Snap-on - Earnings Call - Q1 2025
April 17, 2025
Transcript
Operator (participant)
Good day, and welcome to the Snap-on Incorporated 2025 first quarter results conference call. All participants will be in a listen-only mode. Should you need assistance, please signal a conference specialist by pressing the star key followed by zero. After today's presentation, there will be an opportunity to ask questions. To ask a question, you may press star, then one on a touch-tone phone. To withdraw your question, please press star, then two. Please note that this event is being recorded. I would now like to turn the conference over to Sara Verbsky, Vice President of Investor Relations. Please go ahead, ma'am.
Sara Verbsky (VP of Investor Relations)
Thank you, Nick, and good morning, everyone. We appreciate you joining us today as we review Snap-on's first quarter results, which are detailed in our press release issued earlier this morning. We have on the call Nick Pinchuk, Snap-on's Chief Executive Officer, and Aldo Pagliari, Snap-on's Chief Financial Officer. Nick will kick off our call this morning with his perspective on our performance. Aldo will then provide a more detailed review of our financial results. After Nick provides some closing thoughts, we'll take your questions. As usual, we've provided slides to supplement our discussion. These slides can be accessed under the Downloads tab in the webcast viewer, as well as on our website, snap-on.com, under the Investor section. These slides will be archived on our website along with the transcript of today's call.
Any statements made during this call relative to management's expectations, estimates, or beliefs, or that otherwise discuss management's or the company's outlook, plans, or projections are forward-looking statements, and actual results may differ materially from those made in such statements. Additional information and the factors that could cause our results to differ materially from those in the forward-looking statements are contained in our SEC filings. Finally, this presentation includes non-GAAP measures of financial performance, which are not meant to be considered in isolation or as a substitute for their GAAP counterparts. Additional information regarding these measures is included in our earnings release issued today, which can be found on our website. With that said, I'd now like to turn the call over to Nick Pinchuk. Nick?
Nick Pinchuk (CEO)
Thanks, Sara. Good morning, everybody. As usual, I'll start by covering the first quarter, and along the way, I'll give you my perspective on our results, our markets, the current environment, our position in the turbulence, how we're engaging the situation, and what we think it all means going forward. Aldo will move on to a more detailed review of the financials. These are interesting times. I don't think we've seen an interlude so packed with economic news. Government shake-ups, tariff bursts, the administration declaring that there's likely to be pain before the renaissance emerges. I mean, the hits just keep on coming. You can see that uncertainty, though, in a more formal way in the consumer sentiment index. It dropped precipitously, decreasing by 30% just since December, the second lowest rating ever. It particularly impacted the perspective of our grassroots economy, like our technician customers.
It prompted an avoidance of longer payback finance items that outran the Tools Group pivoting to quicker payback products. It created the pause in our upward trajectory that's visible in the quarter's numbers. Our sales of $1,141.1 million, as reported, represented a 3.5% decline, including $13.9 million on unfavorable foreign currency translation, and organic sales that were down low single digits, 2.3%, on mixed results across the operating groups. Operating income for the quarter was $243.1 million, and that compared to $270.9 million in 2024. OI margin was 21.3%, and that was versus last year's 22.9%, which, I remind you, included 90 basis points associated with a benefit from the 2024 legal win. Now, notably, the gross margin was 50.7%, up 20 basis points despite the reduced volume.
In effect, our OI margin gap reflected the fact that we kept spending on maintaining and strengthening our advances in product, in brand, and in people, believing, as we did in the pandemic, that it's best to emerge from turbulence at full strength. We plan to do just that. For financial services, operating earnings of $70.3 million were up 2.9% from last year, from last year's $68.3 million. As reported, OI margins in the quarter, including both financial services and opco, were 25.2% versus the 26.5% recorded last year. Quarterly EPS was $4.51, down $0.40, which reflected the lower volume and 16% from last year's legal payment and $0.09 in higher pension amortization costs included in the 2025 number. Now, let's talk about the markets. We believe auto repair is quite critical.
It remains strong and continues to be a great place to operate. The industry metrics agree. Some people have pointed out that hours worked are down over the last couple of months, and that's true. There is positive news almost everywhere else. The US car park, on average, is 12.6 years old, and it's getting old. It's old now, and it's getting older. Household spending on car repairs is up substantially, both year-over-year and over the trailing 12 months. Tech wages continue to rise nicely, mid-single digits. Having said that, the technicians are among those who are daunted by the current turbulence. Many of them believe we're going to a more positive place, but they fear the economy will careen off the rails before we get there. Those people who work are part of the broad group driving the drop in consumer sentiment.
Even though they're now cash rich, they fear they don't have the financial cushion for an off-the-rails event as such. As such, they're reluctant to embrace finance products, items like tool storage boxes or top-of-the-line diagnostics. We can see it clearly in the double-digit drop in our credit company originations. On the other hand, we do believe that the tech, though confidence poor, still have an interest in quicker payback items that makes their work easier. They want to make more money. Our tools group will keep pivoting to match the current preferences, working with perseverance, with focus, and with confidence to restore that group's advance in closing its sales graph, just like it had established last year. That's the tech. That's the tech sector. Also in vehicle repair, we have independent shops and OEM dealerships, approximate but distinct segment from the tech.
That's the market of RS&I. The garages, those people there, continue to tool up with the latest equipment and diagnostic systems, meeting the needs of their customers, getting them back on the road quickly. They know they have to invest. They know they need innovative new products, hardware and software that improve efficiency, repair efficiency, and accuracy. It's an imperative to match the repair complexity of today's sophisticated and technically advanced vehicles. It's table stakes for them in the world of today, and the repair shop owners and managers will keep moving in that direction. Another opportunity in the market we've focused on is critical industries. We've termed the market critical industries. Sectors like natural resources, the military, aviation, heavy-duty fleets, where the penalty for failure is high. This is where C&I makes its money, where we're offering custom solutions to reach new operations and make their critical work easier.
Of course, like everything, we see period-to-period challenges and variations across geographies and across segments, particularly in this time. In the first quarter, we did see the usual pause in military business that almost always temporarily accompanies a new sheriff in the Defense Department. After a period of dysfunction, however, the war fighters win out, and the process gets back on track. In general, this is a robust arena, and we believe the critical industries are in a place of abundant opportunity. We believe we are growing stronger in that arena every day, connecting with more customers, using the insight to expand our product line and extend our presence wider and deeper. Overall, I describe our markets as continuing to offer opportunities. Of course, this is an environment where challenges do exist, and there is turbulence.
