United Microelectronics - Earnings Call - Q3 2025
October 29, 2025
Transcript
Operator (participant)
Welcome, everyone, to UMC's 2025 third quarter earnings conference call. All lines have been placed on mute to prevent background noise. After the presentation, there will be a question and answer session. Please follow the instructions given at the time if you would like to ask a question. For your information, this conference call is now being broadcast live over the internet. Webcast replay will be available within two hours after the conference has finished. Please visit our website, www.umc.com, under the Investor Relations/Investor Events section. Now, I would like to introduce Mr. Michael Lin, Head of Investor Relations at UMC. Mr. Lin, please begin.
Michael Lin (Head of Investor Relations)
Thank you, and welcome to UMC's conference call for the third quarter of 2025. I'm joined by Mr. Jason Wang, President of UMC, and Mr. Qi Tung Liu, the CFO of UMC. In a moment, we will hear our CFO present the third quarter financial results, followed by our President's key message to address UMC's focus and fourth quarter 2025 guidance. Once our President and CFO complete their remarks, there will be a Q&A session. UMC's quarterly financial reports are available at our website, www.umc.com, under the Investors Financials section. During this conference, we may make forward-looking statements based on management's current expectations and beliefs. These forward-looking statements are subject to a number of risks and uncertainties that could cause actual results to differ materially, including the risks that may be beyond the company's control.
For a more detailed description of these risks and uncertainties, please refer to our recent and subsequent filings with the SEC and the IOC security authorities. During this conference, you may view our financial presentations material, which is being broadcast live through the internet. Now, I would like to introduce UMC's CFO, Mr. Qi Tung Liu, to discuss UMC's third quarter 2025 financial results.
Qi Tung Liu (CFO)
Thank you, Michael. I'd like to go through the third quarter 2025 investor conference presentation material, which can be downloaded or viewed in real time from our website. Starting on page four, in the third quarter of 2025, consolidated revenue was NT$59.13 billion, with gross margin at 29.8%. Net income attributable to the stockholder of the parent was NT$14.98 billion, and the earnings per ordinary share were NT$1.2. Capacity utilization rate climbed to 78% in that quarter, with wafer shipment just marked 1 million 12-in equivalent wafers. On page five, under sequential comparison, third quarter revenue of NT$59.12 billion increased slightly compared to the previous quarter, mainly due to higher wafer shipment, although the NT dollar exchange rate was an unfavorable factor of around 3%.
Gross margin also climbed on behalf of the better capacity utilization rate to 29.8%, and net income reached nearly NT$15 billion, or an EPS of NT$1.2 per share in NT dollar terms. On year-over-year comparison, on page six, for the first three quarters, revenue grew 2.2% year-over-year to NT$175.7 billion. Gross margin was around 28.4%, or nearly NT$50 billion for the first three quarters of 2025. Overall, net income for the first three quarters is down to NT$2.54 per share compared to NT$3.12 in the previous three quarters of 2024. On page seven, cash is still above NT$100 billion, and total equity of the company is now NT$361 billion at the end of the third quarter of 2025. ASP on page eight shows it remained firm for the past two quarters.
On page nine for revenue breakdown, we see that North America represents about 25% of the total revenue in the third quarter, which is 5% higher compared to 20% in the previous quarter. On the contrary, Asia declined by nearly 4 percentage points to 63% in the third quarter of 2025. IDM versus fabless remain unchanged on page 10 for the third quarter of 2025. On page 11, we noticed the communication and computers edge up in terms of sales mix when consumer declined by nearly 4 percentage points to 29% in the third quarter. On page 12, the segment sales breakdown by technology, 22-nanometer and 28-nanometer still remain our main technology nodes. When 22-nanometer continued to climb in terms of percentage, total 22-nanometer and 28-nanometer revenue reached about 35%. When 40-nanometer and 65-nanometer revenue are somewhat unchanged at about 17% and 18% respectively.
For our quarterly capacity for the third quarter, we see a minor increase coming out of our 12X Shannon fab, with now the monthly capacity is nearly 32,000 wafers per month, and total available capacity will remain flat for the coming quarter. On the last page of my presentation, our annual CapEx is heading to our budget number of NT$1.8 billion, with 90% in 12-in and 8-in. The above is a summary of UMC results for the third quarter of 2025. More details are available in the report, which has been posted on our website. I will now turn the call over to President of UMC, Mr. Jason Wang.
Jason Wang (President)
Thank you, Qi Tung. Good evening, everyone. Here, I would like to share UMC's third quarter results. In the third quarter, we observed demand growth across most market segments, which drove a 3.4% increase in wafer shipments and improved utilization rate to 78%. In particular, we benefited from a pickup in sales of smartphones and notebooks, driving replenishment orders from customers. Our 22-nanometer technology platform continued to provide us with a differentiation in the market, with 22-nanometer revenue now accounting for more than 10% of total sales in 2025 alone. We are projecting over 50 product payables, and we expect 22-nanometer contribution will continue to increase in 2026. Aligned with our strategy of providing customers with highly differentiated specialty technologies, we recently announced the readiness of our 55-nanometer BCD platform.
