. The canal authority is prioritizing container ships and LNG ships over LPG. There are 109 Neo-Panamax container ships and 73 LNG ships slated for delivery this year. For these reasons, as well as the power reduction resulting in slower speeds, which didn't happen last year, we are optimistic.

On the HR side, we continue to invest in improving the quality of life of our displaced Ukrainian seafarers and their families. We recently introduced a simplified payment system through an e-wallet that enables them to receive their monthly allotments quickly and with less hassle. On the social front, we will enter our Cheyenne in a pilot program through the All Aboard Alliance, a global maritime forum-sponsored initiative, which will enable accelerated data collection regarding diversity and increase opportunities for all genders at sea. We are evaluating compelling emission-saving devices and low-friction paints for our ships. During Q3, we painted one of our dry dock ships with silicone paint and have signed new contracts for energy-saving devices that will be retrofitted in the coming year.

We also continue our real-time emission monitoring program and have enhanced the initiative by installing MAN EcoTorque engine diagnostics tool on 20 of our own ships. We have expanded our performance team in Denmark by adding a mechanical engineer. We ordered a new building, VLGC, VLAC, from Hanwha Shipyard in Korea for delivery in 2026 and are investigating opportunities to upgrade some of our existing ships to carry ammonia. John Lycouris will speak further on this topic. Ted, you are go ahead.

Ted Young (CFO)

Thank you, John.... My comments this morning will focus on our financial position and liquidity, our unaudited third quarter results, and our capital allocation decisions. At December 31, 2023, we reported $208.5 million of free cash, which represented a very solid increase from the $192 million reported at the end of September. The $208.5 million is, of course, reported after the payment of the $40 million dividend that was declared and paid during the December quarter. As of January 31st, we had an unrestricted cash balance of $215 million, which is net of the $23.8 million down payment made on our VLGC and VLAC new building during January 2024.

We do not consolidate the PNL or balance sheet accounts of the Helios Pool, which has the effect of understating our reported cash. As of January 31, 2023, the pool held cash of $36.2 million, and since we have a roughly 86% economic interest in the pool, it equates to cash of approximately $31 million, which is not otherwise reported on our balance sheet. With a debt balance at quarter end of $623.8 million, our debt to total book capitalization sits at 38.8% and net debt to total book capitalization at 25.8%. As we previously reported, our banks agreed to increase our revolving credit facility from $20 million-$50 million and to add a $100 million accordion line for vessel acquisitions to the facility.

We are grateful for their support and for their endorsement of our stewardship of their capital. We've begun to evaluate various pre- and post-delivery financing options for our VLGC and VLAC, with an aim of maintaining our low debt costs and high level of financial flexibility. Looking forward, we expect our cash cost per day for the coming year to be in the range of $25,000-$26,000 per day, excluding capital expenditures for dry docking and potentially upgrades for ammonia capability in our existing fleet, which John will discuss later. For the discussion of our third quarter results, you also may find it useful to refer to the investor highlight slides posted this morning on our website. I would also remind you that my remarks will include a number of terms such as TCE, operating days, available days, and adjusted EBITDA.

Please refer to our filings for the definitions of these terms. For our third quarter chartering results, we achieved a TCE of $76,337 per operating day, with a total utilization of 93.6%, yielding utilization-adjusted TCE of about $71,431. This TCE result represents the best in the company's history. As our entire spot trading program is conducted through the Helios Pool, the spot results for Helios are the best measure of our spot chartering performance. For the December 31st quarter, the Helios Pool earned a spot TCE of $91,417 per day, which is the highest spot rate the pool has ever earned for a quarter.

On page four of the investor highlights material, you can see that we have five Dorian vessels on time charter within the pool, plus one MOL, MOL Energeia vessel, indicating spot exposure of about 75%-80% for the 27 vessels in the Helios pool. Turning to the quarter ending March 31, 2024, we currently have over 60% of the available days in the Helios Pool, booked at a time charter equivalent in excess of $100,000 per day, reflecting the very strong rates booked earlier for voyages that will be carried out this calendar quarter. Please note that that rate includes both spot fixtures and time charters. Our OpEx per calendar day, excluding dry docking costs, was $9,909, which was down somewhat sequentially from the prior quarter. Reductions in lubricants and spares and stores drove the decline.

