Fluence Energy - Q4 2023
November 29, 2023
Transcript
Operator (participant)
Good day, and thank you for standing by. Welcome to Fluence Energy, Inc. Q4 2023 earnings conference call. At this time, all participants are in a listen-only mode. After the speaker's presentation, there'll be a question-and-answer session. To ask a question during the session, you'll need to press star one one on your telephone. You will then hear an automated message advising your hand is raised. To withdraw your question, please press star one one again. Please be advised that today's conference is being recorded. I would now like to hand the conference over to Lexington May, Vice President, Investor Relations. Please go ahead.
Lexington May (VP of Investor Relations)
Thank you. Good morning, and welcome to Fluence Energy's Q4 2023 earnings conference call. A copy of our earnings presentation, press release, and supplementary metric sheet covering financial results, along with supporting statements and schedules, including reconciliations and disclosures regarding non-GAAP financial measures, are posted on the investor relations section of our website at fluenceenergy.com. Joining me on this morning's call are Julian Nebreda, our President and Chief Executive Officer; Manu Sial, our Chief Financial Officer; Rebecca Boll, our Chief Products Officer; and Ahmed Pasha, our incoming Chief Financial Officer. During the course of this call, Fluence management may make certain forward-looking statements regarding various matters related to our business and company that are not historical facts. Such statements are based upon the current expectations and certain assumptions and are therefore subject to certain risks and uncertainties. Many factors could cause actual results to differ materially.
Please refer to our SEC filings for our forward-looking statements and for more information regarding certain risks and uncertainties that could impact our future results. You are cautioned to not place undue reliance on these forward-looking statements, which speak only as of today. Also, please note that the company undertakes no duty to update or revise forward-looking statements for new information. This call will also reference non-GAAP measures that we view as important in assessing the performance of our business. A reconciliation of these non-GAAP measures to the most comparable GAAP measure is available in our earnings materials on the company's investor relations website. Following our prepared comments, we will conduct a question-and-answer session with our team. During this time, to give more participants an opportunity to speak on this call, please limit yourself to one initial question and one follow-up.
Also note that while Ahmed is participating on today's call, he is not going to be participating in the Q&A session, and thus, please direct your questions to the other members of the team. Thank you very much. I'll now turn the call over to Julian.
Julian Nebreda (President and CEO)
Thank you, Lex. I would like to start my warm welcome to our investors, analysts, and employees who are participating on today's call. This morning, I will provide a brief update on our business and then review our progress and our strategic objectives. Following my remarks, Manu will discuss our financial performance for the Q4, and then I will discuss our outlook for fiscal 2024. Before we begin our discussion on the Q4 results, I'd like to spend a few moments addressing the announcement we made a few weeks ago. Manu has decided to step down as CFO of Fluence. He has done a remarkable turnaround job here, and as a result, he caught the attention of others. He received an offer he could not refuse and, more importantly, one that we could not match.
As such, he will be leaving effective December 31 to become CFO of another company in a different industry. On behalf of the board, I would like to send my warm to send a sincere thank you to Manu for the value he helped create at Fluence the past 15 months. Additionally, I would like to send a warm welcome to Ahmed Pasha, our incoming CFO. Ahmed will officially assume this role on January 1, thus ensuring a sufficient transition period. Ahmed comes to us from AES, where he had a 30-year career, most recently serving as the CFO of the Utility Business unit. I personally have worked with Ahmed for many years, and I am excited to continue that at Fluence. Now, I would like to turn the call over to Ahmed to make a few remarks.
Ahmed Pasha (Incoming CFO)
Thank you, Julian, and good morning, everyone. I am excited to be joining Fluence at a time when energy transition is achieving critical momentum, which presents so much opportunity for the company and for energy storage in general. As some of you may know, I have had some experience working with Fluence during my tenure at AES, including during the IPO process and more currently as CFO of the U.S. Utilities business, where Fluence is playing a critical role in helping to transform our energy mix. Since the announcement about two weeks ago, I have had the opportunity to meet with some members of Fluence team, and I'm very impressed with their experience and commitment to enabling the global energy transition.
I look forward to working with them and helping Fluence to achieve its ambitious growth and profitability goals, increase shareholders' value, and deliver on its mission to transform the way we power the world. I would like to express my appreciation to Manu for his invaluable contributions to Fluence, particularly the strong foundation he has established to position us for continued success in the future. In the near term, I will be getting up to speed on things, but I expect to meet with many of our investors and analysts in the coming months. I look forward to hearing their views and sharing how we plan to achieve our key financial and strategic objectives. With that, I will turn the call back to Julian.
Julian Nebreda (President and CEO)
Thank you, Ahmed. Beginning on slide four with the key highlights. I'm pleased to report that in the quarter, we recognized $673 million of revenue. We continue to experience strong demand for our products and services, with new orders totaling approximately $737 million, highlighted by our solution business contracting 2.1 GWh, our services business adding 1.6 GWh, and our digital business adding 1.8 GW of new contracts. Furthermore, our signed contract backlogs as of September 30 remain at $2.9 billion, due to acceleration of select projects ahead of schedule. Turning to adjusted EBITDA, we delivered approximately $20 million for the quarter. This is a tremendous milestone, as we achieved this level ahead of schedule. As you recall, we expected to be close to adjusted EBITDA breakeven for the Q4.
However, we were able to accelerate select projects that resulted in high revenue and margins for the quarter. One of the areas we're concentrating on is organizational speed, especially reducing our project cycle times. We see a lot of value in reducing our cycle times from the roughly 18 months to closer to 12 months. We believe it will take us at least two years to reduce our cycle times down to 12 months. These quarter results are a perfect example of what speed can do to bring increased value to both our customers and our shareholders. Lastly, our services and digital businesses, which together represent our recurring revenue stream, continue to see traction. Our deployed service attachment rate, which is based on our cumulative active service contracts relative to our deployed storage, remains about 90%.
As I noted previously, we typically see a lag between signing solution contracts and entering into a service contract, which is why we believe the cumulative attachment rate is important to monitor. Turning to our digital business, we had a very strong quarter, and as we were able to contract 1.8 GW. More importantly, our digital assets under management increased by more than a gigawatt, and the total number reached 15.5 GW as of September 30. Turning to slide five, I'd like to highlight some of our accomplishments of the past fiscal year. As you may recall, a year ago, we embarked on the transformation of our business. I'm pleased to report that we delivered on our commitments to the market. We grew our annual revenue by 85% and achieved our first profitable quarter.
Importantly, we exceeded our original annual revenue guidance by more than $600 million, thanks to improved execution, easing supply chains, and project timeline acceleration. We burned through almost all our legacy lower margin backlog, and we diversified our supply chains, including securing U.S.-made battery cells with AESC. With the rollout of Fluence OS 7, we have integrated Nispera into our hardware solutions on a go-forward basis, so that now every new storage solution cell has Nispera bundled into it. We built out our India Technology Center, and we published our inaugural sustainability report. A successful year that sets the tone for the years to come. Turning to slide 6, I would like to discuss progress on our five strategic objectives.
