Smith Douglas Homes - Earnings Call - Q4 2024

Executive Summary

• Q4 2024 delivered record closings and revenue: 836 closings (+28% YoY) and $287.5M revenue (+32% YoY), with home closing gross margin of 25.5% and diluted EPS of $0.46.
• Management exceeded prior Q4 guidance on closings and met margin/ASP targets; full-year 2024 closings of 2,867 also beat prior guidance midpoints, with home closing gross margin 26.2%.
• Near-term margin pressure persists from affordability-driven incentives and higher lot costs (200–300 bps erosion); Q1 2025 gross margin guided to 23.25–23.75% with closings 625–675 and ASP $330–$335K.
• Estimates: S&P Global consensus for Q4 2024 EPS/revenue was unavailable due to a provider data-access limit; comparisons to Wall Street estimates are not included.
• Stock-relevant narrative: evidence of scale and operational efficiency (cycle times ~55 days; 96% unstarted lots under option), strong balance sheet (net debt-to-net book capitalization negative 5%) supporting expansion, offset by incentive-driven margin headwinds and lot cost inflation.

What Went Well and What Went Wrong

What Went Well

• Record quarterly closings and revenue; “well above our stated guidance” with Q4 pretax income of $30M; home closing gross margin in-line at 25.5%.
• Operational efficiency: cycle times ~55 working days, with R-team philosophy adoption improving construction flow; backlog ASP $340K and expected backlog margin ~24%.
• Balance sheet strength: ~$22M cash, no revolver borrowings, debt-to-book capitalization 0.8%, net debt-to-net book capitalization −5%.

What Went Wrong

• Margin pressure from incentives and lot costs; incentives increased in Q4 and into Q1 2025; lot cost inflation eroding 200–300 bps of margins.
• Demand variability tied to interest rates (30-year mortgage peaked over 7% in January), driving higher incentives and cautious buyers; SG&A elevated in Q4 from bonus accruals (14.9%).
• Backlog down year-over-year (homes −24%; contract value −24%); cancellation rate rose to 14.8% in Q4 (vs 14.0% prior year).

Transcript

Operator (participant)

Hello and thank you for standing by. My name is Regina and I will be your conference operator today. At this time I would like to welcome everyone to the Smith Douglas Homes fourth quarter 2025 earnings conference call and webcast. All lines have been placed on mute to prevent any background noise. After the speaker's remarks, there will be a question and answer session. If you would like to ask a question during this time, simply press Star then the number one on your telephone keypad. To withdraw your question, press Star one. Again, we kindly ask that you please limit your questions to one and one follow up. I would now like to turn the conference over to Joe Thomas, Senior Vice President, Accounting and Finance. Please go ahead.

Joseph Thomas (SVP, Accounting and Finance)

Good morning and welcome to the earnings conference call for Smith Douglas Homes. We issued a press release this morning outlining our results for the fourth quarter of 2024, which we will discuss on today's call and which can be found on our website at investors.smithdouglas.com or by selecting the Investor Relations link at the bottom of our homepage. Please note this call will be simultaneously webcast on the Investor Relations section of our website. Before the call begins, I would like to remind everyone that certain statements made on this call which are not historical facts, including statements concerning future financial and operating goals, outlook, performance, and ability to gain market share, including in uncertain environments, are forward-looking statements. Actual results could differ materially from such statements due to known and unknown risks, uncertainties, and important factors as detailed in the company's SEC filings.

Except as required by law, the company undertakes no duty to update these forward looking statements. Additionally, reconciliations of non-GAAP financial measures discussed on this call to the most comparable GAAP measures can be found in our press release located on our website and in our SEC filings. Hosting the call this morning are Greg Bennett, the company's CEO and Vice Chairman, and Russ Devendorf, our Executive Vice President and CFO. I'd now like to turn the call over to Greg.

Greg Bennett (Vice Chairman and CEO)

Thanks Joe. Good morning to everyone joining us on today's call as we go over results for the fourth quarter of 2024 and provide some insight into the state of our home building operations for the first few months of 2025. Smith Douglas Homes reported pre-tax income of $30 million in the fourth quarter of 2024, capping off a very profitable year for a company in which we generated nearly $117 million in pre-tax income. The 836 homes we delivered in the quarter were well above our stated guidance range and represent a quarterly record for our company. For the full year, Smith Douglas delivered 2,867 homes. Our gross margins for the quarter came in as expected at 25.5%, which was the midpoint of our guidance. For the full year, gross margins on home closings averaged 26.2%.

