MillerKnoll - Q3 2023
March 22, 2023
Transcript
Operator (participant)
Good evening, welcome to MillerKnoll's Third Quarter Earnings Conference Call. As a reminder, this call is being recorded. After the speaker's remarks, there will be a Q&A session. If you would like to ask a question during this time, simply press star one on your telephone keypad. If you would like to withdraw your question, you may press star one again. I would now like to introduce your host for today's conference, Vice President of Investor Relations, Carola Mengolini.
Carola Mengolini (VP of Investor Relations)
Thank you, Lisa. Good evening, welcome to MillerKnoll's third quarter fiscal 2023 conference call. I am joined by Andi Owen, Chief Executive Officer, and Jeff Stutz, Chief Financial Officer. Also available during the Q&A session are John Michael, President of Americas Contract, and Debbie Propst, President of Global Retail. Before I turn the call over to Andi, please remember our safe harbor regarding forward-looking information. During the call, management may discuss information that is forward-looking and involves known and unknown risks, uncertainties, and other factors which may cause the actual results to be different than those expressed or implied. Please evaluate the forward-looking information in the context of these factors, which are detailed in today's press release. The forward-looking statements are as of today and assume no obligation to update or supplement these statements.
We may also refer to certain non-GAAP financial metrics, which are reconciled and described in our press release posted on our investor relations website at millerknoll.com. With that, I will turn the call over to Andi. Andi?
Andi Owen (CEO)
Thanks, Carola. Good evening, everyone, thank you so much for joining our call. Throughout this quarter, our team delivered strong earnings and margin improvement despite challenging economic conditions. We have many competitive advantages. We have a collection of strong design brands which are sold across multiple business channels and that cater to the different customer segments around the globe. We're nimble. We're capturing synergies, reducing our cost structure, and optimizing our capabilities so that we're positioned to capture opportunities as and when the macroeconomic picture improves. To be sure, this is a disruptive period. Traditional office usage and layouts are not as relevant as they once were, new opportunities exist to help our customers design more hybrid, collaborative work environments. Our contract clients continue to engage us in conversations around reimagining their workspaces, both to enhance their employee experience and to create multi-use spaces.
Because of this, the volume of customer discussion remains very high, and the funnel of potential project opportunities is robust, albeit somewhat uncertain in terms of timing. These customer interactions continue to emphasize the importance of nontraditional product categories to home and office settings. We believe that this pivot to premium ancillary product solutions give MillerKnoll, and our distribution partners, a distinct competitive advantage given our best-in-class collective of brands. To this end, I will highlight the great performance of some of our smaller luxury brands, such as HOLLY HUNT, Muuto, and Spinneybeck-FilzFelt, which support our strategy towards a diversified global business model that includes luxury ancillary products that cater to both a residential and commercial client base. As we continue to build our presence as one collective of MillerKnoll brands, we're also seeing a new pattern emerge with our dealers and the way we're winning businesses.
Now, with more offerings across our portfolio, we are better suited to win whole floor plan solutions than ever before. We're also using this transitional period across our industry as a strategic opportunity on many fronts: introducing innovative products, pursuing new sector expansion, and investing in our digital capabilities, all of which permits us to further our reach and remove friction points for our dealers and our customers. As it pertains to our retail segment, we believe that higher interest rates have temporarily slowed new and second home buying and in some cases also delayed decisions to upgrade and renovate current spaces. Additionally, we're seeing customers temporarily shift more of their discretionary spend towards travel and leisure.
Although we believe this is a short-term trend due to pent-up demand after an extended period of pandemic-related isolation, all of this, we are preparing for a near-term slowdown in our demand environment. Although this won't jeopardize our long-term growth strategies, we know that it's happening. To the end, we're analyzing and reviewing our retail footprint. We will continue to expand our reach through targeted channel development and digital experiences. During the quarter, we finished converting HAY stores in the U.S. into DWR spaces in several key marketplaces. On the other hand, based on the success of HAY's wholesale business in Europe, we opened our first HAY shop-in-shop with Nordstrom here in the U.S. Through a wholesale partner, we also opened our first Herman Miller and Knoll stores in Shanghai. We're strategically expanding our international business.
