XPeng - Q3 2024
November 19, 2024
Transcript
Operator (participant)
Hello, ladies and gentlemen. Thank you for standing by for the third quarter 2024 earnings conference call for XPeng Inc. At this time, all participants are in listen-only mode. After management's remarks, there will be a question-and-answer session. Today's conference call is being recorded. I'll now turn the call over to your host, Mr. Alex Xie, Head of Investor Relations and Capital Markets of the company. Please go ahead, Alex.
Alex Xie (Head of Investor Relations and Capital Markets)
Thank you. Hello, everyone, and welcome to XPeng's third quarter 2024 earnings conference call. Our financial and operating results were issued by Newswire Services early today and available online. You can also view the earnings press release by visiting the IR section of our website at ir.xiaopeng.com. Participants on today's call from our management will include our Co-founder, Chairman and CEO, Mr. He Xiaopeng, Vice Chairman and President, Dr. Brian Gu, Vice President of Corporate Finance and VW Projects, Mr. Charles Zhang, Vice President of Finance and Accounting, Mr. James Wu, and myself. Management will begin with prepared remarks, and the call will conclude with a Q&A session. A webcast replay of this conference call will be available on the IR section of our website. Before we continue, please note that today's discussion will contain forward-looking statements made under the safe harbor provisions of the U.S.
Private Securities Litigation Reform Act of 1995. Forward-looking statements involve inherent risks and uncertainties. As such, the company's results may be materially different from the views expressed today. Further information regarding these and other risks and uncertainties is included in the relevant public filings of the company as filed with the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission. The company does not assume any obligation to update any forward-looking statements except as required under applicable law. Please also note that XPeng's earnings press release and this conference call include the disclosure of unaudited GAAP financial measures as well as unaudited non-GAAP financial measures. XPeng's earnings press release contains a reconciliation of the unaudited non-GAAP measures to the unaudited GAAP measures. I will now turn the call over to our Co-founder, Chairman, and CEO, Mr. He Xiaopeng. Please go ahead.
Xiaopeng He (CEO)
[Foreign Language]
Hello, everyone. I'm He Xiaopeng.
[Foreign Language]
In the third quarter of 2024, we surpassed our key performance targets. We delivered 46,533 units in the third quarter, reflecting a 54% increase quarter over quarter and a 16% increase year over year, beating the high end of our prior quarterly guidance. September's deliveries exceeded 20,000 units, marking a record high. Furthermore, thanks to the technology-driven cost reduction and growth in scale, our gross profit margin increased to 15.3% in the third quarter, achieving our pinnacle level and demonstrating continuous improvement for five consecutive quarters.
[Foreign Language]
Over the past two years, XPeng has undergone significant transformation amidst challenges. However, I remain calm at the center of the storm because crises often present opportunities. Having overcome these adversities, XPeng has emerged stronger than ever. We're now poised to accelerate our growth and move forward steadily. I would like to express my gratitude to all of our shareholders and everyone who has consistently supported us. We have implemented comprehensive changes in our strategies, products, management, and organizational structure. We've also addressed previous areas of improvement in marketing, sales channels, and design. Moreover, our firm investment in AI technology has begun to yield advantages in both product experience and cost efficiency, helping to bolster our competitive edge.
By prioritizing customer needs, maintaining a business-oriented approach, and keeping the full picture in mind, we have established a robust capability across our entire operations, from product definition and research and development to presale activities, product launches, and delivery. As a result, we have created a series of standout products that truly surprise and delight our users.
[Foreign Language]
XPeng's second decade has started, and I believe the next ten years will be the era of AI or artificial intelligence. I'll strive to lead XPeng to become a global AI-defined car company and spearhead the large-scale application of AI in the mobility industry. Looking at the industry landscape, I anticipate that between 2025 and 2027, which is upcoming three years, we'll see a knockout phase in the Chinese automobile industry. The penetration rate of China's new energy vehicles will likely rise to over 85%, while the integration of AI will lead to the next stage of consolidation of market shares. Unlike the traditional car companies that have relied on cooperative integrated supply chain models for research and development in the past, winners in the AI-defined car sector will be those with in-depth, full-stack self-development capabilities.
