Safehold - Q2 2023

Transcript

Operator (participant)

Reminder, today's conference is being recorded. At this time, for opening remarks and introductions, I would like to turn the conference over to Pearse Hoffmann, Senior Vice President of Capital Markets and Investor Relations. Please go ahead, sir.

Pearse Hoffmann (SVP of Capital Markets and Investor Relations)

Good afternoon, everyone. Thank you for joining us today for Safehold's earnings call. On the call today, we have Jay Sugarman, Chairman and Chief Executive Officer; Marcos Alvarado, President and Chief Investment Officer; and Brett Asnas, Chief Financial Officer. This afternoon, we plan to walk through a presentation that details our second quarter 2023 results. The presentation can be found on our website at safeholdinc.com by clicking on the Investors link. There will be a replay of this conference call beginning at 8:00 P.M. Eastern Time today. The dial-in for the replay is 877-481-4010, with a confirmation code of 48759. Before I turn the call over to Jay, I'd like to remind everyone that statements in this earnings call which are not historical facts, may be forward-looking.

Our actual results may differ materially from these forward-looking statements. The risk factors that could cause these differences are detailed in our SEC reports. Safehold disclaims any intent or obligation to update these forward-looking statements, except as expressly required by law. With that, I'd like to turn it over to Chairman and CEO, Jay Sugarman. Jay?

Jay Sugarman (Chairman and CEO)

Thanks, Pearse. Thanks to everyone for joining us today. With the merger now behind us, the second quarter was an opportunity to begin focusing on the capital needs of our customers and begin building a deal pipeline in this higher rate environment. The market remains tougher than normal, with liquidity from banks still constrained, and higher rates and higher cap rates making transactions more difficult. We continue to look for ways to help our customers access our modern ground lease capital across all our product lines. With that short introduction, let's have Marcos Alvarado and Brett Asnas take us through the quarter in more detail. Marcos Alvarado?

Marcos Alvarado (President and Chief Investment Officer)

Thank you, Jay, good afternoon, everyone. Let's begin on slide 3. During the 2nd quarter, we started to see a slight uptick in new investments activity and portfolio growth. While overall, the real estate capital markets remain dislocated, with volumes far off the highs, we're beginning to see pockets where our ground lease is a constructive capital solution in this difficult environment, and we're encouraged by the momentum in our pipeline. We're also pleased to see positive developments broadly in the Fed's fight against inflation. While we'll continue to highlight the inflation capture in our lease structure, the value of our long-term liabilities and Caret, our stock price has been hit hard over the past 18 months as investors respond to near-term headwinds without regard to our long-term value components of our portfolio.

We believe Safehold could be a beneficiary at the end of this historic tightening cycle, and as we start to see stability in rates, we expect our customers will accelerate their delayed capital decisions. The overall portfolio remains steady, with significant amounts of subordinate leasehold debt and equity capital supporting our principal and income. The tenants on top of our assets continue to perform, and as of today, we're not engaged with our customers about any restructuring of our leases. The key credit metrics that we track are well within our target criteria, with a weighted average GLTV of 42% and rent coverage of 3.7 times. On the capital front, we ended the quarter with more than $800 million of liquidity, and in addition, have greater ability to invest capital through our previously announced $500 million joint venture, which we have started to deploy.

As a reminder, we own 55% of the venture with a leading sovereign wealth fund, and in addition to our share of the ground lease economics, we'll earn a management fee with the potential for additional promote upside. Slide 4 provides a snapshot of our portfolio growth for the quarter. During the quarter, we originated three new ground leases totaling $129 million. We funded $73 million during the quarter, with $61 million of that associated with new and existing ground lease commitments, and $12 million related to our 53% share of the Leasehold Loan Fund, which we acquired in the merger. The three new originations were all multifamily properties, with three new customers across three unique markets.