Around the world, different regions are in varying phases of return to office. Due to our global footprint, we continue to capture business in areas with more favorable economic conditions such as the Middle East, Asia, and India, to name a few. Our global reach, our unmatched product portfolio, and our expertise in varied areas such as healthcare, education, and hospitality are a meaningful advantage. We're also making strategic choices to prioritize projects and opportunities that drive sales and margin expansion across all channels. I'll share a few examples. Through our integration work, we continue to capture cost synergies with $123 million of implemented savings to date as we work our way towards our goal of $140 million. We're creating centers of excellence to deliver improved quality, reliability, and production lead time.
Our Geiger facility in Hildebran, North Carolina, does incredible work, and we're shifting more MillerKnoll production there, creating a center of excellence for premium upholstery and craft wood products. We're also looking across our global operations network and identifying where we have available capacity and unharnessed capabilities. We will move production to the places that are best suited to manufacture items versus having solely brand-dedicated facilities. For example, during the quarter, we shared our decision to shift some metal fabrication work from Toronto to East Greenville, Pennsylvania. We're fine-tuning our brand portfolio. With multiple brands and channels, we can select where and how we sell items. This quarter, we began the work to wind down Fully as a standalone brand and sales channel. Going forward, select Fully products will be sold through our existing Design Within Reach and Herman Miller channels.
Before I hand the call over to Jeff, I want to highlight that we continue to lead through innovative design. During the third quarter, we launched a variety of exciting new products across our collective of brands. In addition, we continue to deliver against our sustainability goals, reducing our carbon footprint, and using sustainable materials. For example, Herman Miller was recently recognized by the Chemical Footprint Project for our commitment to minimizing chemical footprints and integrating criteria for better alternatives into our design practices. In the months ahead, we'll continue to manage our business, taking into consideration the macroeconomic pressures we are all experiencing. Vigorously controlling the factors that we can, leaning into our strategy, and adapting our business priorities to anchor on our best assets and to continue to develop areas where we see future success.
As we navigate a variety of market conditions around the world, we're prioritizing our work around innovation and what drives our business, where there is margin to gain, where there are opportunities to build for future success, and ensuring that our customers turn to us first. With that, I'll turn the call over to Jeff for his prepared remarks.
Jeff Stutz (CFO)
Thanks, Andi, and good evening, everyone. We appreciate you joining us. During this quarter, we delivered adjusted earnings of $0.54 per share, beating our guidance and significantly outperforming the same period last year. While net sales came in lower than the same time last year, we experienced another quarter of strong margin expansion that contributed to our improved performance. At the consolidated level, net sales in the third quarter of $984.7 million decreased 4.4% on a reported basis and 2.7% organically compared with the same quarter last year. Consolidated orders for the quarter were $885.4 million, reflecting an organic decline of 17.6% from the same quarter last year.
Softer demand tied to global macroeconomic uncertainty and elevated comparables in the third quarter of last year resulted in the year-over-year pressure for orders in each of our business segments. Within our Americas Contract segment, net sales for the quarter totaled $484.6 million. This represents a year-over-year decrease of 4.9% on a reported basis and an organic decrease of 4.5%. New orders for this segment came to $461.6 million, reflecting a decrease of 12.6% from the same quarter last year on a reported basis and down 11.8% organically. During the past few months, general economic uncertainty and the impact of rising interest rates have weighed on business and consumer sentiment levels. The result has been slowing demand patterns and further delays in customer return-to-office timelines.
With all that said, gross and operating margins in the Americas segment have continued to improve as expected, driven by net pricing benefit and the impact of integration cost synergies. For the quarter, operating margins for this segment improved 980 basis points on an adjusted basis versus the same period last fiscal year. Within our Global Retail segment, net sales in the quarter were $257.6 million, a decrease of 7.7% compared to the same period last year on a reported basis, and down 5.5% organically. New orders totaled $213.7 million in the third quarter, down 23.5% compared to the same quarter last year on a reported basis and down 21% organically.
Here again, macroeconomic pressures and increased stock market volatility have eroded consumer sentiment and buying activity. Overall margin performance in this segment did improve sequentially from the second quarter but remained lower on a year-over-year comparison due to elevated freight expenses and higher inventory costs that we outlined for you last quarter. As Andi mentioned, this quarter we made the decision to cease operating Fully as a standalone brand. By integrating Fully into our Global Retail organization, we will reduce operating costs and further optimize our retail structure. As part of our commitment and focus to drive profitable growth and streamline our organization, we're constantly reviewing our channels to market, products, and processes to identify ways to leverage our strengths. This decision is an example of that.
