Noah Holdings - Q1 2024

Transcript

Operator (participant)

Good day, and welcome to the Noah Holdings Q1 2024 Earnings Conference Call. All participants will be in listen-only mode. Should you need assistance, please signal a conference specialist by pressing the star key followed by zero. After today's presentation, there will be an opportunity to ask questions. To ask a question, you may press star, then one on a touch-tone phone. To withdraw your question, please press star, then two. Please note, this event is being recorded. I would now like to turn the conference over to Melo He, Director of IR. Please go ahead.

Melo Xi (Head of Investor Relations)

Thank you, operator. Good morning, and welcome to Noah's 2024 Q1 earnings call. Joining me today on the call are Ms. Wang Jingbo, our co-founder and chairlady, Mr. Daniel Yin, our co-founder, director, and CEO, and Mr. Grant Pan, our CFO. Mr. Yin will begin with an overview of our recent business highlights, followed by Mr. Pan, who will discuss our financial operational results. They will all be available to take your questions in the Q&A session that follows. Before we begin, please note that this discussion today will contain forward-looking statements that are subject to risks and uncertainties that may cause actual results to differ materially from those in our forward-looking statements. Potential risks and uncertainties include, but not limited to, those outlined in our public filings with the SEC and the Hong Kong Stock Exchange.

Noah does not undertake any obligation to update any forward-looking statements, except as required under applicable law. In addition, today's call will include discussions of certain non-GAAP financial measures. A reconciliation of the non-GAAP measures to the most directly comparable GAAP measures can be found in our earnings release. Lastly, this call should not be interpreted as a solicitation to sell or purchase in any interest, in, an interest in any Noah, Noah affiliated products. Please also be aware that a link to a live webcast with presentation materials is available on our investor relations website. With that, I would like to pass the call to Mr. Yin. Please go ahead.

Daniel Yin (CEO)

Thank you, Melo. Good morning, Noah investors and analysts. I'm Daniel Yin, and this is my first time sharing and discussing company's performance as CEO of Noah Holdings. Thank you all for joining us today. I'd like to start today's call by sharing our views on the macroeconomic environment, our performance for the Q1 of 2024, and the strategy we're deploying going forward. Domestic capital market continued to experience extreme fluctuation during the Q1. The real estate market remains sluggish, while the primary markets face hurdles due to the periodic policy restrictions, resulting in a slow exit process. It's clear that high-net-worth individuals are becoming increasingly cautious with their investments. Adding to the challenge, some non-compliant wealth management companies with capital pooling have collapsed, severely affecting domestic clients and leading to a stricter regulatory environment.

I would like to reiterate that since our inception, Noah has never engaged in capital pooling, has no maturity mismatches, and does not offer high-leverage financing options to clients. As of today, Noah does not have any non-standardized private credit products and RMB real residential real estate funds. Overseas, persistent inflation over the past three months has cooled expectations for a Federal Reserve rate cut, indicating that a higher for longer rate environment is likely to remain in place. As a result, investors will continue to allocate capital towards cash management and deposits for a longer period of time. Mandarin-speaking clients are also strongly demanding for global asset allocations. With this trend continues, we're expanding our international RM team and actively increasing our influence and wallet share among overseas Mandarin-speaking clients.

In terms of financial data, in the Q1 of 2024, due to the company's active adjustment of business structure and development strategy, the company overall recorded total revenue RMB 650 million, down 19.2% year-over-year. Our new business strategy achieved good results. In Q1 new business revenue, overseas business contribution accounted for 77.1%, domestic business contribution accounted for 22.9%. In total business revenue, domestic business contributed RMB 350 million, accounting for 53.1%, of which existing business revenue accounted for 89.6%, overseas business contributed RMB 310 million, down 4.5% year-over-year.

This was mainly due to the decrease in carry revenue brought by the launch of primary market projects in the same period last year. After excluding carry revenue, overseas business net revenue increased 22.4% year-over-year. By segment, the wealth management segment contributed RMB 460 million, of which domestic business contributed RMB 240 million, overseas business contributed RMB 230 million. The asset management segment contributed RMB 180 million, of which domestic business contributed RMB 100 million, all from existing business contribution, overseas business contributed RMB 80 million.

With our layout in the overseas private placement product end improving, during the Q1, the number of active customers for USD private investment products and structured products reached 583, up 97% year-over-year. The fundraising for USD private equity products that can bring long-term management fee revenue reached $170 million, pushing USD AUM scale to $5.17 billion, achieving 6.1% growth year-over-year. On the comprehensive services end, in the Q1 of 2024, domestic insurance brokerage business revenue achieved RMB 18.86 million, overseas insurance, trust and other comprehensive services revenue RMB 150 million, up 86.8% year-over-year. Q1 overseas comprehensive business active customer number increased 51.9% year-over-year. In the Q1 of 2024 recorded operating profit RMB 120 million, operating profit margin was 18.7%.

