Onto Innovation - Q2 2023

Transcript

Operator (participant)

Please stand by. Good day. Welcome to the Onto Innovation second quarter earnings release conference call. Today's conference is being recorded. At this time, I would like to turn the conference over to Mike Sheaffer, Investor Relations. Please go ahead, sir.

Mike Sheaffer (Senior Director, Investor Relations, Corporate Communications and Market Research)

Thank you, Cynthia. Good afternoon, everyone. Onto Innovation issued its 2023 second quarter financial results this afternoon, shortly after the market closed. If you did not receive a copy of the release, please refer to the company's website, where a copy of the release is posted. Joining us on the call today are Michael Plaszynski, Chief Executive Officer, and Mark Slicer, Chief Financial Officer. I would like to remind you that statements made by management on this call will contain forward-looking statements within the meaning of the federal securities laws. Those statements are subject to a range of changes, risks, and uncertainties that can cause actual results to vary materially. For more information regarding the risk factors that may impact Onto Innovation's results, I would encourage you to review our earnings release and our SEC filings.

Onto Innovation does not undertake the obligation to update these forward-looking statements in light of new information or future events. Today's discussion of our financial results will be presented on a non-GAAP financial basis, unless we specify otherwise. As a reminder, a detailed reconciliation between GAAP and non-GAAP results can be found in today's earnings release. I'll now go ahead and turn the call over to our CEO, Michael Plaszynski. Mike?

Michael Plisinski (CEO)

Thank you, Mike. Good afternoon, everyone, and thank you for joining our call today. I'll begin with the shift in timing of shipments for three lithography tools, which impacted our second quarter results and third quarter guidance. All three tools were for a specific customer and scheduled to ship near the end of the second quarter. During the quarter, we accepted a customer request for specific enhancement package to be added to the tools and manufacturing. We estimated this could be installed and tested in the quarter, but ultimately, the full verification took longer than planned. The customer has since approved this new functionality, and the tools are included in our outlook for the third quarter. In aggregate, the second quarter revenue and third quarter outlook remains consistent with our prior guidance of just over $400 million for the sum of those two quarters.

This reflects the weak demand from our advanced nodes customers being offset by strong power semiconductor revenue and the more recently surging demand for our Dragonfly inspection systems to support heterogeneous packaging and High Bandwidth Memory customers. In fact, we expect this specific demand to drive more than $90 million in revenue over the next three quarters. I'll provide additional details about our outlook in a few minutes, but first, let's dig a little deeper into the second quarter. We'll start with our specialty and advanced packaging customers, where revenue from this customer group grew by over 20% from the prior quarter. Revenue from our power device customers grew over 35% and included our product portfolio of inspection, metrology, and software solutions. This was our largest market in the quarter, and in fact, revenue exceeded total power device revenue in all of 2021.

Building on this demand, in the quarter, we announced the intent to expand our metrology portfolio with the release of Element S materials metrology and Atlas S OCD metrology, each specifically designed to address challenges in the compound semiconductor manufacturing. We've already secured orders for these tools, and shipments will begin in the fourth quarter. With these additional products, we believe we are positioned to address an estimated 80% of process control steps in this high-growth market, which is estimated to require 10 times the current volume of wafers by 2030. In advanced packaging, we delivered over 20 million of inspection systems to customers ramping heterogeneous packaging lines to support growing end-market demand for high-performance computing.

The flexibility of our Dragonfly systems, which integrate submicron 2D defect detection, 3D metrology, and our unique Clearfind capability into a single system, is proving to be a powerful tool for the heterogeneous packaging applications used in high-performance computing. For example, Clearfind technology is able to detect residue on die-to-die or die-to-wafer interconnects and ensures good die bonding. While our 3D metrology sensors provide critical stack height information and coplanarity data for the package. This metrology is proving essential to controlling yields and is leading to higher attach rates. In sharp contrast, revenue from our advanced nodes customers declined 43% in the quarter. However, even as capacity buys wane, R&D investments have continued, and in the second quarter, we were pleased to see further proliferation of our Iris films when it was successfully qualified by a top 3D DRAM manufacturer in the quarter.