Our time charter-in expense for the four time charter-in vessels came in at $8.4 million, which is lower than budgeted due to some fuel efficiency underperformance claims. Total G&A for the quarter was $7.7 million, and cash G&A, that is G&A excluding non-cash compensation expense, was about $6.3 million. Of that $6.3 million, about $500,000 included aid to our Ukrainian seafarers and some employee bonuses. Thus, our core G&A came in at roughly $5.8 million, which is consistent with our expectations. Non-cash compensation expense for the quarter was $1.4 million, which is consistent with the guidance that we gave last quarter. Our reported Adjusted EBITDA for the quarter was $133 million, which is the best quarterly Adjusted EBITDA in our corporate history.

Our adjusted EBITDA for the last 12 months is nearly $415 million. Turning to debt service, our cash interest expense, which we calculate as the sum of the line items interest expense, excluding deferred financing fees and other loan expenses, and realized gain loss on interest rate swap derivatives for the quarter, was $7.5 million, a decline of about $200,000 from the prior quarter, reflecting lower average debt and our all-in cost of debt of about 4.7%, which I would note is below current floating SOFR rates. Quarterly principal amortization remains steady at $13.3 million.

Our trailing 12-month net income is about $304 million, and with average book shareholders of equity for the same 12-month period of roughly $911 million, we generated a 33.4% return on shareholders' equity. We are proud of this result because it not only reflects the strong profitability that our pool platform can generate, it also shows that we've managed to keep our shareholders' equity at an appropriate level, balancing retention of capital while still paying out meaningful dividends to our shareholders. The $1 per share dividend declared last week and payable on February 27th to shareholders of record February fifth, 2024, brings our total dividends paid to $11.50 per share, or nearly $465 million in aggregate. We underscore.

Operator (participant)

Ladies and gentlemen, please stand by. We're experiencing technical difficulties, and our conference will begin momentarily. Thank you. Once again, ladies and gentlemen, please remain on line. Your teleconference will resume momentarily. Thank you. Thank you for standing by, ladies and gentlemen. Ted, please, please continue.

Ted Young (CFO)

Thanks, Rob. Again, we're positive on the long-term prospects of our business, but we are mindful of the near-term headwinds. With that, I'll pass it over to Tim Hansen.

Tim Hansen (CCO and Director)

Yeah, good day, everyone, and thanks for inviting in. As always, the VLGC market created some interesting times for the participants. As a record-setting strength of December contrasted sharply with the market during January 2024. The quarter ending December 31st, 2023, saw record-breaking high freight levels for VLGCs. The primary drivers of the firm freight market were the widening, widening U.S. to Asia arbitrage, several new restrictions applying to the Panama Canal, and subsequent vessel routing decisions amidst the uncertainty about the Panama and the Suez Canal transits. Turning first to the arbitrage in North America, production of natural gas liquids continued to increase inventories to record levels. This was amidst an unseasonably warm start to the winter.

The increased supply of LPG lowered the U.S. export prices, offsetting some of the short-term concerns about Asia import demand, as the latter was also experiencing a warm winter. The effect of the drought in Panama has been widely discussed. The Panama Canal introduced new restrictions on VLGC transits at the end of October. A severe reduction of water level necessitated a reduction in daily transits, with the cost of booking transits of VLGCs becoming more expensive. By the first week of November, auctions for new Panama Canal transits reached a peak of just under $4 million, and some operators faced the real possibility of not being able to secure a northbound transit.

VLGCs were opting for alternative routes, some turning around mid-Pacific to avoid uncertainty of the Panama Canal, and a few opting to ballast around South America, resulting in increased ton miles, as well as impacting lead time for owners and charters in estimating arrival in the U.S. Gulf for loading. The scheduling impact was eventually priced into the freight levels, and Laycan were fixed almost two months forward of the fixing window. The uncertainties about scheduling and the cost, impact applied for vessels in both ballast and in laden, with charters facing potentially restrictive high auction, prices at the Panama Canal or choosing the longer laden, passage via the Suez Canal. On average, the quarter ending December 2023 averaged 25 VLGCs ballasting to the U.S. Gulf via Suez per month. This compared to an average of 13 VLGCs per month on the quarter prior.