Of the $129 million, $39 million consisted of two transactions closed into our aforementioned venture, and the third deal, for $90 million, will be wholly owned by Safehold. These leases generate a 7.2% weighted average inflation-adjusted yield, or a 7.1% yield, assuming 0% inflation and no Caret value. The wholly owned investment was a pre-existing commitment to purchase a Ground Lease Plus deal on a 32-storey, 465-unit luxury apartment building in downtown Brooklyn. Safehold's purchase was contingent upon the sponsor reaching certain milestones, including obtaining leasehold construction financing, which closed in the 2Q and triggered our commitment. It was nice to see that product come full circle despite the financing headwinds.

The credit metrics associated with these three deals are in line with our targets, with a weighted average GLTV of 31% and ground rent coverage of 2.5 times. As rates and spreads have moved up, we have pushed pricing accordingly. We'll continue to examine pricing dynamics that work both for our customers and for our business and are pleased with the recent engagement in our pipeline. At the end of the quarter, our aggregate portfolio stood at approximately $6.3 billion.

The estimated value of the unrealized capital appreciation sitting above our ground leases was approximately $10.1 billion, representing 23 times growth over the last 6 years. In total, the UCA portfolio is comprised of approximately 34 million sq ft of institutional-quality commercial real estate, consisting of approximately 17,300 units of multifamily, 12.6 million sq ft of office, over 5,000 hotel keys, and 2 million sq ft of life science and other property types. With that, let me turn it over to Brett to go through the financials. Brett?

Brett Asnas (CFO)

Thank you, Marcos. Good afternoon, everyone. Continuing on slide 5, let me detail our quarterly earnings results. For the second quarter, revenue was $85.7 million, and net income was $22.1 million. Earnings per share was $0.35, both with or without one-time merger costs. Overall, the financials look similar to pre-merger SAFE, with a few differences I will highlight. First, I'll begin with the balance sheet changes, which now includes the $115 million term loan to Star Holdings, accounted for as a loan receivable and presented net of an approximately $2.3 million reserve. In the first quarter, we recorded an approximately $150 million goodwill asset, which represents the excess of purchase price over the fair value of the assets received and will be tested per GAAP rules moving forward.

The Ground Lease Plus and Leasehold Loan Fund interests are accounted for as equity method investments and had a balance of approximately $83 million at quarter end. The approximately $100 million trust preferred unsecured debt, assumed as part of the closing, sits within consolidated net debt. Moving to the income statement. Revenue for the quarter included approximately $7.2 million in management fees earned from Star Holdings, which is an offset to the way we discuss G&A, though included in other income in the GAAP income statement. As we previously disclosed, the contract is structured to pay Safehold $25 million in fees during year one, which will step down annually over the four-year term. In accordance with GAAP, we accrue income quarterly based on services provided, which for Q2 included setup work post-merger.

We anticipate a lower run rate based on our forecast and expect to recognize approximately $18 million over the next three quarters, which would approximate contractual cash we receive per the management agreement. We earned approximately $2.4 million of interest income on the Star Holdings term loan, which pays a fixed 8% cash coupon. Additionally, we saw a pickup within earnings from equity method investments related to the fund interests, which are generally higher yielding than our core ground leases and expected to be accretive to net income. Looking at expenses, all management fees and other expenses related to our previous management contract with iStar have been replaced with a standalone internalized cost structure. G&A, which includes items such as payroll, occupancy costs, and all overhead items, was approximately $11 million for Q2.

Stock-based compensation was approximately $8 million for Q2, which includes board grants, bonus accrual, and the four-year employee LTIP plans put in place at merger closing. In accordance with GAAP, the LTIP grants will grade vest, which means we have a more front-loaded expense rather than straight lining over the four-year vesting term. Taken together, we project that annual G&A, net of the management fee from Star Holdings, will be approximately $50 million on a run rate basis for the next few years. This year, it could end up a touch higher due to accruing for certain items in Q1 associated with the merger and full-year standalone items accrued for over three quarters instead of four, since the merger closed on the last day of Q1.