In addition, we delivered several OCD, Atlas OCD systems to two customers for gate-all-around applications. We believe the declines in advanced nodes will reach a bottom in the third quarter, with strong demand in specialty and advanced packaging continuing in the second half of the year. Before moving to our outlook for the third quarter, Mark will now cover the financial results for the second quarter.

Mike Sheaffer (Senior Director, Investor Relations, Corporate Communications and Market Research)

Thanks, Mike. Good afternoon, everyone. As Mike highlighted, we closed the second quarter with revenue of $191 million, down 26% over the same period last year, and below the second quarter guidance range of 195 million-203 million due to the shift in timing of the three JetStep systems Mike commented on. Despite the lower revenue, we did achieve an EPS of $0.79 for the second quarter, within our EPS guidance range of 0.75-0.90. The revenue decline from the same period last year is primarily due to the decline in our advanced nodes business, which had revenue of $38 million and represents 20% of revenue.

Mark Slicer (CFO)

Specialty device and advanced packaging revenue of $112 million represents 59% of revenue. Software and services had revenue of $41 million, which represents 21% of revenue. We achieved 53% gross margin for the second quarter, exceeding our guidance range of 50%-52%, driven by the favorable mix, shipping fewer JetStep systems and seeing an initial favorability due to our supply chain optimization efforts. Second quarter operating expenses were $59.9 million, within our guidance range of $58 million-$60 million. We are still executing to our cost reduction activities. However, we have continued to maintain a slightly higher level of investment in R&D initiatives, as Mike mentioned, aligning to R&D engagements in planar films and power semiconductor applications.

Our operating income of 41 million was 21% of revenue for the second quarter, compared to 29% from the prior year. Our net income in the second quarter was $39 million, or $0.79 per share. Now moving to the balance sheet. We ended the second quarter with cash and short-term investments of 610 million, an increase of 62 million from the start of the year, with operating cash flow of 31 million within the quarter, representing 17% of revenue for Q2. Inventory ended the quarter at 352 million, an increase of 14 million. We continue to actively manage down our inventory levels across the network. However, we had increases in lithography and services inventory within the quarter.

We are projecting a decline in Q3 and are now targeting to be between 275 million and 300 million by the end of the year. Accounts receivable decreased 22 million to 188 million in the quarter, and our days sales outstanding decreased six days to 90 days. With our inventory reduction goals and focus on cash collections, we expect to return cash flow to consistent performance of over 20%. During the quarter, we did not execute any share repurchases. We have $32 million remaining under our existing $100 million authorization. Now turning to our outlook for Q3. We currently expect revenue for the third quarter to be between 205 million and 225 million.

We expect gross margins will be between 50%-51%, primarily due to lower advanced nodes revenue, which typically carries higher margins above our corporate average, as well as a shift of the JetStep systems built in Q2, now shipping in Q3. For operating expenses, we expect to be between $57 million-$59 million. For the full year 2023, we expect our effective tax rate to be between 14%-16%. We expect our diluted share count for Q3 to be approximately 49.4 million shares. Based upon these assumptions, we anticipate our non-GAAP earnings to be between $0.85 per share to $1.05 per share.

We are making progress towards reducing our fixed cost structure by optimizing our supply chain and manufacturing sites, while maintaining our strategic priorities in several R&D programs, and ensuring our ability to deliver financial performance in line, in line with our long-term operating model. The team has made significant progress to date, expanding our second shift to drive higher absorption of fixed costs, while improving cycle times and outsourcing several non-core subassemblies to global supply chain partners. We have set aggressive but achievable targets with our global partners, consolidating our supplier base by greater than 50% over the next two years, while also simplifying our key components, such as moving to a common automation system, which will drive a 25% cost reduction and is part of our identified savings for 2024 and 2025, as highlighted during our recent Analyst Day.

With that, I will turn it back to Mike for additional insights into Q3 and the remainder of 2023. Mike?