The Suez Canal routing was preferred for vessels in ballast and laden to such a degree that in December, the Baltic Index saw few rates, fixed under their agreed index of Houston, cheaper via Panama, terms, with the Baltic fixtures being reported on a Houston cheaper via Suez rate. The shift in pricing norms made assessment of the market more difficult, but testifies to the significant shift in trading routes for the VLGCs over the period. However, geopolitical tensions in the Middle East made the routing via Suez a short-lived solution. When drone and missile attacks in the Red Sea escalated during December, operators began to decline the Red Sea, route on grounds of safety, and VLGCs were pushed towards routing via the Cape of Good Hope.

For the first time in several years, more than 10 VLGCs ballasted via the Cape of Good Hope in one month. As a result, the added ton miles supported the freight market in the short term. Now, reflecting on how conditions can change. At the beginning of January, several factors increased the fleet lengths. Forecasts of a cold snap in January in the U.S. created an anticipation of a sudden increase in domestic LPG consumption, which began to be priced into the product market and reducing the West to East arbitrage, one of the key drivers. Also, the Far East Index prices were on the decline amidst Asian importers anticipating reduced import demand due to lower demand for heating. Therefore, the arbitrage started to narrow, impacting the normal arbitrage economics.

During January, six new building, or 29% of the expected, deliveries in 2024, were delivered, creating a sudden increase in the vessel supply for the first calendar quarter of 2024. Congestion in the Panama Canal declined significantly and rapidly this month. Contributing factors include the rerouting of ELTCs via Cape, lighter container vessel traffic, and increased rainfall in the Panama Canal. Initially, this unfortunately will create a temporary oversupply in both the U.S. Gulf and Far East ports, putting pressure on the rates as we've seen during this quarter, which should normalize as vessel supply is absorbed. Our freight market can be volatile and is subject to a wide range of factors that may influence short-term freight rates, but we also have a number of strong cyclical and superior factors in our favor.

A warmer spring climate in North America will contribute to more LPG supply at more favorable prices. The anticipation going forward is therefore more widening east, the West to East arc. We expect only 15 remaining new buildings to deliver this year compared to the 42 that were successfully absorbed last year. We expect the new buildings deliveries to be absorbed based on the forecasted increase in exports. We continue to see LPG take market share from other fuel sources, and in 2024, significant growth in propane dehydrogenation and steam cracking plants are expected, particularly in Asia. The Panama Canal congestion issues are far from solved. The daily transit numbers are still 10 transits less per day than in July 2023, and it's only expected to revert to the normal levels during the summer.

Rerouting of VLGCs and other segments back towards the Panama Canal will again increase the congestion. In addition to the VLGC new buildings, there is expected delivery of 73 LNG and 109 new Panamax container ships in 2024. This will increase the demand for passage of the canal, and we thus expect congestion to return and to be the norm rather than the exception in the canal. Routing via Suez and Cape VLGCs thus is expected to become more pronounced in 2024 due to the uncertainties of forecasting the Panama Canal transits and costs. Thus, we do remain positive on the medium- to long-term prospects for our business, while acknowledging that short-term volatility is ever present. With that, I'll pass you over to Mr. John Lycouris.

John Lycouris (CEO)

Thank you very much, Tim. At Dorian LPG, we firmly believe that we should be part of and provide long-term solutions to the world's decarbonization objectives and goals. Our investment in scrubbers continues to derive strong returns. Our average daily net savings over the quarter on our scrubber vessels stood at about $3,000 per day, $3,000 per day, or about $3.4 million for the quarter. Fuel differentials between high sulfur fuel oil and low sulfur fuel oil averaged about $202 in the last quarter of 2023. The pricing differential of the LPG as fuel versus fuel oil, low sulfur fuel oil, stood at about $183 per metric ton, which was helpful to dual fuel engine vessels when operating with LPG.