Similar to other borrowers, we have felt the effect of elevated short-term borrowing rates on our revolving credit line, which is the primary driver of the year-over-year decline in EPS. Early in the second quarter, we executed $500 million floating to fixed swaps, fixing SOFR to approximately 3%, which will mitigate much of the adverse near-term earnings effects stemming from the substantial Fed rate hikes that have occurred. On slide 6, we detail our portfolio's yields. On a GAAP basis, the portfolio generates a cash yield of 3.5% and an annualized yield of 5.2%, presuming a 0% inflationary environment for the length of our ground leases. It's important to point out the disconnect between economic returns and what we recognize for GAAP.

The majority of our portfolio consists of typical Safehold structured ground leases with contractual compounding cash flows and periodic CPI lookbacks. When we originate a new asset, what we book for earnings aligns with economic returns of the cash flows, given its IRR base. For certain lease structures, there is a significant difference between GAAP treatment and economics. This is an important topic that we want to explain further and be clear about moving forward. Approximately 17% of our assets have variable rent that can exceed today's current rent. For example, any legacy-style ground leases that we acquired with percentage rent, fair market value provisions, or CPI-linked escalators. When we underwrite those investments, we look closely at the lease structure and make a reasonable assumption on the key variable, such as CPI, to project the true economic yield on the asset.

GAAP does not allow assumptions on this variable go-forward component, no matter how conservative, and as a result, the 17% of the portfolio we have referenced is earning 3.0% for GAAP purposes, accounting for no expected income increases over the term of the lease, even though our underwriting expectation for these leases is closer to 6%. This disconnect is why the yields on the right side of the page are more pertinent, as they line up much closer with our view of economic reality. Inflation-adjusted yield, which is IRR-based and uses today's Federal Reserve long-term inflation expectation of 2.23%, produces a yield of 5.8%.

We are also tracking our illustrative Caret adjusted yield, which we introduced last quarter and believe is an effective way to demonstrate the impact of the potential value of the embedded capital appreciation in our portfolio. We use the 5.8% inflation-adjusted yield as the starting point for this metric and simply subtract Safehold's 82% ownership of Caret, using its latest $2 billion valuation from the current portfolio ground lease basis. This increases the inflation-adjusted yield to approximately 7.3%. Turning to slide 7, we show a geographic breakdown of our portfolio. This slide underscores the portfolio's diversification by location and underlying property type. We highlight our top 10 markets on the right, as we believe that our emphasis on originations in the top 30 MSAs is fundamental to our thesis that well-located, institutional-quality ground leases should benefit and appreciate in value over time.

Approximately 70% of gross book value is diversified across the 10 markets listed on the slide. The bottom section breaks down portfolio count and book value in further detail and highlights the progress made within the multifamily space, which has been the primary channel for new investments over the last few years and represents more than 50% of the portfolio by count. Lastly, on slide eight, we provide an overview on our capital structure. At the end of the second quarter, we had approximately $4.3 billion of debt, comprised of $1.5 billion of unsecured notes, $1.5 billion of non-recourse secured debt, $1 billion drawn on our unsecured revolver, and $272 million of our pro rata share of debt on ground leases, which we own in joint ventures.

Our weighted average debt maturity is approximately 23 years. We have no corporate maturity to due until 2026, which is our revolver. At quarter end, we had approximately $816 million of cash and credit facility availability. As previously mentioned, we have taken meaningful steps to offset interest rate fluctuation through hedges that are currently in the money. We have $500 million of swaps in place, with SOFR locked at approximately 3% for 5 years, which is presently in the money based on current market rates. We also have $400 million of 30-year treasury hedges with a weighted average rate of 3.47%, currently in a significant gain position, which will eventually be unwound and applied to long-term financing as we reenter the debt markets. We are levered 1.9x on a total debt-to-book equity basis.