Michael Plisinski (CEO)

Thank you, Mark. As Mark mentioned, we expect the third quarter to be up 8%-18%, reflecting an increase in both process control and lithography revenue over the second quarter. The expected increase in process control revenue is mostly driven by capacity expansions and higher process control intensity to support heterogeneous integration of GPUs and High Bandwidth Memory. Combining these two powerful technologies into a single package is enabling customers like NVIDIA to supply the specialized compute platforms to support the growing demand for large language model applications by hyperscalers and corporate enterprises. These assembly processes are more complex, and with multiple die becoming a single package, the impact to yield of a single interconnect failure is much higher.

The proven ability of our Dragonfly G3 system to reliably monitor for these failures is driving the projected increase in demand of over $90 million in revenue, which we mentioned earlier. We also project demand for our portfolio of products supporting power semiconductor customers to remain near current record levels. We still see headwinds in the advanced nodes, primarily from DRAM manufacturers. We expect revenue to decline again in the third quarter, which we believe will mark a bottom for front-end memory overall. We're optimistic for a possible recovery in the second half next year, as customers like Samsung are beginning to talk about the launch of new smartphones and PC promotions in the second half of 2023, being a catalyst for customer inventory reductions going into next year.

In summary, we see strong demand for our products to support power semiconductor device manufacturers and heterogeneous packaging on both wafer and panel substrates. In these markets, we believe our portfolio of connected solutions provides differentiated value, further contributing to the adoption rate we're seeing... In the advanced nodes, though spending is down significantly this year, our customer collaborations are resulting in new tool of record positions for our IRIS planar films metrology and integrated metrology, while progressing the capability of Atlas OCD metrology to new applications and more challenging transistor geometries. We expect these new product positions should lead to higher wallet share when investments resume in the advanced logic and memory markets. At the same time, we're implementing the structural improvements to our operations and supply chains that should result in a stronger financial foundation as we close in 2023 and prepare for the new year.

I'll now turn the call over to Cynthia for questions from our covering analysts.

Operator (participant)

Thank you. If you would like to ask a question, please signal by pressing star one on your telephone keypad. If you are using a speakerphone, please make sure your mute function is turned off to allow the signal to reach our equipment. Again, press star one to ask a question. We'll pause for just a moment to assemble the queue. We will take our first question from Charles Shi with Needham. Please go ahead.

Charles Shi (Principal, Senior Analyst)

Oh, thank you for taking my question here. Mike and Mark, I really just want to start out with some of the commentary around heterogeneous integration and High Bandwidth Memory. So on High Bandwidth Memory, can you kind of provide us a little bit further outlook beyond what you think, the $90 million over the next 3 quarters? Do you think High Bandwidth Memory, the wafer starts, is going to grow, in what kind of fashion? Is it, like, more linear, as some other management team seems to believe, or you think it's going to be a much higher growth? Any indication from our customers on High Bandwidth Memory would be great. Then a related question really is about very specifically about CoWoS.

I know heterogeneous integration probably cover a lot of stuff, not just about CoWoS, but specifically on CoWoS, how much opportunity you're seeing today, can you quantify for us? Thank you.

Michael Plisinski (CEO)

Sure. I'll, I'll answer the last one first. Regarding CoWoS, when we talked about heterogeneous integration specific for AI, I think it's pretty, pretty clear that, for instance, NVIDIA, who's driving a lot of this, is, is tied to TSMC and CoWoS. That's a, a fairly significant driver for, for us and, and for that $90 million that we, we mentioned. As far as HBM and the growth overall, what we're seeing is a pretty, pretty rapid increase in demand right now. Part of it is capacity expansions, part of it is, I think, a little bit of process control intensity increase. Certainly, that's the case in the CoWoS area. It's hard to say how that rapid increase continues into 2024.

We certainly expect additional orders in 2024, and we're already having some of those discussions, you know, beyond the first quarter. You know, is it gonna continue on this rapid trajectory, this rapid growth trajectory, or will it start to slow down? You know, that's gonna remain to be seen, and a lot will depend on how quickly, I believe, the enterprise customers adopt AI and these large language models for applications internally.