As you recall, at this time last year, we laid out five strategic objectives that will guide our actions, and markets that our investors could monitor and measure the company performance against. As we generated our first profitable quarter, I'm pleased to say the first phase of our transformation is complete. The second phase is just getting started, which will continue the theme of profitable growth, now measured through the growth of our nominal Adjusted EBITDA and an annual recurring revenue or ARR, along, alongside the other strategic objectives that will continue to guide us on the second phase of our journey. First, on delivering profitable growth. I'm pleased to report that we exceeded our fiscal year 2023 guidance for both revenue and adjusted gross profit. Today, we're initiating guidance for fiscal 2024.
We expect total revenue for fiscal 2024 to be between $2.7 billion and $3.3 billion. In line with our commitment from our last call, we are initiating guidance for adjusted EBITDA for fiscal 2024 to be between $50 million and $80 million. Second, we will continue to develop products and solutions that our customers need. As such, I'm pleased to report that in October, we launched Gridstack Pro, our larger enclosure providing higher density, faster installation, enhanced performance, and industry-leading safety. In conjunction with the launch of Gridstack Pro, we also launched Fluence OS 7, the latest Fluence operating system, designed with enhanced capabilities and fully integrated with the new Fluence Battery Management System, which I will touch on more in a few minutes. Third, I'm pleased to report that we have secured all our battery needs for fiscal 2024 and 2025.
Four, we will use Fluence Digital as a competitive, competitive differentiator and a margin driver. I'm pleased to report that we are initiating guidance for our annual recurring revenue from our combined service and digital businesses. We expect to generate around $80 million of ARR by the end of fiscal 2024.... And finally, our fifth objective, which is to work better. I'm proud to say that just recently we have, we have launched a new $400 million asset-backed lending facility, or ABL. This credit facility is secured by our U.S. inventory, and we expect it will provide us increased flexibility. More importantly, we believe that the ABL facility provides us additional tools to manage our working capital, our working capital, as we continue to grow. Turning to slide seven. Demand for energy storage continues to accelerate.
In fact, our pipeline now sits at $13 billion, which is an increase of approximately $600 million from the Q3, and a 50% increase compared to this time last year. Additionally, as I mentioned, with our backlog remain consistent at $2.9 billion, even after recognizing almost $675 million during the quarter. Importantly, we had several contracts that were signed just subsequent to quarter end, amounting to approximately $400 million, which provides us with strong visibility to achieving our 2024 revenue guidance. This is the eighth consecutive quarter we added more backlog than revenue recognized, further illustrating the growing demand for energy storage.
Based on the conversations we're having with our customers and potential customers, we're expecting to see top-line year-over-year revenue growth from fiscal 2024 to fiscal 2025 of approximately 35%-40%, showcasing the robust market for utility energy storage. Turning to slide eight. As I mentioned earlier, we launched our Gridstack Pro and OS 7 in fiscal year 2024. These product launches are something our stakeholders should expect periodically from us, as we continue to innovate and identify new ways to serve our customer needs. When you look specifically at our Gridstack Pro solution, this is a much larger product that integrates six battery racks, and is designed for the largest and most complex utility-scale projects globally. Gridstack Pro will offer our customers a denser product with leading safety measures, faster deployment, first-class reliability, and the flexible modular design that defines our product offerings.
More importantly for the U.S. market, the Fluence battery pack will be available with U.S.-manufactured battery cells and modules. This positions Gridstack Pro as one of the first energy storage solutions to qualify for the 10% investment tax credit domestic content bonus under the Inflation Reduction Act. In conjunction with Gridstack Pro, we launched OS 7, the next generation of our operating system. This iteration is meant to handle bigger and more complex projects, and can reliably control more than 1 GWh system, and is fully integrated with the Fluence Battery Management System. This software also provides a foundation for future enhancements to the architecture, and enables component commoditization, such as DC-to-DC converters. It provides new tools targeted to reduce our commissioning times, which, as I mentioned earlier, is a key area for the company. Importantly, OS 7 comes standard with a Nispera platform already preloaded.
This is an important feature, as we expect to provide all our product deployments with basic Nispera access for a certain amount of time, after which customers will be required to sign a longer-term contract if they wish to continue using the APM platform for the BESS facility, or wish to upgrade to additional features. Turning to slide nine. I'm pleased to say that earlier this week, we secured a new $400 million ABL facility. This provides us with an additional tool to help manage our working capital. The new ABL facility features a lower cost of capital relative to our legacy revolving credit facility by approximately 50 basis points, and is secured by a U.S. inventory balance, and is expected to provide us with more flexibility. As our U.S. inventory balance increases, so does our borrowing capacity.
This ABL facility replaces our smaller $200 million revolving credit facility that require cash collateralization. As we enter fiscal year 2024, we believe we have a very strong balance and an ample working capital facilities necessary to scale our platform and achieve our 2024 guidance. Shifting to slide 10, we're introducing guidance for our annual recurring revenue, ARR. For our combined digital and business enterprises, our objective is to reach approximately $80 million in ARR by the conclusion of fiscal year 2024, implying a notable increase of 40% from the preceding year. This target is well supported by a robust service attachment rate exceeding 90%, and a full 100% attachment rate for Nispera moving forward. Additionally, our strategic efforts are concentrated on advancing our Mosaic offerings, currently operational in three markets: Australia, CAISO, and ERCOT.
It's essential to note that we're in the process of refining this platform, with substantial contributions not anticipated before 2025, as previously communicated... In conclusion, I'm pleased with the achievements of the Q4. Although we're mindful there's still work to be done, we will look to continue this momentum as we progress into our new fiscal year. I will now turn the call over to Manu.
Manu Sial (CFO)
Thank you, Julian. I will begin by reviewing our financial performance for the Q4, and then I will pass it back to Julian to discuss our guidance for fiscal year 2024. Please turn to slide 12. Our Q4 revenue was $673 million, an increase of 52% from the prior year same period, and 25% above the Q3. We continued to execute well, as we were able to accelerate some of our legacy backlog previously anticipated for fiscal year 2024, resulting in higher than expected revenue for the Q4. We continue to expect a small portion of our legacy contracts will be recognized in the Q1 of 2024.
Looking at our adjusted gross profit for the quarter, we generated approximately $78 million or approximately 11.6%, in line with that commitment discussed on our Q3 call, and reflects an increase from our Q3 margins of approximately 4.4%. More importantly, this is an increase from the previous fiscal year of 2.8%. I'm pleased to say we have demonstrated cost discipline as our operating expenses, excluding stock cost, as a percentage of revenue, continued to decline and ended up around 9% for the quarter. From a year-over-year comparison, our 2023 OpEx percentage of revenue, excluding stock compensation, came in around 10%, which is below our 2022 results of around 15%, further illustrating our cost discipline.
As a result of our strong execution in the Q4, we were able to generate $20 million of Adjusted EBITDA, and as Julian mentioned, this signals the first phase of our transformation is complete. As we have now become profitable, our focus will shift to growing our nominal Adjusted EBITDA and ARR, which we will discuss further. Turning to our cash balance, I'm pleased to report we ended the Q4 with $463 million of total cash, including short-term investments and restricted cash. This represents an increase of more than $45 million from the Q3. As Julian mentioned, we secured a new $400 million ABL facility. This facility replaces our existing revolving credit facility and upsizes the amount of available borrow, and should enable us to better manage the peak-to-trough elements of our working capital.