The effective interest rate on permanent debt is 3.8%, which is a 135 basis point spread to the 5.2% GAAP annualized yield on our portfolio, which again includes 17% of the portfolio being booked at 3.0% GAAP annualized yield, with no credit given today to the future income that we described earlier. The portfolio's cash interest rate on permanent debt is 3.3%, which is a 15 basis point spread to the 3.5% annualized cash yield. We're on positive outlook at both Moody's and Fitch and have an active dialogue with both agencies. Overall, we believe that our existing capital structure is a valuable component of the company that has been underappreciated by the market.

We have a long-term laddered debt profile with 23 years of weighted average term that is significantly below market cost, with no near-term maturities. On a mark-to-market basis, similar to what our analysts describe, there's potentially $500 million-$1 billion of value in a sum of the parts analysis. We believe that these attractive attributes, particularly in a time of market uncertainty, should be viewed as an important asset by stakeholders when calculating Safehold's overall intrinsic value. To conclude, while it has been a very challenging year so far in terms of stock performance, we've been encouraged by macro trends and thawing real estate markets and remain focused on getting back to business, expanding our leadership position in the ground lease industry. With that, I'll turn it back to Jay.

Jay Sugarman (Chairman and CEO)

Thanks for that detail, Brett. What's striking to me is, as we enter this next phase of growth, is really how early we still are in the development of the modern ground lease industry. There's still a lot of work to do to accelerate adoption among customers and investors, but ground leases have certainly begun to carve out a place in the mainstream real estate markets, and we look forward to helping push that adoption even faster. Operator, with that, why don't we go ahead and open it up for questions?

Operator (participant)

Absolutely. Thank you. To ask a question, please press star one at this time. We will take as many questions as time permits. Once again, please press star one to ask a question. We will pause a moment to assemble the roster. The first question is from Nathan Crossett with BNP Paribas. Please proceed.

Nathan Crossett (Real Estate Equity Research)

Hey, thank you. Good evening. It's nice to see activity picking up a bit. Was just curious if you could speak to, you know, what does the pipeline look like right now? Have you closed anything so far in 3Q? Just on some sectors, it sounds like it was all multifamily this quarter. What sectors are in the pipeline? Are there any other areas you're looking at? I think, and, Brett , you may have mentioned subsidized housing. Just curious to get your comments there.

Marcos Alvarado (President and Chief Investment Officer)

Hey, Nate. I think we, we've been pretty encouraged over the last six weeks or so. There's a handful of transactions that are in the closing process. They're all in the housing space, so a mix of multifamily and, and student housing. We did get our first affordable deal under LOI as well. We're encouraged by the recent momentum. As I look kind of at the next leg of the pipeline, which isn't signed up today, it is predominantly housing as well, so mostly multifamily, and there is one hospitality asset. There, there seems to be a, a thawing in some of these asset classes. Student housing, as, as an example, is, you know, undersupplied.

I think there's some conviction from owners about rent growth that they can underwrite, and our capital solution is accretive as they're, they're, you know, recapitalizing transactions or pursuing new acquisitions.

Nathan Crossett (Real Estate Equity Research)

Okay, that's helpful. Then just the pricing on what's in the pipeline, is it similar to that 7.2% that you guys quoted this quarter, or how should we think about that?

Marcos Alvarado (President and Chief Investment Officer)

Yeah, I would say the 7.2%, we're, we're really excited about that overall yield. I think we did better this quarter than, I would say, expected. Our, our target pricing today is still sort of in that 6.5% range. I would say the pipeline sort of sits between the 6.5% and the 7.2%.

Nathan Crossett (Real Estate Equity Research)

Okay, thank you. Just one on the balance sheet, just on the revolver. You know, how should we be thinking about when you may look to term that out? Like, how long do the current hedges last? I think you said the swaps are good for 5 years. How should we think about that, and then maybe where you could do 30-year money today?

Jay Sugarman (Chairman and CEO)

Hey, bro, why don't you talk about just in, in terms of debt, what you're feeling?