Turning to our financials for the quarter. Total revenues were RMB 654 million, a decrease of 19.2% year-on-year, primarily due to the proactive restructuring of our business. Our overseas business strategy has achieved solid results, contributing 77.1% of the revenue generated from new businesses and products in the Q1, while domestic business contributed 22.9%. By regional breakdown, our domestic business contributed RMB 348 million, accounting for 53.1% of the total revenues. Within the domestic business, revenues from legacy distributed products accounted for 89.6%. Our overseas business generated RMB 307 million, a decrease of 4.5% year-on-year, mainly due to the carry interest earned from private equity exits in the same period last year.

If we back out the impact from carry interest, overseas net revenue actually increased by 22.4% year-on-year. Breaking it down by segment, our wealth management business generated RMB 464 million. Within wealth management, our domestic business contributed RMB 235 million, while the overseas business contributed RMB 229 million. Our asset management business generated RMB 181 million. Within asset management, our domestic business contributed RMB 103 million, entirely composed of revenue from legacy distributed products. Our overseas business generated RMB 78 million.

As we expand our portfolio of overseas private equity products, the number of active clients in US dollar private equity and structured products reached 583 in the Q1, a year-on-year increase of 97%. The value of capital raised for US dollar private equity products, which generates long term recurring service fee revenue, reached RMB 165 million. This grew US dollar AUM to $5.2 billion, a year-on-year increase of 6.1%. In the comprehensive services segment, domestic insurance brokerage business generated RMB 19 million in revenue, and revenue from overseas insurance, trust and other comprehensive services were RMB 150 million, a year-on-year increase of 86.8%.

The number of active clients in the overseas comprehensive business increased by 51.9% year-on-year. Operating profit for the Q1 was RMB 121 million, with an operating profit margin of 18.7%.

Speaker 7

在财富管理端，国内方面，我们的目标是全面合规和安全稳健。我们主动减少国内城市的网点数，从过去近80个聚焦到18个城市，未来我们会继续聚焦到10个左右的核心城市，坚定地降低固定成本和减少中后台的人力成本。国际方面，从香港、新加坡到美国，我们的策略是增加理财师队伍，提升我们在华人高净值客户中的影响力和钱包的份额。截至2024年一季度末，诺亚香港和新加坡共有91位理财师，同比增长225%，管理增长2.2%。现阶段，由于我们国际IM的团队规模还比较小，我们每位国际理财师服务的客户数太多。

对客户的服务和响应有待提升。我们在国际渠道端主要工作是扩大理，国际的理财师队伍，今年我们的目标是将该队伍扩展到200位。随着我们在国际渠道端的布局投入，截止一季度末，诺亚国际注册客户超过15,700人，同比提升17.1%。现金管理类产品累计客户数达到4,108人，同比增长89.4%。客户以全权委托方式在诺亚进行资产管理的客户数达到873人，环比增长167%。在资产管理端，国内方面，我们主要的工作是基，是与GP合作伙伴和被投企业一起，加强在一级市场退出的力度。在二级市场，我们聚焦QDII和QDLP的产品，帮助客户通过人民币的配置获取全球资本市场的Beta收益。国际方面，我们自2022年以来，大幅提升了海外产品货架的品类覆盖和产品质量，坚持大白马管理者加细分策略里精选旗舰产品的策略。一季度期间，美元现金管理产品募集$840 million，同比增长49.4%，环比增长33.6%。同时，我们构建了完整的产 品矩阵，上线了高收益于高息环境的私募信贷、基础设施投资等高收益类的美元产品，并持续推出具备特色的VC Fund of Funds和美国地产基金四期等主动管理产品。美元私募一级产品募集体量的大幅提升，一季度期间达成$170 million，同比增长21.3%，环比增长81.3%。截止一季度末，主动管理产品的海外AUM达到$5.17 billion，同比实现6.1%的增长，占总AUM的比例也从21.2%提升到24.4%。海外私募股权等一级市场基金AUM达到$3.92 billion，同比增长5.9%，包含代销产品和海外AUA达到了$8.32 billion，同比实现9.2%的增长。我们观察到，近年来，全球顶尖的GP越来越注重私人财富的渠道，并通过推出对个人客户友好且流动性良好的产品，来吸引更多的私人财富的资本。因为诺亚在高净值客户中的品牌形象，以及我们所拥有的私人银行家，在另类资产类别的专业能力，我们被全球另类资产管理者视为理想的合作伙伴。我们的目标在未来三到五年内，将美元的AUA从当前的$8 billion，提升，会提升到$20 billion以上。

Melo Xi (Head of Investor Relations)

In the wealth management segment, our domestic business objective is to ensure full compliance and steady operation. We have proactively reduced the number of branches in domestic cities from nearly 80 to 18, with plans to further narrow it down to around 10 core cities. We are firmly committed to reducing fixed costs and optimizing mid and back office personnel costs.