Turning to our International Contract and Specialty segment, net sales for the quarter were $242.5 million, reflecting an increase of 0.6% on a reported basis and an increase of 4.3% organically. New orders in this segment were $210.1 million, which is down 27.2% year-over-year on a reported basis and down 24.5% organically. From an adjusted operating margin perspective, this segment delivered strong year-over-year improvement with an increase of 270 basis points, mostly driven by pricing actions taken earlier in the year and favorable product mix. Shifting back to the enterprise-level results, we were pleased this quarter to report a meaningful improvement in margin performance.
Our consolidated adjusted gross margin in the period was 35.7%, the adjusted operating margin was 7.5%. These results are 260 and 340 basis points higher than the same period last year, respectively. Higher pricing, benefits from cost synergies, and reduction in variable compensation more than offset higher commodity costs and other inflationary pressures to drive these positive increases. Turning to cash flows in the balance sheet, this quarter we generated $75.7 million of cash flow from operations and paid down $18.1 million of debt.
Moreover, as part of our focus on maintaining a strong balance sheet, this quarter we executed an interest rate hedge, which provides an immediate reduction in current interest expense, and together with our previous three hedge instruments, has provided a fixed interest on 65% of our total bank debt. We ended the period with a net debt to EBITDA ratio as defined in our credit agreement of 2.6 turns. Now I'll talk about our guidance for next quarter. The outlook reflects a revenue guide that is informed by the recent order trends. To this end, we expect net sales to range between $930 million and $970 million, and adjusted earnings to be between $0.37 and $0.43 per share.
Before we open the call for your questions, I just want to highlight that our focus and actions toward diversifying our business, driving profitable growth, and capturing cost synergies are helping us navigate short-term macroeconomic challenges. Most importantly, they're strategically positioning us to capture further top-line and margin expansion when the macroeconomic trends improve. With those prepared remarks, I'll turn the call back over to the operator and we'll take your questions.
Operator (participant)
Thank you. As a reminder, that is star one on your telephone keypad to ask a question. We'll take our first question from Greg Burns with Sidoti & Company.
Greg Burns (Research Analyst)
Good afternoon. Could you just talk about the order trends in the early part of this quarter? Have you seen any improvement or, you know, has it stayed about the same?
Jeff Stutz (CFO)
Yeah. Hi, Greg Burns, this is Jeff. I'll take that. You know, the good news is we did see improved trends as we made our way through the quarter, really across each of our three business segments. While we ended the quarter, in the organic numbers that I gave you, in my prepared remarks, order entry levels in the month of February, for example, were actually better than the full quarter trend in each of the three segments. We did see some improvement. In the first couple of weeks of Q4, I would say generally that's continued.
Greg Burns (Research Analyst)
Okay. Just specifically the decline you saw internationally, that, the International segment has kind of been an outperformer relative to North America, but it seems like it's catching down. Is there anything in particular going on there?
Andi Owen (CEO)
I think there's a couple things, Greg, then I'll turn it back to Jeff. I think the international business is a little lumpier as far as timing and placing orders. I think that if you think about last year, they had an amazing quarter with the price increase that we instituted, and so they're up against really significant comps. I think there's a little bit of timing in quarter-over-quarter, and there's a little bit of a comparison to last year in international. We are seeing more weakness in the European business than we are across the globe, and we're seeing China come back a little more slowly than we had thought. I think on the whole, long-term, we feel very optimistic. Jeff, what would you add?
Jeff Stutz (CFO)
Yeah. The only thing I would add, Greg, I think this is an important reminder really for all of the comps across our consolidated group, that a year ago, Q3, we had an amazingly strong quarter in order entry in particular. Just to kind of remind everybody, we had 74% order growth in the third quarter of last year in our International segment. We've never seen anything even that touches those types of percentages. Remarkable growth. These were tough comps. Even in the Americas segment, we had growth that was up 37% in the year ago period.
You know, look, I'm always cautious about, you know, pointing to comps, but this is one of those moments where it matters because I do think that, you know, those were remarkably strong numbers a year ago.
Greg Burns (Research Analyst)
In terms of your synergy targets, I know Fully was a Knoll brand. Is this part of that 140, the savings there, or is this incremental to that? Are there any other brands that are up for maybe being absorbed into your broader network?
Andi Owen (CEO)
Yes, this is part of the synergy savings, Greg. It's a great question. As part of the integration process, we will continue for the next, you know, however many months to go through and evaluate what is profitable, what are the right decisions, and certainly we'll let you guys know when we make those decisions and when they're public. Right now, Fully is the only place that we've made that decision, and it is the right thing to do. Always hard to do, but the right thing to do.