Charles Shi (Principal, Senior Analyst)

Got it. Can I ask a second question? Maybe advanced nodes. You said advanced nodes, you believe it's bottoming in Q3. Can you clarify a little bit more? Because advanced nodes for, for you guys is not just about memory, but also advanced foundry logic. By between these two, I think you said memory is bottoming in Q3, but what about advanced foundry logic? Can you clarify if I heard something wrong? Thank you.

Michael Plisinski (CEO)

I think where I was talking is overall, we think the bottom's there primarily from DRAM. DRAM has been the biggest drop. Advanced logic has been a little more stable, and we, we, you know, we've seen that have less of a big impact on our advanced nodes and trajectory. We do think advanced nodes, you know... Do we know if logic's gonna snap back right away? No. We, we do see several new fabs being built. Everybody's aware of, you know, Samsung and Taylor and TSMC, Arizona, and opportunities at Intel as well. We continue to see and seed pilot lines and deliver systems as those fabs are being constructed and starting to take some initial systems. We have also seen the construction delays announced by several of these manufacturers.

You know, do we, do we hope for some growth in, you know, second half next year? For sure. We're already starting to see that plateauing of advanced logic, you know, as it is. DRAM is.

Charles Shi (Principal, Senior Analyst)

Thank you, Mark.

Michael Plisinski (CEO)

the big change.

Charles Shi (Principal, Senior Analyst)

I see. Is the DRAM comment, is it more on the HBM related, the reaching that inflection point, is that the mainly the HBM being the driver, or do you see the standard DRAM, maybe the CapEx is also seeing some inflection point? I just want to ask a little bit more on that DRAM comment.

Michael Plisinski (CEO)

Yeah, I think it's certainly the more common DRAM that's, that's driving the, the drops we're seeing. You know, HBM is great, and it's, it's great for our packaging business, and it's picking up some, some DDR5, four, but it's not enough to make up for, you know, PCs and smartphones that are, that are down, right? DRAM overall is impacting us because of the vast rest of the market outside of high-performance computing.

Operator (participant)

We will take our next question from Craig Ellis with B. Riley Securities. Please go ahead.

Craig Ellis (Analyst)

Yeah, thanks for taking the questions, guys. I just wanted to see if I could start with you, Mike, and look beyond the calendar third quarter, because it seems like with the panel lithography shipment timing issue, that we will have at least three and maybe more tools. I was hoping you could clarify how many tools will rev rec in the third quarter there. From there, can you just talk about the gives and takes for fourth quarter revenue? Not looking for specific guidance, just want to understand how the gives and takes play out as we exit the year.

Michael Plisinski (CEO)

Sure. It's actually a continuation of what we're, what we're guiding in, in the third quarter. We see power semiconductors for the fourth quarter, remaining fairly strong. Demand there is, is strong. We're going to introduce the new tools. That'll help a little bit, but that is more a driver for 2024 in the power semiconductor space. Then, you know, heterogeneous packaging, our support specifically for AI devices, i.e, NVIDIA and, you know, some of the CoWoS and HBM that were mentioned, that we can see continuing to strengthen straight through the year. Those are the positives. Obviously, the litho will, will remain sort of stable and, and continue once we catch up with the, with the shift here with the 3 tools. Then the, the advanced nodes, I mean, that's, that's the tailwind.

you know, as I look at Q4, it's a lot of the, the same stories, real strong in heterogeneous packaging, real strong in power, advanced nodes, a bit of a, a bit of a tailwind.

Craig Ellis (Analyst)

Got it. , Mark-

Michael Plisinski (CEO)

overall, we think that the... Sorry. Sorry.

Craig Ellis (Analyst)

Go ahead.

Michael Plisinski (CEO)

Craig, to interrupt. Overall, overall, we expect to be, you know, similar, similar levels of, you know, guidance for, the fourth quarter. We'd expect it to be around the same.

Craig Ellis (Analyst)

Yep. Real helpful, Mike. Then, Mark, I'll follow up with you. The company had a program for optimization and I think just more careful expense management than... That was about 27.5 million at Analyst Day. There was the $25 million program that was announced. Can you just help us understand, to what extent are benefits from those programs factored into the third quarter's guide? What does it mean for the exit level of gross margin this calendar year? Where can gross margin be in the fourth quarter? Then how much of the benefit of those two programs do we see hit in gross margin and OpEx next year? Thank you.