Internationally, from Hong Kong and Singapore to the United States, our strategy is to increase the number of relationship managers and enhance our influence and wallet share among high net worth Mandarin speaking clients. As of the end of the Q1, Hong Kong and Singapore had 91 relationship managers on board, an increase of 225% year-on-year and 2.2% sequentially. Currently, due to the small size of our overseas RM team, each overseas RM served too many clients, and there is room for improvement in the quality and responsiveness in our client service.

Internationally, our primary focus is on expanding the team of overseas RMs. This year, our goal is to grow the team to 200. As we continue to invest in our international infrastructure, as of the end of the quarter, we had over 15,700 overseas registered clients, an increase of 17.1% year-on-year. The number of clients who purchased our cash management products reached 4,108, an increase of 89.4% year-on-year, while the number of discretionary investment clients reached 873, an increase of 167% sequentially. In the asset management segment, domestically, our primary challenge is to strengthen private market access in collaboration with GPs and portfolio companies.

In public markets, we focus on QDII and QDLP products to help clients generate better returns in the global capital markets with RMB allocations. Internationally, since 2022, we have significantly expanded the diversity and quality of our overseas products as part of our top-tier GP partners and segmented flagship product strategy. During the quarter, the transaction value for US dollar cash management product increased 49.4% year-on-year, and 33.6% sequentially to $840 million. At the same time, we have built a complete product matrix and launched high-yield US dollar products to capitalize on high interest rate environments.

... These includes private credit and infrastructure products, as well as actively managed VC fund-of-funds and the fourth series of our U.S. real estate fund. Transaction value of our U.S. private equity products increased significantly, reaching $165 million in the Q1, an increase of 21.3% year-on-year, and 81.3% sequentially. As of the end of the quarter, AUM for overseas products reached $5.2 billion, an increase of 6.1% year-on-year, accounting for 24.4% of the group AUM, compared with 21.2% during the same period last year. AUM for overseas private equity and other primary market funds reached $3.9 billion, an increase of 5.9% year-on-year.

Overseas AUA, which includes third-party distributed products, reached $8.3 billion, a year-on-year increase of 9.2%. In recent years, top global GPs have increasingly turned to private wealth channels for capital raising and have been introducing more individual client-friendly products with liquidity future features. Our strong brand image among high net worth clients and RM's expertise in alternative assets, make us the ideal partner for those GPs. Our goal is to increase US dollar AUA from the current $8 billion to over $20 billion in the next 3-5 years.

Speaker 7

在综合服务端，Glory保险方面，国内市场放缓明显，主要源于国内保险固定利率持续下调。目前我们的策略是聚焦帮助客户解决父母的养老和康养医疗需求的功能性险种为主。在海外市场，香港保险市场在去年疫情开关后进入了激烈的竞争阶段，产品同质化较高。为应对这一挑战，我们加强了对客户画像的细分，针对性地与保险公司合作，开发了定制化和专属型的产 品。此外，我们还为诺亚的企业家客户推出了要员保险等B+C端的综合解决方案，以提升了我们的差异化产品与专业服务的竞争优势。一季度期间，海外保险收入同比增长86.8%。在国际渠道业务建设方面，通过线上和线下服务高净值客户是我们重点。国际在线财管端，我们持续丰富方舟达福APP的产品货架，扩大我们的客户类型，从C端客户到B端和A端客户，我们都可以提供不同的解决方案。国际在线财管正在成长为我们的新的渠道。国际在线财管的C端方，客户方面，2024年一季度期间，海外活跃高净值客户数达2,745人，同比增长39.6%，整体募集量达$1.16 billion，同比增长50.7%。其中美元公募基金活跃客户数达到2,327人，同比增长65.2%，募集规模达到$520 million，同比增长52.7%。在B端客户方面，一季度海外产品募集规模达$85 million，同比提升了143%，存量规模达到$1.9 billion，同比提升58.5%。在A端agents客户方面，国际线上财管在2023年开始了To A业务的试运营，希望通过SaaS服务，加诺亚的产品体系，赋能EAM多家办的客户他们的业务的发展。截止目前，已签约17家A端客户，我们希望在未来可以通过国际线上财管，开拓一个不依赖诺亚理财师队伍的销售平台，并随着我们全球网点的建设和布局，目标在海外服务300个EAM和多家办的客户。

Melo Xi (Head of Investor Relations)

On the comprehensive services side, domestic insurance business has slowed notably, mainly due to the continuous decline in fixed interest rates for domestic insurance. Our current strategy is to focus on insurance products that help clients address their parents' retirement, well-being, and medical needs. Overseas, the Hong Kong insurance market has entered into a phase of intense competition, with highly homogeneous products following the COVID reopening. To address this challenge, we have strengthened client segmentation and collaborated with leading insurance companies to develop exclusive products and customized solutions. Furthermore, we have launched customized enterprise client solutions, such as employee benefit plans for our entrepreneur clients. This has enhanced our competitive advantage with differentiated products and professional services. During the quarter, overseas insurance revenue increased by 86.8% year-on-year. Serving high net worth clients through both online and offline channels is a key priority for us.