Greg Burns (Research Analyst)
Okay, thank you.
Operator (participant)
We'll take our next question from Reuben Garner with Benchmark Company.
Reuben Garner (Senior Equity Research Analyst)
Thank you. Good evening, everybody.
Jeff Stutz (CFO)
Reuben.
Andi Owen (CEO)
Reuben.
Reuben Garner (Senior Equity Research Analyst)
Jeff, maybe to start, operating expenses in the third quarter came in, I think lower than you guys were looking for. It looks like there's a step-up in dollars in the next revenue. Can you kind of walk through maybe what was different for you in the third quarter?
Jeff Stutz (CFO)
Yeah.
Reuben Garner (Senior Equity Research Analyst)
Is there any seasonality of spending or anything else that would lead to the step-up in the next quarter?
Jeff Stutz (CFO)
Yeah, happy to, Reuben. You're spot on. And I would tell you that given order trends, just in general terms, we are really taking every measure to manage costs in line with lower demand levels. That's just a general overview comment. I would tell you that one of the big factors in the third quarter, and this speaks to our guide for Q4 as well, is the impact of declining volumes around incentive compensation as an example. We did see some of those accruals come down in the third quarter. You won't get a repeat of that in Q4, if that makes sense. That's one of the factors that's causing some lumpiness there.
I would also tell you that we historically, and I think you know this from past, we tend to see some seasonal uptick between Q3 and Q4 in spend rates just as we ready ourselves for the, for, you know, new product releases and so forth that tend to be seasonal as we move into the early part of summer. I think all of those factors combined, cause that. Look, I would tell you that those programs work as designed. They're variable, in nature, and when you see volume levels drop, you see those come down. I think, it's, it's no surprise, but it is a factor that influenced the comparison to the guide.
Reuben Garner (Senior Equity Research Analyst)
Okay. Same kind of line of questioning on the gross margin side. It looks like with your guidance for the next quarter, you're still kind of on the path that you laid out at the end of last year, and that's what I think is despite less volume than you probably would have otherwise thought and then maybe less mix of the higher margin retail. Is that right? If so, can you kind of walk through what's kind of improved sequentially? Is it simply price flowing through and finally some deflation or inflationary relief?
Jeff Stutz (CFO)
I think you're hitting on a couple of the key points, Reuben. By the way, I appreciate the observation because this is an area that we wanted to make sure we emphasize and that we feel really good about. I mean, the margin expansion across the business is every bit as strong as we had expected it to be, and I think it's encouraging to see it even as demand levels have fallen. That's been a message that we've consistently been sending that we think we can achieve that. We feel really good about that. I think our guide, if you look just sequentially from Q3, a couple of things that inform that, pricing is one of them. You mentioned that. That's somewhere on the order of 30 basis points.
We're gonna get a little bit of lift from commodities. We are seeing a couple areas where we're starting to see market prices move around, even some reinflation. Look at market price of steel, for example. That's been ticking up of late. We still believe that as a basket, commodities will be favorable to us sequentially. The other thing that I'd point out is there's a mix factor in there that's gonna help, I wanna give a shout-out to the retail side of the business. We've had a couple of quarters here where we've had some one-offs that we've talked to you about, things like inventory storage costs and so forth that have pressured margins.
We expect those to meaningfully improve as we move into Q4. That's another driver of that expected increase in gross margin.
Andi Owen (CEO)
Last thing I would add, Jeff, is just, you know, you start to see synergy capture coming through that line as well. As we continue to capture more and more synergies, we will also see that on the margin on that Y line. Yes, we're very pleased about that.
Reuben Garner (Senior Equity Research Analyst)
All right. I'm gonna sneak one more in. A follow-up on Fully. Can you help? Is that something that you're now able to do because of developments with hermanmiller.com and, you know, internal kind of initiatives versus some kind of structural change? I just thought that Fully was offering something that maybe you guys didn't have before, or maybe it was just Knoll didn't. Can you kind of, I guess, dig into that a little bit more?
Andi Owen (CEO)
Yeah, it's a, it's a great question, Reuben. I think when Knoll acquired Fully, and I certainly can't speak for that company back then, but it offered them a digital avenue to market that they didn't have. We have that, and we have a very well-established one as well as a retail business. As we look across the organization and find redundancies, it's important that we, you know, address those. We have a great, you know, retail channel to market. We have great Fully products. We don't need the duplication that we've had. Although Fully is a small portion of our business, it has been break even to money losing at best. For us, this was the right decision, and we can still maintain the great products.