When you look at our total cash balance, combined with a new ABL facility and supply chain financing, we have ample liquidity, putting us in an excellent shape to capitalize on the massive TAM in front of us. Please turn to slide 13. From a cash standpoint, we increased our total cash position by 11% relative to the Q3. For 2024, we will continue to invest in technology, resulting in an expected use of cash of approximately $85 million. From a recurring CapEx assumption, a good run rate is between $20 million and $25 million, as this is the level we expect in a steady state environment without large non-recurring investment items, such as the technology, IT, and systems investments we expect to make in fiscal 2024.
As Julian will expand, we expect to generate around $65 million of adjusted EBITDA in fiscal 2024, and we expect to see approximately $65 million-$70 million change in operating cash due to increase in working capital requirements, and includes our deposits for our US-manufactured battery cells from AESC. As we mentioned on our last call, our U.S. battery cell supply agreement with AESC called for a down payment of $150 million to reserve this capacity, which will be paid in installments over fiscal year 2024 and fiscal year 2025, and will be funded by liquidity and customer deposits for these batteries. The first $35 million will be paid in Q1 of fiscal year 2024, and another $35 million will be paid in the Q2 of fiscal year 2024.
As Julian and I mentioned earlier, we have a strong balance sheet entering 2024 and have ample cash and facilities to support our 2024 guide and investments that will support multiyear industry growth. We also expect to generate free cash flow in fiscal year 2025. Before I turn the call back to Julian, I would like to express my appreciation to the Fluence board, management team, employees, and shareholders for their trust. Serving as the CFO of Fluence has been one of the highlights of my career. If I were to participate in the energy transition space today, this would be my preferred spot. I take comfort in knowing Fluence is in an excellent position from a balance sheet perspective as I pass the baton to Ahmed, who will take Fluence into the next chapter. With that, I will turn the call back to Julian.
Julian Nebreda (President and CEO)
Thank you, Manu. Turning to slide 14, as we previously discussed, we're initiating guidance for fiscal 2024 of revenue between $2.7 billion and $3.3 billion. We expect our fiscal 2024 Adjusted EBITDA to be between $50 million and $80 million, and we are targeting our, our ARR to be around $80 million by the end of fiscal 2024.... I'd like to point out that our revenue guidance represents an increase of $300 million when compared to our prior fiscal year 2023 guidance, midpoint, plus our implied revenue growth of 35%-40%. We now expect a fiscal 2024 revenue split of 30% in the first half and 70% in the second half, which is an improvement to what we previously communicated to the market.
As a result of this, we do expect our Q1 to produce negative Adjusted EBITDA due to lower revenue and the execution of the remaining legacy contracts. From a margin perspective, we expect fiscal 2024 Adjusted gross margins to be between 10%-12%, which is an improvement from the fiscal 2023 Adjusted gross margin of nearly 7%. From a cash standpoint, we currently expect to use approximately $85 million of cash in fiscal 2024, mostly funding non-recurring incremental investments in systems and IT infrastructure necessary to support our continuous growth. When looking out to 2025, we expect 35%-40% year-over-year top-line revenue growth. Additionally, we expect to begin generating free cash flow in fiscal 2025. Turning to slide 15, we established ourselves as the preferred choice for utility scale storage solution.
Our competitive advantage is fortified by being able to offer our customers a full wrap of features, including bankability, scale and supply chain management, power, electronic engineering, and innovation, digital software, services, safety, and cybersecurity. While some of our competitors may focus on only a couple of these elements, we often win because we aim to excel in all and provide them universally to our customers. This is corroborated by the 2023 S&P Global Battery and Storage Systems Integrator Report, which ranked the top 10 integrators globally based on installed and contracted capacity. I'm pleased to say that Fluence was ranked number one, both globally and in the U.S. In conclusion, I want to emphasize the key takeaways from this quarter results. Firstly, we had a robust financial performance, contributing to a record-breaking annual revenue.
Attaining profitability for the first time is a significant milestone, and we aim to capitalize on this achievement in fiscal 2024. Second, we proactively secure our future by solidifying our battery supply for fiscal years 2024 and 2025, thus ensuring our ability to meet our growing demand. Finally, the introduction of our new $400 million ABL facility provides us an additional tool to continue capturing the robust growth of the utility-scale. As a reminder, while Ahmed is participating on today's call, he will not be answering any questions. This concludes my prepared remarks. Operator, we're now ready to take questions.
Operator (participant)
Thank you. As a reminder, to ask a question, you'll need to press star one one on your telephone. To withdraw your question, please press star one one again. Please wait for your name to be announced. Again, we ask that you please limit yourself to one question and one follow-up until all have had a chance to ask a question, after which we will answer any additional questions from you as time permits. Please stand by while we compile a Q&A roster. One moment for our first question, please. Question comes from the line of George Gianarikas with Canaccord Genuity. Your line is now open.
Julian Nebreda (President and CEO)
Hey, good morning, George.
George Gianarikas (Managing Director and Senior Equity Research Analyst)
Good morning.
Julian Nebreda (President and CEO)
How are you?
George Gianarikas (Managing Director and Senior Equity Research Analyst)
Doing great. How are you? Thanks for taking my question.
Julian Nebreda (President and CEO)
Doing great.
George Gianarikas (Managing Director and Senior Equity Research Analyst)
So maybe just to start, you know, a lot has been made of the interest rate environment having an impact on project timing in the general renewable space and economics. Your results sort of speak for themselves, but what impact, if any, are you seeing on your business from the change in interest rates? Thank you.
Julian Nebreda (President and CEO)
Great. Thanks, thanks, George. I mean, as we have talked in the past, we work with, you know, the top-tier, you know, developers in the U.S., where this happens. And in. You know, when you look to them, they don't really see any problems raising capital, accessing capital, or putting the projects together. So we have not seen any delays due to, you know, cost of capital or access to capital in general. And I will tell you even more, in our case, because as you all know, our product costs have come down, you know, with battery prices coming down significantly this year.
In a way, when you look, do the math between what our costs, you know, our lower costs compared with the higher, you know, the 100 basis points, generally, that prices have gone, the cost of money has gone up during the year, you know, it's essentially a wash, or maybe actually, you actually can do even better returns than what you do in the past. So we haven't seen any real effect of today. In our customer segment, we do get the same information you get from other parties who we tend not to work with, where they have had some problems, you know, raising money or raising money at competitive rates, well, you know, but we haven't seen it in our group.
You know, we segment with a top-tier group, and that top-tier group essentially has had no problem of accessing capital, you know.
George Gianarikas (Managing Director and Senior Equity Research Analyst)
Thanks. Maybe if I can ask one follow-up, you know,
Julian Nebreda (President and CEO)
Yeah.
George Gianarikas (Managing Director and Senior Equity Research Analyst)
Very recently, one of your competitors, Wärtsilä, announced that they're, you know, exploring strategic alternatives for their energy storage business, any thoughts on that and any impact that it could have on your strategy going forward? Thank you.