We continue to further expand the range and types of clients that we can serve - service through iNoah, our overseas wealth management app. This includes the offering of different solutions to clients, businesses, and agencies. Online wealth management is becoming our new channel for us in the overseas. The number of overseas active high net worth clients reached 2,745, an increase of 39.6% year-on-year. Total transaction value during the same period reached $1.2 billion, up 50.7% year-on-year. The number of active clients for U.S. neutral funds reached 2,327, an increase of 65.2% year-on-year, with transaction value of $521 million, up 52.7% year-on-year.

Overseas transaction value for corporate and institutional clients reached $85 million in the Q1, an increase of 143% year-on-year, with AUA reaching $187 million, a year-on-year increase of 58.5%. For agency clients, our overseas wealth management business began trial operations in late 2023, where it is empowering EAMs and family office clients with a SaaS platform integrated with our full suite of products. To date, we have signed 70 agency clients. Our goal is to develop an overseas online wealth management platform that does not rely on our team of RMs. Once our overseas infrastructure is firmly in place, we target to serve 300 EAMs and family offices with this solution. Since inception, we have dedicated ourselves to providing high quality asset allocation services to Mandarin-speaking high net worth investors.

We have built enduring, trust-based relationships with each of our clients and continuously enhanced our understanding of wealth management and investment through ongoing investor education. As Mandarin-speaking high net worth investors become more mature and globally oriented, the deep trust-based relationships we have built domestically will allow us to continue serving them as they look overseas. We are dedicated to building a personalized service for them, which, when combined with our expanding global product portfolio, will give us a significant advantage over local institutions going forward. Our asset-light approach to expanding into key overseas markets, with high concentrations of Mandarin-speaking high net worth investors and wide array of product services, will ideally position us to serve not only our existing clients, but also build a new local client base.

I would now like to turn the call over to Grant to go over our financial results in more detail before opening the call to Q&A. Thank you, everyone.

Grant Pan (CFO)

Thank you, Melo, and thank you, Zhe. Greetings to everyone joining us today. As Zhe has mentioned, the Q1 of 2024 was impacted by continued volatility in the global capital market. Shifting expectations around Federal Reserve interest rate cuts have created turbulent conditions in equity and bond markets around the world. As the US dollar strengthened, equity and gold prices moved in tandem, reflecting the complex environment that investors continue to face. Effective risk management and global diversified portfolio have become crucial to successfully navigating this environment. Domestically, the A-share market experienced extreme fluctuations as well, which negatively impacted investor confidence, prompting them to take a more cautious and risk-averse approach to investment and further diversifying their portfolios. This created substantial challenges and impacted the financial performance of China's wealth and asset management industry.

During the Q1, 43 listed security brokerage firms saw total revenue and net profit decline by 20% and 30% from the same period last year. Some leading private banks were also affected, with significant declines in commission income. In response to prevailing marketing conditions, we're strategically restructuring our wealth management operations, consolidating teams and resources from smaller cities to core cities.... and pivoting operations and personnel towards global markets where demand for asset diversification is growing. Themes guiding operations this year are transformation and transition. While this transformation may bring short-term challenges, pressures, including temporary fluctuations on financial performance, we're confident that we'll lay a solid foundation for robust and sustainable growth towards our globalization strategy and generate enduring value for shareholders. With that, let's get into the details of the Q1 financial results.

On the revenue side, we have seen a slight increase in net revenues from new transactions, with one-time commissions up 6% year-over-year. However, the decline in recurring service fees and performance-based income put pressure on total net revenues, which decreased 19.2% year-over-year and 18.8% sequentially, due to seasonality to RMB 650 million in the Q1. Net revenue from recurring service fees were RMB 417 million, down 12% year-over-year and 2.6% sequentially, due to a decrease mostly in the onshore AUM, resulting from changes in NAV and also exits from RMB-related investments. Performance-based income was RMB 14 million, compared to RMB 83 million in the same period last year, primarily due to the successful exit of a private equity portfolio company last year.