Marcos Alvarado (President and Chief Investment Officer)

Absolutely. Yeah, as you know, Nate, the line has been drawn over the course of, you know, the merger discussions. Since the merger's closed, it's nice to get back out on the road and educate folks. I think what we're encouraged by is meeting with a lot of new investors. That's both on the equity and debt side. As this, you know, ground lease market continues to evolve and open up, there are definitely a lot more interested parties. I think, you know, when we look at our leverage level and think about our rating, and think about capital allocation, we're looking across the board at all of those opportunities on the equity side and debt side.

We'll continue to try to figure out what the best cost of capital in that moment is, as well as what can help us kind of get to that next lily pad. That's, that's, I would say, the goal from our end. The last piece is on the hedging, which I think is an important one that, you know, we, we're trying to make clearer. We put in our deck this quarter as well, which is, you know, half of the line is already fixed. The other half, we have 30-year hedges that are today, you know, 60 basis points plus in the money.

That is a significant gain that will that gain will be amortized over the life of any debt instrument that we that we do respective of, if, if it's a 10-year deal, a 30-year deal, if it's, you know, different structures as we've talked about in the past. We're continuing to try to be thoughtful about how to allocate capital and term out those borrowings.

Nathan Crossett (Real Estate Equity Research)

Okay, thank you. That's it.

Operator (participant)

The next question is from Haendel St. Juste with Mizuho. Please proceed.

Haendel St. Juste (Managing Director and Senior Equity Research Analyst)

Hey, good evening. First question is on, I guess, the investments in the quarter. Can you guys, I guess, discuss the process of how the new investments are allocated on a wholly owned versus via your recent JV? It looks like most of the activity was on balance sheet instead of JV. I think we were under the impression that the first $500 million or so would likely be through the JV, given your h- your, your higher cost of capital here. Maybe some, some elaboration on that, please.

Marcos Alvarado (President and Chief Investment Officer)

There was a pre-existing commitment through our GL Plus fund. That predated the execution of the venture. That was a relatively large transaction for the quarter, it was $90 million. That's why it was not closed in the venture. The way we look at the venture going forward is it will most likely close all the transactions until we fill that $500 million bucket. you know, I would say if I'm forecasting, there may be some smaller transactions where friction costs for setting up, you know, individual REITs within, within the fund may fall out. The way you should think about it is going forward now, the next $500 million will go in the venture.

Haendel St. Juste (Managing Director and Senior Equity Research Analyst)

Thanks for that. Remind us, I guess, regarding the JV, does your partner have veto rights? I guess I'm curious if they're only interested in multifamily here and if there's any asset classes that they've, they've redlined.

Marcos Alvarado (President and Chief Investment Officer)

Yeah, it, it-- so it's a collaborative process. They, they do have, you know, discretion over the, over the capital. We both do, obviously. It's a collaborative process as we start to build our pipeline. I think most of the product we're seeing is in the residential space. We have shown them a few deals that ultimately didn't get to the finish line that were in other asset classes, and there-- as I mentioned, there's something in the hospitality space that they're, they're supportive of as well. We're not just gonna do residential, we'll do what, you know, the market sort of, gives us, and that happens to be a fair amount of resi, which we're excited about.

Operator (participant)

Okay, the next question is from Anthony Paolone with JP Morgan. Please proceed.

Anthony Paolone (Senior Analyst)

Hi. Yeah, thanks. First, just a couple clarifying ones. I just want to make sure I understand. In terms of Safehold's cash out the door in 2Q, is that the $73 million, or does that include also some JV partner money?

Marcos Alvarado (President and Chief Investment Officer)

Get the exact number.

Jay Sugarman (Chairman and CEO)

73 is us.

Marcos Alvarado (President and Chief Investment Officer)

73 is us, and that includes $12 million from the Leasehold Loan Fund. 61 in ground leases for our share and $12 million in the Leasehold Loan Fund.

Anthony Paolone (Senior Analyst)

Okay. Then in the 129, the new sort of commitments, I guess some of that was funded and is in the 73 already. In that 129, your share of that is the 112. I'm just trying to reconcile what you committed, what you spent at your share.

Marcos Alvarado (President and Chief Investment Officer)

You got it. 112 is the number.