We plan to harness the power of AI and use it as a data engine, integrated both software and hardware in our research and development of the whole vehicle, AD, cabin, and engines, etc. This will allow us to iterate and upgrade at an unprecedented speed, creating a substantial advantage over companies that continue to use traditional R&D models regarding user experience and optimization speed. Starting next year, I expect significant advancement in autonomous driving and vehicle intelligence. Introducing AI large models will provide a transformative experience from all aspects, enabling users to embrace safer, more comfortable, more comprehensive, and smarter AI driving and AI-driven vehicles.
[Foreign Language]
On November the 7th, the world's first AI-defined car, the P7+, was officially launched. That night, the number of firm orders exceeded 30,000 and continued to rise. The P7+ has become a phenomenal success in the mid to large BEV sedan market and marks a milestone in the widespread adoption of AI-defined cars. I'm pleased to see that the core reasons users choose the P7+ is its standard, high-standard intelligent driving features across the entire model range. In the past, luxury was defined by configuration, but now it is defined by technology, and this trend is where we are striving to be. We're collaborating with suppliers to expand the production capacity of the P7+, and I expect the delivery volume of the P7+ to exceed 10,000 units in December. Currently, both the M03 and the P7+ have begun double-shift production.
As production capacity ramps up, we anticipate monthly deliveries will set a record in the fourth quarter and will strive to exceed 30,000 units in November. Additionally, steady and long-term progress is one of our main themes for 2025. We'll enter 2025 with tens of thousands of orders, which will increase our delivery volume in the first quarter of next year and lay a solid foundation for a significant increase in sales next year.
[Foreign Language]
Starting from the P7+ model, our new and facelifted Max models will all feature the AI Hawkeye Visual ADAS solution. This is the only ADAS solution in China that does not rely on HD maps or LiDAR, and we'll take it to the rest of the world soon. In the global automotive industry, we're the first to standardize high-level intelligent driving software and hardware across our entire lineup, providing an actual leading experience for the users. We deliver the experience of the level 3 ADAS driving at the cost of level 2, achieving what we refer to as intelligence for all tech-powered driving with the same cost as fuel. Excitingly, in the first half of next year, after the Lunar New Year, MONA M03 Max will start mass producing the platform-based AI Hawkeye Visual ADAS solution.
This will allow us to become the world's first car company to offer advanced intelligent driving vehicles for just RMB 150,000 or about $20,000, lowering the threshold. With our leading AI technology and strong cost control, we have the competitive moats that will serve as our ultimate weapons for navigating from a fiercely competitive red ocean to the opportunities of a blue ocean market.
[Foreign Language]
I believe that over the next one to five years, the penetration rate of smart features will significantly increase non-linearly. Our AI-defined vehicles, which incorporate powerful AI capabilities and autonomous driving features, will accelerate the replacements of cars that lack these technologies or cars that only claim to have these technologies. In 2025, we plan to launch at least four new models, including super electric vehicles, and we'll also update several existing models. Each of these new and facelift models will be very distinctive in their respective market segments, and I look forward to launching more top-selling models that users will love next year.
[Foreign Language]
At our recent AI Tech Day, we unveiled the Kunpeng Super Electric System. Our next generation extended range products, along with our next generation pure electric products, will be our second largest growth engine. Together with our AI capabilities, it will drive strong momentum for accelerated development. Powertrain technology and industry-leading energy efficiency are key components of XPeng's brand. We have received widespread user acclaim for our exceptional energy consumption management, with our electric vehicles regularly exceeding advertised range estimates. In our brand new extended range products, we'll employ high-voltage electric technology, one generation ahead of the market, to address common user pain points facing current extended range products in the market and provide a user experience far superior to many existing extended range products.
The Kunpeng Super Electric Drive System is built on our third generation industry-leading 800 volts platform, supporting various features, including a pure electric range of 430 kilometers, a combined range of 1,400 kilometers, and the 5C Ultra-Charging battery, while also controlling cost, all of which will lead the way for the next generation extended range technology. In the coming future, XPeng will adopt a dual energy approach, offering a batch of new vehicle models with pure electric and super electric powertrain options to cater to the diverse needs of global customers. I believe that this will significantly expand our total addressable market, bringing multiple opportunities for sales growth and accelerating the mass adoption of AI-defined vehicles worldwide.
[Foreign Language]
In terms of operations, the P7+ will also mark a brand new starting point for the overall improvement in vehicle gross margins for XPeng's next generation models. New platform-based technologies we have implemented in the P7+ will also be applied to new models and major facelifts over the next two years of 2025 and 2026. We anticipate that the gross margin of our next generation models will reach double digits, significantly increasing our sales volume to a new level during our strong product cycles and helping us move steadily toward achieving scale profitability.