In addition to mobile and consumer applications, the new platform is also complemented with the most rigorous automotive standards for automotive and industrial use. Looking ahead to the fourth quarter, we are anticipating wafer shipment to be comfortable with third quarter's volume, wrapping up 2025 with shipment growth in the low teens. UMC continues to deliver competitive process technologies that enable diverse applications, which position the company to benefit from a broad-based market recovery. With a 22-nanometer logic and specialty platform in particular, we expect to drive growth. Now, let's move on to fourth quarter 2025 guidance. Our wafer shipment will remain flat. ASP in US dollar will remain firm. Gross margin will be approximately in the high 20% range. Capacity utilization rate will be in the mid-70% range. Our 2025 cash-based CapEx budget will remain unchanged at NT$1.8 billion. That concludes my comments. Thank you all for your attention.
Now we are ready for questions.
Operator (participant)
Yes, thank you, President Wang. Ladies and gentlemen, we will now begin the question and answer session. If you have a question for any of today's speakers, please press the star key and number one on your telephone keypad, and you will enter the queue. After you are announced, please ask your question. If you find that your question has been answered before it is your turn to speak, please press the star key and number two to cancel the question. Thank you. Now, please dial the star key and number one on your keypad if you would like to ask a question. Thank you. First, we'll have Han Liu, Bank of America, for questions. Go ahead, please.
Han Liu (FICC Sales VP)
Yes. Hi, management team. Thanks for taking my questions. My first question is regarding the near-term outlook. Could you discuss more in detail on how you see the business by end market is trending into the current quarter and fourth quarter? It seems the guidance is above seasonal, just wondering if there's anything driving that. Also, just your initial view into the first half of next year, did you get feedback from your customers on the potential restocking? In general, they are still pretty conservative at this stage? Thank you.
Jason Wang (President)
Sure. While we're going into Q4, as I said, we wrap up the 2025 shipment to a low teens. It's now that we project the 2025 shipment growth will be supported by our differentiated 22-nanometer technology and other specialty offerings across both 12 and 8-in, amid a broad-based market demand recovery. On the 12-in side, shipment growth was driven by strong momentum from 22-nanometer logic for ISP, Wi-Fi connectivity, as well as the high-end smartphone display driver IC. In addition to 22 and 28 overall 12-in wafer shipment, it will outpace our addressable market due to our comprehensive value-added specialty portfolio of non-volatile memory, RFSOI, and BCD. On the 8-in side, we expect a high single-digit growth in 2025, mainly led by the PMIC and LDDI.
In summary, the strength of 22-nanometer and the specialty process across both 12-in and 8-in platforms underpin our confidence in achieving a low-teen % shipment growth in 2025. For 2025 Q4, the shipment outlooks remain flat. If we're looking into the early look of 2026, I think we're still going to experience some seasonality. If I look at the entire year, despite the ongoing global economic geopolitical uncertainty, we believe our 2025 business growth momentum will continue into 2026, where we expect wafer shipment will increase year-over-year. In addition to the 10th expansion on the 22-nanometer eHV platform, which is serving the high-end smartphone OLED display driver application, it will be one of the key growth engines. We expect the overall 22 and 28-nanometer revenue to achieve double-digit year-over-year growth in 2026. However, there's still going to be some seasonality that we may have to go through.
Q1 may be one of the challenging quarters for the year. Supported by the strong customer adoption of our 22-nanometer technology, in addition, our technology readiness in RFSOI for smartphone RF front-end devices will also fuel our growth in 2026. Besides the growth of the communication segment, we also foresee our enhanced version of PMIC solution will also continue to drive recovery in our 8-in segment. In 2025, we foresee PMIC business will grow in a high single-digit range, and this growth momentum will extend into 2026. Our efforts on enhancing our technology competitiveness, particularly for the PMIC application, have started to yield some tangible results. That will actually help us to strengthen our position in this market segment and for 2026 growth. If we look beyond 2026, we'll continue to develop new derivative technology to enhance our differentiation and our competitive position.
Furthermore, we're expanding our addressable market into 12-nanometer thin pad, as you know, as well as some of the advanced packaging space. The UMC technology portfolio is well-positioned to serve a growing demand of the power efficiency optimization, high bandwidth data transfer, as well as the improved connectivity. I think, in general, we are relatively confident in 2026, but you know it's still kind of early to go into the quarterly guidance.