Anthony Paolone (Senior Analyst)

Okay, got it. What's kind of unspent but committed right now at Safehold's share? Just to kind of understand, like, what could go out, you know, the rest of the year or just, you know, as baseline.

Marcos Alvarado (President and Chief Investment Officer)

On a gross basis, it is approximately $460 million, so we'd be 55% of that number.

Anthony Paolone (Senior Analyst)

55% of the 460. Okay.

Marcos Alvarado (President and Chief Investment Officer)

We'll go back to it.

Anthony Paolone (Senior Analyst)

Yeah, just you talked about the pipeline picking up. Just, I mean, what do you think the next few quarters could hold in terms of, you know, pace? Like, do you think the, you know, the 129 gross is doable from what you could tell, or are things still spotty?

Marcos Alvarado (President and Chief Investment Officer)

You know, I, I, I would say things are spotty, right? These, these markets are extremely volatile. If you give me a snapshot today, yes, I do think the 129 is doable. As we've seen over the past year, you can wake up the next morning and things dramatically change. I don't want to put a number out there from a quarter-to-quarter basis, but we're very encouraged by the, the recent momentum.

Anthony Paolone (Senior Analyst)

Okay. Then just one last one on the financials. The $6.8 million in JV income in the quarter, I mean, you, you talked about, like, why that's higher, but is that, like, a good run rate, or is it just a big move up given everything that's happened? Just want to try to understand if there's anything in there.

Brett Asnas (CFO)

Yeah, that's probably a good run rate, Tony. If you recall, right, at, at, at merger closing, we acquired those GL Plus. There's our existing unconsolidated JV assets that we've done in the past, but now, the funds go through this line item as well. It feels like that's probably a, a decent run rate. There were some initial costs in there, so maybe, maybe a touch higher going forward, but that's probably a good run rate.

Anthony Paolone (Senior Analyst)

Okay. Yeah, thank you.

Operator (participant)

The next question is from Harsh Hemnani with Green Street. Please proceed.

Harsh Hemnani (Senior Analyst, Debt Research)

Thank you. Of course, this 7.1 is, is a great lead, and it's nice to see their transaction market open back up. I think you mentioned you saw a couple hospitality deals in there. In that range that you sort of provided, 6.5, to call it 7.1-7.2, would it be fair to say that hospitality shakes out on the higher end of that range? You know, any, any guidance that you could give us there? Have you seen any office type deals on the market? If you were pricing some of those, where would you be comfortable acquiring an office ground lease today?

Marcos Alvarado (President and Chief Investment Officer)

Hey, Harsh. Yes, on the hotel deals in our pipeline, they are at the wider end of the range, so closer to 7%. We've seen a fair amount of office, given the capital constraints, and to date, nothing has sort of fit our box. You know, I would, I would say it's not an issue with just our proceeds level. I think a lot of those assets that we've seen, have a fair amount of existing leverage, and us, as a ground lease solution in isolation, doesn't solve their problem. We're continuing to monitor. We'd like to own some of the, the office assets that we see in our pipeline, but we're being very selective.

Harsh Hemnani (Senior Analyst, Debt Research)

Okay. That's helpful. You know, spending two minutes on Caret, I guess. There, there have been two private rounds done. It seems like the first-round investors wanted to exercise that option to reinvest in the second round. Have you gotten any more inbounds from these investors as to interest in, in Caret? Or do, do you think there'll be more sort of private rounds in the near term? Any conversations around that would be helpful.

Jay Sugarman (Chairman and CEO)

Yeah, no, I think we've been more focused on the, the pipeline at this point, Harsh. I, I would say, we've, we've had, you know, reverse inquiry on Caret, which has been, you know, right along the lines we had hoped, which is the kind of long-term, you know, wealth-creating, invest- investment seekers. That continues to be something we will push once we've rebuilt the pipeline and can show that kind of growth again. I think the concept of Caret is getting more and more familiar, which is, is what we hoped coming out of the merger.