The combination of strong delivery growth, healthy margins and quick inventory turns resulted in an adjusted return on equity of 29% for 2024, well above the industry average for publicly traded home builders. Overall, we're extremely pleased with our performance in 2024 and look forward to building on successes we've achieved during the year. During the fourth quarter we generated 569 net new orders similar to last quarter. Price incentives and closing cost support were an important sales tool in all our communities. While this has been an effective way to address affordability issues, it has had a negative impact on our margins. We made further progress on improving the construction efficiency in the fourth quarter.

Cycle times coming in approximately 55 working days excluding our Houston division, our trade partners and suppliers continue to buy into the Arten philosophy, which streamlines the construction process and provides a level of accountability that leads to better cycle times. The adoption of the Arten system in Houston continues progress. We expect to see real improvement to their operating efficiency in the coming quarters. Our ability to turn inventory quickly is a key component of our homebuilding strategy and we remain committed to making incremental improvements across our footprint. We ended the year with 19,522 controlled lots. Of our unstarted controlled lots, 96% were controlled via option agreement, consistent with our asset light strategies. This land-light model allows us to control a significant number of lots in a capital efficient manner while offloading much of our risk associated with owning the developing land.

As we look ahead to 2025 and move into the heart of the spring selling season, there are microeconomic and political uncertainties, particularly around interest rates and tariffs, that may cause potential headwinds for the business. Anticipated relief in mortgage rates after the Fed started cutting in the back half of 2024 never materialized, and in fact rates increased throughout the fourth quarter of 2024 and into January where the average 30-year mortgage reached a peak of over 7%. As several peers have also reported, January sales started off a bit slow compared to expectations before picking up through February and early March. Despite seeing some stabilization in inflation, affordability remains a significant challenge for our buyers. Additionally, the lock-in effect, where homeowners are reluctant to sell due to their low mortgage rates, is keeping housing inventory near historic lows and contributing to home prices remaining higher.

While there might be some near term headwinds and additional pressure on margins longer term, we continue to remain optimistic about the outlook for our industry and especially Smith Douglas. We believe our manufacturing approach to home building, operational efficiency and land-light strategy will serve us well in any environment. Our balance sheet remains in excellent shape. We have a real opportunity to gain market share as we expand our operations throughout the Southeast. Before I turn the call over to Russ, I want to thank all of our team members for their contributions to a remarkable year for our company. Smith Douglas has come a long way since we started operating out of Atlanta 17 years ago.

Our significant expansion throughout the Southeast and Texas over the years and our highly successful IPO last year is all due to the hard work and commitment of more than 450 team members. We truly appreciate all of you and now turn it over to Russ.

Russ Devendorf (EVP and CFO)

Thanks Greg. I'm going to highlight some of our results for the fourth quarter and full year and then conclude my remarks with our outlook for the first quarter. We finished the fourth quarter with $287 million of revenue, a 32% increase over the year ago period on 836 closings for an average sales price on closed homes of $344,000. Our gross margin was 25.5% and SG&A expense was 14.9% of revenue. Pre-tax income was $30 million with net income of $28.8 million for the quarter. Given the nature of our UP-C organizational structure, our reported net income reflects an effective tax rate of 4.2%. On the face of our income statement, this income tax expense is primarily attributable to income related to the approximate 17.3% economic ownership of our public shareholders that is held by Smith Douglas Homes and Smith Douglas Holdings LLC.

Our adjusted net income, which is a non-GAAP measure that we believe is useful in providing a comparison to more traditional C corporations, is $22.6 million for the quarter. Adjusted net income assumes a 24.6% blended federal and state effective tax rate as if we had 100% public ownership operating as a subchapter C corporation. We believe adjusted net income is a useful metric because it allows management and investors to evaluate our results more effectively to industry peers that may have a more traditional tax and organizational structure. You can find more information about our structure and income taxes in the footnotes of our financial statements. For the full year 2024, we closed a record 2,867 homes with corresponding revenue of $975 million, a 25% and 28% increase respectively over prior year.

