Resources Connection - Earnings Call - Q2 2026

Transcript

Operator (participant)

Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to the Resources Connection, Inc. conference call. Currently, all participants are in a listen-only mode. Later, we will conduct a question-and-answer session, and instructions will follow at that time. As a reminder, this conference call is being recorded. At this time, I would like to remind everyone that management will be commenting on results for the second quarter ended November 29, 2025.

They will also refer to certain non-GAAP financial measures. An explanation and reconciliation of these measures to the most comparable GAAP financial measures are included in the press release issued today. Today's press release can be viewed in the investor relations section of RGP's website and filed today with the SEC. Also, during this call, management may make forward-looking statements regarding plans, initiatives, and strategies in the anticipated financial performance of the company.

Such statements are predictions, and actual events or results may differ materially. Please see the Risk Factors section in RGP's report on Form 10-K for the year ended May 31, 2025, for a discussion of risks, uncertainties, and other factors that may cause the company's business, results of operations, and financial condition to differ materially from what is expressed or implied by forward-looking statements made during this call. I'll now turn the call over to RGP's CEO, Roger Carlile.

Roger Carlile (CEO)

Thank you, and welcome everyone to Resources Connection Q2 earnings call. Before we get into the quarterly earnings discussion, I want to thank our leadership and employees for welcoming me as the company's newly appointed CEO and for supporting a smooth transition. I also want to recognize our teams for maintaining a strong focus on our clients and our business during this time. I mentioned both our clients and our business as focal points because we have employees who serve our clients' needs as well as employees who support the needs of our client service professionals and our business. Both employee groups are critical to our success. For those of you on today's call with whom I have not yet had an opportunity to speak, I look forward to doing so in the near future.

I recognize that you have invested time understanding the company, its services, and markets, and we appreciate your interest and effort. Regarding our business, let me start by saying my enthusiasm for the company's future has grown since stepping into this role in November. The deeper I get into our business, the more impressed I am with the talent and capabilities here, but even more so with the commitment and enthusiasm I find when talking with our people. The quality of our people is reflected in the caliber of longstanding and newly activated clients who trust us to assist them with issues they view as important to their success.

I also want to say that while the market for our services has been more challenging and uncertain of late for a variety of reasons, I believe there is a sufficiently large market of client needs for which RGP is positioned to serve that will allow us to grow our business and financial results. However, doing so requires that we focus on what gives us a competitive right to win. That is, providing relevant skills and solutions to our clients which satisfy their needs at a price that brings them better overall value than other providers in the marketplace. Our balance sheet and liquidity are strong, which is a testament to the resilience of our people and client relationships, as well as the flexibility of our business model. However, our quarterly earnings results also reflect a continued lack of positive momentum for our consolidated revenue and Adjusted EBITDA.

These results underscore the need to take decisive actions to better align our cost structure with our current revenue levels, refocus our on-demand offerings to address the evolving needs of our clients, and scale our consulting business to deliver high-value solutions to both existing and new clients. These three points will form the basis of our strategy going forward. We have already made progress this quarter in reducing our cost structure to better align it with our current revenue levels, and we will continue this work in the third quarter. Improving our financial results in the on-demand segment requires that we better understand our clients' current needs and adjust our ability to provide consultants that fit those needs. Scaling our consulting business requires identifying and hiring experienced consulting professionals to grow our ability to deliver value-added solutions to our clients.

In the evolving consulting marketplace, we are finding that these types of professionals understand and are excited about the competitive nature of RGP's service offering model and value proposition it offers to clients. We believe this will make us a strong employer choice for such professionals going forward.

We also believe that RGP's ability to provide in-demand finance, risk operational performance, and technology solutions in three differing delivery models, that is, on-demand, consulting, and outsourced services, at a price point that is competitive to other traditional professional service firms gives us an opportunity to be uniquely successful in winning and serving clients' needs in the changing landscape for such services. Lastly, no professional services firm can succeed in the present and future market without understanding how artificial intelligence, automation, and other technologies are impacting their clients' businesses and how it impacts the professional services they seek and procure.