Harsh Hemnani (Senior Analyst, Debt Research)

Okay. Thank you.

Operator (participant)

Okay, up next, we have Ki Bin Kim with Truist. Please proceed, Ki.

Ki Bin Kim (VP and Head of Investor Relations)

Thank you. Quick question on the originations this quarter, the 7.2% yield, inflation-adjusted. Is 7.1 the GAAP yield that you're booking the, the deals at?

Marcos Alvarado (President and Chief Investment Officer)

Yes, that's correct.

Ki Bin Kim (VP and Head of Investor Relations)

Oh, okay. I would have thought there would have been a bigger gap between the two numbers.

Marcos Alvarado (President and Chief Investment Officer)

Yeah, the, there's a little bit of rounding in that 7.1 and that 7.2. The long-term Fed assumption from quarter to quarter went down a little bit, so it's at 2.23%, so there's not that much lift up in the inflation-adjusted yield.

Ki Bin Kim (VP and Head of Investor Relations)

Okay. can you remind us, where your fixed charge coverage ratio is today, you know, per your covenant calculations, and the, the unsecured asset versus unsecured debt, where that is today versus the covenants?

Jay Sugarman (Chairman and CEO)

Sure. From a unencumbered asset to unsecured debt coverage standpoint, we're a touch under 1.5 times. Obviously, as, as you know, as the numerator and denominator grow and we look to equitize, as well as raise debt in the future, that cushion will grow. From a FCCR standpoint, we're in the mid 1.2s, and that's from an EBITDA cushion standpoint, it's about $15 million of EBITDA cushion, which again, is, you know, it's, it's declined here over the past quarters, as we equitize and look to the long-term debt markets, that will go back up as well. That will usually sit in a run rate of, call it, 1.3-1.4 times, it's super, super stable.

As you know, we also hedged some of our revolving line borrowings this past quarter. I'd say on a FCCR, 1.3-1.4 would be our, you know, run rate of where we typically are. From a UA/UD perspective, I'd call it 1.5-1.6, staying within both of those corridors.

Ki Bin Kim (VP and Head of Investor Relations)

Okay, so given, given those, where those covenants are today-- not the covenants, I mean, where you are in terms of FCCR, and the 1.9 times, you know, debt to equity, it doesn't seem like there's a lot of cushion left on the equity side to do more deals. Also, I'm not sure exactly how much cash flow you're retaining each quarter. Just high level, how are you thinking about equity needs over the next year or so? I know your stock price isn't exactly where it needs to be or where you want it to be, but, I guess what are the avenues that how you would address the equity?

Jay Sugarman (Chairman and CEO)

Sure, Ki Bin, I guess the things we've said in the past are, you know, it's typically tied to our pipeline and what we see in the future. We always wanna have sufficient liquidity and buying power to, you know, be able to be aggressive in the markets when we wanna be. You've seen us lean in on third-party capital when it makes sense. That's certainly been part of the equation for us. We'll look at the mix between primary and third-party capital and make sure we're out ahead of the game. That's how we've been thinking about it over the last 12 months. Certainly, the market's finally beginning to break a little bit. Yeah, we've got we've got a very large partner who has been, you know, very helpful on the third-party capital side.

Ki Bin Kim (VP and Head of Investor Relations)

You know, on your line of credit, you have about $802 million of capacity. I'm curious, can you actually, from a practical standpoint, use all that, or would that actually press you up against the governance?

Jay Sugarman (Chairman and CEO)

Yeah, I-- we've got, we've got headroom still. Yeah, we're being cognizant. Markets are finally, you know, at least on the deal side, you know, starting to present us with the kind of opportunities we think are accretive, and, you know, we'll start looking at, at different choices here and get the mix right. As Brett said, you know, we've got a debt plan, we've got an equity plan over the next 12 months that will keep us, you know, out ahead of the capital needs we see.

Ki Bin Kim (VP and Head of Investor Relations)

Okay, thank you.