Mark Slicer (CFO)

Yeah. No, I mean, let me start with the, you know, coming off the Analyst Day and the comment around the 25 million, you know, of optimization, 2024 and 2025. I mean, those, that activity, we're executing now. Obviously, we haven't seen the brunt of those savings are, you know, expected to be in 2024 and 2025. We are, as I commented in my prepared remarks, seeing some of that now and, and some slight shifts of suppliers and things like that. You know, we're still focused on that. I think for Q3 and Q4, we, you know, we still have a lot more work to do.

Certainly, you know, we, we have seen some savings and operating expenses, as it relates to, you know, taking costs out and offsetting the kind of the annualization year-over-year. You know, certainly in the back half, we're focused on that, you know, those continued reduction plans. The Q3, we do have, certainly some of that continued to be baked in, you know, in where we are from a gross margin and OpEx standpoint. I think, you know, as we look at the decline, in advanced nodes, fortunately, we have programs in place right now.

You know, we're looking and executing even, even further reductions in Q3 and Q4 as we look towards that decline, and making sure that we can continue to drive gross margin accretion, you know, back up above, you know, where we, you know, the 53%-54%. You know, our, our goal is, you know, you know, from a full year perspective, is still to target that 53%-54%, you know, and, and, and align to the long-term operating model of getting back to 55% plus longer term. So that's, that's our target.

Craig Ellis (Analyst)

so that would imply that you should be at least 54% in the Q4 to get to 53%-54% for the full year mark?

Mark Slicer (CFO)

I won't comment on it specifically, but I think from a, you know, from where we are and in trying to figure out what the business will be in Q4, I think, you know, our goal is obviously to continue to drive that, you know, 53, target 53+ in Q4.

Craig Ellis (Analyst)

Got it. Thanks, guys.

Mark Slicer (CFO)

I would, yeah.

Operator (participant)

We will take our next question from Brian Chin with Stifel. Please go ahead.

Brian Chin (Analyst)

Hi there. Good, good evening or early evening, and thanks. Let us ask a few questions. Maybe, maybe to start with, Mike, yeah, I think you, you have really good, strong visibility on the packaging, especially side of the business. The visibility is clearly not great in terms of the advanced nodes. Would you characterize the level of not just DRAM, but also memory investments, including non-volatile memory? Does it feel like it's below sort of normalized, kind of, you know, maintenance or even sub-maintenance levels at, at this point? Does that give you some of the conviction in saying that Q3 looks like a bottom right now?

Michael Plisinski (CEO)

Meaning couldn't go lower? Yeah, it is, it is pretty, it is pretty low, as I don't know if I've ever seen, you know, this much of a drop for this long of a period of time. I think that then you're starting to hear from our, from our customers as well, that they're, they're beginning to see signs of price increase and, and inventories are coming down and that kind of thing. I think it's, it's at or below maintenance levels, and when it recovers, I don't know, but I, I'm not expecting a very quick snapback. We're not planning for that. You know, that'd be a nice surprise. Right now, that's why we're saying, you know, we don't expect Q3 to... We expect Q3 to be the bottom.

Brian Chin (Analyst)

Okay. Yeah, fair enough. I, I, I know that the, yeah, lithography has always been a bit bumpy and a bit lumpy for you guys. It sounds like, obviously, you take the 3 units. If you park them in 2 Q, you're kind of, revenuing up, and you take it out of the 3rd quarter guidance, you're, you're kind of flat. Given that dynamic, and you maybe you ship 6 tools in 3 Q, is that kind of, you know, flattish preliminary 4th quarter outlook? Is that really saying that the X500 lithography ships maybe back to normalized levels, maybe down a few units, Q on Q, and then you make that up with, with some of the growth that you're seeing in the other businesses?

Michael Plisinski (CEO)

Yeah, we think the litho will be. You know, it depends a little bit on timing because we're trying to catch up on things, so there may be one or two tools that would move, you know, forward into the first quarter, but it would more or less normalize at that 20 million or so that we've always talked about. 20 million-25 million, you know, revenue.