[Foreign Language]
XPeng's Turing AI Smart Driving System demonstrates our robust full-stack self-development capabilities. It integrates cloud-based and in-vehicle software and hardware, including chips. It sets a new gold standard for next generation full-stack development and highlights our exceptionally efficient R&D iteration process. Many of our peers are still using our previous generation of architecture and technological routes. I believe that enhancing the capabilities of smart driving relies heavily on cloud technologies. Our cloud-based large model has 80 times more parameters than the in-vehicle model, making it the most advanced technology currently available in China's ADAS market. In the coming years, the synergy between our in-vehicle data, cloud-based computing power, and both cloud and in-vehicle large models, and our globalization and car manufacturing will grow exponentially, marking and making significant leaps forward in our large model's performance per the scaling law.
[Foreign Language]
We plan to realize door-to-door full scenario ADAS on Tianji AI XOS 5.5 by the end of this year. This uninterrupted and ultra-smooth driving experience will elevate us from being on par with the first tier to truly leading the pack. We actually were able to deliver a similar experience three years ago already, but it was a combination of multiple solutions, whereas this 5.5 OS is one-stop solution. Next, we plan to achieve a L3-like intelligent driving experience by the fourth quarter of 2025, targeting less than one takeover per 100 km. The more advanced ultra version of the vehicle we're developing now will significantly enhance the computing power on board and incorporate a fully redundant design for core components. This will enable us to mass produce Robotaxi at a low cost while ensuring sufficient safety.
I firmly believe that the substantial improvement in autonomous driving capabilities will make AI a core differentiator among leading automation companies and a key factor in capturing user mindshare. Users will discover that AI is not only applied to autonomous driving, but will also expand and integrate into various aspects, including in-car AI assistance, AI cabin, AR hub, smart chassis, smart audio systems, and AI battery doctors. In the medium to long term, the gap between AI leaders and laggards on product technology, brand image, and profit models will continue to widen.
[Foreign Language]
Now let's talk about globalization. We're accelerating our global presence, leading the way for Chinese smart EV brands in their overseas ventures. Our organizational management, product planning, autonomous driving technology, smart cockpit design, supply chain management, and manufacturing and production are all strategically aligned for global deployment. By collaborating with high-quality overseas dealers, we have extended our reach to more than 30 countries with over 110 sales stores as of the third quarter, and we have experienced strong initial sales in multiple regions. Currently, XPeng ranks first in export sales of Chinese premium BEVs, and our G9 ranks first in the mid to large-size battery electric SUV in Northern Europe. In the third quarter, our overall overseas sales increased by 70% sequentially, accounting for 15% of our total sales volume.
Looking ahead to 2025, we plan to further expand our international sales network to more than 300 stores, expanding to over 90% of the NEV market outside of North America. Our goal is to maintain robust growth in overseas sales over the next two years, aiming to secure the leading position in mid to high-end NEV export sales among Chinese automakers. The rapid expansion of our international business will further boost our profitability.
[Foreign Language]
After two years of headwinds, we're about to enter a brand new positive cycle. In the fourth quarter of 2025, we expect to experience tailwinds driven by AI transformation and the super electric system, which will accelerate our growth and lead us toward profitability. We anticipate our total delivery volume for the fourth quarter of 2024 will range from 87,000 to 91,000 units. This represents a quarter-over-quarter increase of 87% to 95.6% and a year-over-year increase of 44.6% to 51.3%. Additionally, we project our total revenue for the fourth quarter to fall between 15.3 billion RMB and 16.2 billion RMB, reflecting a quarter-over-quarter rise of 51.5% to 60.4% and a year-over-year increase of 17.2% to 24.1%. Moreover, we expect our cash flow in the fourth quarter to improve significantly, resulting in positive free cash flow for the second half of the year.
By year-end, we anticipate our cash on hand will exceed 40 billion RMB. With healthier gross profit and cash flow, we'll have the capacity to invest deeply in research and development for the future, allowing us to consistently and confidently provide our customers in China and abroad with market-leading AI-defined vehicles.
[Foreign Language]
Thank you, everyone. With that, I'll turn the call over to our VP of Finance, James, to discuss our financial performance for the third quarter of 2024.