We now have a total of 14 scrubber-fitted vessels and one chartered-in vessel, and we plan to retrofit another vessel with a scrubber unit in the second quarter of 2024. The installations of energy-saving devices and the silicone hull coatings to our vessels have provided significant performance improvements in fuel savings, reduction of the fleet's CO2 emissions, and improved CII ratings. Besides our Captain vessel, Captain John NP, which was originally built as a VLGC, VLAC, as are now called, we are upgrading some of our vessels to carry ammonia, as it is quite feasible for a good portion of the world fleet to carry out such upgrades. The EU Emissions Trading System that came into effect in January 1, 2024, is applicable to all ships calling at EU ports.

Shipping companies will surrender their 2024 EU allowances latest by September 2025, and every year thereafter, and it will re-reflect the CO2 emissions while their vessels were trading in EU waters. In line with end user pays principle, the cost of complying with the EU ETS is passed by the owner to the time charter, who is ultimately responsible for the purchase and transfer of the monthly EU allowances to the owner's account. For spot voyages, we expect the EU allowances to be added to the freight invoice in line with the end user's pays rule. In continuation of Dorian's commitment to sustainability and improving the company greenhouse gas profile, we have recently invested into companies to seek solutions to climate issues from carbon and methane emissions.

Ionada is planning to market a compact modular carbon capture system for small and mid-sized carbon emitters that will be applicable to many industries, including marine applications. The patented technology claims 30% better efficiency than conventional carbon capture technologies, as it works with a large array of hollow fiber contactor membranes of absorbent solution, achieving about 90% capture of carbon dioxide in post-combustion flue gases. The second is Emvolon, which focuses on the avoidance of methane gas emissions from wasted resources such as landfill gas, biogas, and waste biomass. These emissions, instead of being vented or burned on site, are converted into high-value carbon-negative and carbon-neutral fuels like bioLNG, bioLPG, green methanol, and green ammonia.

The modular and scalable technology can be situated at methane emission sites, where it can be transformed into high-quality syngas and after treatment, consolidated and delivered to the energy, marine, and aviation industries. Finally, our recent new building contract to build a new VLGC-VLAC at Hanwha Ocean in South Korea is in line with our commitment to employ capital where we see commercial and financial opportunities for investment. We believe that the future green hydrogen economy will largely depend on large quantities of ammonia applying the seas on dedicated vessels. Besides earning good economic returns on such trades, we also firmly believe that we should be part of and provide long-term solutions to the world's decarbonization objectives and goals. And now, I would like to pass it over to John Hadjipateras for the closing comments. Questions?

John Hadjipateras (Chairman, President and CEO)

Thank you very much, John. We're happy to take questions from anyone who cares to ask them, please.

Operator (participant)

Thank you. If you'd like to ask a question at this time, please press star one from your telephone keypad, and a confirmation tone will indicate your line is in the question queue. You may press star two if you'd like to withdraw your question from the queue. For participants using speaker equipment, it may be necessary to pick up your handset before pressing the star keys. One moment please, while we poll for questions. Thank you. Thank you. Our first question will be coming from the line of Omar Nokta with Jefferies. Please proceed with your question.

Omar Nokta (Managing Director)

Thank you. Hey, guys. Good morning. Congrats, obviously, on a very strong and I guess record quarter. And Ted, I just wanted to ask if you could repeat maybe the guidance figure you mentioned, for the bookings to date. Did you say it was $100,000 for 60% of the quarter?

John Hadjipateras (Chairman, President and CEO)

Yeah, that's correct, Omar, in excess of $100,000 and in excess of 60% of the days.

Omar Nokta (Managing Director)

And that includes the, the TCs?

John Hadjipateras (Chairman, President and CEO)

That includes the pool TCs.

Omar Nokta (Managing Director)

Okay. All right, thank you. And then, just wanted to ask maybe, and I know, Tim, you touched on this, but obviously, you know, last year was a very strong year for VLGC. You had the big jump in U.S. export. You had the Panama Canal, which really all that offset the new buildings. And as you mentioned, the fleet was fully absorbed in. You know, so far, things have corrected over the past few weeks and perhaps look to have maybe overshot to the downside, and especially in relation to where, say, the low point was at this time last year. What do you see as driving the pullback in rates, and when can we start to expect things to turn around?

John Hadjipateras (Chairman, President and CEO)

Tim. Yeah. You asked Tim, so I'll let him... We have the same answer anyways. Yes, yes.