Han Liu (FICC Sales VP)
Yeah, that's pretty extensive. I think just a quick follow-up to my first question is when you mentioned the growth momentum could continue into 2025, are you saying that the wafer shipment could actually still be growing by low teens next year, at least? You mentioned a lot of growth drivers by applications just now, especially on 22-nanometer, 28-nanometer, and also 8-in. I'm just wondering whether you are implying that the wafer shipment could grow by another low teens, at least for 2025.
Jason Wang (President)
We're not giving the wafer shipment at this time. We're ready to provide you more clarity into Q1. On 22-nanometer and 28-nanometer particularly, yes, I think that when we go into 2026, we're still expecting a double-digit year-over-year growth. Yeah.
Han Liu (FICC Sales VP)
Thank you. My second question would be on your gross margin strength. I think for the fourth quarter, you guided flat shipment and also pricing. The FX seems to be foreign fringe seems to be more favorable at this stage. Why does the gross margin not go higher than the third quarter? I'm just curious why that is the case, or should we think about high 70% utilization is going to translate into like high 20% gross margins going forward?
Qi Tung Liu (CFO)
Our gross margin in the third quarter is actually, in fact, slightly higher than that of the previous quarter. The gross margin also primarily depends on the transition rate, HP product mix, depreciation, and foreign exchange. As you know, even though the foreign exchange rate may be on a forecast basis better than forecast, it's still appreciated against U.S. dollars, our key receivable currency. It's still in an unfavorable situation. As I mentioned earlier, that almost eats up about 3% of our total revenue. We do expect the Q4 2025 gross margin still will remain in the bandwidth of a high 20% range. Despite the variables such as our depreciation, we'll still see a quarterly increase. This year, we are facing a 20%+ increase in annual depreciation expenses. I hope that answers your questions.
Han Liu (FICC Sales VP)
Yeah. A relevant follow-up is in your cost structure. You have been able to manage the other manufacturing cost item quite nicely down in third quarter, despite the fact that the labor cost is higher, electricity cost is higher, and also the material or even the wafer shipment is slightly higher compared with the second quarter. Could you just elaborate in more detail on how should we think about the other manufacturing costs, which I believe should be mostly variable cost? How should we think about that going to trend? Thank you.
Qi Tung Liu (CFO)
Part of our employee compensation is a bonus which is based upon profit sharing. When we have a better quarter-over-quarter profit in the third quarter, we do have to factor in a higher bonus, which increases the compensation expenses in the third quarter.
Han Liu (FICC Sales VP)
It was still down compared with the second quarter. I was just wondering if there's any reason driving that decline, and would that trend continue?
Qi Tung Liu (CFO)
No, the trend will not continue. It will fluctuate along with our rolling profit recognition.
Han Liu (FICC Sales VP)
Thank you. That's pretty clear. Thanks.
Operator (participant)
Thank you. Next one, Charlie Chan, Morgan Stanley. Go ahead, please.
Charlie Chan (Executive Director and Technology Research Analyst)
Congratulations for very strong results, especially on the gross margin side. Maybe starting with the so-called geopolitical uncertainty, Jason, can you elaborate a little bit what kind of macro uncertainty you see will continue in 2026? I was asked by one of your customers about there seems to be some speculation about semi-terror may come next January. Any kind of potential impact to your business or operation? Also, another uncertainty, it was a couple of weeks ago, right, the rare earth kind of supply. Does your team run through some analysis about the potential impact if rare earth will be restricted again? Thank you.
Jason Wang (President)
Sure. A couple of things, right? I mean, you mentioned about geopolitical dynamics from this tariff. Maybe let's start from the tariff first. We do understand there are uncertainties and risks from the potential impact of tariffs, and we will remain cautious of those potential business impacts and will be mindful in our business planning going into 2026. At this current point, we haven't seen anything yet, but we are cautious. Amidst the uncertainties, we'll also continue to focus on the fundamentals of our business. That is the technology differentiation, manufacturing excellence, and the customer trust to further strengthen our competitive position. I think we still have to go back to the fundamentals. For UMC, to address the geopolitical concerns, I do believe that UMC has a geo-diversified manufacturing site across the globe. The global semiconductor landscape is evolving.
Customers and governments are increasingly emphasizing geographic diversification and supply chain resilience along with the tariff. To address the structural changes and align with the customer needs, our strategic initiative, including the capacity buildup in Singapore and the U.S., and our design to complement our Taiwan facility, will enable us to better support our customers across multiple regions. Over the long term, we are targeting a balanced capacity split between Taiwan and overseas locations. We welcome any opportunity from our customer, whether this is an impact or opportunity to us. We probably have to position ourselves and be ready for that dynamic changes. Yeah.
Charlie Chan (Executive Director and Technology Research Analyst)
Thank you. Jason, specific on semi-terror, right? I think we also went through this discussion last quarter or two quarters ago. Do you also hear that next January could be a final implementation of this semi-terror? Secondly, would UMC get a separate exemption from this semi-terror?
Jason Wang (President)
I mean, your guess will be as good as my guess. I'm not going to guess here.