We can still bring them to market in a very meaningful way, and we don't need to lose that. We can lose some of the extra costs that was making it not a profitable equation for us.
Reuben Garner (Senior Equity Research Analyst)
Got it. Thanks, guys, and good luck going forward.
Andi Owen (CEO)
Thank you.
Operator (participant)
We'll take our next question from Budd Bugatch with Water Tower Research.
Budd Bugatch (Senior Research Analyst)
Good afternoon, Jeff. Good afternoon, Andi and the team. Congratulations.
Andi Owen (CEO)
Afternoon, Budd.
Budd Bugatch (Senior Research Analyst)
Yep. Can you hear me? Am I coming through?
Andi Owen (CEO)
Yeah.
Jeff Stutz (CFO)
Yep.
Andi Owen (CEO)
We can hear you. Yeah, you're coming through.
Budd Bugatch (Senior Research Analyst)
Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Congratulations on managing the margins in this. I think that's impressive. The differences, at least to my model, mostly center in the Americas, which I don't suspect is a big surprise in terms of particularly the revenue. I know John, you said that the order patterns have started to improve. Can you at least put some quantification on that? Are we looking at positive orders year-over-year in terms of what you're seeing in the last couple of weeks of the quarter or maybe the first couple of weeks of the next?
Jeff Stutz (CFO)
Yeah, Budd, this is Jeff. What I would tell you is that we started the quarter lagging pretty. You know, we were down double-digit percentage. We improved in January and February to single digit. The percentage still declines, but an improving trend line, and that has, it's moved a little bit in the first couple of weeks of Q4, but nowhere near as low as it was to start back in December. I you know, it's still pressure. Wouldn't wanna leave you with the wrong impression there. That coupled with the fact, and John, maybe you can speak to this a little bit. I think we're getting some feedback, by the way.
Andi Owen (CEO)
Operator, are we hearing some feedback on the line? Are you hearing that?
Operator (participant)
Yes, ma'am, I am hearing that.
Andi Owen (CEO)
Thank you. Bud, can you hear us?
Budd Bugatch (Senior Research Analyst)
Yeah, I can hear you. I can hear you fine. I'm not getting the feedback, so I don't think it's coming. Okay.
Andi Owen (CEO)
Okay, great.
Budd Bugatch (Senior Research Analyst)
I think it's coming from my line.
Andi Owen (CEO)
Well, keep going then.
Budd Bugatch (Senior Research Analyst)
Yeah. Sorry, we were getting a little feedback in the room. Yeah. I would say that trend, which is at least moving in the right direction, albeit still year-on-year pressure, combined with some of the funnel metrics that we're seeing, and I don't know, John, if you wanna speak to that gives us some encouragement here.
John Michael (President of Americas Contract)
Yeah. Thank you, Jeff. Hi, Budd. From a funnel perspective, we've seen significant growth in the over $1 million size projects. Something we really haven't seen a lot of since sort of pre-pandemic days, if you will. Seeing a lot of activity there. The overall funnel is up quarter-to-quarter as well. I think from Q3 to Q4, our net funnel additions were up 38%. The activity seems to be percolating a bit, and that gives us obviously some encouragement to see some change in order trend over time as well.
Budd Bugatch (Senior Research Analyst)
When you're talking about funnel, you're talking about visits and projects you're bidding on, or is there something more concrete to what you define as the funnel?
John Michael (President of Americas Contract)
It's identified project and account opportunities that our sellers have identified and are pursuing in the market. They're live projects that we're tracking in pursuit of.
Budd Bugatch (Senior Research Analyst)
The BIFMA numbers, at least as we see them on a monthly basis, look like we're getting into a situation where orders are just about flat year-over-year. Not quite, but getting there. The fact that you're still down single digits, does that mean that you're performing a little bit behind BIFMA, or the rest of the industry?
Andi Owen (CEO)
I think you have to look at BIFMA with a grain of salt. I mean, depending on how all of the players are reporting their numbers and what's included in contract and if there's other, I mean, I wouldn't say that you can make that leap necessarily.
Budd Bugatch (Senior Research Analyst)
Okay. I always take those numbers with a little bit of a grain of salt indeed.
Andi Owen (CEO)
Okay, good. We appreciate that.
Budd Bugatch (Senior Research Analyst)
Yeah. Jeff, can you give us maybe kind of an MD&A read of going from a walk from gross margin, either segment level or overall level, as to what drove the difference? 'Cause where's the contribution margin right now with all the changes that you're experiencing or with all the difficulties in the environment?