Julian Nebreda (President and CEO)
I mean, what I can tell you, I was surprised by it, you know, because the prior quarter, they say that this was gonna be the growth engine. In this quarter, they say that it's difficult to know. We've been trying to understand where they come from. I prefer not to speculate, no, or at this stage. But, you know, I was surprised by it. This is a market that has offering tremendous growth. It's a tremendous opportunity to create value for shareholders, you know, to play in the new energy space. So, why are they revising their view on the market? It's, I have no idea, you know.
But I've been, you know, I've been reading the investors they call, and the rationale, at least it wasn't clear to me, but we'll continue looking at it, you know. We're on the other side of that spectrum, you know, and, you know, doubling down on this. This is a once-in-a-life opportunity. It doesn't get any better than what this market offers today.
George Gianarikas (Managing Director and Senior Equity Research Analyst)
Thank you.
Operator (participant)
Thank you.
Julian Nebreda (President and CEO)
Thank you, George.
Operator (participant)
One moment for our next question, please. Our next question comes from the line of Brian Lee with Goldman Sachs. Your line is now open.
Julian Nebreda (President and CEO)
Hey there, Brian.
Brian Lee (Managing Director and Senior Equity Research Analyst)
Good morning. Thanks. Hi.
Julian Nebreda (President and CEO)
How are you?
Brian Lee (Managing Director and Senior Equity Research Analyst)
Thanks for taking the questions. I'm well. How are you guys? First off, Manu, congrats, and best of luck on your new role, and Ahmed, looking forward to working with you more closely going forward. Couple questions I had was, I guess, you know, appreciate the ARR breakout, $80 million end of this year or end of this fiscal year, a 40% growth, it seems like, versus last year's number. If I look at your bookings, though, in services and digital, it's growing a lot faster. So can you give us a sense of...
I know there's a little bit of a delay, but as we think about, you know, your initial $25 revenue guidance consolidated, like, how, how fast can you grow that ARR balance off of the $80 when I, you know, kind of look at your bookings volume, you know, growing at a much faster rate across services and digital? And then also, what, what's sort of the margins implied in that ARR balance? I suppose it's, you know, I would presume it's pretty high, but can you give us a sense of what, what the range is?
Julian Nebreda (President and CEO)
I mean, on the growth rate, I do think that our view is that our ARR to grow at a higher rate than our solution business, no? Just the way it works. And, and, and the concept is very simple. We will, we have, you know, Nispera and, and, Mosaic and, and, and our services business. Our services business, 90% of our growth rate, you know, of our services, Nispera, roughly around 100, and then Mosaic is on top of that. So, you know, not, not on top of that. We'll be- but we, we can add to it. So I do think that we will see that growth being ahead of it. So that's conceptually where we are, and you can- you know, we're growing 40% compared to what?
The 35-40 that we have, we have said it from last year. In terms of margins, the margins differ, no? I think that for our, you know, their digital business, they're more on the, you know, around 70%, while our service business is between 20%-30%, depending on the type of service, that deal that we agree. So, you know, the combined, you know, there's not a combined ser- you know, there's not a combined margin, but you just think about it this way.
And then in terms of today, I think that, you know, the majority of it is services, but I'll see, I mean, our view is that the digital will grow at a higher rate than our services business, as you'll see, you know, digital becoming a much more relevant part of our ARR as we move forward. So that's kind of how you should think about all of this, you know.
Brian Lee (Managing Director and Senior Equity Research Analyst)
That's great. Yeah, no, appreciate that color. That's super helpful. Second question from me, and I'll pass it on, is, you know, looking at that kind of preliminary fiscal 2025 revenue guidance, $3.5 billion-$4 billion, you know, that's quite robust. It puts you in kind of the $4 billion top-line range, assuming you kinda get to the midpoint. It sounded, Julian, like you were mostly going off of customer conversations and feedback, but could you give us a sense of beyond that? Are there, you know, just some background-
Julian Nebreda (President and CEO)
Brian, I lost you. We're losing you a little bit. I don't know. You mentioned the... You were talking about the 25 robust growth, and then somehow you got... Can you repeat that?
Brian Lee (Managing Director and Senior Equity Research Analyst)
Maybe that's clear. Sorry, I turned off the Bluetooth. I'm just wondering, what beyond customer conversations do you have, you know, any MSAs, contracted backlog? Like, what else are you able to sort of key off on to get comfortable with the 35%-40% additional growth into fiscal 2025? And then when you talk about batteries being secured for 2025, I mean, I would assume that is matching up to that revenue growth potential you're looking at. Is it fixed pricing or is it indexed? Are you subject to any kind of cost volatility on the battery side, just having locked in the volume? Maybe could you remind us where you are on the pricing side of things as well? Thank you.
Julian Nebreda (President and CEO)
Yeah. So on the growth, clearly, I think that you know the best evidence of our growth capabilities comes out of our pipeline. So we looked at our pipeline for this last quarter. We grew our pipeline by $600 million, roughly, on top of converting $735 million to backlog. So in reality, we added $1.3 billion into the pipeline this quarter. And that's where, you know, that gives the and our view, and on top of that, something that we don't disclose, we have leads, you know? Projects that we're working on with customers that we do not believe today we can, you know, consider at a 50% chance of happening within the next two years.
But when we looked at our leads, when we're talking to our customers, what we're doing gives us a good... You know, we feel very confident that we can do 35%-40% for 25. So that's essentially what it is. In terms of, you know, on that, this number compared to where prices are, you know, we build our planning based on our current view of prices or on costs. So, you know, as long as prices stay within what we think, you know, where we are today, generally, which is kind of where we think is gonna stay for the foreseeable future, I think we should be fine.
But what we have also seen, just to be clear, that, you know, if prices were continued to come down, you know, I think that generally what we see is that the volumes increase. So we don't feel that necessarily the 35%-40% today, we don't believe that the 35%-40% growth will be affected by you know, costs coming down or battery costs coming down so much that we, you know, we won't be able to meet it because of that. Because at the end of the day, what happens, a lot of more projects, you know, they, you know, let's say 50% more of our pipeline projects convert into a reality because they are, you know, they're easier to meet the economics of the customers.
So, I think that's our view on that one. Your second point, sorry, I didn't... You had a second point?
Brian Lee (Managing Director and Senior Equity Research Analyst)
Yeah. Yeah, you covered most of it. I guess,
Julian Nebreda (President and CEO)
Okay.
Brian Lee (Managing Director and Senior Equity Research Analyst)
My question around cost was whether or not, I guess, you have margin risk either up or down based on, you know, the security of supply in 25 on volumes, and how locked are in your cost?
Julian Nebreda (President and CEO)
We continue to be, you know. Our strategy is not to take battery price cost risks. So we transfer to our customer that, you know, and our view has always been, you know, with the RMI. So our view has always been as the prices of lithium come down, it goes to our customers. If they were to go up, our customers will pay a higher number, and we don't want to become a commodity. You know, there are much better players. There are much better ways of, you know, betting on the commodity movements than our stock. So we continue with a strategy that hasn't changed. We feel very, very confident on our 10%-15% margin, so, you know, I don't think that will be affected in any way.
Ahmed Pasha (Incoming CFO)
Brian, the margins have held up, right? The battery prices are materially different today than they were a year back, and are-
Julian Nebreda (President and CEO)
Not only how up, they have gone up.