Brian Chin (Analyst)

Okay. Got it. Got it. Just framing up sort of the specialty business where, you know, that's a synergy you've talked about in terms of technology and customer synergies, and that, you know, I think you'd expect to bear more fruit this upcycle than, than kind of what you're able to progress on last upcycle. So if you look at kind of calendar 2022, and already you're, you're having some pretty good run rates on the specialty side of the business, how much larger, you know, in three years, could that specialty revenue for you guys be relative to the, you know, the calendar 2022 year, when you guys were at $1 billion, and that was going to be, you know, a smaller amount of the revenue contribution to $1 billion?

How much bigger could specialty be in three years, say?

Michael Plisinski (CEO)

Compared to current level? I mean, it depends on spending from the customers, right? To estimate out three years is always tough, but I can say that our adoption rate is only beginning. We're just winning new customers. I think we added five new customers in the quarter. Those are just initial sales. They'll buy a couple of tools, then there's going to be repeat sales as they continue to grow, and every one of those customers is a potential to sell more of the portfolio. We have opportunities to not only continue to add customers, but continue to grow our portfolio within the customers. If we're, you know, looking at where we end up for this year, I wouldn't be surprised if we could double that revenue in 3 years.

Brian Chin (Analyst)

Okay. All right.

Michael Plisinski (CEO)

Given the growth dynamics in the industry and given our positions and the new products we're releasing and the value that we're delivering with these connected solutions, these integrated portfolios to solve unique problems.

Brian Chin (Analyst)

All right. Thanks, Mike.

Operator (participant)

We will take our next question from David Duley with Steelhead Securities. Please go ahead.

David Duley (Analyst)

Yes, thanks for taking my questions. As far as High Bandwidth Memory goes, could you just talk about how much more inspection and intensive it is versus just a standard DDR5 product? As my second question, as far as your advanced nodes business goes for calendar 2023, how much would you expect the memory business to be down, and how much would you expect the foundry and logic to be down?

Michael Plisinski (CEO)

Again, I'll start with the last one. For 2023, I'd expect, I don't have the numbers directly in front of me, but I would expect memory to be down, probably double what logic is down. You know, doesn't help you too much, but, you know, I don't know if logic is, might be down 20%. You know, DRAM, memory might be down, you know, double that, 40%. As for HBM and the attach rates, the process control intensity versus normal DRAM, it's a good question. The number of applications, so I would say it's two to three times more process control intensive, at least for our applications on our Dragonfly, than normal DRAM and DRAM packaging.

That's because of the, the layers and the amount of metrology and inspection involved in preparing these die to be stacked and to be connected to other die in the stack. There's a lot, lot more metrology coinciding with our inspection, in order to make those, those, packages yield.

David Duley (Analyst)

And as far as-

Michael Plisinski (CEO)

The metrology is on our inspection tool, so that drives the utilization of our inspection tool. It's all integrated, just not to add any confusion.

David Duley (Analyst)

Okay. As far as High Bandwidth Memory goes, it is, and your outlook there, is that I'm assuming that's just with one lead, lead DRAM manufacturer. I don't really think the other guys have a lot of product in the marketplace at this point. Is that the way to look at it, or are you working with more than one guy in High Bandwidth Memory?

Michael Plisinski (CEO)

We're working with more than one, but one certainly dominates more than the other.

David Duley (Analyst)

Okay, thanks.

Operator (participant)

We will take our next question from Vedvati Shrotri with Jefferies. Please go ahead.

Vedvati Shrotre (Analyst)

Hi, thanks for taking my question. I guess I wanted to ask about the packaging a little bit more. You talked about the $90 million opportunity over three quarters. Is that more towards HBM versus, like, a CoWoS capacity? Can, can you characterize what, what or kind of what the split is between, like, a heterogeneous integration versus HBM?

Michael Plisinski (CEO)

Yeah, I would say 60/40. A lot of it is on the logic side, so CoWoS, I'd say. Then, you know, the rest on the HBM.