We are confident that with our advantages in our strengthening product lines that solve critical challenges, in our extraordinary brand that literally defines a professional, in our very experienced team that's so enabled, we believe will prevail against these challenges. Now, let's briefly address the issue of the day: tariffs. A word that was mentioned last Friday in The Wall Street Journal 254 times. Yesterday, it was down to a mere 163 mentions. Paraphrasing Klausowitz, the world is in a fog of tariffs, a time in which there are so many changing variables that it's difficult to see the way forward. It's an environment that will require urgent action to adjust, to optimize, and to take advantage. We are confident in that fog.
We are, of course, not immune to the challenge of tariffs, but we believe Snap-on is greatly advantaged by our manufacturing strategy to make in the markets where we sell and enable quick adjustment to changing production landscapes that are likely to happen. We already have the facilities: 36 factories around the world, 15 right here in the U.S.A., many of which we've just expanded. We're positioned well with American products. Our major product lines are already made in America using American steel, and our U.S. plants already produce some version of almost all our product lines. What that means is no extended ramp-ups for relocated products. We already have the resident know-how right here in the U.S.A.
For the select rates placed in America, where we use some high tariff components, we have 21 factories outside the U.S. sourcing activities in several locations, and that gives us access to a myriad of alternative sources. Finally, skilled American workers. One of the barriers to reshoring or reacting to tariffs is skilled American workers are in short supply. The National Association of Manufacturers, after all, says there are 500,000 openings in U.S. manufacturing right now. We haven't had difficulty filling positions. We believe we can continue to do just that in the future. We're in the fog of tariffs, but we are confident, and we believe we can engage and manage the turbulence. We're not immune to the impact, but we believe we are very advantaged. Now, let's move to the segments. In the C&I group, organic sales decreased by 2.9%, low single digits.
C&I's operating income was $53.2 million, below the 2024 levels by $2.2 million. Operating margins were 15.5%, a new first-quarter record, up 10 basis points from last year. First quarter, remember, is always seasonally kind of weaker for C&I. In effect, though, if you think about it, this is the key point: gross margin for C&I. Gross margin in C&I in the period were 42.6%, up 180 basis points. Yes, 180 basis points. In effect, we continued OE investments to expand our advantage despite the lower volume, and it was a well-considered offset to gross margin gains, but we believe it was worth it. We're confident in and committed to extending in critical industries, and we'll keep strengthening our position with C&I as we move forward, observing the task and using those insights to design products that make work easier all across critical industries.
You can see that in our torque lineup, where precision and accuracy are essential. The aviation market, where the penalty for failure is high, continues to adapt our control tech wrenches, or what we call the C-tech, made in the U.S., built in our plant located in the city of Elkmont, Alabama. It's an expanding presence in aviation, covering a wide range of sizes, each specifically matched to a unique task. Aerospace makers and fixers love this product for its quality and accuracy, but the big kahuna is its ability to document the force applied to the fastener, wirelessly creating a record that the sensitive task has been completed just as specified. Now, as we recently learned, this is pretty important where aircraft are involved. It's one of the reasons why it's still a strong product.
Our Carroll Stream facility in Illinois produces an elite lineup of preset torque wrenches and wireless controllers, devices that excel in any production operation where our proofing, reducing rework, decreasing warranty needs, and just raising customer satisfaction are vital. Actually, it's pretty much everywhere the operation is critical. Our SR controls link with the manufacturer's internal system, and they relay engineering protocols directly to the shop floor operator, identifying the right tool, confirming the task is complete and correct, storing the record, all to ensure that the right specs were applied and make sure nothing leaves the line without being fully correct. Our newly expanded Kenosha facility, another one of our expansions in the United States, the C&I custom tool department makes the very difficult possible.
A recent example was the aviation maintenance operation, an aviation maintenance operation that required a one-of-a-kind, abnormally long, 3-inch spline socket to effectively access a very tight area in an exceptionally high-performance wing structure. Now, this is not an easy tool to make or to come by, but our customer product team in Kenosha designed it, tested it, and put it in the customer hands, all in quick time, making that critical task easier with insight and speed that's only enabled by an operation close to the customer. That only such an operation close to the customer can achieve. In Murphy, North Carolina, our power tool plant launched a new combination set that was quite well received. The starter set was our PH3050B series air hammer that really packs a punch, hitting with unwavering force, tackling heavy-duty repairs with power and speed.
2,500 blows per minute, our specially hardened piston strikes the chisel with enough force and kinetic energy to dislodge even the most stubborn components. The coolest part of the design is the special Kevlar disc inside the hammer's body, absorbing the shock, dramatically softening the vibration, making it more ergonomic, much easier, and more comfortable for the operator. No more jackhammer joints. In our new set, that beast hammer is paired with our most popular air chisels, hot forged for durability in our Elizabethton, Tennessee plant, and kitted into a foam pallet for easy storage. It's a great package, and the techs know it. That is C&I, a high and first-quarter profit margins, delivering solutions that make work easier, make work safer, and easier and more productive, all enabled by American plants. Now, on to the tools group.
Organic sales were down 6.8%, with a high single-digit decline in the U.S., partially offset by a low single-digit gain internationally. There's a difference between those markets, you notice. Operating income of $92.4 million compared with the $117.3 million of 2024, with an operating margin of 20%. The Tools Group continued to see challenges with the technicians' sliding confidence, with greater hesitancy to purchase long payback items like large tool storage buckets or big ticket items in general. The pivot to faster payback items was gaining traction against the worry brought on by the ongoing wars, the border crisis, and the consistent inflation. We believe the events of the first quarter drove down confidence at an accelerated rate, outrunning the continuing progress of the group's pivot.
Our shift is powered by altered capacities and refocused marketing and promotion campaigns, and probably most importantly, by the introduction of innovative new products that make immediate impact with a short-term payback. Products like made in Snap-on factories, like our recently expanded Milwaukee, Wisconsin plant, bringing raw American steel into the back door, forging it into near-net shape, applying skill and know-how to harden and finish the steel into a final product. One example is our low-profile flange drive socket capacity, recently expanded, purposely built to navigate tight quarters, enabling the tech to beat the clock, beat the flat rate, and expedite the repair by maneuvering around instead of removing obstacles to reach the fastener. It's to get right around. It doesn't have to spend the time removing the obstacle.
Once engaged, the patented design grips the bolt on flats and not on the corners, quickly removing the part with ease without debilitating damage to the points of the fastener. Quick payback items like our other quick payback items, like our Synergy Hunter Tooth Ratchet, made in our Elizabethton, Tennessee forge, a design that's unprecedented for strong and easy operation in tight spaces. It's now been introduced for our entire range, including our challenging-to-make long-handle versions. This quarter, we put the Synergy together with an array of those low-profile sockets, a combination that offers increasing accessibility, versatility, and reliability. A powerful match. The shops love those quick payback sets, and they're right in the current preferences for the techs. When technicians are bouncing from bay to bay or job to job, they need versatility to make speedy adjustments and remove hardware.