The bright side is that we're seeing increased interest towards U.S. dollar investment products. In light of the diminished expectation of a rate cut by the Federal Reserve, we're observing a strong and sustained demand from clients for U.S. dollar cash management products. It's worth also noting that the transaction value for overseas private equity and private secondary products, which could bring long-term recurring fees in the future, are also generating significant growth, increasing 21.3% and 70.6% year-over-year, respectively, demonstrating the progress we have made in expanding our high-quality alternative investment product offerings. Looking at the financials, we can see clearer growth in the overseas business. On an apples-to-apples basis, taking out the impact of performance-based income, overseas net revenues grew meaningfully by 22.4%.

The total overseas net revenues accounted for 47.2% of total revenues, up 7.2% year-over-year, underscoring the growing importance of a key revenue driver. With respect to transaction values, we distributed RMB 18.9 billion of products during the quarter, up 12.4% year-over-year and 14% sequentially. However, the immediate contribution on revenue is not yet evident, despite the high demand for US dollar cash management products, and also the revenue, recurring revenue from private equity-related products will not take effect in the same quarter. It does reflect the progress we're continuing making in getting a larger share of the clients' wallets. The long-term benefits of the increased portion of alternative investment products to future management fees are also yet to be realized in the current terms.

By currency, transaction value for RMB products was RMB 10.5 billion, down 8.8% year-over-year and 1.5% sequentially, while transaction value for US dollar products increased by 50.7% and 40.2% sequentially to $1.2 billion. Overseas AUM grew 6.1% to $5.2 billion, accounting for 24% of total AUM, while overseas AUA grew 9.2% year-over-year to $8.3 billion, accounting for 24% of total AUA, reflecting our ability to capture a larger share of the clients' US dollar wallet. Operating costs and expenses experienced a slight year-over-year increase of 0.7% and sequential decline of 8.8%, due to our cost control initiatives.

In detail, compensation and benefits increased by 5% year-over-year and 29.3 sequentially. This was primarily due to an increase in share-based compensation expense to motivate and retain core talents. As I mentioned last quarter, we're continuing to consolidate our network in smaller cities and further improving human capital efficiency by reducing overhead expenses. While the financial benefits of these optimizations may not be immediately apparent, we anticipate a gradual and noticeable impact on our cost savings in the future. Selling and general administrative expenses combined decreased 6.3% year-over-year and 47.9% sequentially, reflecting the progress of our cost control and efficiency improvement initiatives are already making. Operating profit during the quarter was RMB 121 million, a decrease of 56.4% year-over-year and 45% sequentially.

Operating profit margin was 18.7% during this quarter, below our long-term target range of 30%-35%, primarily due to the drag from domestic market revenues and periodic organizational restructuring. Total other income increased by 82.1% year-on-year, to RMB 55.3 million, due to continued optimization of treasury management. Non-GAAP net income during the quarter was RMB 161 million, compared with RMB 239 million during the same period last year. In terms of clients, as of the end of the Q1, we had a stable total of 9,560 Diamond and Black Card clients. Specifically, the number of Diamond Card clients decreased slightly to 7,272, while the number of Black Card clients increased to 2,296.

As our overseas expansion accelerates, the number of overseas registered clients continues to grow, increasing 17.1% year-on-year and 5.3 sequentially to 15,725. The total number of overseas Diamond and Black Card clients, which require minimum investment with us of $2 million and $5 million respectively, grew rapidly to more than 1,500. During the Q1, the total number of active clients was 10,391, up 15% sequentially, of which overseas active clients accounted for 2,745, an increase of 9.1% sequentially. Turning to our balance sheet, we have maintained a healthy liquidity position with our current ratio of 4.1 times, and debt-to-asset ratio at 16.6%, with zero interest bearing rate. Interest-bearing debt.

We have RMB 5.1 billion in cash and cash equivalents, providing ample resources to support our global expansion plans and allocate to shareholder returns, which remains a priority for the board. As mentioned last quarter, Noah declared annual dividend of RMB 509 million and a non-recurring special dividend of RMB 509 million for 2023, subject to final approval at our AGM on June 12, 2024. We expect to pay out dividends when approved before the end of July to Hong Kong stockholders and in early August to our ADS holders. We look forward to providing stable and sustainable returns to shareholders that will drive growth across our business.

Looking ahead, our goal is to provide our clients with high quality and globalized products and services, restructuring our wealth management channels and realigning our operations and personnel that will allow us to sustainably capitalize on this growing demand. The strategy, the strategic transition toward overseas markets are still in the initial phase of being built out and will take some time to mature, but we're already beginning to see the progress we have made reflected in the performance of global business. While we'll inevitably encounter bumps along the road, we're confident in our ability to overcome them, and would like to express our sincerest gratitude to our shareholders' support. Thank you for listening. I'll now open the floor for questions.

Operator (participant)

We will now begin the question and answer session. To ask a question, you may press star then one on your touchtone phone. If you are using a speakerphone, please pick up your handset before pressing the keys. If at any time your question has been addressed and you would like to withdraw your question, please press star two. At this time, we will pause momentarily to assemble our roster. The first question comes from Peter John with J.P. Morgan. Please go ahead.