James Wu (VP)
Thank you, Xiaopeng. Now let me provide a brief overview of our financial results for the third quarter of 2024. I'll reference RMB only in my discussion today unless otherwise stated. Our total revenues were RMB 10.1 billion for the third quarter of 2024, an increase of 18.4% year-over-year and an increase of 24.5% quarter-over-quarter. Revenues from vehicle sales were RMB 8.8 billion for the third quarter of 2024, representing an increase of 12.1% year-over-year and an increase of 29% quarter-over-quarter. The year-over-year and quarter-over-quarter increases were mainly attributable to higher deliveries. Revenues from services and others were RMB 1.31 billion for the third quarter of 2024, representing an increase of 90.7% year-over-year and an increase of 1.1% quarter-over-quarter.
The year-over-year increase was mainly attributable to the increased revenue from the technical R&D services related to the platform and software strategic technical collaboration, as well as electronic and electrical architecture, also known as E/E Architecture technical collaboration with the Volkswagen Group. The quarter-over-quarter increase was mainly attributable to the revenue from technical R&D services related to the E/E Architecture technical collaboration with the Volkswagen Group, partially offset by the reduction in parts and accessory sales. Gross margin was 15.3% for the third quarter of 2024, compared with negative 2.7% for the same period of 2023 and 14% for the second quarter of 2024. Vehicle margin was 8.6% for the third quarter of 2024, compared with negative 6.1% for the same period of 2023 and 6.4% for the second quarter of 2024. The year-over-year increase was primarily attributable to the cost reduction and the improvement in product mix.
The quarter-over-quarter increase was mainly attributable to the cost reduction. R&D expenses were RMB 1.63 billion for the third quarter of 2024, representing an increase of 25.1% year-over-year and an increase of 11.3% quarter-over-quarter. The year-over-year and quarter-over-quarter increases were mainly due to higher expenses related to the development of new vehicle models as the company expanded its product portfolio to support future growth. SG&A expenses were RMB 1.63 billion for the third quarter of 2024, representing a decrease of 3.5% year-over-year and an increase of 3.8% quarter-over-quarter. The year-over-year decrease was primarily due to lower employee compensation in the third quarter of 2024, while the quarter-over-quarter increase was mainly due to higher commissions paid to the franchise stores.
As a result of the foregoing, loss from operations was RMB 1.85 billion for the third quarter of 2024, compared with RMB 3.16 billion for the same period of 2023 and RMB 1.61 billion for the second quarter of 2024. Net loss was RMB 1.81 billion for the third quarter of 2024, compared with RMB 3.89 billion for the same period of 2023 and RMB 1.28 billion for the second quarter of 2024. As of September 30, 2024, our company had cash and cash equivalents, restricted cash, short-term investments, and time deposits in total of RMB 35.75 billion. To be mindful of the length of our earnings call, I would encourage listeners to refer to our earnings press release for more details on our third quarter 2024 financial results. This concludes our prepared remarks. We'll now open the call to questions. Operator, please go ahead.
Operator (participant)
Thank you. If you wish to ask a question, please press star one on your telephone and wait for your name to be announced. If you wish to cancel your request, please press star two. If you're on a speakerphone, please pick up the handset to ask your question. For the benefit of all participants on today's call, if you wish to ask your question to management in Chinese, please immediately repeat your question in English. For the sake of clarity and order, please ask one question at a time. Management will respond, and then feel free to follow up with your next question. Your first question comes from Tim Xiao with Morgan Stanley. Please go ahead.
Tim Xiao (Analyst)
[Foreign Language]So my first question is about the autonomous driving, because in the next three to five years, are you expecting the technology gap of smart driving, be widened or narrow? Several leading local EV brands in China are considering making smart driving a standard configuration for all mass market models. Will the autonomous driving become a me-too function in the future, and how could XPeng ensure consumers can feel and appreciate the difference and choose XPeng's cars because of that? That's my first question. Thank you.
Xiaopeng He (CEO)
[Foreign Language]
Thank you. This is a very good question. Actually, we've been talking about this for the past two years while we are developing our end-to-end large model solution. Now, what we need here for this next generation of capability is not only, first of all, the capital for R&D, but also the computing power and big data as well. And in the coming three to five years, I think any companies who try to compete in this lane, in this landscape will not only have the full stack self-developed R&D capability that combines software and hardware, but also on the cloud side, whole vehicle, chip development, and also E/E architecture development across different car manufacturing capabilities are all essential for having that capability. So in sum, I believe that the gap between different EV makers will actually be widened in the several years.