Charlie Chan (Executive Director and Technology Research Analyst)
I watch TV only.
Jason Wang (President)
Yeah, we're going to be cautious about this. We're closely monitoring the progress and developments. At the same time, given that we are investing into the U.S., we're definitely going to present our case. There's nothing else to update here. If there's anything, we will definitely report back. Yeah.
Charlie Chan (Executive Director and Technology Research Analyst)
Okay. Gotcha. Thank you. The second question is about your gross margin sustainability. I know this quarter, next quarter, some puts and takes, right? Just overall, next year, it seems like some of your industry peers, yeah, maybe I just call it TSMC, kind of hiked their wafer price. Recently, we are seeing that the backend foundry, though it's not like your industry peer, but it's kind of your downstream supply chain, also attempts to hike the backend foundry service price. What does UMC's kind of thought about potential wafer price hike into next year?
Jason Wang (President)
Like Qi Tung Liu mentioned earlier, the margin reflects a result of the ASP loading certain variable factors. Let's take the ASP specifically. For the ASP outlook, our 2025 ASP performance has remained firm amid a dynamic business environment. It has remained stable at a healthy level throughout the year. We expect the ASP will remain firm in Q4 2025. For the 2026 outlook on ASP, we will provide more detail in the upcoming January 2026 conference call. We are going through some discussion with our customer aligning that. We'll probably have more detail to report in the next conference call.
Charlie Chan (Executive Director and Technology Research Analyst)
Okay. On the cost side, it seems like just the semiconductor traders, right, that your team wanted to drive some costs down. I feel like most of the components whatsoever, most of what I'm hearing is commodity cost may go up, right? On the cost side, do you have any preliminary outlook for 2026?
Jason Wang (President)
Without getting into a specific cost projection or outlook, I think we can probably update you about the view in cost, our view in cost about cost. Cost competitiveness is always a mutual goal for us and our suppliers together. In order to be competitive, we're closely working with our suppliers. We'll continue to drive towards cost saving in 2026. That has been going on for many years, but we are continuing to do that into 2026. That includes the combination of both internal and external efforts. It's not only working with the supplier. It's also internal efforts. For example, we have already started leveraging some smart manufacturing and AI technologies internally to enhance our fab efficiency and enabling our long-term operational competitiveness. That's also a major piece of driving our cost scope. I think there's many of the initiatives that we're deploying and working with the supplier.
Supply chain is just one of them. Yeah.
Charlie Chan (Executive Director and Technology Research Analyst)
Okay. Last one, I'll be back to the queue. I know your company and your team have been running through a lot of strategic or marketing research, right? Recently, we picked up one. At that point, I would like to share with you and also consult your view. Because of the T-Glass shortage, we started to see tightening of BT substrate supply. From your perspective, though, UMC's perspective, would that kind of constrain some of your customers' demand, for example, the consumer or smartphone SOC demand into 2026?
Jason Wang (President)
We really haven't seen that, but we are closely monitoring the entire supply chain's resilience. The current market is driven by this AI momentum. There are various areas demonstrating potential supply concerns, but so far, we have not seen any impact to us. Like you said, you know we all look out there and see if there's going to be any. Meanwhile, we are managing our internal perspective. We are managing our supply resilience point of view. We want to ensure the supply assurance as well as both supply and demand, the supply and demand, as well as the quality standard and cost. I think that's always been our initiative internally. I would just have to say we haven't seen any impact on the recent market dynamic, but it's something always on our radar screen, and we'll continue monitoring this. Yeah.
Charlie Chan (Executive Director and Technology Research Analyst)
Yeah. How about smartphone or PC demand recovery? If you have a crystal ball, do you think that two major segments of the end demand will significantly recover next year?
Jason Wang (President)
At least for the Q4 of 2025, we expect the wafer shipment will remain flat. The markets reflect pretty healthy inventory levels as well. We see slightly communication segments decline in our segment, but the computing, consumer, automotive are slightly increased. I'm not sure that's affected by that particular supply issue, but I think it reflects probably more of an end demand associated.
Charlie Chan (Executive Director and Technology Research Analyst)
Okay. Thanks, Jason. Very, very helpful. I'll be back to the queue. Thank you.
Operator (participant)
Thank you. Next one, Laura Chen, Citi. Go ahead, please.
Laura Chen (Analyst)
Yes. Hi. Thank you. Thank you for taking my question. My first question is also about the margin outlook. Qi Tung Liu, you mentioned that the depreciation cost for this year will be up about 20%. We know that actually, in the first half, the depreciation cost increased almost like 30%. Does that mean that depreciation cost year-on-year increase trend is slowing down into Q4, with overall your utilization rate and also ASP seems to be resilient and also higher exposure on 28-nanometer technology node. Should we be looking for some of the potential upside of the gross margin?