This is no different for RGP, and we are actively working to understand how our clients' needs are impacted by their own AI and automation strategies. Likewise, at RGP, we are continuing to implement additional AI and automation tools across our business processes to enhance the cost-effectiveness of our client service delivery and internal business support functions. The work we have discussed so far today and the achievement of the expected results will certainly require time and disciplined execution, but the path forward is clear, and we are confident these actions will strengthen our business and create long-term value for our clients and shareholders. With that, let me turn the call over to Bhadresh.

Bhadresh Patel (COO)

Thank you, Roger, and good afternoon, everyone. Before I begin, I want to welcome Roger as our new Chief Executive Officer. With Roger's leadership and fresh perspective, we are well-positioned to strengthen execution, accelerate our strategic priorities, and drive operational discipline across the organization, capitalizing on our inherent strength. In the second quarter, we exceeded expectations in Adjusted EBITDA despite revenue coming in below consensus, reflecting disciplined cost management and execution.

In North America, expanded go-to-market initiatives across our on-demand and consulting segments, along with stronger cross-practice collaboration, drove improved pipeline activity. Our Europe and Asia Pac segment delivered both year-over-year and sequential growth. While outsourced services revenue remained essentially flat versus the prior year, we achieved meaningful improvement in gross margins. Overall, we remained focused on value-based pricing, targeted investments, and leadership and service capabilities to drive momentum and cost discipline.

Jenn will provide additional details on our performance and efficiency initiatives shortly. With that, let me turn to our performance by segment. While consulting segment revenue declined year-over-year, we delivered essentially flat sequential revenue with growth in select areas of CFO advisory and digital transformation. Bill rates continue to improve both sequentially and year-over-year, with higher increases on new projects, reflecting the strong demand for our specialized services. We're also moving up the value chain with existing clients, for example, highlighted in Q2 by a large technology company selecting RGP as a global preferred consulting provider, expanding our role from on-demand talent into advisory services on mission-critical work streams. As part of our strategy to grow the consulting segment, we'll complete the integration of Reference Point by the end of the fiscal year.

Combining Reference Point's capabilities with our consulting platform and leadership will enhance collaboration, streamline go-to-market execution, and strengthen our focus on CFO Advisory and Digital Transformation. This positions us to deepen relationships with existing on-demand clients while also expanding our reach to new clients. Finally, on consulting, I want to thank John Bowman as he begins a well-earned retirement. His vision and commitment to both client and employee values leave a lasting impact on RGP. I'm pleased to announce Scott Rothman, who joined RGP in August, will succeed John as president of consulting services, leading our CFO Advisory and Digital Transformation offerings. Under Scott's leadership, we will strengthen our integrated consulting segment and deliver client value across strategy transformation and on-demand talent.

Turning to on-demand, revenue declined year-over-year but continues to show signs of sequential stabilization, supported by higher average bill rates compared to both the same period last year and the prior quarter. We remain focused on execution and disciplined pipeline management with emphasis on skills for ERP, finance transformation, data, and supply chain. Across North America, several markets delivered sequential revenue growth, and in markets that are lagging, we're in the process of bringing in new leadership.

Turning to international, our Europe and Asia Pac segment delivered both year-over-year and sequential revenue growth in the second quarter, supported by higher weekly revenue run rates and improved bill rates versus the prior year, while maintaining stable gross margins. Performance was led by Europe, Japan, India, and the Philippines, underscoring the strength of our client relationships and the effectiveness of our regional strategy.

We are committed to deepening multinational client relationships along with expanding our local client base, differentiating through a combination of local delivery and scalable global delivery centers, and maintaining disciplined cost management. Lastly, in Outsourced Services, revenue remained steady year-over-year and gross margins improved versus the prior year. We continue to add new clients to our platform while also exhibiting strong retention, and bottom-line performance benefited from both operating leverage and efficiency measures. To conclude, we remain focused on disciplined execution and delivering meaningful value to clients across all segments while continuing to see our strategy take shape and position RGP for sustained growth, profitability, and value creation over time. With that, I'll now turn the call over to Jenn.