Our gross margin was 26.2% for the full year compared to 28.3% in 2023, primarily driven by an increase in our average lot cost which was 24.4% of revenue versus 21.3% in 2023. Discounts and closing costs were 3.6% compared to 3.4% last year. Our SG&A expense was just under 14% of revenue including internal and external sales commissions which were 4% of revenue compared to 3.6% in 2023. Pre-tax income was $116.9 million with net income of $111.8 million for the year and our adjusted net income as previously described was $88.1 million. We were operating out of 78 active selling communities at the end of the year versus 69 at the end of 2023. We finished the year with 694 homes in backlog with an average selling price of $340,000 and an expected gross margin on those homes of just under 24%.

Looking at our balance sheet, we ended the quarter with approximately $22 million of cash and no borrowings under our $250 million revolving credit facility and $402 million of total members and stockholders equity. Our debt to book capitalization was 0.8% and our net debt to net book capitalization was negative 5%. We had approximately $220 million available on our unsecured credit facility and are well positioned to execute on our growth strategy. As Greg previously mentioned before I speak to our guidance for the first quarter, I'll provide a little more color on what we are seeing through the first couple of months this year. As Greg mentioned, sales started a bit slow in January but picked up in February.

Our sales pace per community trended higher at 2.4 and 3.3 sales in January and February respectively, compared to 3.4 sales per community through the first two months of 2024. Additionally, we have seen an increase in the closing costs and incentives we offered versus this time last year to the tune of about 75 basis points on a relatively flat average sales price. That said, for the first quarter of 2025, we currently anticipate home closings to finish between 625 and 675 homes, an approximate 15% increase over 2024 at the midpoint with an average sales price between $330,000 and $335,000 and gross margin in the range of 23.25%-23.75%. For the full year we expect closings to be between 3,000 and 3,200 homes which is in the range we previously stated on our last call.

We believe the primary risk to our projections are around our ability to maintain sales pace and bring our new communities and lots online. Macroeconomic factors and uncertainty around jobs, tariffs, inflation and interest rates could also have unforeseen impacts to our numbers. With that, I'd like to turn the call over to the operator for instructions on Q&A.

Operator (participant)

At this time. If you'd like to ask a question, press star followed by the number one on your telephone keypad. We kindly ask that you please limit your questions to 1 and 1 follow up. Our first question will come from the line of Michael Rehault with JP Morgan. Please go ahead.

Andrew Azzi (Equity Research)

Hi everyone, this is Andrew Azzi on for Mike. Thank you for taking my questions. Just maybe I appreciate that guidance. I just wanted to maybe dial into. I believe I heard you say the backlog gross margins are to tune up 24% and 1Q is a little bit below that. If you could bucket out some of. The, you know, dynamics there, that would be very helpful.

Russ Devendorf (EVP and CFO)

Yeah, so backlog margin, you heard correctly, it's about 24%. A lot of that is obviously sales that were made in Q4. Q4 was definitely, we saw more incentives pick up, you know, where Greg had mentioned, you know, it's an affordability thing. Interest rates really even with the Fed cutting kind of moved against us and so we were taking more incentives to try and keep pace. That's reflective in backlog. When I look out actually a little bit further, you know, beyond what we're seeing for, you know, what's closing in the first couple of months in terms of our backlog, it looks like it's creeping up a little bit. So you're actually seeing it trend a little bit up. When I look at kind of our backlog aging through, through kind of mid year.

We're hopeful again sales have picked up in February, but you know, look, incentives are still being used to drive volume. It's tough that that's where we see the biggest risk. Right. This year is going to be mostly in margin. You know, people are showing up into the sales centers. There's definitely demand, but it's an affordability game.

Andrew Azzi (Equity Research)

Thanks, Russ. Maybe secondly on the land side, is there some way to, some framework for kind of lot cost inflation for you guys that you are thinking of currently or that would be very helpful.

Russ Devendorf (EVP and CFO)

Yeah, that, that's, that's really, you know, outside of incentives. Right. And because we're seeing kind of flat ASP year over year. So you got incentives that are, that are impacting margins. It's, it's lot cost. Right. And we've talked about that in the past. I'd say it's, you know, it could be, you know, 200-300 basis points of margin is eroding because of our lot cost rolling through there. So land is still challenging, it's competitive, and that's where we see the biggest challenge. Our vertical costs have actually been in check. Now with kind of what we're seeing with tariffs and the new administration and a lot of uncertainty, we are seeing some of our subcontractors reach out and, you know, look at surcharges or, you know, possible increases. There's still, still a lot of uncertainty.