Qi Tung Liu (CFO)
Other than depreciation, there are other factors. Like Jason mentioned, we will have a clear view on the ASP, which is an important component for the margin equations. Just on depreciation alone, yes, the increase magnitude will be down to about low teens in the year of 2026 versus 20-something in 2025. In the previous quarter, we also mentioned either 2026 or 2027 should be the peak of the recent depreciation curve. On that regard, it does provide a good floor for helping our EBITDA margin.
Laura Chen (Analyst)
Okay. Great. Thank you. The second question is, I recall that we mentioned about the interposer business before. We know that the AI demand is surging. I just want to understand, UMC, do you have any updated view on the interposer strategy? We know that UMC also has wafer-to-wafer technology. Just wondering, what's the plan here? Do you want to further expand the capacities on interposer?
Jason Wang (President)
The latest development on the advanced packaging space, we will continue preparing our advanced packaging solution for this growing market and associated with the energy consumption of the cloud AI and the edge AI market. For UMC, we are developing the 2.5D interposer with the deep trench capacitor (DTC) and discrete DTC to address the power efficiency requirements in all AI, HPC, PC, notebook, and smartphone space. Second, UMC is leveraging the scalable 3D wafer-to-wafer packaging stacking and the TSV to enhance our specialty technology offering. We are in the mass production of an extremely small form factor for the 5G and 6G RFIC right now by leveraging the wafer-to-wafer stacking technology. Based on the success of the 5G and 6G RFIC through the wafer-to-wafer stacking, we are also developing memory-to-memory stacking and memory-to-large stacking service for the high-bandwidth computing requirements.
Our technology is really associated with the center with the DTC capability and the wafer-to-wafer stacking capability. Right now, it's still within our current capacity size. There's no expansion planned, but there are a lot of customer interest and engagement in development right now.
Laura Chen (Analyst)
Okay. Great. Can you also give us some idea how is that kind of business opportunity growing into the next few years?
Jason Wang (President)
As we anticipated, the cloud AI and the edge AI market will probably take it out in the next two years or so. We think preparing those technology capabilities today will position us well to serve that market when the market comes. I think many customers are engaging in that discussion, exploring the product roadmap at this stage. In terms of the actual volume and the runbook schedule, I would expect it's going to probably be in late 2026 or sometime in 2027.
Laura Chen (Analyst)
Okay, thank you. That's very clear.
Operator (participant)
Thank you. Next one, Sunny Lin, UBS. Go ahead, please.
Sunny Lin (Stock Analyst)
Thank you for taking my questions. Congrats on the very good outlook. Very glad to see business stabilizing and improving. My first question is on the pricing. I understand more specific guidance should be provided in January or in early 2026, but I want to get a bit more color on the latest progress on your engagement with the clients. In 2025, basically, you provided roughly a single-digit type of price reset across the board. How should we expect going to early 2026? Would it be fair to assume that now, given the improving supply demand, even if any price decline should be lower than the magnitude in early 2024 and early 2025?
Jason Wang (President)
That's definitely, I mean, that's our goal, right? While we are still in discussion and aligning with our customers, I can't really quote that. I have to really see the data before I can comment about it. You know, throughout the annual discussions and the past patterns, yes, in January, we'll probably continue engaging in similar discussions. In terms of the magnitude of it, I think it's kind of too early to guide them at this point. Yeah.
Sunny Lin (Stock Analyst)
Got it. Maybe a follow-up on branded ASP. There are still some concerns that there may be some overhang from LTAs expiring in the coming few quarters that could weigh on your branded ASP. Jason, could you maybe provide a bit more color on if any impact or that impact is already gone mostly?
Jason Wang (President)
I mean, LTA is one of the mechanisms that helps us and our customers working up upon us. You know, not only based on the ASP, it's also we based on that provide a mutual commitment for us to put in capacity to support the customer. At the same time, you know, the customer demonstrates some commitment for the business engagement. LTA will continue serving that purpose. Given the market dynamics, we're always working closely with our customers to support them and getting market shares without losing the market share and getting the market shares. Also, with the market dynamics, you know, in terms of commercial needs. At the same time, we have to balance in terms of the CapEx returns. It is a complicated process and a discussion.
We've been doing that for the past two years, and we'll continue supporting our customers to march into that direction of finding a win-win solution based off the LTA arrangement. Yeah.
Sunny Lin (Stock Analyst)
Got it.
Jason Wang (President)
The mutual commitment of LTA remains intact. Yeah.
Sunny Lin (Stock Analyst)
Got it. Maybe one question on 2026, just to make sure that I got the right number. For 2026, Jason, earlier, did you mention the target would be to grow business by double digit?
Jason Wang (President)
I mentioned about the 22-nanometer and 28-nanometer technology that we expect the momentum will go into 2026, and we expect a double-digit growth year-over-year. Yes.