Jenn Ryu (CFO)

Thank you, Bhadresh. Good afternoon and Happy New Year, everyone. Consolidated revenue for the second quarter was around the midpoint of our outlook range, $117.7 million. While gross margin of 37.1% was below the outlook, run rate SG&A expense of $39.7 million was significantly more favorable, enabling us to deliver adjusted EBITDA of $4 million in the second quarter, or a 3.4% adjusted EBITDA margin. We incurred $11.9 million of one-time expenses in the quarter in connection with the CEO transition and a reduction in force, contributing to a GAAP net loss of $12.7 million. I'll now provide some additional color on our revenue, gross margin, and run rate SG&A expense. Consolidated revenue declined 18.4% on the year-over-year constant currency basis from the prior year quarter.

While on-demand and consulting segment revenues remain soft, we are encouraged by the steady year-over-year growth in the Europe and Asia Pac and outsourced services segments. We continue to focus on improving sales execution as well as aligning both our consulting solutions and on-demand talent pool to client demand to drive more pipeline growth and faster revenue conversion. Gross margin for the quarter was 37.1% compared to 38.5% in the prior year quarter. We drove a 97 basis points improvement in pay-bill ratio. However, leverage on indirect cost of service was unfavorable, notably related to healthcare costs and paid time off, including higher holiday pay due to Thanksgiving coming in the second quarter of this year. Enterprise-wide average bill rate was $121 constant currency versus $123 a year ago, driven mostly by revenue mix shift toward the Asia-Pacific region.

On an individual segment basis, we saw a 6.4% improvement in consulting and a 2.4% improvement in both on-demand and Europe and Asia Pac segments. As we continue to execute our pricing strategy and scale the consulting business to deliver higher value, larger scale engagements, we expect to gain more upside in bill rate. Now onto our SG&A and cost structure. While we have been on a continuous journey to reduce costs over the last few years, we are conducting an even deeper assessment across the entire organization to streamline organizational structure, simplify processes, and adopt automation and AI to ensure our cost structure is adequately sized to the current revenue levels. The assessment is near completion, and we expect to implement the cost actions over a 12-month period. In October, we executed a reduction in force, the first in the series of actions to come in 2026.

The RIF impacted 5% of our management and administrative headcount and is expected to yield annual savings of $6 million-$8 million. Back to our improved SG&A performance for the second quarter, enterprise run rate SG&A expense for the quarter was $39.7 million, a 15% improvement from $46.5 million a year ago. Management compensation expense improved significantly by $3 million as a result of the reduction in force we executed this quarter and at the end of fiscal 2025.

The remainder of the year-over-year improvement in SG&A is attributable to lower variable compensation and reduced SG&A spend, including travel, occupancy, and professional services. Next, I'll provide some additional color on segment performance. All year-over-year percentage comparisons for revenue are adjusted for business days and currency impact, and as a reminder, segment-adjusted EBITDA excludes certain shared corporate costs.

Revenue for our on-demand segment was $43 million, a decline of 18.4% versus prior year quarter. Segment-adjusted EBITDA was $4.1 million, or a margin of 9.5% relative to $5.6 million, or a 10.5% margin in Q2 of fiscal 2025. Revenue for our consulting segment was $42.6 million, a decline of 28.8% from the prior year quarter. Segment-adjusted EBITDA was $4.5 million, or a 10.4% margin compared to $9.7 million, or a 16% margin in Q2 fiscal 2025. Turning to our Europe and Asia Pac segment, revenue was $20.1 million, or a 0.6% growth from the prior year quarter. Segment-adjusted EBITDA was $1.5 million in both years, representing a 7.4% margin in Q2 fiscal 2026 and a 7.5% margin in Q2 fiscal 2025. Finally, our outsourced services segment revenue was $9.4 million, up 0.8% compared to the prior year quarter.