Ahmed Pasha (Incoming CFO)
They've gone up, right. So, from that perspective, I think, you know, Julian and I feel fairly confident.
Julian Nebreda (President and CEO)
That's right, you know. I think the lower battery prices are an opportunity, no, not a risk. You know, clearly, you know, we have organized ourselves in a way that it will not be. It does not affect or change, affects our margin, but they are generally, we see them as an opportunity.
Brian Lee (Managing Director and Senior Equity Research Analyst)
Yeah, I appreciate that. That's what, that's what, that's what I was thinking. Thank you, guys.
Operator (participant)
Thank you. One moment for our next question, please. Our next question comes from Andrew Percoco with Morgan Stanley. Your line is now open.
Andrew Percoco (Equity Research Analyst)
Great, thank you for taking the question.
Julian Nebreda (President and CEO)
Good morning.
Andrew Percoco (Equity Research Analyst)
Good morning. How are you? Well, thanks for taking the question. I guess just to come back to Brian's question, I just want to make sure I understand this correctly. For the 2025 battery supply, have you locked in the pricing with your suppliers on that? I'm just kind of curious if battery prices continue to fall and you've locked in your pricing for 2025, is it going to be more difficult to sign a 10%-15% gross margin contract if you have a higher priced battery versus, you know, where prices go from here?
Julian Nebreda (President and CEO)
I think that I'll put it this way: We have contracts with our suppliers that aligns with the current market world, in a world where prices are coming down. So, you know, that's generally the view. So we're not committing to significant volumes or fixed prices that will be out of price. That's conceptually one side of the spectrum.
Andrew Percoco (Equity Research Analyst)
Mm-hmm.
Julian Nebreda (President and CEO)
No, that's very, very important. We know, you know... Very, very important from our point of view, to have very competitive pricing that is, you know, better, at market or better, you know, and the ability, the access to volumes. And I think that we have been able to design our contracts in a way that meets those goals. And in terms of margins, as I said, you know, I see this as, you know, I don't think the lower pricing will affect our margins, our 10%-15% margins going forward. You know, this is more of good news, you know, more than negative news. And, you know, our 10%-15%, we feel very confident.
That's the way we do deals, and, you know, people might argue, "Hey, your volumes are gonna come down because now you're gonna come out of a lower price." But the reality is that, as I said, a lot of more projects, you know, meet the return criteria for investors, of our customers, so, you know, the volume more than covers any potential price reduction you might see around, so, you know, so-
Andrew Percoco (Equity Research Analyst)
Okay.
Julian Nebreda (President and CEO)
So this is a growth, as I said earlier, you cannot dream... If I looked at when I arrived, you know, at $180 per MWh prices to today, I don't want to say a price, not to let my competitors know, but it's a different world, you know, and it doesn't get any better.... Well, maybe I'll be surprised, and next year will be even better, but.
Andrew Percoco (Equity Research Analyst)
Understood. That, that's super helpful context. Then I guess my follow-up would be, as you look at your backlog or, or even the pipeline, you know, what percentage of it is new renewable energy projects that are adding battery storage versus maybe a retrofit opportunity? Obviously, the IRA presents an interesting opportunity there for retrofits. So I'm just kind of curious how that's, that's breaking down as you look at the pipeline and backlog.
Julian Nebreda (President and CEO)
Yeah. Today, I would say if you looked at our pipeline, the ones that have more than 50% is mostly new projects. You know, retrofits and things of that sort are more in the leads part, you know? So that's, like, mostly in greenfield, you know, if not essentially all today. However, we do see, as you can see, you know, a lot of our customers are looking at talking to us about retrofits or replacing, you know, some, you know, coal facilities, you know. So, you know, there are some in our pipeline or in our contract backlog that are—they're building it into a former coal facility, but generally, they're greenfield.
Andrew Percoco (Equity Research Analyst)
Understood. Thank you.
Operator (participant)
Thank you. One moment for our next question, please. Our next question comes from the line of Joseph Osha with Guggenheim Partners. Your line is now open.
Joseph Osha (Senior Managing Director in Equity Research)
Hello. Congratulations on the great outcome. I've got a couple of questions. First, you've alluded to the gross margin, but as we look at that FY 25 guide, I'm wondering how we might think about operating cost absorption and, you know, what that implies, you know, roughly for the ability of the enterprise to grow EBITDA. I have a couple other questions, but I'll start with that one.
Julian Nebreda (President and CEO)
Hey, Joe. Good morning. I'll let Manu answer this.
Manu Sial (CFO)
So look, I think, consistent with what you said, you know, as you think about, 2025, EBITDA profile, gross margins are probably at the midpoint of the 10%-15% range. And then, we've been very disciplined around operating expense, and we expect to grow operating expense at a little bit less than half of our, top line growth. And you saw that in 2023, and you expect to see that in 2024 and 2025. Look, we are continuing to invest in the business, on the backs of a growing market and $13 billion of pipeline.
Joseph Osha (Senior Managing Director in Equity Research)
Okay. Could we begin to see any material benefit from 45X credits in FY 2025, given how cell availability in the U.S. is evolving?
Manu Sial (CFO)
Yes. In short, answer is yes. But I think, from a modeling perspective, I'd still stick within the lanes I just talked about.
Joseph Osha (Senior Managing Director in Equity Research)
Okay. But to be clear, that number you've put out there does not build in any 45X. Is that correct?
Julian Nebreda (President and CEO)
You know, the way we have, you know, our view on the 45X is that they will be within the range, you know? So that we'll see that the 45X will take us outside of the 10-15 range. That's the way we just think about it. You know, remember, we are building a new line. We're putting it together. We're starting, you know, this... You know, it will require some, you know, taking it up to more, you know, if we get, you know, to a very- to get to scale and efficiency, it takes a little while. So we believe-
Joseph Osha (Senior Managing Director in Equity Research)
Sure. Yeah
Julian Nebreda (President and CEO)
... that the 45X will help us, you know, pay for some of that, you know, learning curve, you know?
Joseph Osha (Senior Managing Director in Equity Research)
Sure, sure. It's, I mean, it's, it's at, you know, it's early days. I just wanted to, to clarify. So it does sound like to the extent that those numbers do flow through the P&L in 25, it would be additive to that range you're, you're discussing. Is, is that, that kind of what you're saying?
Julian Nebreda (President and CEO)
Yeah. Well, I, you know, I'll put it differently. As I said, I do not today, where we are, you know, I believe that the 45X will help us bringing our line into, you know, it will cover, it will, it will cover the cost of the learning curve. That's our view today. We might, we might be able to do this much better than what, you know, what we expect, but having gone through processes like this, it, you know, they, they usually carry some risk, and you need to be... So I don't want to over-promise on this one.
Joseph Osha (Senior Managing Director in Equity Research)
Okay. And then just the last one for me on business mix. Wondering how you're looking in terms of storage-only freestanding products versus, you know, wind and solar coupled projects. Thanks. And that's it for me. Thank you.