Another quick payback hit product is our lineup of adjustable wrenches made in our Elkmont, Alabama facility. It's the only American-made adjustable wrench on the market. It's a demonstration of US-made flexibility, handling a wide range of different-sized fasteners with just one tool. Kind of the cool part about this is the smaller models are easy to fit in your pocket, so they're always as ready as you move from bay to bay. For customers needing to secure their tool investments, we released our latest additions to the roll cart lineup, our KHP 46. This is at the bottom end of the bigger ticket items. It rolls out of our Algona, Iowa facility, and it provides a rugged and secured storage that's only 40 inches wide, making it easy to position right in the work area.
It is equipped with slides providing drawer capacity up to 240 lbs. That means it is a solid chassis that can hold everything necessary for positioning essential tools close to the workplace. In addition, the unit's top compartment can be configured in multiple layouts for managing power tools. It has an installed 120-volt outlet and USB port that allow all tech's electronic accessories and cordless batteries to be charged and be at the ready. The KHP 46, a roll cart that is solid, mobile, with powerful features, a sturdy storage solution with a quicker payback. It matches the needs of confidence-poor techs that require a storage upgrade now, and it is popular. That is the tools group, armed with U.S. factories, vertically integrated, with the ability to speed designs and flexibility for pivoting to short payback items determined to prevail in the turbulence. Now, let's move to RS&I.
Sales in the first quarter of $475.9 million with an organic gain of 3.7%, advancements in our diagnostics and Mitchell One operations, and strong double-digit improvements in our OEM markets. Operating earnings for RS&I were $122.1 million, up $9.2 million or 8.1% from last year. The operating margin was 25.7%, representing an all-time high for the first quarter, and that was up 140 basis points better than 2024, reflecting continuing software expansion and the benefits of RCI. RCI shined through the turbulence this quarter with a gangbusters performance, and it was enabled by product. Let's talk about that product a minute. We continue to enhance our software coverage, leveraging our proprietary databases with over 500 billion data points and 3 billion repair records, numbers that are unrivaled in the industry and unrivaled in helping techs navigate and diagnose cars faster. It's a lasting advantage.
Keeping current with the tech's preference, keeping consistent or current with the tech's now preferences, we celebrated the 20th anniversary of our Solus diagnostic unit. This version, the latest version, called a Solus Plus, built in our San Jose, California production and development center. It's aimed at simplifying the complex and making techs faster at diagnosing the true failures of modern vehicles. It's our fastest handheld with a two-second boot-up, and it's our fastest payback way to powerful vehicle diagnostics. The techs responded to the campaign, recognizing the power and the speed of the handheld, all at a quick payback. The program was actually one of the highlights of the quarter. Later in the quarter, our Rochester Hills, Michigan facility released our all-new ProLink Plus platform, the handheld diagnostic platform focused on heavy-duty commercial trucks, new hardware, a faster processor, and an improved touchscreen.
The major advancement is integration with our repair database with the repair databases of Mitchell One, putting repair procedures, vehicle specifications, and step-by-step routines for fixing the truck directly into the tech's hands. The new Michigan-based ProLink puts Snap-on in the clear lead for multi-model heavy-duty diagnostics. Louisville, Kentucky is home to our vehicle lift plants, all types and sizes of lifts. Among the biggest hits is our Challenger CB10 AB3, the two-post lift with a unique ability to adjust in width on the fly. It's flexible enough to be installed in any facility, in any bay, and powerful enough to handle a wide range of vehicles. Lifting vehicles is essential for accessing suspension system and for making transmission setups and for EV repairs.
For a range of shop tasks, with this lift, the techs can adjust the suspended height, allowing for the best ergonomic approach to the work and bringing them closer to the workpiece to execute the repair. The Challenger 334B, it's a great product, and everybody knows it, and it's from Louisville, Kentucky. We know this is a turbulent time, but RS&I had a strong quarter, and we believe it's poised for more. We keep driving to expand that group's position with repair shop owners and managers, offering more new products developed by our value creation process, and we believe it is a winning formula. That is our first quarter, quarters of both challenge and advancement. Gross margin, 50.7%, up 20 basis points despite the lower volumes. The tools group continues to pivot toward shorter payback items, matching tech's preferences.
C&I penetrating critical industries, recording Q1 operating margin of 15.5%, driven by precision, torque, and custom solutions. RS&I also recorded an operating margin record in the first quarter, 25.7%, driven by software and unmatched databases. The environment is interesting. We are on alert, but we are confident, confident in our product, in our brand, and in our people, and confident in our ability to confront the fog with clear advantage. Now I'll turn the call over to Aldo. Aldo?
Aldo Pagliari (CFO)
Thanks, Nick. Our consolidated operating results for the first quarter are summarized on slide six. Net sales of $1,141.1 million in the quarter compared to $1,182.3 million last year, reflecting a 2.3% organic sales decline and $13.9 million of unfavorable foreign currency translation. Activity in our automotive repair markets was mixed.
Gains in sales to OEM and independent shop owners and managers were more than offset by lower sales to technicians through our franchise van channel. Within the industrial sector, or our C&I group, as compared to last year, declines in sales to the military and in our European-based hand tools business more than offset increases with other critical industry customers. Consolidated gross margin improved 20 basis points to 50.7% from 50.5% last year, primarily reflecting benefits from the company's RCI initiatives. Operating expenses as a percentage of net sales rose 180 basis points to 29.4% from 27.6% in 2024, mostly due to a non-recurring benefit of $11.3 million from legal payments received last year and the effects of lower sales volumes, partially offset by savings from RCI initiatives.
Operating earnings before financial services of $243.1 million in the quarter compared to $270.9 million in 2024, as a percentage of net sales operating margin before financial services of 21.3% compared to 22.9% reported last year, which included a benefit of 90 basis points from the legal payments. Financial services revenue of $102.1 million in the first quarter compared to $99.6 million last year, while operating earnings of $70.3 million compared to $68.3 million in 2024. Consolidated operating earnings of $313.4 million compared to $339.2 million last year. As a percentage of revenues, the operating earnings margin of 25.2% compared to 26.5% in 2024, again, including the benefit from the legal payments. Our first quarter effective income tax rate was 22.2% in both years.