Speaker 7

感谢管理层给我提问的机会。我的第一个问题是，就是三、四月以来，我们有看到港股的一些港股资本市场有所回升，然后最近国内也推出了地产的支持政策。我想问一下，就是最近，几个月来，管理层或者诺亚这边有看到，我们投资者的情绪有所回升吗？然后管理层，在业绩会里有提到，国内的保险产品的需求，就是随着利率的下降有所下降。我想问一下，现在就是我们的客户的需求转向了哪些产品？这是第一个问题。第二个问题是，我们一季度的收入就是同比有所下滑，我想，请管理层再介绍一下，背后的原因。然后对，对，我们对于今年的整体的收入有什么展望吗？然后还有一个小问题，就是，去年四季度，就是国内的银行银保渠道进行了保险合一，导致了，保险销售的手续费率下降，我们会不会在未来，在我们的保险销售上也有潜在费率下降，那对我们有什么影响？除了国内的保险产品外，我们的其他产品，在未来或者现在有没有看到，一些费率下降的压力，也请管理层介绍。那，那我做一下翻译。

Peter John (Analyst)

My first question is about the investment sentiment. Starting from the March this year, we noticed that the capital market in Hong Kong has recovered, and recently there's also some real estate supporting policy in mainland China. We are wondering whether Noah observed any improvement in the domestic investment sentiment?

... and many were mentioned during the call that the amount for domestic insurance has declined. We are also wondering what what's the current preference for or the or their their interest in in terms of the product. My second question is about the revenue outlook and fee rate. We noticed that the Q1 revenue declined, loss revenue declined on year-over-year basis. Can management give us some can management explain what's the reason of drivers behind? And what what's our expectation for the loss revenue in 2024? My second question is about the the fee rate for our product.

In Q1 last year, domestic bank insurance channel experienced a declining insurance fee rate as requested by the regulator. Will we see potential fee rate decline for our domestic insurance sales, and what's the potential impact? And apart from the domestic insurance, will we see other, any other, fee rate declining impact for other product we are currently distributing? Thank you.

Speaker 7

好，谢谢提问。好，问题比较多，逐一做一个解答。那第一个关于国内投资者情绪的问题。虽然说港股市场，在一季度，有所反弹，但是总体来看的话，我们并没有看到投资者在投资情绪和信心上面的话，有很多的恢复。那么因为市场的话，那个是反弹以后的话，对于投资者本身来说，他们的本身的这个建立的投资的情绪和观点，其实是一个长期性的，并不是说一个短期的。那么对我，我就我们之前CIO观点一样，我们在整个的大，战略和给客户资产配置建议，其实也是以加强海外的配置，为主的。所以说在这样的环境下面的的话，其实在一季度的反弹，我们并没有看到客户投资情绪会有很大的影响。但是更重要的其实还是我们对于我们的在业务战略上面，很坚定地去推进海外的一个业务。那么关于第二个保险产品，我先一下，可以。

Daniel Yin (CEO)

Thank you, Zhe, and thank you, Peter, for the question. So I'll translate on the first question regarding the changes in recent sentiment among investors. So although given that, we have seen, you know, some rebound in the capital markets or, you know, HK, A-share capital markets recently, you know, I, I guess in summary, we haven't seen a significant shift or improvement in HNW investors' investment sentiment because, you know, building confidence is rather a long-term process rather than short term. So the short term capital market rebound will not immediately reverse the investment sentiment in that sense.

Speaker 7

那第二个就关于保险产品，国内保险的收益率的一个下降。其实，也侧面地反映了客户对于整个市场的情绪的一个，影响。因为保险固定收益率的下降，其实也是一个长期的趋势，就像国内，那个长期的利率，投资利率下降，是同样的一个，趋势。那么客户在国内确实，没有太多的，那个大的，大规模的一个投资机会。所以说我们在CIO观点当中也讲得很清楚，就是，这投资小确幸，在国内。保险的话，是它是一个以保障为主的，所以说我们现在保险的话是聚焦客户他的父母在国内的养老的，这方面的一个需求，医养结合的这方面的需求。

Daniel Yin (CEO)

So the second question regarding the domestic insurance and, I guess the slowdown in demand as well as the, the trending downward return or interest rate, I guess it's largely aligned with the domestic interest rate environment, which is also trending down. And, I guess the slowdown in, the clients' sentiment towards domestic insurance is also a reflection of their investment sentiment in that sense. So, you know, right now, in terms of domestic insurance, we are more focusing on, you know, the, the products that will satisfy, the retirement well-being, as well as the, the medical needs, of clients and their parents, the type of product that will satisfy that, those demands.