Marcos Alvarado (President and Chief Investment Officer)

The next question is from Matthew Howlett with B. Riley. Please proceed, Matthew.

Matthew Howlett (Equity Research Analyst)

Yeah, thanks. Thanks for taking my question. Just on, on the UCA went up, obviously, by the, by the amount of your originations. Any whether there's any movement in between, you know, and the appraisals you do on the, the properties, any significant changes in the quarter?

Jay Sugarman (Chairman and CEO)

Yeah, look, we're, we're in that part of the cycle where appraisers are starting to catch up to some of the cap rate expansion. Some of the fundamentals, obviously, in, in office, in particular, are starting to bleed. We've seen a degradation in the appraisals on a number of the assets. But, you know, that is, you know, meant to be a, a long-term indication of value. Over time, we, we expect that stuff to stabilize out, but right now we're certainly in, in, you know, the downward slope. Some of the multifamily has actually done better than expected.

It's not all a one-way story, but I think the biggest piece of the puzzle is obviously turning back on the origination machine, and starting to add in that external growth, to offset whatever weakness there is on just sort of the fundamental appraisal, cap rate catch-up that we're seeing.

Matthew Howlett (Equity Research Analyst)

Yeah, yeah, the GLTV was, was, was stable at 42%. You were clear that there's no property that you're in discussion with in terms of any restructuring. I mean, we see headlines, obviously, every day on the office market in major cities. What you're saying is, your portfolio, you're not seeing anything that would suggest that, that, that there could be something on the horizon?

Marcos Alvarado (President and Chief Investment Officer)

Yeah, today, you know, that, that's an accurate statement. You know, certainly offices is obviously under pressure, and we're engaged with our, with, with our tenants where there is, you know, rollover or potentially some future cash flow issues. You know, today, there is no conversation going on.

Matthew Howlett (Equity Research Analyst)

Gotcha. Okay. Then, Jay, talk about the you talked about it, you know, with the, the bank, the new bank lending environment. They're obviously pulling back from commercial market. Talk about the interplay between, you know, your your ground lease solution and the banks. If they do, they are pulling back. Are we talking about they're gonna come in on LTVs or not do certain product types, and you're gonna be the solution for the real estate owners to I mean, you could offer a product that could, could be the solution for them to, to get the acquired leveraging. I mean, just talk a little bit about the interplay between the banks pulling back and your ground, and your modern ground lease.

Jay Sugarman (Chairman and CEO)

Yeah, it's, it's, it's a little bit of good news, bad news in terms of, you know, banks have been one of the sources of capital for the leasehold side of our business. You know, we, we typically pair up with a third-party capital source. Sometimes it's banks, sometimes it's CMBS, sometimes it's a, you know, money center bank, a regional bank. We've probably worked with, what, Brett? 50, 60 leasehold lenders at this point. There are still pockets of capital. Certainly, the agencies in the multifamily space are still there. It definitely constrains our ability to help our customers put their capital stack together when the leasehold lending market, you know, is pulling back. That's not great news. The, you know, positive side of that is, you know, capital is more valuable than ever.

Long-term, low-cost, capital from a ground lease helps stabilize capital structures and make them more resilient. We definitely think, we are part of the solution to a more volatile marketplace, but we do need a functioning, financing market, to be at our best. A pullback is fine. A, you know, you know, complete, you know, red line of commercial real estate would not be good.

Matthew Howlett (Equity Research Analyst)

Gotcha. Thanks for taking my questions, Jay.

Operator (participant)

Mr. Hoffmann, we have no further questions in queue.

Marcos Alvarado (President and Chief Investment Officer)

Thanks. If you should have additional questions on today's release, please feel free to contact me directly. John, would you mind giving the conference call replay instructions once more?

Operator (participant)

Absolutely. There will be a replay of this conference call beginning at 8:00 P.M. Eastern Time today. The dial-in for the replay is 877-481-4010, with the confirmation code of 48759. This concludes today's conference. You may disconnect your lines at this time. Thank you, and