Net earnings of $240.5 million compared to $263.5 million in 2024, and net earnings per diluted share of $4.51 in the quarter compared to $4.91 per diluted share last year. When comparing the quarter's EPS with the first quarter of the prior year, there is a $0.25 of headwinds on a year-over-year basis. In the first quarter of 2025, diluted earnings per share included approximately $0.09 per share of increased year-over-year non-service net periodic pension expenses, primarily from higher amortization of actuarial losses, while the first quarter of 2024 included a $0.16 per share benefit from the legal payments. Now let's turn to our segment results for the quarter. Starting with the C&I group on slide seven, sales of $343.9 million compared to $359.9 million last year, reflecting a 2.9% organic sales decline and $5.6 million of unfavorable foreign currency translation.
The organic reduction includes low single-digit decreases in activity with customers in critical industries and in the European-based hand tools business. With respect to critical industries, a double-digit reduction in sales to the military, mostly as a result of contract delays, more than offset higher sales of our specialty torque products and in other critical industry sectors. Gross margin improved 180 basis points to 42.6% in the first quarter from 40.8% in 2024. This was primarily due to lower material and other costs, increased volumes in the higher gross margin sectors of critical industries, and savings from RCI initiatives. Operating expenses as a percentage of sales of 27.1% in the quarter compared to 25.4%, largely reflecting the impact of reduced sales volumes. Operating earnings for the C&I segment of $53.2 million compared to $55.4 million last year, the operating margin improved 10 basis points to 15.5% from 15.4% in 2024.
Turning now to slide eight, sales in the Snap-on Tools group of $462.9 million compared to $500.1 million a year ago, reflecting a 6.8% organic sales decline and $3.6 million of unfavorable foreign currency translation. The organic decrease reflects a high single-digit decline in the U.S. business, partially offset by a low single-digit gain in our international operations. During the quarter, we believe the heightened economic uncertainty continued to weaken confidence and technician sentiment, which impacted their willingness to increase their purchases in the current environment. Gross margin declined 190 basis points to 46.3% in the quarter from 48.2% last year, mostly due to a year-over-year shift in product mix and from the decreased volumes. Operating expenses as a percentage of sales of 26.3% in the quarter compared to 24.7% in 2024, largely reflecting the lower sales volumes.
Operating earnings for the Snap-on Tools group of $92.4 million compared to $117.3 million last year, the operating margin of 20% compared to 23.5% in 2024. Turning to the RS&I group shown on slide nine, sales of $475.9 million compared to $463.8 million in 2024, reflecting a 3.7% organic sales increase, partially offset by $4.9 million of unfavorable foreign currency translation. The organic gain includes a double-digit increase in activity with OEM dealerships and a low single-digit gain in sales of diagnostic and repair information products to independent repair shop owners and managers. These gains more than offset a mid-single-digit decline in sales of undercar equipment. Gross margin improved 70 basis points to 45.7% from 45% last year, primarily reflecting increased sales of higher gross margin products and benefits from RCI initiatives, partially offset by higher material and other costs.
Operating expenses as a percentage of sales improved 70 basis points to 20% from 20.7% in 2024, largely due to the higher sales volumes and savings from RCI initiatives. Operating earnings for the RS&I group of $122.1 million compared to $112.9 million last year. The operating margin improved 140 basis points to 25.7% from the 24.3% reported last year. Now turning to slide 10, revenue from financial services of $102.1 million reflected an increase of $2.5 million or 2.5% from $99.6 million last year. Financial services operating earnings of $70.3 million compared to $68.3 million in 2024. Financial services expenses of $31.8 million compared to $31.3 million last year, provisions for credit losses of $19.1 million compared to $18.8 million in 2024. As a percentage of the average financial services portfolio, expenses were 1.3% in the first quarters of both years.
In the first quarters of 2025 and 2024, the respective average yields on finance receivables were 17.6% and 17.7%, while the average yields on contract receivables were 9.1% and 9% respectively. Total loan originations of $268.7 million in the first quarter represented a decrease of $33 million, or 10.9% from 2024 levels, including an 11.7% decline in extended credit originations. The decrease in extended credit origination mostly reflects lower sales of big ticket, longer payback items such as tool storage units. Moving to slide 11, our quarter-end balance sheet includes approximately $2.5 billion of gross financing receivables with $2.2 billion from our U.S. operation. For extended credit or finance receivables, the U.S. 60-day plus delinquency rate of 2% is up 20 basis points from the first quarter of 2024, but unchanged from the last reported, the number reported last quarter.
Trailing 12-month net losses for the overall extended credit portfolio of $67.8 million represented 3.41% of outstandings at quarter-end. While delinquencies and net losses have been trending upward, we believe that these portfolio performance metrics remain relatively balanced considering the current environment. Now turning to slide 12, cash provided by operating activities of $298.5 million in the quarter represented 121% of net earnings and compared to $348.7 million last year. The decline as compared to the first quarter of 2024 largely reflects the lower net earnings and higher year-over-year increases in working investment. Net cash used by investing activities of $32 million mostly reflected capital expenditures of $22.9 million and net additions to finance receivables of $8.2 million.
Net cash used by financing activities of $193.6 million included cash dividends of $112.2 million and the repurchase of 260,000 shares of common stock for $87.2 million under our existing share repurchase program. As of quarter-end, we had remaining availability to repurchase up to an additional $398.4 million of common stock under our existing authorizations. Turning to slide 13, trade and other accounts receivable increased $37.1 million from 2024 year-end. Day sales outstanding of 66 days compared to 62 days at year-end 2024. Inventories increased $17.8 million from 2024 year-end, including some investment to mitigate supply chain uncertainties. On a trailing 12-month basis, inventory turns of 2.4 were the same as year-end 2024. Our quarter-end cash position of $1,434.9 million compared to $1,360.5 million at the end of 2024.
In addition to our existing cash and expected cash flows from operations, we have more than $900 million available under our credit facilities. There were no amounts borrowed or outstanding under the credit facility during the year, nor was any commercial paper issued or outstanding in the year. That concludes my remarks on our first quarter performance. I'll now review a few outlook items for the balance of the year. With respect to corporate costs, we currently believe that expenses for the remainder of 2025 will approximate $27 million per quarter. Additionally, during 2025, as previously shared, we have and expect to incur approximately $6 million pre-tax per quarter of increased non-service pension costs, largely due to higher amortization of actuarial losses.
These non-cash costs are recorded below operating earnings as part of other income and expense net on our statement of earnings, and we'll have about a $0.09 per diluted share quarterly negative effect on EPS for the balance of 2025. We expect that capital expenditures will approximate $100 million, and we currently anticipate that our full year 2025 effective income tax rate will be in a range of 22-23%. Finally, in 2025, our fiscal year will contain 53 weeks of operating results, with the additional week occurring in the end of the fourth quarter. This occurs every five or six years and historically has not had a significant effect on our full year or fourth quarter total revenues or net earnings. I'll now turn the call back to Nick for his closing thoughts. Nick.