Jeff Stutz (CFO)
Yeah. Happy to talk. I'm gonna keep it at the enterprise level, Budd, just cause we don't guide at the segment level, but happy to talk kind of at the Inc. level for the business. I'll just walk you year-over-year for the third quarter. You know, pricing was the big story for us this quarter, and it really has been. That was a favorable 400+ basis point move in gross margins. Again, that's particularly encouraging because we have been expecting it and we're getting it, which is great.
The other positive is that we had a little bit of positive, around 60 basis points best we can estimate from overall product mix shifts that have been in our favor. That's across all of our channels, by the way. That can be channel mix, and it can also be product mix. Commodities are actually, you know, after many, many quarters of significant pressure from commodities, we're starting to see those flatten out. They were slightly negative. We had about a 20 basis point year-on-year drag from net commodity impacts on the business, but much improved from where they've been. We did lose some overhead from lower production levels.
As you know, when order levels drop in the business and you get less production, you see that on the labor and overhead line. We lost about 70 basis points year on year from overhead leverage. Freight and transportation costs continued to be a pressure in total. We were 90 basis points down year on year from freight and transportation. The thing I'd say about that is we're seeing it's stubbornly slow, but we're seeing improvement. I think particularly in the retail side of our business, we're seeing still elevated inbound freight costs, mainly coming out of Europe, where container rates and shipping costs just haven't come down as fast as what we've seen out of Asia. That's one kind of nuance to the business.
In total for the enterprise, 90 basis points of freight. The last thing I'd point out is, I mentioned this wasn't a surprise to us. We knew this was gonna be a factor. 50 basis points of that storage fee impact that we had in the retail side of the business, that inventory demurrage and storage fees that I talked about on the call last quarter, was 50 basis points of pressure year-over-year. The good news is that's behind us now, and that should be-
Budd Bugatch (Senior Research Analyst)
That's a. I'm sorry. That was a -140 then with a 90 and a 50? Is that sit in?
Jeff Stutz (CFO)
Yeah. Freight between freight and the retail storage, that's -140. That's correct.
Budd Bugatch (Senior Research Analyst)
All right. Demurrage is done. I hate that word. I hate the fact of paying that money.
Jeff Stutz (CFO)
Do we. Turns out so do we.
Budd Bugatch (Senior Research Analyst)
Unfortunately, it took a lot of my personal wealth about 30 years ago. Can you also give us maybe on a GAAP basis, what the GAAP guidance would be for EPS? I know with the adjusted is $0.37 to $0.43. What would the GAAP be? What's the adjustment number?
Jeff Stutz (CFO)
The only known adjustment would be the impact of amortization costs on purchased intangibles from the Knoll acquisition. That's, I think, on the order of $6 million a quarter. Beyond that there, you know, we may, we may well have other adjustments, but they're certainly not known at this point.
Budd Bugatch (Senior Research Analyst)
They're not in the, they're not in the guidance. The guidance, so if you do that-
Jeff Stutz (CFO)
Yep.
Budd Bugatch (Senior Research Analyst)
Okay. And your guiding on tax rate is the same as has been, or where is that gonna be?
Jeff Stutz (CFO)
Yeah. We figure 22% to 24%, same as where we've been.
Budd Bugatch (Senior Research Analyst)
Okay. Just a couple more from me, these are more niche. That $4.6 million, I think, of restructuring, is that all Fully?
Jeff Stutz (CFO)
The Fully restructuring. Well, no. We had total special charge items in the quarter of just over $52 million, I think, Bud. 37 of which relates to the Fully decision, and those were impairment of things like leases.
Budd Bugatch (Senior Research Analyst)
Oh, okay.
Jeff Stutz (CFO)
Some inventory valuation reserve. Yep, yep. The majority of it was related to Fully, but not the total amount.
Budd Bugatch (Senior Research Analyst)
The $4.6 million in restructuring, where did that? What was the restructuring? What did you do there?
Jeff Stutz (CFO)
That would have related, Bud, to actions that were announced in Q2 associated with early retirement and some workforce reductions that have a tail as we move through the balance of the fiscal year, just based on the timing of exits.
Budd Bugatch (Senior Research Analyst)
Okay. That's split, it's probably mostly in Americas. Is that right? I think that's where it should be mostly. Okay. I see it. Last for me is the incentive comp. Can you quantify what that was in the quarter? How much that helped in the quarter?