Another point that I would like to mention is that ADAS capability is just like part of your brain. You have to have not only your mindset, you know, what you think you can do, but you actually need to be able to deliver your claims, and that also will set the bar or the threshold for entering this competition. Another point that I would like to mention is the whole vehicle capability. How do we make sure that the whole car gets smarter in order to carry all this ADAS generation ADAS capability? So I think going forward, users will actually have a better idea or awareness of how capable a company is, how good the product is, and they will have an in-depth experience or firsthand experience of what truly means to have a smart ADAS capability in the product. Thank you.
[Foreign Language]
Tim Xiao (Analyst)
[Foreign Language]
Xiaopeng He (CEO)
[Foreign Language]
I also would like to add that traditionally the model for OEMs to develop cars is to work with Tier 1 suppliers. However, in the future, when we require cars to adapt the ADAS capability from not only the brain, but your upper torso, and your legs, and the whole body, it will actually require a completely different model of development, which will also in the coming three to four years set us apart from the rest of the competition. Thank you.
Tim Xiao (Analyst)
[Foreign Language]. My second question is about the profitability, because over the past few quarters we've seen XPeng posting consecutive margin improvement at both vehicle and at a good level. Looking to next year, how could the company further narrow the loss and the systematically turn the profit? That's my second question. Thank you.
Brian Gu (President)
Hey, Tim, it's Brian. Yeah, let me address this question. First of all, I think, in this quarter's financials, I think we're very encouraged to see that our non-GAAP operating margin, actually the loss has narrowed to 15.5%, compared to, in the second quarter, I think it's about 19%. So you can start to see, operating leverage, narrowing of our operating losses. And I think that trend will continue, as we mentioned that we're gonna, you know, launch P7+, which we think is actually a better margin profile product. And also overall, we actually can see the scale effect coming to play as well as, additionally, we can see continued improvement on the, vehicle margin front.
And also, on the expense side, I think we still also start to see very significant reduction opportunities, for example, for the fourth quarter. I think we are gonna hold a very consistent R&D spend below RMB 2 billion in R&D in total. And that will make our entire year's R&D to be probably less than RMB 6.5 billion in R&D, lower than our original estimate, so going into next year, we start to see these factors gonna compound with additional launch of more, you know, robust products. As we mentioned, we have new models as well as refreshed models to be launched. We also have models that's tackling new segment, including, for example, extended range energy module, so with all that, I think we're very optimistic about our robust growth as well as continued margin improvement.
We still, I think, hold the same view as I think communicated to all of you, starting two years ago that we'll be breaking even at some point next year, probably towards the end of next year. And that is still a view I hold. I think we hope to deliver on that. And also, the improvement also will bring healthy cash flow for the company as well next year. For example, by the end of this year, we estimate we're gonna have over RMB 4 billion on hand, and next year, RMB 40 billion on hand. Sorry, next year, I think we will actually still continue to see healthy cash flow, which allows us to have very comfortable capital base to bring us to break even.
Tim Xiao (Analyst)
Great. Thanks for sharing that details and congrats again on the strong results. Thank you.
Operator (participant)
Thank you. Your next question comes from Ming Hsun Lee with Bank of America. Please go ahead.
Ming Hsun Lee (Managing Director)
My first question is related to export outlook. In 2024, how do you expect the export sales contribution to your total revenue? And currently, because of some overseas market the charging infrastructure is not as good as in China, therefore do you see any potential bottleneck for the EV penetration in certain countries? And in the longer term, will you see your EV product to be the major product for the overseas market?
Brian Gu (President)
Hey, Ming, Brian again. Yeah, let me address your question on overseas market. First of all, I think we do see overseas market as a very robust growth market for us. It's still very early in the electrification process compared to the Chinese market. And also, I think, given our current, you know, coverage of, you know, covering, you know, most of these markets by the end of next year, I think we are hoping to be able to tap into that growth. As you mentioned, you know, the last year, I mean, I would say this year, our overseas market percentage has increased to around 15% of our sales.
I think the next year we expect the contribution will be similar, even though our domestic market growth is very, very significant, but I would still think overseas growth will, you know, you know, I think has a very similar growth profile as well. And then also, in terms of the electric BEV versus extended range format, I think you're right. I think in some markets that we do recognize the lack of infrastructure could be a potential bottleneck for BEV penetration. However, I think these markets, I think currently the BEV penetration is still very low. So there is still ample growth opportunity for BEV models themselves. So we are also very hopeful the growth of BEV exports, as well as market penetration will increase, as we expand into more markets.