Speaker 7

那第三个关于收入，一季度收入下滑的原因，其实刚才我跟潘青的报告当中，都有所讲到，那在这里的话再做一个总结。就是，第一个就是我们在管理费收入上面的话是有持续的下降，主要的原因是国内的，持续的退出以后所带来的管理费，这个AUM的这个收入的这个下降。那同时在海外的业务我们是有增长的，那海外业务的话，我们，客户的，那个对于，那个美元的利率，现在higher for longer这样的一个趋势的话，它还是在于现金管理上面的 话是比较有更多的倾向性的。...

那么，导致在收入结构上面的话，还没有。这个管理费还没有完全起来。但是我们认为获取客户的份额和赢得客户长期的，他的信任其实是更为重要的。所以说，先把客户的话能够提供给他在现金管理上面的很多的产品配置，能够让客户的钱包在我们这里的话能够更多，这也是我们未来能够转化的一個很重要原因。其实我们在季度在海外私募基金，就是这种长周期的私募股权、私募信贷产品的话，还是表现不错的。那么，第三个原因就是我们的同比，相比的话，其实我们的carry收入是在一季度有个相应的一个减少的，这也是跟市场原因有关。如果假设剔除carry收入的话，其实我们的整个的业务还是比较稳定的。

Daniel Yin (CEO)

So the third question regarding the reasons behind the decline in Q1 revenue. I guess the first aspect is that the decreasing recurring service fee or the management fee mainly because of the active exit activities in our domestic portfolio, and the fact that, you know, we do not really, you know, introduce new products in the domestic market, which drives down our domestic AUM, but I guess that's a rather active approach.

And the second, second aspect is that, you know, although given we have achieved a great improvement or progress in our overseas business and expansion, but given the current higher for longer interest rate environment and, the product, you know, that fit into that, environment, I guess the, the growth in overseas business is still not fully reflected in our current revenue structure. But we think that, to capture and maintain clients' wallet share through even through cash management and term deposit products, is also very important, because it is building for future growth, when, you know, when interest rate, trends down, that we can translate these products into more fee-generating products, like private equity and hedge fund products in the future.

And thirdly, I guess it's the fact that, you know, the decrease in carry income and performance-based income, because of the general exit environment comparing to the previous, I mean the previous year.

Speaker 7

那么，关于提到的对于2024年的整体的收入和业务的展望，其实我们的战略是很清晰的。2024年的话，我们聚焦在国内，就是确保安全和稳健。那么在国际上面的话就是加大投入。所以说在整体的业务方向上面，我们其实是调整我们的资源配置，更多地投向海外，进行一个结构性调整。那么在海外业务的话呢，确实，它起来的话是需要时间。我们过去在国内，做了20年时间，建立了比较好的一个业务的一个体系，那么我们也希望能够未来能够有3-5年，把国际业务，能够有一个很好的一个业务形态的一个建立。那么我们也有很多的优势，就是我们客户跟我们之间的信任是非常长期的，我们客户在，就是客户在投资理财的长期的他的需求其实是一直存在，他不会因为，市场受到剧烈的挑战，他以后的话就不投资，所以他的投资的长期需求是存在的。而客户跟我们的信任又是，过去能够建立一个很好的信任关系，那么伴随着客户在，在海外的配置的比重加大以后的话，我们相信我们可以能够服务更好的，更好地服务海外的客户。

Daniel Yin (CEO)

So, I guess the fourth question regarding the outlook on 2024. I guess overall, the strategy is rather clear, which is to ensure, you know, security, safety and compliance in our domestic operation, while focusing on, deploying more resources, and to expand our overseas business. But, you know, you know, that process will probably take some time, for our overseas business to fully accelerate.

We have spent the past 20 years, being able to build a rather complete system, in the domestic market, and we're hoping that in the 3-5 years' time, we'll be able to, you know, complete our overseas business infrastructure. And it additionally, I guess the client, trust with us is, I guess it's very long term, and the investment demand and needs, of high net worth investors is also very long term. So, you know, as clients look more towards overseas asset allocation, we will be well positioned to provide, you know, better products and services to them in the overseas and global markets.