Julian Nebreda (President and CEO)
Yeah, we've seen, you know, they seem more and more coming into the first, outside of the US, that's the norm. You know, just to be clear, in the US, we're seeing them come more and more and off more and more. We have signed, we've signed a few last year, during the year. We see more coming into our leads and then into our pipeline, and it will be. I cannot give you an exact number because I don't have it in the top of my head, but we do see that over time that we that will take off in the U.S. The U.S. will start looking more like the rest of the world, where battery storage are standalone processes. But it will take a little time.
You know, these projects, they need to be. People were working on projects that were, you know, with renewable assets. It will take a little time until they actually get them permitted in the queue and, you know, all that process, so.
Joseph Osha (Senior Managing Director in Equity Research)
Okay. Thank you.
Operator (participant)
Thank you. One moment for our next question, please. Our next question comes from the line of Dylan Nassano with Wolfe Research. Your line is now open.
Dylan Nassano (VP)
Yeah.
Julian Nebreda (President and CEO)
Hey, Dylan.
Manu Sial (CFO)
Good morning.
Dylan Nassano (VP)
Thanks for taking my questions. Welcome, Ahmed, and wishing you the best on your new role, Manu. Just wanted to touch on the domestic content offering. I mean, how are those conversations kind of going with the customers right now? How much-
... volume, I guess, are you seeing it drive within the pipeline? And just on the latest IRS rules that came out, does that kind of give any kind of incremental certainty to move the needle at all?
Julian Nebreda (President and CEO)
You know, like we said, I think that our volume growth is based on our view of our domestic content. We do, as we mentioned it also, there might be an opportunity for margin expansion. We said it in the past. It's too early to say today, but, you know, we are working with our customers, and it's going well, but it's too early to say whether we can expand margins based on it. That's our view. But volumes, the growth we're offering essentially includes what our view on where we see our domestic content offering. And, you know, that generally our view on this.
I think that, you know, potentially it could be a margin expansion like, like we said, and as soon as we have visibility, we'll share that with the market to let you know if it changes. Well, that, that might be a potential upside for our 25 margins, just to be sure. I don't think we will see any, any real significant revenue in 2024. It will be a 2025 revenue, you know, so we'll let you know as the, as the year progresses and we start signing contracts, we'll give you a view of what, what we can do. The regulations were a step forward. I think, you know, like all these regulations, they, they respond a set of questions, and they open a new set of questions.
But I think that in general, it's you know, it's good to see it you know, more coming. We're still waiting for more clarifications, but it was good to see some clarifications then. A lot of the issues that were addressing were not related to our industry, but the ones that were related to our industry, to the battery storage, were in line with what we expected, so.
Dylan Nassano (VP)
Got it. Thank you. And then just quick follow-up. Can you just talk a little bit about the geographic breakout of the current backlog and where in the pipeline you may be seeing incremental opportunities pop up? Thanks.
Julian Nebreda (President and CEO)
Yeah, I mean, yeah, generally, the same, the same as our, our, as our revenue, two-thirds, the U.S., you know, the one third, the rest. We see, in terms of markets, I think we talked about this already, Canada has become now a new market where we've been very active and it has been doing very well. But, you know, besides that, I think that generally we see a lot of growth in Australia. Europe, as in, you know, Germany and Germany, who I guess, is the other market where we have done the two transmission projects, and we are continuing to see growth and movement, so. But, but, you know, very, very strong market all around, and, and the U.S. still leads the, the pack.
Dylan Nassano (VP)
Got it. Thank you. That's it for me.
Operator (participant)
Thank you. One moment for our next question. Our next question comes from the line of Ben Kallo with RW Baird. Your line is now open.
Ben Kallo (Senior Research Analyst)
Hi, good morning. Thank you.
Julian Nebreda (President and CEO)
Hey, Ben, how are you?
Ben Kallo (Senior Research Analyst)
Good. Just following up on the last question, how do we think about your cell supply matching up with your geographic opportunities? Just meaning, you know, U.S. cell supply or for domestic content, how you guys think about that in, you know, 2025, 2026 and beyond with those contracts?
Julian Nebreda (President and CEO)
We have, you know, I think we are, besides the U.S. sales, we manage the rest of the world as a global market. So, you know, we today, we don't, you know, there's no risks from sales, not having supply to any of our markets in a specific deal. Our deal for the U.S. supply is a multi-year deal that will cover a few years, and we expect that as, you know, as that becomes a, you know, solidifies and, you know, it will continue for many years. I will tell you something that I think is important. We do, you know, we do see that the U.S. will have both domestic and import content. So we'll have a mix at the end of the day.
So it's not like the U.S. market will become a fully, only domestic content market, at least not at the beginning. For a while, you'll see both, you know, imported batteries and the domestic content batteries competing here, so.
Ben Kallo (Senior Research Analyst)
Thank you. In the past, you've, you've made some acquisitions. I'm just wondering about, you know, looking at your slide 21, you know, the different technologies, either on hardware or software, if there's, you know, areas that you see opportunities, going forward.
Julian Nebreda (President and CEO)
You know, we have said from the word that we were not gonna do any M&A until we had a you know, profitability, so that continues to be our case. Clearly, this quarter has been good. You know, my view on potential acquisitions is the following: We clearly see M&A as an opportunity. You know, it will be maybe one of our ways of offering value to our customers. If we were to do any acquisitions, we'll be connected, most likely to our you know, product development, accelerating our product development. But we have no... We're not working on any acquisitions. There's nothing in the works, or we're not talking to anybody, so don't be you know-- There's enough work with our current business and for us to make it happen, so.
Ben Kallo (Senior Research Analyst)
Okay, sounds good.
Julian Nebreda (President and CEO)
If we're to do anything, it will be, you know, more on the technology side and connected to, you know, a product roadmap.
Ben Kallo (Senior Research Analyst)
Great. Thank you.
Operator (participant)
Thank you. One moment for our next question, please. Our next question comes from the line of Kashy Harrison with Piper Sandler. Your line is now open.
Julian Nebreda (President and CEO)
Hey, Kashy, good morning.
Kashy Harrison (Senior Research Analyst)
Hey, good morning. Thank you for taking the questions. So maybe just a quick follow-up on gross margins. You know, fiscal 2024 guidance calls for 10%-12%, but, you know, Manu discussed 10%-15% as we think about 2025, fiscal 2025. And so just wondering, you know, what are some of the factors that could, you know, potentially push you towards the high end of that range, that 15% versus, you know, the low end of the range of 10%?
Julian Nebreda (President and CEO)
I think that, you know, A, clearly our execution capabilities, you know, move a little higher up. But I think something as, as I mentioned, that could be a material driver will be the U.S. content offering, if we can capture higher margins on that, on that offering. So that's generally when you looked at it, so it will be a combination of maybe, you know, better, even better execution, so we can, you know, do better than what we expected, and the U.S. content offering, which might, the domestic content offering, which might, you know, as I said, this is something that we might see an opportunity for higher margins.
Kashy Harrison (Senior Research Analyst)
That's helpful. Thank you. And then just my follow-up. You know, Manu said this as well, and you know, just doing the quick math, it's clear that you guys think you're gonna be generating free cash flow as we think about fiscal 25. I know it's very early, but you know, if you actually do successfully, you know, if Fluence actually successfully begins generating free cash flow, you know, how do you think about capital allocation priorities for that free cash flow? Is it, you know, are you gonna look to M&A? Are you gonna look to returning capital to shareholders to shore up the balance sheet? Maybe just thoughts on how you wanna use free cash flow to create value for shareholders.