But at the same time, once we actually have extended range products, we think in some markets, particularly for markets like, let's say Latin America, or Central Asia, or Middle East, where, you know, charging facility or infrastructure is lacking for efficient and fast charging BEV products, some of the extended range product will actually be also attractive. So we're actually very, very optimistic that both BEV as well as extended range products will be finding attractive growth opportunities in various global markets.
Ming Hsun Lee (Managing Director)
Yeah, thank you, Brian. [Foreign Language] So my second question is related to capacity. Could you advise your latest capacity and also your effective capacity in 2025? Do you have any plan to expand the new plant, or you can just expand your current plant to meet the demand? And recently, do you also see any component shortage across your supply chain? Thank you.
Charles Zhang (VP of Corporate Finance and VW Projects)
Hi, Ming, this is Charles. First of all, I think as we mentioned in the earnings call that both our Guangzhou and the Zhaoqing plant already turned on the second shift. I think each of the plant can support, approximately, 200,000-300,000 per annum based on the two shifts. Also I think as we communicated before, there are also ample reserved land and also existing the plant next to our Guangzhou and the Zhaoqing manufacturing base. So we believe that we can expand our production capacity at fast speed and also with low capital intensity. Also we already had our long-term production capacity planning until 2026. So we believe that all these required manufacturing capacity has been well planned ahead.
And also, given we have long-term planning for our own manufacturing capacity, we are also working with our suppliers, also to expand the suppliers' capacity, because, as you know, we are pushing really hard on the unified platform, and also the components sharing across multiple platforms and vehicles, so it is actually more efficient for our suppliers to expand their capacity with us.
Ming Hsun Lee (Managing Director)
Thank you, Charles.
Operator (participant)
Thank you. Your next question comes from Bin Wang with Deutsche Bank. Please go ahead.
Bin Wang (Analyst)
[Foreign Language] My first question is about the gross margin of the vehicles. Actually in the third quarter you got 2.2 percentage points much expansion. Can you quantify each of the factors? How much came from the product list? How much came from cost reduction? How much came from the, high base? Because second quarter have some NO, NOV, cost. And secondly, okay, you actually guide for the number four quarter, did you, think the vehicle gross margin can go to double digit or not? Thank you.
James Wu (VP)
Hey, Bin, this is James. So to your question on the Q3 versus Q2 margin improvement, I'd say it's primarily driven by two aspects. One is we continued engineering cost reduction with regard to efforts on VAVE, in combination of the battery cost reduction as we see the battery cost is coming down for the entire industry. You didn't mention the EOP impact. We did have some EOP impact in the second quarter, which is less in the third quarter, which is also driving an improvement of the margin. So that's for the quarter-over-quarter improvement. As we look into Q4, we mentioned earlier, the P7+ delivery will start in Q4. This is a product that will embed our latest platform with the cost reduction targets achieved, and representing a double-digit gross margin as we communicated earlier.
This is going to help us further improve our vehicle margin from Q3 into Q4. So as a trend, we do see margin continue to improve, combined with larger scale, as Xiaopeng mentioned earlier, we expect our Q4 delivery to be exceeding prior quarters in the history, therefore helping us to thin our manufacturing cost as well and improve overall margin.
Can we have a double-digit gross margin in the fourth quarter? Possible?
The overall margin will improve. As you can see, we have overall margin in Q3, as reported, and you can expect that to improve in the fourth quarter.
Bin Wang (Analyst)
Okay, thank you. [Foreign Language] The question is that, recently media reported that, Taiwan foundry company may not be able to, doing the OEM for China, chip, suppliers actually for the 7 nanometer. Will this have any potential impact for our upcoming chips? Thank you.
Charles Zhang (VP of Corporate Finance and VW Projects)
Hey, Bin, this is Charles. I think that the mass production of our Turing SoC still progresses well, and we haven't seen any impact on our development of the Turing SoC.
Bin Wang (Analyst)
Okay, thank you.
Operator (participant)
Thank you. Your next question comes from Tina Hou with Goldman Sachs. Please go ahead.