Speaker 7

还有两个，就是关于国内保险，那个监管，保信合一，对于保，国内保险费率的一个影响，以及其他产品的费率是否下降。其实保信合一的话，对我们来说的话，其实影响是比较小的，我们更重要的其实还是首先关注客户的需求，以及如何满足客户的一个价值的创造。

就让客户能够，合理化地去进行一个资产配置，是我们首要的关注的点。对于费率，其实市场上的那个稍微，稍微的那个上下波动，其实并不是我们特别关注的一个点。那报行和，跟我们的那个业务结构是有关系的，因为我们本身的话，跟很多的市场的保险经纪代理公司，这种所谓的低底线、零底线、高提成的佣金的方式是不同的，我们是给到客户一个综合的一个配置，注重了客户的整体的表现，所以说我们的，IM，我们的私人银行家，也是注重一个长期给客户创造价值和关系的一个过程。报行费率的话，对于国，我们的销售费率，不会有太大的一个影响。其他产品的话，费率有否下降，其实跟产品的结构是有关系的。就像如果假设现金管理产品，它的那个整个的收费结构就是会相对低一点。我们也关注到其他的，包括私募证券、私募股权等等这些产品，不管是国内还是海外，相对来说还是比较稳定。但对我们来说，更重要的其实是，宁愿损失客户，也不要损失客户的钱，而长期赢得客户的信任，为客户长期的资产配置做好服务，这就是我们更为关注的点。

Daniel Yin (CEO)

Thank you Zhe. The question regarding the insurance commission fee decrease, I guess the overall impact on our business is rather small, especially comparing with a lot of the insurance brokerage business in the market, where most of the brokers have high commissions but low base. Our RMs are more focused on providing long term value for our clients. As a business, our primary focus is to satisfy our clients' needs and create value for clients, and how to optimize their asset allocation and portfolio construction. I guess the short term or the fluctuation in the fee rate of a certain product is not the most, you know, aspect that we're worried about.

In terms of other products fee rate changes, I guess it's largely in relation to the nature of the products. For example, cash management related products naturally have a lower fee rate, whereas the private market, including private equity and private secondary hedge fund products, the fee rate has been rather stable. That being said, we are still focused on optimizing our clients' portfolio and asset allocation, and we would rather lose a certain client than to lose money. Also going back to creating long term value for our clients. Operator, please be noted that there is no more questions, our Chairlady Wang would like to have a closing remark as well.

Operator (participant)

this concludes our question and answer session. I will now turn it over to management for any closing remarks.

Speaker 6

Thank you.

Speaker 7

王总，您最后总结一下嘛？

好的，我觉得哈，就是好 。

最近其实？

Jingbo Wang (Co-Founder and Chairlady)

Oh, could you hear?

Speaker 7

可以的，可以的。

我觉得现在最近市场上有一些完全不合规的所谓的财富管理公司爆雷，还是让高净值客户有很大的损失，因为他们的市场规模比较大。从这个角度来讲，我觉得过去的10年，我们可能经历了一个虚假的财富管理的繁荣。所幸，诺亚在过去的20年创业期间，从创业第一天开始，就坚持金融的常识，坚持投资者教育，经历了各种市场风险，走到现在吧，基本没有遗留问题和有毒资产。我认为在我们这个行业，最大的风险就是客户反评，我们现在正在经历这个过程，所以我们的大战略就是在客户端，让客户休养生息，保护客户的资产，以期在未来占领先更多的客户钱包，而不是急于地推一些产品，就像过去一样。那对我们团队来讲，战略是很清晰的，但我们需要几个季度来调整和执行到位。现在我们最大的挑战是我们核心管理团队的管理惯性，因为我们已经做了20年了，我们要尽快学习和熟悉国际私人银行的运营模式，但我们的核心团队也是很兴奋的，因为我们有非常非常多的客户，我们还有一些优秀 olan 这个IM，我们也在国际上招聘了一些IM，能够参与到一个真正的国际竞争的私人银行，对我们来讲是非常有意义的。所以我们对未来还是很有信心的。我就想讲这几点吧。

Speaker 6

Thank you, Chairlady. So I'll translate for Chairlady's closing remarks. So we have noticed that there are a lot of, you know, not compliant so-called wealth managers in the China domestic market, you know, continues to default on their, you know, their private credit products, which, you know, has caused, you know, significant losses among their high net worth clients. So, I guess in our perspective, in the past 10 years, the China wealth management has experienced a rather fast growing, but not so healthy, you know, growth period.

So, you know, standing in today's time, we think that the largest or the biggest risk in the wealth management market in China, is that the high net worth clients, you know, return back to poverty because of the wrong, wrongly allocated assets or the wrong, asset allocation advices they got. So, right now, our main advice to our existing clients is to hold on to their current wealth and portfolio, so that they can preserve their wealth, and, you know, which is, you know, driven for future growth when the opportunity is there.

Internally, I guess the biggest challenge for us, as we expand our overseas strategy, is, you know, I guess, how fast we can get used to or be familiar with the operation of how global private banks operate. But that being said, we have a very talented core management team, and we do have some very global-minded and top-tier RM team. So we are still rather optimistic regarding our future growth, especially in the overseas market.

Wang Dong,

Melo Xi (Head of Investor Relations)

Turning back to you, operator.

Operator (participant)

The conference is now concluded. Thank you for attending today's presentation. You may now disconnect.

Melo Xi (Head of Investor Relations)

Thank you all.