Tim Hansen (CCO and Director)

Yeah. So, I mean, you're right. We are at a lower point now than the drop of last year. And we are seeing these drop always in the first quarter at some point. But this year it was very quick and dramatic, but also coming from an exceptionally high point. So you would say the stars was aligned in one direction, and now they are in the other direction. I think that what we see is both an overreaction, and as I mentioned in the end, I think we will see, you know, U.S. inventory still very high.

So, even with a cold winter would not create the same worries that you have seen before of the U.S. running out of gas. So I think the pricing will align again quickly as soon as the worst cold is over. And also, one of the other factors is the Panama Canal, which we see every year that after the festive season in the U.S., the number of transits decline, and especially for the container business, that they are less busy passing in January and up to the Chinese holiday.

We see that situation as a temporary blip, and we think that it will return to congestion being the norm rather than the exception. As John mentioned, more new buildings on LNG and containers. So we see this coming, and we still see the transits are still way lower than it was last year, the number of transits available. And if you think that the new canal today only takes around seven a day transit.

So, if you add 100, there's 170-some ships, well, if you add the VLGCs, 100 and, you know, almost 200 ships, more for that, that can use the canal next year, and many of them is, that is their main trade route, then we see these congestions coming back. So I think, you know, to your question, when is it—when will we see a return? We think pretty soon, within this quarter, we will see this align, because I think it's been overshot on the downward side. So we do see these things correcting themselves.

But we're coming into the holidays in China soon, so that always put a little bit of a damp on the market. And also there are some cargoes on-sold on the water also, Iranian tons, that seems to be a problem to clear. So it could take a little while before we see the bounce back. But still within this quarter, we do expect this to correct up.

John Hadjipateras (Chairman, President and CEO)

Thanks, Tim. Thanks. Thanks. I would just add that, you know, we can never really tell which quarter it's gonna happen. We can give you what we think is guidance for an average for the rest of the year or whatever, but hopefully, they will... the market will react. And the question is, when it bounces, how well it bounces? So, as I said, I think before, when a market starts falling, it kind of forgets where to stop. So I think we're gonna hit bottom quickly, and then bounce back, but... Omar, there you go.

Omar Nokta (Managing Director)

Yeah. No, no.

John Hadjipateras (Chairman, President and CEO)

Maybe you know more.

Omar Nokta (Managing Director)

John

John Hadjipateras (Chairman, President and CEO)

You were looking for. Sorry.

Omar Nokta (Managing Director)

Yeah. No, that, that's very helpful, and that makes sense, John, what you just said, and obviously, you know, Tim, very, very good color. Appreciate, you kind of going into detail there. I did just, you know, a couple more for me, and I'll, and I'll turn it over. Maybe just first, sorry, next question is just on the Red Sea. Clearly, it's been very, very topical and front and center really, over the past few weeks. How would you size up the impact of what's going on in the Red Sea with the diversions? You know, how do you size up that impact on the VLGC trade, say, in comparison to what we've been seeing or had seen in the Panama Canal, last year?

John Hadjipateras (Chairman, President and CEO)

It's not so obvious, Omar, because the trade through the canal, through the Suez Canal, was almost kind of caused by the congestion in Panama. Also, the Suez Canal itself, I'm not sure. The Red Sea trade, it's the main VLGC trade out of the Red Sea is out of Jordan. And, in Jordan, sorry, not out of Jordan, out of Saudi Arabia, Yanbu. And, Jordan has absorbed some of the cargoes that would otherwise have gone east from Yanbu. And that has displaced some cargoes that would have come from the States. So that is a net negative on the ton mile.

On the other hand, Saudi could divert the loading of the cargoes from Jordan to Ras Tanura, which probably will happen. So then, that total number of ships coming out of the Red Sea was, I think, four to five a month out of Yanbu, representing about 30% of the exports from Saudi Arabia. So it's not. It's because we're in a flux, I don't think it's easy to kind of predict what the eventual impact of the hostilities in that region will be. I mean-

Omar Nokta (Managing Director)

Got it. No, that, that's-

John Hadjipateras (Chairman, President and CEO)

Let me tell you that I don't know.