Vedvati Shrotre (Analyst)

Right. Then for my follow-up there, you know, you have TSMC talking about doubling their CoWoS capacity. Amkor is sort of tripling their 2.5D capacity. How should we think about, like, how does this translate to the revenue opportunity for you? Is it like a direct link of, you know, doubling capacity means doubling revenues for you, or how does that equation work?

Michael Plisinski (CEO)

Far, it looks that way. There's a very high attach rate, what we're seeing. You know, right now, that would be how I'd model it. If yields improve and they start to drive, let's say, a normalization and an optimization, they may reduce the process control, but if anything, we're seeing an increase in process control as they're trying to add, improve yield. That's why I mentioned the increase in process control intensity. We think maybe even, you know, since the beginning of the year till now, maybe 20% or more increase in process control intensity on the logic side. Heterogeneous packaging on the logic side, CoWoS.

Vedvati Shrotre (Analyst)

Kind of going, you know, if I think about what your install base was in 2021, 2022 for like a Dragonfly inspection tool, most of that was for kind of smartphone markets, where they do flip chip bumps, right? How is the fungibility of those tools? Like, as the utilization is low on maybe smartphones, are they fungible, as in, can they be used from, in an in full process to a CoWoS process? Is that a possibility? Or do you need a different set of tools or a different config?

Michael Plisinski (CEO)

Generally, they're in different, different lines, so it's, the tools would have to be moved. The tools are configured very differently for, you know, your traditional fan-out or, or just traditional bump. The amount of sensors and, and the capabilities like Clearfind, which is a, you know, another option on our tool, those are all required for, for the HBM and for the, for the heterogeneous, the logic side.

Vedvati Shrotre (Analyst)

So-

Michael Plisinski (CEO)

It's not really fungible. We haven't seen anyone trying to move our product, our existing tools into those lines. It's all new tools.

Vedvati Shrotre (Analyst)

Okay. Does that mean the gross margins sort of end up higher when you're addressing, like a CoWoS HBM application versus what it was historically?

Michael Plisinski (CEO)

I believe so, but I'd have to... We'd have to get back to you on that.

Vedvati Shrotre (Analyst)

Okay. Thank you. That's all I had, and I'll get back in the queue.

Operator (participant)

We will take our next question from Mark Miller with Benchmark. Please go ahead.

Mark Miller (Analyst)

Thank you for the question. The $90 million volume purchase order for process control, how do those, how does that order ship in terms of the third and fourth quarter? Is it equally divided? Is it going to be more back-end loaded?

Michael Plisinski (CEO)

that we're working on. We're, we're projecting the 90 million, and, and when it's, when it's finalized with the customers, we'll be able to, to provide clarity on the, on the rollout of that and the, and the follow-on, the size of the follow-on, additional orders we expect. I would expect Q3 to be a little lighter, Q3 and Q4 and Q1 to be maybe semi-equal, between that, between that ramp.

Mark Miller (Analyst)

You announced 18 power customers, first-time orders. Any, any new power customers this quarter or the June quarter?

Michael Plisinski (CEO)

Yep, we had five new power customers this quarter.

Mark Miller (Analyst)

Thank you.

Michael Plisinski (CEO)

You're welcome.

Operator (participant)

There are no further questions at this time. I will now turn the conference back over to Mr. Sheaffer for any additional or closing remarks.

Mike Sheaffer (Senior Director, Investor Relations, Corporate Communications and Market Research)

Thanks, Cynthia. Just a quick reminder for everybody about 3 upcoming events. First, Onto Management will be participating in the Needham Semicap Virtual Conference on August 23rd. Second, we'll be participating in the Jefferies Semi Conference in Chicago on August 29th. And third, we will be at the Benchmark Conference in New York City on September 13th. Thanks again for joining us today. A replay of the call is going to be available, on our website about 7:30 P.M. Eastern Time this evening. We'd like to thank you for your continued interest in Onto Innovation. Cynthia, please conclude the call. Thank you.

Operator (participant)

Thank you, gentlemen. This concludes today's call. Thank you for your participation, and you may now disconnect.