Sunny Lin (Stock Analyst)
Got it. Thank you. Maybe a question on Singapore expansion. If any latest update that you could share with us in terms of how quickly the capacities will be ramped in 2026?
Jason Wang (President)
I think that the milestone has not changed. We project that the 12X Shannon fab production run will start in January 2026, and it will ramp up with a higher volume starting in the second half of 2026. That milestone schedule remains.
Sunny Lin (Stock Analyst)
Got it. Thank you very much. Maybe last question. In terms of dividend policy, given the improving cash flow outlook in the coming few years, would the company consider maybe revisiting the dividend policy to change to like absolute cash dividend? Would that be possible?
Qi Tung Liu (CFO)
It's not impossible, but we always try to strike a good balance between the high % payout ratio and absolute dividends. I think that strategy or that position will continue.
Sunny Lin (Stock Analyst)
Got it. Thank you very much.
Operator (participant)
Thank you. Next one, Gokul Hariharan, JPMorgan. Go ahead, please.
Gokul Hariharan (Managing Director)
Yeah. Hi. Thanks for taking my question, Jason and Qi Tung. I just wanted to understand a little bit more on the pricing. I know that you're in pricing negotiations with customers. Could we talk a little bit about 22 and 28? How is the pricing trend there? Do you expect that there is any concession that we may need to make on 22 and 28 pricing, or that is going to be reasonably firm? Maybe also the same question on the 8-in portion of the capacity as well, given some of your competitors are also kind of putting down or kind of exiting some of the 8-in capacity.
Jason Wang (President)
Our pricing strategy has been very consistent, and we will work closely with our customers for protecting and getting market shares. That remains. That will not change. In the particular number, the ASP guidance, I think it's better that we have all the pictures together and to share with you. In terms of pricing strategy and positioning, that has not changed. We do believe that the pricing is a combination of our value proposition, found technology differentiation, manufacturing capability, reliable capacity, and the diversified manufacturing locations, and so on. We think there's a lot to offer. Along with the mutual commitment with many of the customers, we believe that we will strike a right balance for the pricing discussion. However, again, from the specific guidance on ASP outlook, I would probably prefer to wait until we finish up. I don't want to mislead you at this point.
That goal is whether it's 22 or 28-nanometer technology and as well as the 8-in, because each technology has different market dynamics, and we will work within that dynamics. Meanwhile, you're talking about if we see anything from the 8-in opportunity or due to any other of our peers, we don't typically comment about our competitors. We believe our market share increases in 2025 in 8-in, but not just 8-in, overall 8-in and 12-in legacy nodes. We believe those nodes remain a sweet spot for a wide range of analog reach products. We'll continue to strengthen our product portfolio, focus on those needs, and hopefully, we can increase our market shares. We continue to optimize our existing platform and develop a new solution to better address that market need. This is the area that United Microelectronics Corporation has built some long-standing relations and trusted relationships with our customers.
We believe this structure trend will reinforce our position as a preferred front-end partner for customers in this niche. That will actually help us to sustain our maybe growth in both 8 and 12-in legacy nodes over the long run.
Gokul Hariharan (Managing Director)
Got it. Yeah. Clear on the pricing that we can wait for January. I just wanted to also ask on the semiconductor section to the digital tariffs. How are the discussions with your customers going? Let's say there is a 15% or 20% tariffs on exports, which needs to be offset with any kind of U.S. investment or U.S. capacity that you have. How does UMC manage that situation? Which are the investments, or if any, that can qualify for that kind of an offset? For some of your peers, I think that is pretty clear. I just wanted to understand how UMC is considering the situation.
Jason Wang (President)
I kind of touched that earlier. We have been a very diversified manufacturing location. We have a very diversified manufacturing location in the past. We have a very, you know, I think we pretty much very complement to the current market dynamic. The current geographically discussion on diversification, supply chain resilience, I think our past initiative served that. We just continue, and we may alter that, you know, making some adjustment about that strategy, but you know, not significantly. For instance, the way we're including building capacity in Singapore and the U.S., it's very much aligned to that direction. Of course, the tariff situation, whether it is X %, we don't know yet for Taiwan, but we know some areas already came out as a 15%, and that's where we have our manufacturing sites.
Customers are in discussion in interest of making sure that they have access to those facilities and to those locations. We are definitely entertaining that conversation in a manner of growing our business engagement. We hope that becomes more of an opportunity to us, not just a negative impact. For some areas that is not clear yet, and we have to navigate through that, it's our belief that we have very smart people in this industry. Despite which direction it goes, we will navigate through this process. Yeah. Finding a win-win solution of mutual benefits.
Gokul Hariharan (Managing Director)
Just following up on that, Jason, I think geographical diversification is one aspect, but also the second aspect is U.S. capacity, right? Is your understanding that your 12-nanometer collaboration with Intel kind of counts as U.S. investment and U.S. capacity, given I think the total investment is actually quite small, even though you are actually shouldering a lot of the technology-related tasks?