Omar Nokta (Managing Director)

Well, I appreciate you attempting to, to, or at least, you know, summarizing all that, because that's helpful context as well. Thanks, John. And then maybe just final one for me, just on the new building and just kind of thinking about, you know, John, the previous comments about outfitting the existing fleet to carry ammonia. I guess just one, the question on that would be: you know, what does the cost look like to upgrade for ammonia? And then also, in terms of the new building, is there a price difference in ordering a VLAC versus a VLGC? And maybe just some, I guess, some multiple questions,

but-... What's the difference between a VLAC and a VLGC, I guess, going forward?

John Lycouris (CEO)

Yeah, Omar, it is a cost that over a number of ships is going to be quite low. But, we have been looking into this for some years now, and we think that it is significantly less than $5 million, and probably even lower than that, when it is amortized over a number of ships. So it is something that is, let's say, it takes time, but it is not a significant cost to carry out those conversions.

John Hadjipateras (Chairman, President and CEO)

Omar, we're mindful of that because it as it applies to our, not all our ships, but some of our ships, it also applies to a good number of the world fleet. So, people—we shouldn't get too carried away with new building dedicated ammonia carriers, when a good part of the fleet, the existing fleet of VLGCs, could be, you know, maybe less efficient than a new ship, but they could still carry ammonia with some modifications and upgrades.

Omar Nokta (Managing Director)

Understood. Okay, well, thank you. I appreciate the time. I'll turn it over.

John Lycouris (CEO)

Yeah.

Operator (participant)

Thank you. Our next question is from the line of Øystein Vaagen with Pareto Securities. Please proceed with your questions.

Øystein Vaagen (Equity Research Analyst)

Hey, guys. Just a quick question from me. You know, as you just discussed, your rates have been quite high over the last couple of months, and this winter are astonishingly high. But, you know, you booked $91,000, roughly, on the spot and pool for the fourth quarter. But again, that's not really up at the highs as we saw spot rates go to $140,000. Now you're talking about $100,000, which I guess makes sense as ship owners take some coverage on the way up. But my question is now, with spot rate, and this is now below cash break-even levels and, you know, close to OpEx, what kind of levels are you fixing at today? Does it work differently on the way down as well?

Ted Young (CFO)

Well, Øystein, I'd say a couple of things. First of all, just to be clear, on you know the results that we mentioned going forward, there is a measure of time charter ships in there, which are lower. The spot market rates that are booked in that forward number are, they're very attractive. And as for current fixing, look, that's pretty commercially sensitive information. We, as a general matter, don't really comment on it. But you know, Tim wants to give a little bit more, he may.

But I'd say in general, when we've talked, when he's described his strategy to us, look, our guys have been proven to be pretty good at figuring out when cargoes are going to be available and how many ships are going to be available to meet the Laycan, and kind of flexing our planning around that. Tim, if you want to add anything to that, feel free or not.

Tim Hansen (CCO and Director)

Yeah, you can say that, you know, the drop was pretty quick. So only things that has been fixed was kind of like what was in the front. So as you say, you take a couple on the way down, but it actually we had fixed pretty far forward already, so we didn't have much to fix in the fixing window when market dropped. So most of our positions comes only available more than a month ahead from now. So as the market has been dropping, then people doesn't fix that far ahead. So we're not really that much on the fixing window yet, so we'll see if it turns around before we get there. But yeah.

Øystein Vaagen (Equity Research Analyst)

Thanks. Okay. And just, you know, to add on, are you, you know, fixing window now in the market in general? Is that early March now, or where are we now?

Tim Hansen (CCO and Director)

Well, we must go to-

John Hadjipateras (Chairman, President and CEO)

We may not...

Sorry, but we don't, we don't want to go too much into this market mechanism.

Ted Young (CFO)

It's commercially sensitive.

Tim Hansen (CCO and Director)

Yeah, yeah.

Øystein Vaagen (Equity Research Analyst)

Okay, understood. Thank you.

Tim Hansen (CCO and Director)

Thank you.

John Hadjipateras (Chairman, President and CEO)

Thanks, Øystein.

Operator (participant)

Thank you. We've reached the end of the question and answer session. I'll now turn the call over to John Hadjipateras for closing remarks.

John Hadjipateras (Chairman, President and CEO)

Thank you, Rob. Thank you for your questions, my—our two valued questioners. And have a good quarter, have a good February, and see you next time.