There's, we don't have a real clear picture yet on how that might impact us the rest of the year.

Andrew Azzi (Equity Research)

Thank you, Russ. I'll pass it on.

Russ Devendorf (EVP and CFO)

Thanks.

Operator (participant)

Our next question comes from the line of Sam Reid with Wells Fargo. Please go ahead.

Sam Reid (Wells Fargo)

Awesome, thanks. Actually wanted to piggyback off that last question. Just a comment on lot cost eroding 200-300 basis points of margin. I mean, is that mostly just weighted to 2025 or is there a risk that, that erosion kind of persist into 2026 and beyond? Just looking for some context there, given the visibility, having your out your lot pipeline.

Russ Devendorf (EVP and CFO)

Yeah, I don't see it. I see it kind of leveling off, you know, based on where our lot costs are. But certainly as we've been, you know, buying contracting land over the last couple of years, it's certainly increased, but I do think it's leveled off a bit when you, if you kind of think about, you know, 2026 and beyond. Yeah, we really haven't, we haven't taken a deep dive into it. Just sitting here today, I'd say you're not going to see the kind of, you know, inflation that you're seeing in the lot costs now. I mean, it's taken a pretty big, pretty big bump and I think you kind of see that leveling off a bit as you look towards the outer years.

Sam Reid (Wells Fargo)

Awesome. Thanks, Russ. One follow up. You know, just wanted to touch on community count, growth and cadence throughout the year. You know, I know obviously, you know, there's a lot of moving pieces when it comes to community count, but could you just give us some guideposts in terms of how we should think about modeling that over the course of 2025? Obviously it does have implications on start pace or pace, et cetera, et cetera.

Russ Devendorf (EVP and CFO)

Yeah, it should be, it should be pretty ratable increase throughout the year. We were just looking at that last week. You know, we can see community count growing, you know, low single digits, you know, towards kind of 90 by the end of the year up from, what were we, 78. I’d say it’s going to be kind of a ratable increase throughout the year.

Sam Reid (Wells Fargo)

As I'll be, I'll pass it on. Thanks.

Russ Devendorf (EVP and CFO)

Thanks.

Operator (participant)

Our next question comes from the line of Trevor Allinson with Wolf Research. Please go ahead.

Trevor Ellenson (Analyst)

Hi, good morning. Thank you for taking my questions. Wanted to follow up on gross margin. Previously you had talked about 2025 perhaps being in the 25% range, give or take starting below that here in the first quarter. I know you've got some land inflation that'll likely continue to work through in 2025. Can you talk about what the biggest difference is now versus maybe a quarter ago when you were talking about 2025 gross margin perhaps being in that 25% range?

Russ Devendorf (EVP and CFO)

Yeah, it's really, it's the market. I think when we had our call looking at where we saw rates had started coming down, the Fed was cutting and then Q4 you saw rates start to increase. We've definitely had a, we had a bigger use of incentives in Q4 and certainly at the beginning of this year, you know, rates peaked, the average 30 year peak in January starting to come down a little bit. When you look year over year, I think the rates are almost flat. That's really had an impact for sure on where we see margins going. As you know, you know our business model, we're very focused on kind of manufacturing, you know, it's a pace over price game.

You know, to steal a line from Lennar, that is kind of our buffer in terms of getting the pace, is that gross margin. We have had to use more incentives to push pace. Yeah, that makes sense.

Andrew Azzi (Equity Research)

Second question on SG&A, closing for really good in the quarter but SG&A still kind of came in towards the top, higher end of thinking about leverage on SG&A. As we move into 2025, appreciating you guys have spent a lot on growth already, how do you think about levering that?

Russ Devendorf (EVP and CFO)

Yeah, SG&A was elevated in Q4. We actually, we over closed from our guidance and then we hit, you know, a lot of our operational metrics that bonuses are based on and so we probably had over 100 basis points of SG&A, just an additional bonus accrual that, you know, if we knew we were going to hit the numbers like we did for the year, would have been accrued, you know, more evenly throughout the year. That 14.9 would have been probably just south of 14 if we had taken those accruals throughout the year. That was a big part of it. Yeah, we would expect ourselves to get, you know, some good SG&A leverage as we, you know, continue to grow the top line. We've got, you know, the team in place.

You know, from a back office perspective. You know we've got, we're pretty set from that standpoint, you know as a public company. So we would expect that SG&A number to continue to trend down below 14. You know, our goal would be, you know, certainly, you know, to improve that year over year.