Julian Nebreda (President and CEO)
I think my view on it today, I don't know, is supporting our growth. You know, technology, that's what I think that, where we will. I don't see us distributing, you know, cash flows or distributing dividends or anything of that sort. It's the growth is so if the growth continues, as we expect it to continue, and I would say in the world, we will need all those resources to, you know, meet our customer needs, to create, you know, to. And that, I think, will be the best use of money, and it will create the most value for shareholders. So that's our view. It might change over time, but that, if you ask me about 2025, that's the way I think about it.
Kashy Harrison (Senior Research Analyst)
Got it. Thank you.
Operator (participant)
Thank you. One moment for our next question, please. Our next question comes from the line of Julien Dumoulin-Smith with Bank of America. Your line is now open.
Julian Nebreda (President and CEO)
Good morning.
Speaker 17
Hey, guys. It's actually—hey, Julian, it's Alex Gyurkovits on for Julien.
Julian Nebreda (President and CEO)
Hey, how are you, Alex?
Speaker 17
Congratulations. I'm well. Congratulations to you guys. Congrats to you, Manu. We'll miss you in your next journey, but great results here. Maybe my first question, just to, you know, you guys, obviously, a lot of growth, guided for next year, and obviously the indication for fiscal 2025, robust as well. I'm curious, just, you know, when we think about the bookings cadence to support that, if I look back in time, it seems like you guys see a pretty big step up in the Q1, and then things seem to be sort of levelized, you know, 1x or a little bit greater book-to-bill throughout the rest of the year.
Is that what we should look for kinda next year, or is there any kind of gyrations or things we should watch for on cadence around IRA allowing projects to move forward or not that we should think about, just as far as getting confidence in 2025?
Julian Nebreda (President and CEO)
Yeah. You know, it's maybe what I think will be kind of the next step up will be the domestic content, going back to it, so that which it will happen over the year. It's difficult to have a seasonality on ordering date, to be very sincere with you. It changes over time. So, you know, see, I cannot give you a guidance and say, if you should expect, you know, the much bigger Q1 and then, you know, everything kind of staying the same. It's difficult to give you a view on that from where we are today.
What we can say is that we feel very, very comfortable about our 2024 and 2025 guidance, and, you know, with what, when we see how we're converting pipeline into backlog, and when what we are in discussions with our customers, we feel that we're gonna be able to meet very, very comfortably the 2024 and 2025 volume guidance that we just mentioned, so.
Speaker 17
Got it. Super helpful.
Julian Nebreda (President and CEO)
That's what I can say. You know, First, I don't want to manage this company by quarters, you know? I told my team, "Let's don't... Get the deals, the right deals. Don't worry about meeting a quarter number, because in terms of backlog, it doesn't really, you know, it doesn't really matter." As long as we feel confident that we can make it happen, just, you know, do it whenever we get it.
Speaker 17
Yeah, many of your peers would say you're in the large project business. I know they sort of point to the same. Maybe if I can just ask, you know, obviously a strong environment for storage, obviously sort of a very price-elastic product as far as how the returns evolve. But the other thing I want to ask about is how much of this is just, I mean, as far as the volume growth that you guys are able to put up, how much of this is sort of new customers or a higher win rate, as opposed to the size of the projects you're seeing are just ballooning in size?
Because if we look at the developer side, it seems like we've gone from, you know, 200 MWh to 2 GWh projects in, you know, a year and a half.
Pavel Molchanov (Managing Director and Equity Research Analyst)
I'm just sort of curious how much of that is really kind of driving the confidence here, where it's not just, you know, we have to win a bunch of new customers. It's literally just: Hey, it's the same customers, the projects are just five times bigger than they used to be two years ago. You can kind of expand on that?
Julian Nebreda (President and CEO)
Yeah, my, my view is that, you know, all of the above, you know. That clearly our customers are doing bigger projects, so great. We're also entering new markets like Canada, which are new customers that we didn't have before, and doing more work in Germany. So, you know, I will say in the U.S., it's mostly our projects getting bigger. In outside of the U.S., it's, you know, new customers we're working with, and, you know, that's kind of the way I will put it, so, you know. We have a lot of repeated customers, constantly, all the time, but we're also looking to for customers that meet our, our profile, trying to entice them to come and work with us. So, you know, it's,
Manu Sial (CFO)
I think in general, as the project sizes get bigger across, at least in the U.S. and also outside the US, you know, given the fact that we are one of the select set of providers that can provide multitude of attributes between great safety records, bankability, supply chain, flexibility on attribute management, I think, you know, the current customers keep coming back to us, and we're starting to see new customers who now want to work with partners, who can manage large projects with multiple attributes, start to come our way. That's a way to think about how we step up as we grow through the years.
Pavel Molchanov (Managing Director and Equity Research Analyst)
Yeah, it's a very fair point. Well, again, guys, or guys, congrats. Again, Manu, we'll miss you, but good luck.
Manu Sial (CFO)
Yeah. Thanks so very much.
Julian Nebreda (President and CEO)
Thank you.
Operator (participant)
Thank you. One moment for our next question, please. Our next question comes from the line of Chris Ellinghaus with Siebert Williams Shank. Your line is now open.
Chris Ellinghaus (Managing Director and Director of Equity Research)
Hey, good morning, everybody. Congrats to Manu and Ahmed.
Julian Nebreda (President and CEO)
Good morning, Chris.
Chris Ellinghaus (Managing Director and Director of Equity Research)
The Q4, you know, the Adjusted Gross Margin was 11.6%. You know, is, is that informative for 2024, relative to the guidance? Or, you know, were there some special circumstances there, particularly related to the legacy contracts?
Julian Nebreda (President and CEO)
Yeah. I think, you know, our guidance is at 10-12, so, you know, if you, midpoint is 11. In the Q4, there were some change orders that helped. You know, that's what I would say, that helped, you know, bring it up beyond, below, above the... And those are difficult to predict, you know? So that's the way I would put it, so.
Chris Ellinghaus (Managing Director and Director of Equity Research)
Okay. And, Julian, you talked a lot about battery costs, but, you know, there's a bit of a slowdown in EV sales. Are you expecting that to maybe be a tailwind for battery costs in 2024?
Julian Nebreda (President and CEO)
I think that today, my view is that I don't think prices will continue coming down. That's our current view. They will stay kind of where they are, you know? They won't go up, but I don't see these prices of batteries and lithium and lithium carbonate coming down below where we are. But, you know, if I knew where they were gonna trade, I wouldn't be doing this job. I would be doing something where you make a lot more money. To be very sincere with you. But that's our view. And I think that talking to our suppliers and, you know, our talking to the markets and our visits to China, we're in kind of that's kind of where things will... feel comfortable that that's the way to think about it.
Chris Ellinghaus (Managing Director and Director of Equity Research)
Thanks, Julian. Appreciate it.
Operator (participant)
Thank you. One moment for our next question, please. Our next question comes from the line of Pavel Molchanov with Raymond James. Your line is now open.