Tina Hou (VP)
[Foreign Language]. Thanks for taking my question. So my first question is regarding long-term cost reduction of EV. So, if we look at it from an angle of the powertrain, the ADAS BOM, including both smart cabin as well as autonomous driving, as well as for maybe potentially the car body and the interior exterior, so how much potential further cost reduction do you think there is in the longer term? Thank you.
Xiaopeng He (CEO)
[Foreign Language]
Thank you. Thank you for this question. Actually, we've been, we've never stopped thinking about that, and our understanding and our possible solution to it has been changing over the years. I remember about a year and a half ago, during the earnings call, I actually made a promise of achieving significant cost reduction. At that time, I actually summoned my courage to make that promise, and I'm very happy and proud that we're able to actually deliver what we promised at that time. And in the coming three to four years, obviously, there are a lot of room for improvement when it comes to cost reduction. A lot of things are very obvious, for example, supply chain optimization, scale, economy of scale, and also technology-driven kind of cost reduction. But specifically, we can do a lot more things as well.
For example, on the one hand, we can do something that we call super integration, meaning that we can actually combine different capabilities of different parts together and make something that is significantly different from what we traditionally have. Or we can also learn and adopt the Apple model, which is to empower the Tier 1 suppliers or help them together develop the capabilities of Tier 2, Tier 3 suppliers advantages, leveraging their already existing logistic capability and a lot of other details that can help us to improve efficiency and cut costs. In addition to that, we also can look at, for example, saving and cost control and in the electronic, electric, materials, et cetera. I mean, these are just some examples, tip of the iceberg, here really.
As a company that's constantly driven by technology innovation, we also can look at the upgrade of our manufacturing process, our craftsmanship in the coming three to four years. We're not going to stop until we achieve, you know, the optimal level of cost cutting. Now, in the future AI Tech Day and also in the future earnings call, you can expect to hear our reporting of every year's cost control, outcome. And I don't think it's not just going to, I don't think that it will come from only the scale or supply chain, control or optimization, but more likely being driven by technological innovation. Thank you.
Tina Hou (VP)
[Foreign Language]. And so second question is regarding our 2025 new model pipeline and also volume outlook. Could we get more details in terms of the four new models? Which quarter will they come out?
And then what kind of price range, what kind of body type, and also our overall volume outlook for 2025? Thank you.
Brian Gu (President)
Hey, Tina, it's Brian. I think, first of all, we are not providing officially any guidance as we've done in the past, so I think right now all I can say is that next year we actually are very confident that we can continue the momentum we're seeing the second half of this year, and also, looking at the growth profile, I think it will be more moderate growth compared to this year, but still, I think it will be second half slightly heavier than the first half, in terms of the model, I think we give you the total number. We're not, at the moment, I think ready to share specific models and exactly when they will be launched, but we mentioned that there will be four new models. One of those will be extended range model.
In addition to those four models, we will have a few refreshes of current models. That will be spread over the next four quarters. You'll expect to see a new model and refresh potentially every quarter.
Tina Hou (VP)
P7+ [Foreign Language]？ So for the four new models, our expectation should not, should not be lower versus MONA as well as P7+?
Brian Gu (President)
I think we are very, very confident that the models we launch will be leading their respective categories. Obviously, different segments and different categories will have different volume expectations, but we do feel like our models will be very competitive in their respective segments.
Tina Hou (VP)
[Foreign Language]。 Thank you very much.
Operator (participant)
Thank you. Your next question comes from Nick Lai with JPMorgan. Please go ahead.
Nick Lai (Stock Analyst)
[Foreign Language] Let me translate my question very quickly. Yeah, at the moment, so-called export overseas market accounted for about 15% of our sales volume, but we understand from other competitors that, for those who have overseas exposure, the profit margin is generally about 1.5-2 times higher than the same model in China. Is that, is it fair to say the same pattern will apply to export? And likewise, how do we educate the overseas customer that, Level 2, Level 3 functionality is something very nice that they need to have in the future?
Brian Gu (President)
Hey, Nick, it's Brian. I think, let me address your first question in terms of overseas markets, profitability contribution, to us. I think there are a couple areas to think about. One is that, yes, in general, I think, the price of selling our models overseas are higher than domestic prices. There's additional cost, obviously, and potential tariff, and duties that we have to pay. But the margin in general is slightly higher, than the domestic, gross margin. But also to be mindful is that, the margins that we achieve in a lot of these overseas markets actually are margins that, wholesale margins because we are working with, importers or, distributors, in those countries where, we are not responsible for retailing and distribution of those products.