Trevor Ellenson (Analyst)

Thank you for all the color. Good luck moving forward.

Greg Bennett (Vice Chairman and CEO)

Sure.

Operator (participant)

Our next question comes from the line of Mike Dahl with RBC Capital Markets. Please go ahead.

Mike Dahl (Managing Director, Equity Research)

Hey guys, good morning. You've actually got Steven Mia on for Mike this morning. I wanted to ask about the market assumptions and kind of the outlook you have embedded within the full year guide and you know, whether or not you have any improvement baked in there. If it's kind of flashing here, just kind of your thoughts on how you think about that and making the outlook. Thanks.

Russ Devendorf (EVP and CFO)

Yeah, we, we've got the, we've got the communities in place, you know to hit our 3,000-3,200 guide on closings. You know a lot of it's going to depend, you know again February picked up from a sales pace perspective. We're, we're seeing you know, March has, you know, been pretty consistent with February. There, there's, there's definitely, you know, still a lot of uncertainty going into the, into the balance of the year. Most of that we feel is, is around margins. You know, we definitely think, you know, people are showing up to the sales, sales centers, traffic has been pretty good. It really for us I think it's just a matter of finding that right price.

Mike Dahl (Managing Director, Equity Research)

Right.

Russ Devendorf (EVP and CFO)

It's an affordability game, as I mentioned. The biggest risk is certainly on the margin side. I think we can get volume, but the big question is at what margin, what price is it going to come? That remains to be seen. There is a lot, like I just mentioned before, there is a lot relative to vertical construction costs because of what's happening with tariffs and how that's going to impact us. There is just a lot of uncertainty there. We feel, sitting here today, we feel pretty good about gaining volume again, barring some sort of major recession or a big shift in employment.

You know, I've always said we can kind of cure, we can kind of cure a payment for folks. And so that impacts margin. But if people start losing jobs, that's the part we can't fix.

Mike Dahl (Managing Director, Equity Research)

No, it's super helpful. Thanks for all the color there. I guess one more, kind of piggybacking off the previous tariff questions and margin questions. Like Trevor had said, the first quarter margin kind of coming in a little lower mainly given the market weaknesses. As you think about margin through the balance of the year for a higher level, kind of given there's so many moving pieces around tariffs, how are you kind of thinking about taking that into the guide? If I could sneak an extra one in here, are you guys hearing anything on the ground given kind of the recent headlines on immigration and labor as well too? Thanks a lot, guys.

Russ Devendorf (EVP and CFO)

Yeah. From a margin perspective, like I said earlier, I, you know, we are seeing, it's interesting, our backlog. When I look at the aging, it looks like, you know, backlog margins picking up. I think, you know, again, some of our early backlog that's going to be closing, you know, this quarter, you know, is reflective of probably, you know, incentives and discounting we were giving on inventory in Q4. Look, I, it's, I'd be guessing if I told you which way margins are going to go from here. I think like I said, that's the biggest risk. We are seeing, you know, we're seeing kind of that, you know, low to mid margins right now on what we're selling.

You know, in order to keep pace, you know, that's just going to shift based on, you know, where the market goes and, you know, a lot of that's, you know, interest rates and, and you know what happens? Just more macro level. Yeah. And then from a tariff perspective, I don't know, Greg, if you get some color on what we're seeing from subs.

Greg Bennett (Vice Chairman and CEO)

Yeah. You know, I was like, currently we're not seeing any impact, but you know, we don't have our head in the sand either. We are following a list of items daily, weekly with all of our supply chain vendors and staying alert to those things. Really from immigration, tariff, all those things, as of today, there's not been any impact.

Russ Devendorf (EVP and CFO)

Yeah. You want to touch on the cycle times have actually come down and you know, it hasn't been an issue.

Greg Bennett (Vice Chairman and CEO)

Yeah. We were just visiting earlier cycle times year over year. We've taken two weeks, so we ended 2023 at 65 days. We ended 2024 at around 55 days. You know, that helps to shrink backlog, but it also helps with efficiency and cycle and all the things that we're striving for here. You know, in light of those things going on, we've still seen some operational efficiencies.

Mike Dahl (Managing Director, Equity Research)

No, that, it makes a lot of sense. Thanks for all the color, you guys. I'll pass it on.