Nick Pinchuk (CEO)
Good day, Aldo. That's our quarter.
It's a period marked by particular and acute uncertainty piling on our already confident support technicians and an abrupt development that set us back for the quarter. Overall sales were down low single digits, 2.4% organically. The OI margin was 21.3%, down but still relatively strong, authored by a gross margin of 50.7%, up 20 basis points despite the lower volume. Again, a gain attenuated by our considered decision to keep investing despite the lower volume. The Tools Group impacted by the continuous airburst of commercial change. Sales and OI margin both afflicted, but C&I and RS&I had bulwark performances. They were pillars of continuing strength supporting the enterprise. C&I successful in critical industries with torque and custom solutions.
Sales down but more than explained by the settling in of the new military leadership and overall registering an OI margin of 15.5%, up 10 basis points for a first quarter record. RS&I, another strong performance. Sales up 3.7% organically with OI margin of 25.7%, up 140 basis points for another first quarter record, driven by progress in software, the power of its databases, and the benefits of RCI gains across that group.
Of course, the fog of tariffs, a challenge that dominates the commercial landscape, and Snap-on is not immune to the effects, but we believe we are advantaged with newly expanded facilities, 15 factories all across America with deep know-how in America to make our major products, with a global sourcing network, 21 plants all across the globe to be agile and optimizing it against whatever tariff array emerges, and with an ability to attract and hold manufacturing associates. These are interesting times. Action-packed with news every day. We are on alert, but we're also confident. Confident in our ability to navigate through the turbulence, confident in the opportunities available in our essential markets and of our position in the fog of tariffs, not immune but advantaged.
Most of all, confident in our product that truly does make work easier, confident in our brand that really does mark the serious professionals, and confident in our people, battle-tested and committed that led us through, that led Snap-on through the great financial recession and the pandemic and came out roaring. We believe that powerful combination will overcome the turbulence and extend our long-term positive trajectory as it has done so many times in the past. Now, before I turn the call over to the operator, I'll speak to our associates and franchisees in these turbulent days. I'll simply say, for your contributions made every day, for your deep dedication to our team, and for your unshakable confidence in our future held fast even in the turbulence, I thank you all. Now I'll turn the call over to the operator. Operator.
Operator (participant)
Thank you. We will now begin the question and answer session. To ask a question, you may press star, then one on your touch-tone phone. If you are using a speakerphone, please pick up your handset before pressing the keys. If at any time your question has been addressed and you would like to withdraw your question, please press star and then two. Your first question today will come from Scott Stember with Roth MKM. Please go ahead.
Scott Stember (Executive Director and Senior Research Analyst)
Good morning and thanks for taking my questions.
Nick Pinchuk (CEO)
Sure, Scott.
Scott Stember (Executive Director and Senior Research Analyst)
Nick, yeah, you were talking about, obviously, it sounds like the shops are still relatively strong, but the confidence for the technicians is falling even further than before. What is the game plan here? Do we see opportunities to further pivot to lower-priced items, or is there something else that needs to be done here?
Nick Pinchuk (CEO)
No, look, I think there's a couple of factors there. One is the pivot worked in the first quarter. It's just I don't think we've seen a place where the hits just kept coming so much. I mean, when the administration itself says there will be pain, this is kind of unprecedented, and you can see it in the consumer sentiment, huh? If you look at those numbers, you see the drop from December is precipitous. We didn't know about that when we were talking to people. We talked to franchisees all over the country, and we heard that in the shops. Really, what it is, is our pivots worked. I talked to some of them that did pretty well. Some of those sets I talked about sold well. Some of the products in like the cart sold well.
What we learned in the period, I think, that's a little bit different, is we were pivoting to what you would call standard short, quicker payback items. What we found, if we tailored things at the bottom end of the bigger ticket items, like carts that simulated a box, like the Solus, which is at the bottom of the diagnostics, we could make hay with those as well. Now, you can't say you made great hay when you're down 6.8% organically, but that's really what we saw in that situation. We are going to keep pivoting because we saw continued traction. It just got overrun. This was an unusual period. I think anybody who says this is an unusual period isn't reading The Wall Street Journal and seeing tariffs in 254 times. That is what we saw.
We think the pivot, we learned some things on how to make the pivot better. We're going to continue to do that, and we'll learn from those things as we adjust. We're pretty confident that this works. If you do not believe it's America, look at outside the United States. Outside the United States, less affected by all this turbulence in recent days, all those businesses went okay.
Scott Stember (Executive Director and Senior Research Analyst)
Got it. If you're looking at RS&I and C&I, RS&I in particular, if you were to back out the intercompany declines, which I assume had a pretty big impact there, what would the organic sales rates in RS&I have been?
Nick Pinchuk (CEO)
It's about. It's a little bit better. I think the organic rate was about 3.7%.
If you backed out the intercompany, you're probably in the four range, something like that, maybe a little bit better in that situation. The big thing about RS&I is it's software-packed these days. Software is up more than the increase in that. The cool thing about it, Scott, is if you look at the RS&I division, almost all of them are up nicely profitability. They are hitting on all cylinders. They really did have a strong quarter. If you look back, it's been strong quarter after strong quarter after strong quarter. I realize some people may have thought it had been done better. They might have sold more. You could have argued that, maybe a percentage point more. You could have thought that. But 25.7%, up 140 basis points, it is a pretty good quarter.
It is driven on the strength of their product and the increasing ability to affect the database. AI is part of that. Part of the reason why the databases are getting better and more effective is we can now translate what the, when you use natural language processing, that will translate what the technicians say about the repairs much more efficaciously into a database without as much time. We are able to move forward in building that database much more effectively. That has helped us in this situation. You can see there that even in diagnostics, we are pretty well positioned against the tariffs. I am not saying we are immune. I have said this many times. We are not immune, but we like where we are.
Scott Stember (Executive Director and Senior Research Analyst)
Got it. Last question before I go back in the queue. It sounds like the military had a pretty profound impact on critical industries.
Was that having anything to do with these DOGE movements, or is there something that we should expect to see in the quarters ahead on the military?
Nick Pinchuk (CEO)
I don't know if it had anything to do with the DOGE. I think it more had to do with people trying to, you got budget cycles in there. I will tell you, Scott, we saw it in the Biden administration. Anytime the administration changes, there's a new sheriff in town, and he won't be pushed around. The thing is, they change the, they start talking about the procurement processes and so on. Slows everything down. After a while, the war fighters kind of say, "The 50-caliber bullets, when they go overhead, I'd like to have better tools.