Pavel Molchanov (Managing Director and Equity Research Analyst)
Yeah. Thanks for taking the question. As you look to boost your services and software revenue, would you be open to the idea of placing some battery assets on your own balance sheet from the perspective of virtual power plants, peak shaving, rate arbitrage, any of these services that Fluence could participate in directly?
Julian Nebreda (President and CEO)
Yeah, not, not really. I mean, my view on this is that it's our customers. You know, it's our customer's job, they should do it. If I start doing what my customers do, it's a recipe for disaster, so, you know. So no, no, I'm not planning, we're not planning to get into the storage business, you know, or using storage as a service business to third parties.
Pavel Molchanov (Managing Director and Equity Research Analyst)
Understood. Quick follow-up on M&A. As you look at, you know, potential software acquisitions and, you know, like AMS a couple of years ago, is it fair to say that valuation multiples on, you know, in a private company arena have come down quite a bit since AMS, for example?
Julian Nebreda (President and CEO)
Yeah, I mean, as I said, we are not actually in the market, so we're not, I'm not testing prices, so I cannot give you, you know, first evidence of where prices are for potential acquisitions, so. But generally, I heard what you're telling me, that what I hear from the banks is that, you know, when they come and pitch me, it's tough. That, you know, there's, like, all these great opportunities around, but as I said, we're not shopping around, we're not. We are in the process of capture and grow.
Pavel Molchanov (Managing Director and Equity Research Analyst)
All right. Thanks very much.
Julian Nebreda (President and CEO)
Thank you.
Operator (participant)
Thank you. One moment for our next question, please. Our next question comes from the line of Ameet Thakkar with BMO Capital Markets. Your line is now open.
Ameet Thakkar (Director and Equity Research Analyst)
Hi, good morning. Thanks for squeezing me in. Hopefully two quick ones here. It looks like we talked a little about ASPs out in 2024, but it looks like in the current quarter for your revenue recognition, megawatts were kind of flat at 600 MW, but pretty big revenue increase. I was just wondering what kind of caused that big kind of step up in ASPs. Was it the change orders you mentioned a little while ago, Julian?
Julian Nebreda (President and CEO)
That is correct. I think it's a combination of project mix and change orders.
Ameet Thakkar (Director and Equity Research Analyst)
So we should kind of think of that as a little bit of a kind of a one-off?
Julian Nebreda (President and CEO)
Yeah, look, remember, as we run off our legacy projects, some of them were signed way back in 2022, early 2023. You should, you should expect the ASPs to kind of reflect what's happening with the battery prices. But as we said, our margins continue to be intact and grow, through 2024 and 2025.
Ameet Thakkar (Director and Equity Research Analyst)
Great. Thank you. And then, I think in your kind of cash flow guidance, you included the impact of deposits for the AESC battery U.S. cells. I was wondering if you kind of give us a little bit of clarity on what the magnitude of that is and when that cash comes back to you.
Julian Nebreda (President and CEO)
Yeah. So what we've said is, I think it's 150 million over a two years period. I think it's roughly half and half between 2024 and 2025. Half of it gets financed through customer deposits, and the other half we get financed through our own liquidity sources. And, you know, as you can see, we have ample of them. And then as the product starts coming through, we get it, you know, a little bit as AESC ships the product to us. So should start to see some of that deposit come back to us, starting, you know, end of 2024, 2025, along with the supply of the cells.
Ameet Thakkar (Director and Equity Research Analyst)
Great. Thanks for that, and good luck, Manu.
Julian Nebreda (President and CEO)
Hey, thanks a lot.
Operator (participant)
Thank you. One moment for our next question. Our next question comes from the line of Thomas Curran with Seaport Research Partners. Your line is now open.
Thomas Curran (Senior Equity Analyst)
Thanks for going into overtime here, guys. Manu, kudos on making so many positive contributions in such a short period of time, and best of luck on the private side of the auto parts world. Ahmed, congratulations on-
Julian Nebreda (President and CEO)
Thanks a lot.
Thomas Curran (Senior Equity Analyst)
Yeah. Yep, we were quick to pounce on it. And then, Ahmed, congratulations on stepping into some big shoes. Look forward to collaborating with you. You know, a follow-up on how the nature of storage projects have been evolving. It was just touched on about how, you know, the size of them has soared over the last 18-24 months. We've also seen an uptrend in the average duration of systems being installed. Would you expect that, you know, ever longer duration trend to continue? And if so, you know, what are some of the specifics of how you're positioning Fluence to ensure that strategically and technologically and supply chain-wise, you're staying ahead of that trend?
Rebecca Boll (Chief Products Officer)
Yeah. Hi, Thomas, it's Rebecca. So what we see right now and what we're developing and delivering from the product roadmap really is still on that two, four, and six-hour duration system. So kind of in the next 18-24 months, we're gonna deliver what we deliver, which is not yet the multi-day or longer duration than that. What we're doing from a product roadmap perspective is we're examining what's out there in the crystal ball of battery chemistries that allow for longer duration solutions, and we're just starting now to engage with those suppliers and put prototyping efforts in place. So when those things become more viable in the market, we will be ready.
Thomas Curran (Senior Equity Analyst)
Makes sense. Thanks for that, Rebecca. And then just looking to dissect the contracted backlog a bit further, was hoping you could share two percentages with us. First, what's the portion of the current backlog that's non-related parties? And then could you give us a rough estimate for how much of it represents mega projects and storage of the transmission asset combined?
Julian Nebreda (President and CEO)
So on the unrelated party, it's around 75%. As we said, we wanna, I wanna bring it to around 20%. So you know, we're kinda... It, it will be bumpy, so we'll go up and down as, these projects are big. But, you know, I think we are, it's been coming down, and around 20 will be a number I feel comfortable with. So, so today, I think it's around 75%, you know, so kind of in line with what. And our, if you looked at our revenue for the year, I think it was around 29, with, 29 with related parties and 61 with so. And it should, it should tend to go towards the 75% revenue, and then at some point get to the, to the 80% that I just talked about.
Then you were saying on standalone, that was the second part of your question? The-
Thomas Curran (Senior Equity Analyst)
Just, just trying to get a sense, you know, either if, if you want to break them out, that would be great, but even if you just want to look at them on a combined basis, the percentage of the contracted backlog that's either a mega project or storage as transmission asset.
Julian Nebreda (President and CEO)
Yeah, I know. Prefer not to go into that, you know, so at this stage, but, you know, we have a, we have a lot of flavors in that pipeline. That's the way I'll put it, so.
Thomas Curran (Senior Equity Analyst)
Yeah. Hence my curiosity, but-
Julian Nebreda (President and CEO)
Yeah, I know. But I think that, you know, it's better to keep it, you know, with this view, and that allows us, all of us, to work better as we move forward.
Thomas Curran (Senior Equity Analyst)
Fair enough. Thanks for taking my questions.
Julian Nebreda (President and CEO)
Thanks for the question. This, I think this is one of our successes, the ability to continue growing with non... You know, we have our own unrelated party transactions is growing at a much higher rate than the 35-40, as you can see from where our pipeline stands today and where our revenue stands today.
Operator (participant)
Thank you for your questions. This concludes today's conference call. Thank you for participating. You may now disconnect. Everyone, have a wonderful day.