Segment-adjusted EBITDA was $1.7 million, or an 18.4% margin, up from $1.5 million, or a 16.4% margin. Turning to liquidity, our balance sheet remains strong with $89.8 million of cash and cash equivalents and zero outstanding debt. Quarterly dividend distributions total $2.3 million. With cash on hand combined with available borrowing capacity under our credit facility, we will continue to take a balanced approach to capital allocation between investing in the business to drive growth and returning cash to shareholders through dividends and opportunistic share buybacks under our repurchase program, which had $79 million remaining at the end of the quarter.

I'll now close with our third quarter outlook. Early third quarter non-holiday weekly revenue run rate has been largely consistent with the second quarter. As expected, due to the midweek timing of Christmas and New Year's Day, revenues from those two holiday weeks were much softer. Taking into account this seasonality and based on our current revenue backlog and expectations on late-stage pipeline deals, our outlook calls for revenue of $105 million-$110 million in the third quarter.

On the gross margin front, with the same seasonality impacting utilization and holiday pay for agile consultants, as well as employer payroll tax reset at the start of a new calendar year, we expect a gross margin of 35%-36% in the third quarter. Now on to SG&A. Reflecting realized benefits from our cost reduction efforts offset by higher employer payroll taxes, run rate SG&A expense in the third quarter is expected to be in the range of $40 million-$42 million. Non-run rate and non-cash expenses will be in the range of $6 million-$7 million, consisting of non-cash stock compensation and restructuring costs.

In closing, reiterating what Roger stated earlier, our strategy and our path forward are clear. We will continue to focus on improving our sales execution, optimizing our talent and consulting solutions to serve the needs of our clients, driving an efficient cost structure to strengthen our business and deliver more value for our clients and shareholders. This concludes our prepared remarks, and we will now open the call for Q&A.

Operator (participant)

Thank you. As a reminder, to ask a question, please press star one one on your telephone and wait for your name to be announced. To withdraw your question, please press star one one again. One moment for questions. Our first question comes from Mark Marcon, with Robert W. Baird. You may proceed.

Mark Marcon (Senior Research Analyst)

Hey, good afternoon, everybody, and nice to talk to you, Roger, and welcome to the company. I'm wondering, can you talk a little bit about or elaborate a little bit on the specific areas where you're seeing AI leading to some disintermediation with regards to finance and accounting roles? And I'm specifically interested in terms of how widespread is it at this point? How do you expect it to continue? Specific roles and how you're adjusting to that.

Roger Carlile (CEO)

Sure. Good to meet you. And I'll let Bhadresh add, he's been here longer dealing with it than me. But I think we're seeing, for example, in operational accounting roles, things that you can imagine through AI or automation are easiest to replicate and replace. And so that would be some of the roles that we see as most impacted by our clients' efforts in that regard in the AI and automation world. In terms of how widespread that is, I mean, I think my sense, again, I'll ask Bhadresh to add it as well. My sense would be that it's like most of the things we hear about AI, there's a lot of activity going on.

Those things that are internal, like those processes, are where AI and automation are having the earliest impacts, but there's still a lot of spending and still a lot of activity that's not been realized or benefits not being realized by clients. So I think it remains to be seen how pervasive and how rapidly that occurs, but we are seeing that. And Bhadresh, add if you think there's something else to add.

Bhadresh Patel (COO)

Thank you, Roger. And I think you're spot on. What we're seeing with clients and everyone is, what I would say, is experimenting with AI to see what leverage they can get in their organization, especially in finance. As Roger said, the operational accounting roles, what I would call more transactional, repeatable roles, are getting replaced. However, what we're finding is that it's getting clients access to data quickly and analytics of the data quickly and informing their ability to get their business more efficient, but that is requiring more work, right, to go execute. So we're not seeing that big windfall that everyone is expecting that AI is going to replace so many jobs.