I don't want to have, I don't want to have somebody else's tools or some tools that are missing." Everybody caves, and it goes back to normal. I think that's really what you're seeing mostly in the situation. I don't think it was associated with DOGE, except for maybe, Scott, the psychology of the DOGE sword waving overhead of all government employees. I don't know how to evaluate that. It was significant. Let's put it this way. Without the military downturn, C&I would have been up.
Scott Stember (Executive Director and Senior Research Analyst)
Gotcha. All right. That's all I have.
Nick Pinchuk (CEO)
The military was enough. Everything else was good.
Scott Stember (Executive Director and Senior Research Analyst)
Awesome. Thank you so much.
Nick Pinchuk (CEO)
Sure.
Operator (participant)
Your next question today will come from David Macgregor with Longbow Research. Please go ahead.
David Macgregor (President and Senior Analyst)
Good morning, everybody.
Nick Pinchuk (CEO)
Morning, David.
David Macgregor (President and Senior Analyst)
Good morning, Nick. I wanted to start off by just asking about truck-level sales comps.
What do you think those look like this quarter in the U.S.?
Nick Pinchuk (CEO)
Say that again. You said truck? You mean the vans?
David Macgregor (President and Senior Analyst)
Yeah. The vans. Sales comps. Yeah. Sales comps off the van.
Nick Pinchuk (CEO)
They're about the same as we saw it to the van, about that same level. It was pretty much matched up in this quarter. It isn't always matched up in a quarter, but this particular quarter was kind of dead on, pretty much the same. So we sold to them about what they sold off the vans. I don't know what you make of that because it always rolls up and down. As you know, because you've followed us for years, it usually varies from period to period. This was one of those that matched up.
David Macgregor (President and Senior Analyst)
You didn't see any destocking at the truck level?
Nick Pinchuk (CEO)
No, we didn't see that.
Now, there could have been some, but I don't think so because the numbers match. Of course, it's an imperfect situation. I will tell you that the franchisees start to get daunted when they hear the technicians talk about these things. The franchisees have a lot more, I would say, cushion to deal with what I said would be an off-the-walls thing, off-the-rails thing. I think really what happened is reflected in the customer sentiment. Maybe some of the franchisees got some of that thing, but there wasn't much destocking.
David Macgregor (President and Senior Analyst)
You talked about negative mix in the tools segment. I'm just trying to reconcile that with the narrative of the week big ticket.
Nick Pinchuk (CEO)
Diagnostics. The low-end diagnostics sold. Remember I said that's why I brought that's actually why I put the Solus thing in there.
One, we learned something about it that we could chip away at the bottom end of the big ticket items and have success if we positioned them and programmed them correctly. Diagnostics, driven by that low-end, the Solus, the speedy one and cheaper, was up in the quarter. Anytime diagnostics is up in a quarter, it's a weight on Tools Group's margins because, as you know, they share the margin with the RS&I group.
David Macgregor (President and Senior Analyst)
Right. What would hand tools have looked like, Nick? Just isolate that category.
Nick Pinchuk (CEO)
Hand tools were not up, but they were certainly not down the way tool storage was. Tool storage was a killer. If you look at the originations, if you look at the originations in the quarter, you can see it, huh?
Coming out of last year, the originations were up 5.8%, were down 5.8%, where they were down almost double in this quarter, 11.7%. I think that says it all.
David Macgregor (President and Senior Analyst)
Okay. How do you respond promotionally to the weaker demand?
Nick Pinchuk (CEO)
Our margins, our gross margins in the tools group were down some, but some of that has to do with the mix I just talked to you about. I mean, certainly across the corporation, I would say the 50.7% gross margin is ample evidence that up 20 basis points when your volume is down like this is ample evidence that you aren't giving it away in pricing. While we do get more active in promotions and we try to make it more attractive to the customer, we're not out there begging for volume. I don't like that. We don't really do that.
David Macgregor (President and Senior Analyst)
Nick, can you talk about the regional kickoff? Can you talk about the regional kickoffs and just were orders up or down this year and by how much?
Nick Pinchuk (CEO)
The regional kickoffs were down this year. I'm not going to give you how much because it was distorted, David. It's hard for us to evaluate because not so great is that several of them were affected by snow. What happened was some of these regions, I was at one. Some of these regions, I'm thinking, some of these regions are pretty big. Snowstorms were bearing down, so people left early. We didn't quite have the full participation that we like to have in those situations. It was hard for us to evaluate.
It was one of the things that was difficult to evaluate what was happening in the quarter in the beginning because we looked at those, and a lot of them were subject to these kinds of one-off-type weather situations. We were not sure what to make of that. When you talk to the techs themselves, you could hear the certainty starting to break through, especially as we started to get later in January when you started to hear after the inauguration. Everybody loved the, our guys loved the administration. Like I said, I think I said last quarter, it feels like they are on Space Mountain. They are afraid they are going to go off the rails.
David Macgregor (President and Senior Analyst)
Right. Last question for me is just on manufacturing capacity. You have obviously done a lot there recently, but I'm also guessing the backlogs are directionally lower now as a consequence of this demand situation. Can you say by how much your backlogs are down and in what product categories you may be seeing the greatest backlog depletion?
Nick Pinchuk (CEO)
Tool storage. Remember we used to have, remember about a, what was it, a year and a half ago, we were up to our eyeballs in tool storage backlog. We have kind of liquidated that. One, we expanded our Algona facility, and the demand has dropped off for the big ticket boxes. Now, we shifted more capacity to lockers and carts and so on, which is, I think, one of the things we have confidence in going forward. We think we are in good shape. I mean, we do not have a lot of backlog everywhere. Certain products are backlogged.
Swivel sockets, for example, have a little bit of backlog. You always have some kinds of things. Generally, the expanded capacity has put us in the right position. That is why we think we are one of the reasons why we think we are advantaged for the tariffs. We are available for American production.
David Macgregor (President and Senior Analyst)
Got it. Thanks very much.
Nick Pinchuk (CEO)
Okay.
Operator (participant)
Your next question today will come from Gary Prestopino with Barrington Research. Please go ahead.
Gary Prestopino (Managing Director)
Good morning, everyone.
Nick Pinchuk (CEO)
Good morning, Gary.
Gary Prestopino (Managing Director)
Nick, you mentioned in your opening comments about the fact that hours worked were down by technicians as well in the quarter. I mean, vehicle repair is generally kind of mission-critical. Could we assume that that was less elective maintenance kind of services? Or what do you attribute that to?
Nick Pinchuk (CEO)
Gary, I put that in because it is a fact. Hours worked in the rolling 12 was up.