Jason Wang (President)
I can't comment on how the figure is small, but the investment is investment, and we are putting capacity in the U.S. The starting point of the 12-nanometer technology only lays a solid foundation for us to explore maybe even other collaboration opportunities as well. If there's anything to update, we will update you, but that could also represent even more investment, right? We're not ready to update you on anything yet. Even when I look at the 12-nanometer technology today, that is quite significant in terms of investment.
Gokul Hariharan (Managing Director)
Got it. Maybe one last question on the advanced packaging bit. I think you last time updated, I think, around 6K or so of wafer capacity for 2.5D IC packaging. Is that still where we are in terms of the capacity? For your 2.5D packaging with the deep trench capacitor, what is the application? Is it a slightly different application that you are targeting compared to the mainstream market? That's why you're kind of waiting on the capacity expansion while the industry is still like really asking for a lot of capacity.
Jason Wang (President)
The 2.5D interposer of 6K today stays there. There's no expansion plan beyond that. Given the technology roadmap migrating to the deep trench capacitor, and we're developing the deep trench capacitor capability. For that, we're serving the AI, HPC, PC, notebook, and smartphone space. Our advanced packaging roadmap will center from the deep trench capacitor going into 2026. Yeah.
Gokul Hariharan (Managing Director)
Would you say that the 6K is now fully utilized, or you still have a lot of slack in that 6K capacity right now?
Jason Wang (President)
I mean the product is migrating to deep trench capacitor, that's why we're not expanding the capacity on the 2.5D right now.
Gokul Hariharan (Managing Director)
Okay. Fair enough. This DTC capacity, how significant do you think it is going to become in terms of revenues? Let's say I think you were expecting end of 2026 ramp-up. Let's say in 2027, is that a fairly significant part of your total portfolio, or is it still going to be quite small, similar to the interposer-related revenues, that it's being more like a single-digit, low single-digit kind of % of revenue?
Jason Wang (President)
I think it's kind of too early to predict that. The part of the market is associated with the edge AI market, which we have to wait until that has more clarity. I think at this point, it's too early to project that. In terms of technology-wise, I think that's definitely the core of the next generation. We need to make sure that we have prepared for it. Yeah.
Gokul Hariharan (Managing Director)
Got it. Yeah, thank you very much.
Operator (participant)
Thank you. Next one, Janco Venter. Please go ahead.
Janco Venter (Equity Research Analyst for Semiconductors)
Hi. Thank you for taking my questions. I just wanted to follow up on the investment into the U.S. and just get an update on the state of the PDK. Also, we just want to understand the business model around this engagement on 12-nanometer. Is it revenue share? Is it profit share? Secondly, on that, will it be cannibalistic to the 22-nanometer, 28-nanometer customers as you start migrating to 12-nanometer? Any color that you can add to that to help us just understand this opportunity would be quite helpful.
Jason Wang (President)
Sure. From the project standpoint, currently, the 12-nanometer collaboration with Intel Group is progressing well and remains on track according to the project milestone. We expect the early PDK will be ready for the first wave of customers in January 2026. Both UMC and Intel are aligning with the customer device specs to facilitate the ramp-up. Overall, the collaboration is proceeding as scheduled, and customer product takeout is expected at the beginning of 2027. That is the update on the 12-nanometer. The business model itself, we are working collaboratively together and engaging with the customer. The actual business model that we've probably not elaborated or shared right now. Once the business revenue recognition is ready, we'll update that. The collaboration model is actually fairly structured, but we probably have to report after we enter production. I think that's the two questions you have, right? Did I miss it?
Janco Venter (Equity Research Analyst for Semiconductors)
Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah, that's right. Maybe just one follow-up. I think you touched on this earlier. We talked about potentially looking at further investments. Now, if we look at, you know, actually, we're trying to understand if there's scope perhaps to extend this agreement to single-digit nodes. Because if you look at Intel's business, they've fully depreciated 7 nanometers. It seems like an obvious area to extend the agreement. Is this something that you would potentially, you know, be looking at, and does that make strategic sense for UMC?
Jason Wang (President)
Yes, the simple answer is yes, right? We have to start it from the 12-nanometer technology. We had to make sure that executes well so we can lay a solid foundation on that. For technology beyond 12-nanometer technology, we are open to explore the future opportunity through the partnership arrangement that are mutually beneficial. I will say the collaboration with Intel is strengthening UMC's strategic position in the U.S. significantly and for the U.S. market and also broaden our addressable market while adhering to our discipline, the CapEx approach. We are very committed to this partnership, and so far, the project is progressing well. Yes.
Janco Venter (Equity Research Analyst for Semiconductors)
Thank you very much for that.
Operator (participant)
Thank you. Next one, Bruce Lu, Goldman Sachs. Go ahead, please.