It is accelerating the ability for our finance organization and clients' finance organizations to provide insights to their segments in terms of performance, predictability, future trends, and things like that so people can take action on it. Our clients are also seeing that. I think a lot of them have continued to invest. Some feel like they're overinvesting and not realizing the benefits. So we feel like, obviously, time will tell where this will land, but it's still in the early stages, akin to the early days of digital transformation where everyone was overspending until they normalized it. The second part of this is, as clients are understanding how to leverage AI for their organization, it's just not that AI is replacing jobs. It's also changing processes and how companies operate.

So it's becoming a transformation initiative that should drive our ability to provide more services requiring higher talented people that can understand what the impact of AI is, what AI can do, and then how that business operates and changes the way they work, not only within the function, but the interaction with other functions.

Mark Marcon (Senior Research Analyst)

That's really helpful.

Roger Carlile (CEO)

Thanks, Bhadresh. I just want to add one thing. I think the second part of your question was, what are we doing about it?

Mark Marcon (Senior Research Analyst)

Right.

Roger Carlile (CEO)

In our comments, that our talent teams and our on-demand teams are working with clients to understand what skills they need in that environment. As Bhadresh said, there's certain skills and projects that are caused because of that work, and there's certain skills that are needed because of the technology being a major driver of that. So, as we mentioned in our script, ERP skills and other kinds of technology skills. So we're looking to shift our skill base towards the things that clients most need in this environment.

Bhadresh Patel (COO)

Yeah. And Roger, to add to that, I think what's becoming inherently clear is that the higher-level skills that we are staffing in the on-demand business, what clients are seeking is that they are also becoming AI experts or AI knowledgeable for that particular function or particular role, and that's becoming critical. I think on the consulting side, what we're seeing is that as clients are taking on these AI initiatives, data authenticity and accuracy is becoming a bigger issue, right, which is leading to bigger data projects for data cleanup and data tagging and things like that. So that's where a lot of focus is coming up in order for them to realize the pure benefits of AI as they look at end-to-end implementation of it.

Mark Marcon (Senior Research Analyst)

Just to elaborate a little bit, can you just, you have a fairly broad swath of the Fortune 500 that you serve. How widespread is what you're currently seeing? And then can you be a little bit more precise with regards to the types of roles? Are we talking about just accounts receivables and payables, reconciliations, data entry, or historically, you've also supplied people that were providing some analytical capabilities as well? And so I'm trying to understand to what extent are these lower-level roles rather than also impacting higher-level roles?

Bhadresh Patel (COO)

Yeah. I mean, the lower-level roles are definitely getting impacted, right, because AI is able to do those types of analysis and things like that as you leverage learning models to do that. In the higher-level roles, we don't see it as an impact. What we're seeing is a skill reconciliation is what I will say, or skill evolution, and says we're providing, for example, a controller or anything like that, or a senior financial analyst in these types of roles.

They are looking for those that actually understand AI, know how to use AI, and know how to implement AI to leverage it more. And that's, I think, the distinction we're seeing in reconciliation, receivables, all those types of things are the evolution of RPA into AI. But FP&A is becoming a big area where clients are starting to use AI to really start to look at how do they accelerate what we've historically done in Excel spreadsheets to drive those types of analytics and data. So that's where we're really seeing the distinction.

Mark Marcon (Senior Research Analyst)

Right. And then, Roger, you mentioned scaling up in consulting, and you mentioned incremental hiring there. Can you talk a little bit about the practices and the areas that you want to focus in within consulting?

Roger Carlile (CEO)

Yeah. I think it's the issues that still remain in high demand in corporates, corporate America, for example. So financial, financial transformation, financial technologies, technology generally, data analytics, RIF, all those kinds of things, tax that get towards the ability to, in some cases, both for the clients to do more with less, for the clients to have a better view of their own organizations, all of those things, and drive value. So all of those things, I think, are still in high demand. Clients may be a little more cautious in taking the time to assess what they're doing, but those are still in high-demand services. And so we're looking to add our capabilities in those regards, those areas.