Low single digits, but it was up. In the last couple of months, it was down. I want to say 3.3% or something like that. I'm not sure what that means over a couple of months. It does mean, I suppose, that some of the garages aren't relatively white-hot in the last couple of months. In wintertime, that could mean a lot of things. In normal times, lately, those things and lately, all the metrics in vehicle repair have been monotonically improving, improving, improving, improving, improving. I suppose we're kind of sensitized to the idea for a couple of months that there was a drop-off, and it got my attention and some other people's attention. I'm not sure what to make of it as a long-term trend.
You would believe if hours are down, it probably is elective things because you got to have your car. You would think that would be the case. Maybe some people are worried about the off-the-rails scenario. I think one of the things you do see is you see consumer sentiment is down. You see our numbers down. You see other people say, "Well, consumer activity is strong, but I think they're dealing with a different FICO, ZIP code, better credit." The better-heeled people than maybe the mechanics in the garage or the people of work. I think that's part of what we see. Ourselves, Aldo, I think, said in his presentation that our own yield dropped from 17.7% to 17.6%. That really is the people who are originating loans for us are better credit risk than they were before.
It just means that the people at the bottom end are too reticent. They're too afflicted by the uncertainty. Maybe you see some of that in the garages too. I don't know. I think people got to repair the cars. Sooner or later, you got to go in.
Gary Prestopino (Managing Director)
Right. Thank you. Lastly, could you maybe comment on you made a lot of reference to the fact that this whole issue with tariffs coming up could have impacted technician confidence. As you went through your quarter, did things really accelerate on the downside starting in March? One could take away from what you were saying that a lot of the impact in the tools group in particular was due to the uncertainty regarding tariffs, and that kind of cropped up in March. Could you maybe give us a go ahead.
Nick Pinchuk (CEO)
I would say, Gary, for the guys I talked to, it wasn't only tariffs. You come out and you're saying, "Okay, we're going to reduce the government." They start, I have no political, there's no political commentary, but they are laying off people, seems like willy-nilly. In other words, no one knows what, and I think the people of work, even though they truly believe in the trajectory and the goals of the current administration, they're saying, "I don't know how the hell they can change all the government this much and not come out with some screw-ups." You start hearing stuff like Greenland and Panama and Gaza. You hear that stuff. Even before they started talking about the tariffs, people are saying, "Geez, I don't know. What's really happening here?
I'm worried that the world's going to come off the rails." The tariffs came over the top. That is a long way of saying I don't think things changed so much. I wouldn't say it got worse. I think just in general, this was a continual statement that people said, "I don't know." Our people, after all, aren't really affected by the tariffs, but they're kind of saying the broad view, "I don't know if some administration can do this many things, coming up with new ideas every day and not strike out a few times that might screw us up badly." That is the general view. Now, tariffs is a different thing. It more affects the companies. When I say the fog of tariffs, I'm talking about at the Snap-on level or the company level that is dominating everybody. By the way, everybody wants to talk about tariffs.
Anybody you can talk to wants to talk about tariffs. It is a fog that does affect the technicians, and it affects a lot of different things. We just say, "In that fog, as we look forward, we think we're advantaged."
Gary Prestopino (Managing Director)
Okay. Thank you.
Nick Pinchuk (CEO)
Thanks.
Operator (participant)
Your next question today will come from Sherif El-Sabbahy with Bank of America. Please go ahead.
Sherif El-Sabbahy (Research Analyst)
Hi. Good morning.
Nick Pinchuk (CEO)
Good morning, Sherif.
Sherif El-Sabbahy (Research Analyst)
Just within the tools group, are you able to give us a sense of how the demand drop looked throughout the quarter, maybe a bit of cadence, if there's anything that you want to touch base?
Nick Pinchuk (CEO)
There wasn't much cadence. Sherif, it's hard to say. Usually, things are different from week to week. This quarter was more uniform. It wasn't just like I tried to explain to Gary a minute ago.
It started out, we thought, and there was really bad weather. Sometimes you can say, "Okay, it's bad weather." That happens often in the beginning of the year because volumes are always light. You're like that legend, the Princess and the Pea. Any little change will affect you. It kept being weak. When you talk to people, once the administration got in place, they started listening, and they're saying, "Geez, our guy's getting a little overactive," let's say. That is when they started to worry about the world. It's interesting when you talk to the people at work, the technicians and the guys in the factory, they're pretty savvy on this stuff. I think it's because they don't have that much cushion. They're very sensitive to this. We found this all through a lot of different situations.
In some ways, through the canary in the coal mine because that's what we've been talking about, uncertainty for some time.
Sherif El-Sabbahy (Research Analyst)
Understood. We've talked about this dynamic of a shift to quicker payback items for quite a while. Have you seen any shift in the quarter just with regards to the volume? Is that purely just a harder shift towards this trend, or are you seeing lower demand for even some of the quicker payback items as well?
Nick Pinchuk (CEO)
Yeah. We did see some low. Look, I'm just telling you what I think happened from a lot of interviews, windshield surveys, and fortified by the metrics of the consumer sentiment numbers. If you look at it, we had the things I put on the event, like in the script, in the discussions, like Solus, big hit, Synergy paired with the flank-throttle sockets, low-profile, big hit.
Those are low payback items that are big hit. The sturdy tool storage cart, unprecedentedly holding 240 foot-pounds, big hit. You had hits in the lower payback items. We had almost no hits in the big payback items. You could see the progress. I just think, like I said, my assessment, and I think this has played out as some both quantitative and qualitative support from interviews and from the consumer sentiment numbers, is that the effects of the last quarter on the general populace, topped off by the tariffs, were so pervasive that they outran our progress in those things. I think we made progress in our performance. It's just everything else, kind of the level of everything else, kind of dropped. The stuff we focused on seemed to work. It's just the things you can't focus on everything.
Sherif El-Sabbahy (Research Analyst)
Understood. Thank you for the call.
Operator (participant)
Your next question today will come from Luke Junk with Baird. Please go ahead.
Luke Junk (Senior Research Analyst)
Hi. Good morning. Thanks for taking the questions. Nick, wanted to start in terms of how you can play offense in this environment and maybe just a finer point, thinking mostly about the tools group, in terms of marketing, kind of the balance of engaging franchisees versus engaging with technicians directly. In terms of investments, the steady pace of investment, just where we might see you look incrementally in terms of allocating dollars this year.
Nick Pinchuk (CEO)
I think I said it. I think we're kind of encouraged by the idea that we can chip away at the lower end of what you might call our traditional big ticket items.