Bruce Lu (VP and Equity Analyst)
Hello. Can you hear me?
Jason Wang (President)
Yes.
Bruce Lu (VP and Equity Analyst)
Yes. I just want to follow up for the US collaboration beyond 12 nanometers. What are the showstoppers for us to, you know, move beyond 12 nanometers at the current stage? Or do we consider to, you know, go backwards to do like relatively mature node capacity in the US?
Jason Wang (President)
I mean, that's an interesting question, right? I think when we talk about this collaboration with Intel, it strengthens our positioning in the U.S. market. Hopefully, we're not only limited at 12 nanometers and that, if we can have a full potential of this position. That's why we're actually very open to explore the future opportunities through this. I don't think there's a, I won't call it any showstopper, but I think as long as it's mutually beneficial, we're definitely open to explore that. Now, is the exploration limited to the more advanced node or backward? I think we are also open to that. We're not limiting ourselves with that.
Bruce Lu (VP and Equity Analyst)
No, Jason, the question is that it's clearly mutually beneficial, right? You know, who has the ball? I mean, you know, who doesn't want to move on?
Jason Wang (President)
I think in any of the engagements, not just this, you require the market validation. You need to make sure you're doing your due diligence. I will probably comment that the old conversations are open and the due diligence needs to be in place before we move forward. It's not truly a showstopper. It's not bowling, which scores. We have to make sure we conduct the appropriate process.
Bruce Lu (VP and Equity Analyst)
In other ways, the prerequisite condition would be that you probably need to deliver 12-nanometer with a decent size of revenue, decent size of customer profile. Then you both might consider to move it on. Is that a right consideration?
Jason Wang (President)
I mean, I won't say that is a prerequisite, but that is one of the important considerations. More importantly, if this collaboration is economically beneficial to both sides. I think that once we are more mature and ready, we definitely will update you. Again, our position on this topic is we are open to that exploration.
Bruce Lu (VP and Equity Analyst)
Okay. When can we expect to see the meaningful revenue contribution from 12-nanometer technology?
Jason Wang (President)
Right now, for the early product takeout, it's going to be in 2027, and we're probably going to start seeing some contribution in 2027, but then ramping after that. Yeah.
Bruce Lu (VP and Equity Analyst)
I understand. Thank you.
Operator (participant)
Thank you. In the interest of time, we're taking the last question. Last one, Charlie Chan, Morgan Stanley. Go ahead, please.
Charlie Chan (Executive Director and Technology Research Analyst)
Thanks for taking my follow-up question. It's actually wafer-on-wafer related. Can you share with us who could be kind of memory partners? It seems like it requires a lot of so-called customized design interfaces, etc. Are those more Taiwanese partners, or do you have some global top memory partners for wafer-on-wafer? Secondly, if you can, can you share some potential kind of end applications and the timing for wafer-on-wafer? Thank you.
Jason Wang (President)
The wafer-to-wafer stacking capabilities are in mass production for some of the extremely small form factor devices in the RFIC space. We're talking about that because we believe, you know, if you look at where the market's going, this technology will serve more than just a small form factor. It provides the option for the memory-to-memory, the larger-to-larger, larger-to-memory stacking options. By providing the option to the customer, they say they can explore many different product applications. At this point, our advanced packaging technology is developing into two cornerstones. One is the deep trench capacitor (DTC) capability. Another is on the wafer-to-wafer stacking capability. Once the technology is ready, we can explore many different applications.
Charlie Chan (Executive Director and Technology Research Analyst)
On this wafer-to-wafer stacking, do you see kind of an advantage or differentiation to industries, for example, TSMC or China’s? I'm not sure. Maybe XMC. Yeah. Any sort of differentiation you may have?
Jason Wang (President)
The developing differentiation technologies is definitely our mandate. We continue driving that technology differentiation. At the same time, you have to make sure that you are part of the ecosystem, you know, where the market is going. We see this from the market standpoint, from the technology product migration standpoint. We believe this is a two very important capability and technology. We're preparing ourselves to get that ready, and then we can start exploring different business opportunities.
Charlie Chan (Executive Director and Technology Research Analyst)
Got it. Thank you. Looking forward to your next updates.
Jason Wang (President)
Yeah, sure. Absolutely.
Charlie Chan (Executive Director and Technology Research Analyst)
Thank you.
Operator (participant)
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, thank you all for your questions. That concludes today's Q&A session. I'll turn it over to UMC Head of IR for closing remarks.
Michael Lin (Head of Investor Relations)
Thank you for attending this conference today. We appreciate your questions. As always, if you have any additional follow-up questions, please feel free to contact [email protected]. Have a good day.
Operator (participant)
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, that concludes our conference for third quarter 2025. We thank you for your participation in UMC's conference. There will be a webcast replay within two hours. Please visit www.umc.com under the Investors Event section. You may now disconnect. Thank you again. Goodbye.