So a lot of those margins actually, it's essentially direct contribution to us rather than just a gross margin. So there's a distinction. But I think going into next year, I think you know clearly you know we need to deal with you know changes in tariff changing potential new markets have different regimes. So we need to obviously have a more flexible approach to that structure. But this year, I think the contribution has been pretty positive. And I think Xiaopeng addressed your second question.
Xiaopeng He (CEO)
[Foreign Language]
Thank you. Yes, indeed. Different countries are different. They have different users, different preferences, different regulations. By comparison, for example, Europe versus China, typically China, you know, as a market has a younger group of consumers that are, you know, really attracted by NEVs, whereas in Europe, the majority of the users are middle-aged and above. But also we see a lot of similarities between China and other parts of the world outside of the EU as well. But here for this discussion, I'm going to focus on the differences between Europe and China. Now, right now, what, you know, when it comes to the capabilities being delivered to our European customers, I think they really love smart cabin, fast and ultra-fast efficient charging, our high quality services, after-sales services, and also the valet parking, auto parking, LCC, ACC.
These are the, you know, sort of most commonly accepted and preferred ADAS features that are being loved by European customers. When it comes to other parts of ADAS features, because of the limitation or because of the regulatory environment in Europe, typically, you know, the implementation of those features in Europe is about 12 months behind what we can see in China right now. As a company that is being driven by technology, with heavy investment and very strong capabilities in software and hardware, we are very, very confident in, you know, adopting the same set of solutions, but using different combinations for different markets in order to build our global presence as a premium brand going forward. Right now, you know, as has been proven by market feedback that we are actually able to do that.
So in the future, when it comes to landing or implementing our solutions in different countries, we're going to focus more on not only product and service quality, but also the operations across different regions, to customize for local consumers. Thank you.
Nick Lai (Stock Analyst)
[Foreign Language]. My second question is really about the trade-in policy, from top down standpoint, what's our view on the continuity of the policy into 2025? And likewise, our product sales volume has been very strong, especially for MONA M03 and P7+. If we place orders today and we only get a car sometime in first quarter next year, what's our marketing strategy for the customer who gets a car only in first quarter? Thanks.
Charles Zhang (VP of Corporate Finance and VW Projects)
Hi, Nick, this is Charles. I think we believe that our newly launched product like M03 and also the P7+ are very competitive in terms of the product capabilities. I think that the customer chose the product because I think there's no alternative product or very limited options available to them in the price range. We believe that we will continue to see the strong momentum for the orders for the M03 and also P7+. I think that more importantly, we have very significant huge significant order backlog for both M03 and the P7+. I think this is also very different from a lot of our peers. We will be carrying probably tens of thousands order backlog for both MO3 and the P7+ into the Q1.
We believe that will be a foundation of our growth in 2025.
Nick Lai (Stock Analyst)
[Foreign Language]. My question is, aside from that, thanks Charles. My question is, for the customer who buy P7+ or MONA M03, if they only get a car in first quarter 2025, will XP consider reimburse them, provide an additional incentive? Thanks.
Alex Xie (Head of Investor Relations and Capital Markets)
Hi, this is Alex. First of all, we do not have any specific insight about the government subsidies. We expect the auto sector will still be supported by any of the potential stimulus policy as a priority of any of the economic policy. Regarding the customer expectations, I think they have quite reasonable expectations for the delivery time. As you can see, the delivery time for the P7+ is eight to 11 weeks. I don't think our customers they are expecting to see sort of delivery before the December of this year for most of the customers who put their orders right now, they have reasonable expectations. We don't think they will change their decision because of the subsidies. They chose XPeng cars because of the unique value proposition we bring to these customers in these segments.
P7+, MONA M03, they exceeded the competitiveness of all our peers' models. So, we don't really expect to see a material impact from any potential continuation or discontinuation of subsidies. We just focus on our product competitiveness as well as strengthening our channels.
Nick Lai (Stock Analyst)
Thanks, Alex. Very, very clear. Thank you.
Operator (participant)
Thank you. As there are no further questions now, I'd like to turn the call back over to the company for closing remarks.
James Wu (VP)
Thank you once again for joining us today. If you have further questions, please feel free to contact XPeng's investor relations through the contact information provided on our website or the Piacente Financial Communications.
Operator (participant)
This concludes today's conference call. You may now disconnect your line. Thank you.