Operator (participant)

Again, to ask a question, press star one. Our next question will come from the line of Jay McCanless with Wedbush. Please go ahead.

Jay McCanless (Analyst)

Hey, good morning, guys. I guess my first question, Russ, is what have y'all been seeing? Reduce the community count guide. I think you've given an initial fiscal 2025 guide for plus 15% and now you're saying low single digits. Maybe bridge that, that Delta force. I think it's going to be low, low double digits. I think it's like a 12% because we were at 70, 78 and we'll get close to 90. So 12, you know, so it should be, it should be 12%, I think.

Russ Devendorf (EVP and CFO)

We'll get close. I mean, some of that could just be timing. I mean this was just kind of the numbers that we looked at just last week. Some of that is just, you know, we may get a couple of communities over. It's just how quickly can we get lots. I didn't mention on our prepared remarks, but it's definitely still, you know, challenging in some of our municipalities and just getting through approvals. There's always that risk. You know, I think we can get close to that 15% increase. That's actually my second question, was going to be, you know, what's the path for growth this year? Is it going to be mostly organic?

Were you guys still evaluating some potential M&A? Yeah, it's, it's all. So all of our closing growth this year is, you know, I'd say organic. We are in, in Chattanooga, we did, you know, that's being run out of our Atlanta operations, but we've got, I think it's close to about 1,000 lots under control in Chattanooga. So that's, that's a big part where we push pretty far north in Atlanta. We did open Central Georgia. You know, that middle. Middle Georgia. Central Georgia area might, might deliver about 100 closings. Again, that's kind of just an extension of Atlanta growing so big that we've divisionalized that, as we've mentioned before. We opened a division in Greenville. We don't think we're going to get any sales and closings this year.

Although our division president there is doing an excellent job of getting things going. We may have a small opportunity to do something. Everything's organic. We are definitely looking at opportunities. You know, the material, you know, there's still M&A going on. You know, we've seen some deals happen, you know, in the industry. We're seeing some packages, but as we've always said, we'll be opportunistic. You know, we're looking at filling in some spots throughout the Southeast, and, you know, expanding. If we see something we like, we'll look at it. We're certainly not going to overpay. You know, we're comfortable doing Greenfield startups if we like a market. Not, nothing, nothing immediate.

Jay McCanless (Analyst)

Got it. The last one I had just thinking about average closing price for 2025. You initially or you'd said last quarter $335,000-$345,000. Is that still a good range or how should we, how should we modeling that through the year?

Russ Devendorf (EVP and CFO)

Yeah, I think that's still, that's still a good range. I think our backlog is right now at $340,000. And so some of the ASP for this first quarter, it's just really the way our backlog is falling out and it's, you know, could be, could be mix across, you know, different divisions. But yeah, I still think kind of that $340,000 number is as we sit here today is still pretty good.

Jay McCanless (Analyst)

Okay, sounds great. Thank you.

Russ Devendorf (EVP and CFO)

Sure. Thanks.

Operator (participant)

To ask a question, simply press star followed by the number one on your telephone keypad. Our next question will come from the line of Alex Barrón with Housing Research Center. Please go ahead.

Alex Barrón (President)

Yeah, thank you. I was wondering, in terms of the. Incentives you guys are offering, are they mainly in the way of rate buy-downs. Downs or in closing costs? Or are you guys starting to be, you know, the need to do price cuts?

Russ Devendorf (EVP and CFO)

It is primarily in, in closing costs, you know, which also, which include rate buy downs and, and most of our buyers. There is some level of, of rate buy down in there. We are, we are discounting as well. It is a mix, but I would say it is more geared towards closing cost incentives.

Alex Barrón (President)

And what about broker commissions? Are you guys, you know, maintaining whatever. Your standard rate is or are you? Having to feel the need to add bonuses or something like that?

Russ Devendorf (EVP and CFO)

No, it's the same as what we've been doing in the past. We haven't changed. We're still offering incentives, but nothing out of the ordinary.

Alex Barrón (President)

Thank you so much.

Russ Devendorf (EVP and CFO)

Sure.

Operator (participant)

That will conclude our question and answer session. I'll turn the call back over to Greg Bennett for any closing remarks.

Greg Bennett (Vice Chairman and CEO)

Thank you everyone for joining us today. As always, we're accessible. Give us a call and look forward to chatting again next quarter.

Operator (participant)

This concludes today's meeting. Thank you all for joining. You may now disconnect.