Mark Marcon (Senior Research Analyst)

Great. And then, Jenn, just a clarification. With regards to the SG&A, you mentioned $40 million-$42 million, and then you mentioned $6 million-$7 million in terms of stock comp and restructuring. Is the $40 million-$42 million inclusive or exclusive of that $6 million-$7 million in stock comp and restructuring?

Jenn Ryu (CFO)

Yeah. The $40 million-$42 million is exclusive. So $6 million-$7 million of non-cash and non-run rate restructuring costs on top of the $40 million-$42 million. And the reason why it's comparable, essentially, to our third quarter SG&A is because while we're realizing the benefits and the latest reduction in force we did in October, from a seasonality standpoint, we have the payroll tax reset. And also, when we did the RIF in October, essentially, Q2 already kind of has almost a full quarter of benefit already in there. But to answer your question, the $6 million-$7 million of non-run rate is in addition to, not a part of the $40 million-$42 million.

Mark Marcon (Senior Research Analyst)

And then how much of an impact was the higher healthcare costs? And are you doing anything in terms of plan design changes with regards to what you offer to your employees to ameliorate that?

Jenn Ryu (CFO)

Yeah. The healthcare this quarter is about a $1 million+ impact compared to Q2. So it is significant. It impacted both our SG&A and probably lesser impact on SG&A, but a lot of impact on gross margin. Yes, we do take an annual assessment of our plan design, and we also kind of look at the cost ratio sharing between employer and employees. I would say that this quarter, this is an anomaly. We got a lot of unfavorable claims experience in October specifically. So I don't expect that this, or at least I would think that this is an anomaly. So I think that this should normalize. Again, we don't have control over our claims experience, but we do take a pretty deep look on an annual basis on our plan design.

Mark Marcon (Senior Research Analyst)

Okay. Great. And then, Roger, I didn't want to focus on the micro questions initially, but I'd love to come back to just kind of the broader strategic framework. It sounded like you're basically going to be looking at things over the next 12 months. I'm wondering if you can just talk a little bit about what you're going to really focus on and what your vision is. And it's probably going to end up changing as you learn more about the company. But what your vision is for what investors should expect 12 to 24 months from now?

Roger Carlile (CEO)

I think I'm not sure the strategy itself changes at a high level. I mean, we're going to be focused on our on-demand services and our consulting services. And that's the two biggest things we do, and it's where we can drive a lot of value for our clients. So I think it's why we said the three focal points for our strategy in the near term, 12 months or longer if it takes, is get the cost structure aligned with our revenue so that we're profitable on that basis. For lack of a better word, fix our on-demand.

What I mean by that is what we've talked about, which is be sure we're getting in front of our clients with our sales team and really understanding what the clients need, and then working with our talent team to be sure that we are sourcing and have that kind of talent to offer them so that we can bring that kind of value to clients and do that in a focused and consistent manner, and then thirdly, grow the consulting segment that we can deliver those services. We can do that now, but we're not particularly scaled in those capabilities that we talked about earlier, and so we want to add those, and I think we can grow.

I think we have a real right to win in this space because of our ability to deliver in those three different modes that we spoke about earlier and to do so at a price point that creates, I think, a better overall value than some of the other competitors in the marketplace. But all of that requires that we're focused in what we do, and then we have the right talent in place to do it. And so there's some work in that. And for me, that's the main thing. Those items we just spoke about are the main thing we're focused on over the next 12 months. I can't tell you when I think exactly we'll see the results of that. I'd like to think you will start seeing it. It won't be three quarters of nothing and then all in one quarter. So I'd like to think you'll start to see some incremental improvement as quarters go on, but I don't think that's going to be in the next quarter. I think there's a lot of work that we have to do.

Mark Marcon (Senior Research Analyst)

I appreciate it. Thank you.

Roger Carlile (CEO)

Thank you.

Operator (participant)

Thank you. As a reminder, to ask a question, please press star one one on your telephone. Our next question comes from Kartik Mehta with Northcoast Research. You may proceed.