Jeff Stutz (CFO)
I'm not gonna quantify it, Bud. It was a primary driver in the operating expense reduction year-on-year.
Budd Bugatch (Senior Research Analyst)
The reason that doesn't repeat is you've already made that reduction for. You had a similar reduction last year. I mean, you all always have that variable issue when revenues don't quite make expectations.
John Michael (President of Americas Contract)
Yeah. That is correct.
Jeff Stutz (CFO)
Yep. It just depends on kind of business conditions at a given point in time and the kind of the outlook for the balance of the year.
Budd Bugatch (Senior Research Analyst)
It's already. You say we shouldn't expect that to recur? Or we should?
Jeff Stutz (CFO)
Correct.
Budd Bugatch (Senior Research Analyst)
Okay.
Jeff Stutz (CFO)
You should not expect that to recur.
Budd Bugatch (Senior Research Analyst)
I hope I said that right, or I hope. I'm still a little confused. We'll get that squared away at a later time. Thank you. Thank you very much. Good luck to you on the fourth quarter and going into next year. Hopefully, we find some sort of normalcy to, as society.
John Michael (President of Americas Contract)
Agreed. Thank you, Bud.
Budd Bugatch (Senior Research Analyst)
Thank you.
Operator (participant)
We'll take our next question from Steven Ramsey with Thompson.
Steven Ramsey (Senior Equity Analyst)
Hi, good evening.
Andi Owen (CEO)
Hi, Steven.
Steven Ramsey (Senior Equity Analyst)
Hi. Maybe to start with just bringing the Americas orders and demand into the context of, you know, companies, more companies laying off workers, you know, the tug-of-war against companies wanting workers in the office and recognizing the value. Realize the near term maybe is a headwind, how is that shaping conversations for the longer term, maybe as you look into the second half of calendar 2023 and beyond?
Andi Owen (CEO)
You know, it's a great question, Steven. John alluded earlier to the amount of activity that we're seeing, and I think it's directly related to returning to work, to leaders of companies wanting to find ways to get people back in the office, and also, frankly, people coming back into the office and enjoying being together and collaborating again. We are seeing an uptick in activity, looking to find creative ways to change spaces, to adapt to the new workforce, to adapt to hybrid. More activity than we have in the past, and I think that's shaping how we can help people make these decisions and how they can think about their workspaces. John, what specifics would you add for the Americas?
John Michael (President of Americas Contract)
Oh, thanks, Andi. I would add that literally every C-level conversation we're having, probably for the last 90 days, those executives are looking for help to get their employees back in the office. I think they understand the importance of return to office for all the reasons we've all talked about in the past, culture, connections, collaboration, et cetera. I think they're becoming bolder in terms of their desire to have people back because they're understanding the business impact of not having their employees back in the workplace. I think to your point, ultimately, that will, you know, change from a headwind to at least neutral, if not a bit of a tailwind, as companies come to grips with that.
Steven Ramsey (Senior Equity Analyst)
Okay, great. Shifting to international, you talked about new markets and geographies through local accounts. Can you share if this is a new initiative or a stronger push than the past? Is this going to be a major sales benefit in the next couple of quarters, or will this have to build up over time?
Andi Owen (CEO)
You know, we have been investing in and developing our international sales team, expanding our dealer network internationally for the last several years. I would say we stand more ready now than we did a couple of years ago to capture the opportunities in different markets than we did before. We've had great leadership there, and we continue to have great leadership there. Because we have such a varied presence, we can capitalize on the markets where we see opportunities. I would say it's been a conscious effort, not a new one, but one where I think we'll start to reap the benefits, as we find these opportunities. Jeff, what would you add?
Jeff Stutz (CFO)
Yeah. Stephen, the only thing that I would add to that is, you know, this is one of those areas where I think the combination of Herman Miller and Knoll plays to our advantage here because we now have new tools and new solutions that we can offer existing dealer partners in markets like India or markets like Korea or even in Europe, where the Knoll product lines give us solutions that we couldn't previously offer our customers, and it opens doors. We're very encouraged and have high expectations for that.
Steven Ramsey (Senior Equity Analyst)
Gotcha. Okay. Last quick one for me on the Fully shift. I may have missed this, but how quickly does that help profitability in the retail channel? Is that pretty immediate, or will that take time to build up?
Andi Owen (CEO)
We'll be unwinding this in the next quarter, then we'll see it in Q1. Remember, this is a small portion of the piece of the retail business. Jeff, you wanna add something specific?