After you've run the programs after a while on, say, like hand tools and power tools and the other stuff, you kind of got to recycle some. Now we found a new and pretty successful area at the lower end of that, like Solus, which is way cheaper than, say, a Zeus, or a cart, which is way cheaper. I mean, maybe a factor of four cheaper than a big Epic unit. You feel as though that's the kind of thing you can focus on. We are kind of encouraged in that position. Of course, you double down. You try to make sure that more of your new product introductions are in the area where you can have effect. You don't want to spend a lot of time worrying about.
You shift resources from the top-of-the-line diagnostics, from things like some of those are already in the pipeline sometimes, or things like Epic tool storage boxes or anything that's very expensive. You try to hit that sweet spot and put most of your development and promotion sources in those areas. We continue to do that. Particularly when we see this, because what happened in the quarter was the program seemed to work. The other stuff didn't. The general level dropped because of uncertainty. We think we can hit. It's just a matter, that's why I say that stuff overran us. You can think about this. That program's successful. The other products, sort of the underlying base dropped in this quarter beyond where it had been before. What we'll try to do going forward is focus on those in terms of product.
In terms of we've got some ideas around getting to the customers. We're constantly evolving the idea of social media and putting out a little shorter videos, kind of a version of TikTok on the Snap-on network. We're trying to do that. That tends to work for us. We might have done that anyway. I'm not sure, Luke. I mean, that's where we'd allocate some resources.
Luke Junk (Senior Research Analyst)
Got it. We've talked a lot about the technician side in terms of sentiment and just how they're reacting to the environment. What about franchisees and the folks that you're spending time on? I guess I'm thinking especially things like cushion and how they might be thinking about working capital in their businesses, be it inventory, their payables, extended credit, those sorts of things.
Nick Pinchuk (CEO)
Yeah. Look, I think, well, it's down, but it's not bad compared to pre-pandemic levels.
They're the same franchisees. I don't think we quite have, even though this is not something we are cheering about or something like that, it's hardly threatening. It's not enterprise threatening for Snap-on. You can look at the cash flows. I mean, the cash flow is down, but we aren't wringing our hands over it. We're trying to figure out where to get cash. We're not going to step back from anything. Most franchisees are in that situation. Now, there are some in which the idea, like always, down at the bottom end, they may be threatened in this situation. We try to work with them to make sure they can survive this situation. That's another place where we'd spend time to try to make sure that the terminations, the exiting of the franchisees, stay right in the same place.
More or less, for government work, it has stayed in the same place. It's just in this environment, it's a little harder to get people to move because everyone who might be a franchisee is, in fact, somewhat confidence impaired in this situation.
Luke Junk (Senior Research Analyst)
Got it. Thanks, Nick. Appreciate the comments.
Nick Pinchuk (CEO)
Sure.
Operator (participant)
Your final question today will come from Patrick Buckley with Jefferies. Please go ahead.
Patrick Buckley (Senior Equity Research Associate)
Hey, good morning, guys.
Nick Pinchuk (CEO)
Morning.
Patrick Buckley (Senior Equity Research Associate)
Could you talk a little bit more about recent dealer sentiment? I guess Liberation Day and all the auto tariffs were more of a Q2 event. Anything notable to call out there to start the quarter?
Nick Pinchuk (CEO)
What do you mean by dealers? You mean automotive dealers?
Patrick Buckley (Senior Equity Research Associate)
Yeah. Just demand for higher standards.
Nick Pinchuk (CEO)
You mean like semi dealers?
Patrick Buckley (Senior Equity Research Associate)
No, the auto dealers.
Nick Pinchuk (CEO)
Yeah. Like a Chevrolet dealer or a BMW dealer.
Patrick Buckley (Senior Equity Research Associate)
Yeah. Exactly.
Nick Pinchuk (CEO)
Look, I don't think we saw any particular move in that situation. Here's the thing. In our orb, it doesn't really for sure make any difference what happens with new cars. Not for sure. In fact, the dealerships make, you're probably very familiar with this because I think you look at dealers all the time, they make a lot of money on repair and spare parts and used cars. They don't make so much money on new cars. If the new cars, if you have tariff problems in the new cars or the auto companies are spitting up blood all over the idea they got tariffs going back and forth, they can. It doesn't make that much difference, I think, for the dealerships.
Now, the dealerships moan about not having new cars, but I do remember during the pandemic when they did not have new cars, their margins were at an all-time high, I think. I do not think being in the back shop, it affects us so much. When I talk to dealerships, they will moan about the worry that, boy, if they cannot get cars, they are going to lose some. If asymmetrically, they have fewer cars than, say, their competition in the area, they may lose the customer bases that they have worked so hard to build up. There is that kind of thing. I do not think for the near term that makes much difference for our business with them. I do not think they pull back. They might.
Some of them do, but some of them actually think in those environments that they want to invest in repair more because they're not going to get new cars, so they got to get the cash flow out of repair. Sometimes they want to do that in situations. It's unknowable in that situation. I suppose the one caveat to that is, Patrick, is that to the extent we are commissioned by programs with the OEMs, that could be affected by turbulence with new cars and all this noise with the tariffs. We haven't seen it so far, though.
Patrick Buckley (Senior Equity Research Associate)
Got it. Helpful. I guess looking at the tools group, it seemed like international sentiment was a bit higher than U.S. Could you talk about maybe some of the drivers there and the outlook for the international segment there?
Nick Pinchuk (CEO)
Sure. The international segment isn't worried about any of this stuff. They're not worried that Donald Trump's talking about Greenland and Gaza and the Panama Canal. They're not worried, they're really not worried about at the grassroots level. At the grassroots level, I don't think they're worried about the idea that they're going to tariff China 170% or whatever, they're going to 245%. I'm not sure what the number is these days, but I don't think they're so worried about that. It's kind of proportional to where they sit. Canada is probably more worried because the tit for tat with Trudeau and so on, I think, impacted them some. If you look at Australia or the U.K., they're kind of offshore. I don't think we see much of an effect in those places.
I think that's simply because the whole cash-rich, confidence-poor phenomena has always been, from the beginning when we started to see it, a U.S. phenomena.
Patrick Buckley (Senior Equity Research Associate)
Great. That's all from us. Thanks, guys.
Nick Pinchuk (CEO)
Okay.
Operator (participant)
This concludes our question and answer session. I would like to turn the conference back over to Sara Verbsky for any closing remarks.
Sara Verbsky (VP of Investor Relations)
Thank you all for joining us today. A replay of this call will be available shortly on snapon.com. As always, we appreciate your interest in Snap-on. Good day.
Operator (participant)
The conference has now concluded. Thank you for attending today's presentation. You may now disconnect.