Kartik Mehta (Executive Managing Director)

Hey, good evening, Roger and Jenn. Roger, I know you started talking about AI, and I'm wondering, is that causing any of your clients to maybe take a step back as they try to figure out how they want to implement AI, what roles they might want? And is that causing any delays from a decision standpoint?

Roger Carlile (CEO)

Yeah. I don't know if that itself is causing any decision delay. I think there are things that happen in the market where there's some level of uncertainty that would contribute to decision delays by clients. I think in the case of AI and automation, clients, first of all, I think by and large, like you read in a number of places, resources, I think there's more interest and effort to implement it than there is more impact and value yet from any clients. So I think it's fits and starts, right? If you start the investment, you might have told whoever was authorizing that investment that we're not going to need quite so much human capital to do these processes so you don't hire as much. And then later you find out you do need it.

So there can be some sort of starts and stops, but I think it's really more about what roles will AI sort of successfully make less necessary. And then, as Bhadresh said earlier, what roles will AI enhance the capability of and actually make those roles more necessary or more efficient or successful in what they do? So there is some learning, I think, is going on with clients, but I don't know that that's particularly contributing to decision delay. I don't know, Bhadresh, you have a view on that.

Bhadresh Patel (COO)

Yeah. The only thing I would add, Roger, is that what clients are getting bombarded with is spot technologies for a particular process or a spot process that AI can automate. And it's conflicting potentially with their enterprise applications. And those vendors are also SaaS-based products, which are saying they have AI in their products. And so no one's really matured full AI into all of their products, right? So the clients are wrestling with, "Does my ERP system have AI now, and can I leverage it, or do I need a spot technology to fill a gap and then integrate that with my ERP technology to do that?" So we're seeing that type of confusion right now, right? We're finding some clients that are very forward-thinking, willing to experiment and go aggressive and understand that they may have to undo some things.

And we always have laggard clients that are asking a lot of questions and want to kind of dip their toes in but hesitant to do it. So we're seeing all sorts of spectrums around this. I don't think we're seeing delayed decisions, right, in purchasing. But what clients are inquiring more about is, "What can we do with AI with what we have, and what can we do with AI with what we don't have?" And that's the bigger debate with clients than it is a slowdown in decision-making.

Kartik Mehta (Executive Managing Director)

Jenn, just on the gross margins, I know we talked about the healthcare costs obviously impacting both gross margin and SG&A, and then there's the extra holiday. If you try to take those out, kind of normalize gross margins, where do you think gross margins would have been for this quarter? For the quarter reported, I apologize.

Jenn Ryu (CFO)

Yeah. This quarter and Q2, the impact of healthcare is almost 100 basis points. So without the additional sort of the abnormal healthcare costs, we probably would have reached 38%. And then Q3, typically, that's our seasonality, right, because we have a lot of holidays in there. So there's definitely seasonality, healthcare, a lot of noise. But if you look at our pay-bill ratio, it has steadily improved over the last, probably last full three, four, probably plus quarters. And of course, Kartik, I mean, the impact of all of these indirect costs on gross margin also has to do with our revenue level too and that leverage. So I think the main thing that we really focus on is things that we can control, which is the average bill rate and continue to improve that. And also, then, on the consulting side, is to improve our utilization, which I think we've made pretty good progress in the last couple of quarters.

Kartik Mehta (Executive Managing Director)

Perfect. Thank you very much. I appreciate it.

Operator (participant)

Thank you. I would now like to turn the call back over to Roger Carlile for any closing remarks.

Roger Carlile (CEO)

Thank you, Operator, and thanks everyone for joining our call today. As I said earlier, we appreciate your interest in RGP, and as I mentioned, I look forward to speaking with many of you in the coming months. Don't hesitate to reach out with any additional questions, and I hope everyone has a Happy New Year. Thank you again.

Operator (participant)

Thank you. This concludes the conference. Thank you for your participation. You may now disconnect.