Jeff Stutz (CFO)
No, I think that's, I think that's fair.
Steven Ramsey (Senior Equity Analyst)
Okay, great. Thank you.
Andi Owen (CEO)
Thank you.
Operator (participant)
We'll take our next question from Alex Fuhrman with Craig-Hallum Capital Group.
Alex Fuhrman (Senior Research Analyst)
Hey, guys. Thanks for taking my question. You know, first and foremost, if I could just ask maybe to square a little bit the differences in what we're hearing about for orders versus your revenue trend. I mean, it sounds like orders were down close to 20% in the third quarter and have gotten a little bit better. Obviously, you know, the revenue guidance that you're giving for Q4 is, you know, a good amount better than that order trend. Just hoping if you could square the two numbers a little bit. Is part of that, you know, the improvement you've seen in orders quarter to date or maybe just, you know, the benefit of working through your existing backlog.
Just anything you can kinda give us as we sort of size up what the base case would be heading into next year would be very helpful.
Jeff Stutz (CFO)
Yeah. Alex, this is Jeff. Good question. I think you kinda hit on a couple of the main points, but just to maybe emphasize them. A, we have seen, as I mentioned earlier, you know, kinda as we moved through the quarter, order patterns did get a little better, and so that's part of our calculus. You also have, in particular in the international business, we've just got. You know, some of this is, Andi used the term lumpy earlier, and it is very true in that, in that, segment of our business. There are, we have line of sight to orders that we have confidence in early enough in the quarter to influence revenue in Q4.
The other point that I would make is, even though in total, the Q4 revenue guide is a little atypical because it's actually at our midpoint, it's down from the Q3 number. That's just reflective of economic conditions. However, even within that, within some of the segments, you do have some seasonality that is normally expected in Q4, and I would point to the retail business as part of that as well. I think those are the major factors that give us kind of the parts and pieces that inform the fourth quarter guidance.
Alex Fuhrman (Senior Research Analyst)
Okay. That's really helpful, Jeff. Then if I could ask also just about the backlog. Before COVID and before the acquisition of Knoll, it seemed like your backlog was, you know, more or less consistent at around the $400 million level. You know, of course, with Knoll and the pandemic, we saw it balloon up to $1 billion. You know, now it's been working its way steadily down for a few quarters and is around $700 million. Can you give us a sense of where we should expect to see that level out, you know, with Knoll and in the post-COVID world? Are you expecting that number to continue to work lower throughout next year?
Jeff Stutz (CFO)
You know, Alex Fuhrman, the world has been so disrupted, we're still kind of waiting to see ourselves what a kind of the new normal looks like. I would tell you that I think based on the patterns that we see and based on how orders are scheduling, we're nearing a point where we think the backlog is largely stabilized. You might argue it's still a bit elevated in total, but I think as we move through Q4 and get into the certainly the Q1 of this next year, our expectations would be that we are, if you will, kind of at that new normal level. I'm not gonna give you an absolute dollar amount because business can...
As soon as I do, business conditions will change, but I think we're getting close.
Alex Fuhrman (Senior Research Analyst)
Great. That's helpful. Thanks, Jeff.
Andi Owen (CEO)
Thank you.
Operator (participant)
We do have a follow-up question from Budd Bugatch with Water Tower Research.
Budd Bugatch (Senior Research Analyst)
Yeah, sorry to prolong it, but I just wanted to make sure I understood something. Jeff, you said that, the only adjustment you would expect in Q4 is really the amortization of purchased intangibles. Are there still acquisition and integration charges continuing? I think you told me they would continue for a long time.
Jeff Stutz (CFO)
This is why we're not guiding. We don't have absolute clarity on what those will be. You know, that's a live program that, you know, will unfold. That's why we've tried to keep it, keep it out of the numbers because it can move around based on actions and levers that get pulled, you know, in the quarter. Yes, there's potential for other things. The only absolute known would be that amortization number that I gave you.
Budd Bugatch (Senior Research Analyst)
Gotcha. Okay. Well, thank you very much. And again good luck on the, on the future periods.
Operator (participant)
There are no further questions. We turn the floor back to President and CEO, Andi Owen, for any closing remarks.
Andi Owen (CEO)
Thanks again, everyone, for joining us on the call. We appreciate your continued support of MillerKnoll, and we look forward to updating you on our progress again next quarter. Thanks again. Have a great night.
Operator (participant)
That does conclude today's presentation. Thank you for your participation, and you may now disconnect.