WNS - Q3 2024
January 18, 2024
Transcript
Operator (participant)
Good morning, and welcome to the WNS Holdings Fiscal 2024 Q3 earnings conference call. At this time, all participants are in a listen-only mode. After management's prepared remarks, we will conduct a Q&A session, and instructions for how to ask a question will follow at that time. As a reminder, this call is being recorded for replay purposes. Now, I would like to turn the call over to David Mackey, WNS's Executive Vice President of Finance and Head of Investor Relations. Please go ahead.
David Mackey (EVP of Finance and Head of Investor Relations)
Thank you, and welcome to our fiscal 2024 Q3 earnings call. With me today on the call, I have WNS's CEO, Keshav Murugesh, and WNS's CFO, Sanjay Puria. A press release detailing our financial results was issued earlier today. This release is also available on the investor relations section of our website at www.wns.com. Today's remarks will focus on the results for the fiscal Q3, ending December 31, 2023. Some of the matters that will be discussed on today's call are forward-looking. Please keep in mind that these forward-looking statements are subject to known and unknown risks and uncertainties that could cause actual results to differ materially from those expressed or implied by such statements. Such risks and uncertainties include, but are not limited to, those factors set forth in the company's Form 20-F.
This document is also available on the company website. During today's call, management will reference certain non-GAAP financial measures, which we believe provide useful information for investors. Reconciliations of these non-GAAP financial measures to GAAP results can be found in the press release issued earlier today. Some of the non-GAAP financial measures management will discuss are defined as follows: Net revenue is defined as revenue less repair payments. Adjusted operating margin is defined as operating margin, excluding amortization of intangible assets, share-based compensation, acquisition-related expenses or benefits, and goodwill impairment. Adjusted net income, or ANI, is defined as profit, excluding amortization of intangible assets, share-based compensation, acquisition-related expenses or benefits, goodwill impairment, and all associated taxes. These terms will be used throughout the call. I would now like to turn the call over to WNS's CEO, Keshav Murugesh. Keshav?
Keshav Murugesh (Group CEO)
Thank you, David, and good morning, everyone. In the Q3, WNS's financial results were largely in line with our expectations. The company posted third-quarter net revenue of $315.9 billion, representing a year-over-year increase of 7.8% on a reported basis and 5.9% constant currency. Sequentially, net revenue decreased by 2.8% on a reported basis and 2.3% on a constant currency basis after adjusting for foreign exchange. As discussed last quarter, the sequential reduction was largely the result of the delivery transition for a large internet-based procurement client from on-site to offshore, lower travel volumes, and softness in our project-based revenues. Overall, from a demand and booked revenue perspective, there were no major changes or surprises during the Q3. Travel volumes reduced during the quarter, particularly for domestic online travel.
While some of this is a function of normal seasonality, we also saw volume reductions in our high-end business-to-business customer experience portfolio. This, we believe, is attributable to both corporate travel spending and client-specific issues. In addition, demand for WNS's project-based work, including hyperautomation, procurement, and analytics projects, saw a slight sequential decline in Q3 and remains below the levels expected in a healthy macro environment. While certain volumes and project work have reduced, demand for our core process management initiatives continues to be healthy, driven by client requirements for process automation as well as cost reduction. Our new business pipeline is robust, and clients are moving forward with strategic initiatives. During the Q3, WNS added eight new logos and expanded 32 existing relationships.
I'm also excited to announce that we have now received a commitment from our large insurance captive relationship to proceed with a portion of the phase two plan. This new process is expected to begin ramping later this quarter. Today, I would like to provide you with a brief update on our AI as well as GenAI initiatives. As we continue to build, design, implement solutions for our clients leveraging these technologies, the pipeline of GenAI use cases continues to expand across our verticals as well as service offerings. We are making steady progress moving these initiatives forward with our clients. Today, we have secured client commitments for GenAI implementations, which span verticals including insurance, retail, CPG, travel, shipping, and logistics, as well as banking and financial services, and represent horizontals such as procurement, operations, and customer experience.
In some of these examples, the GenAI solution has been a catalyst for new business, including customer additions and expansions of existing relationships. For others, GenAI is helping transform the existing book of business and drive improvements that previous solutions were unable to deliver. At WNS, our approach continues to focus on combining our deep industry expertise with GenAI to deliver enhanced levels of performance, accuracy, and business value, which is differentiated and superior to generic GenAI applications. For example, we currently have an existing client implementation leveraging a powerful new WNS proprietary GenAI decision support engine, which enables our agents to quickly access relevant information from large numbers of complex, lengthy documents, and then synthesize and summarize the results to meet the customer's requirements.
The solution, which combines the power of human intelligence as well as artificial intelligence, is positively impacting most key business metrics, including reduced handling times, improved accuracy, and higher first call resolution rates. For our clients, this is improving end user satisfaction and increasing revenue retention. For WNS, the solution is revenue neutral, margin accretive, and resulting in additional process management opportunities. We are also excited to highlight that this GenAI decision in engine is scalable both horizontally as well as vertically across WNS. We are also pleased to announce that we are now upgrading Malkom, our intelligent automation platform, for the shipping and logistics industry with GenAI capabilities. The updated version, now called Malkom AI, is designed to revolutionize the way incoming data sources, including emails, chats, messaging, web portals, and EDI, are processed.
The enhanced platform enables cognitive extraction and routing of data to specific workflows within our client's organization, as well as IT systems, which in turn either fully automates these workflows or flags them for human validation and completion as is needed. Malkom.ai now demonstrates WNS's capability to leverage deep industry expertise and process knowledge in the application of GenAI and other cutting-edge technologies. Overall, we continue to see GenAI as a long-term catalyst for our business. Our investments in this, as well as other new technologies, and our ability to combine these powerful tools with domain, people, and process, is generating increased interest from both existing clients as well as new prospects. These tools are enabling WNS to improve both the quantity and quality of client discussions, with the focus increasingly shifting toward innovation, competitive positioning, as well as value creation.
In addition, we are seeing strong willingness from these clients to share in the financial and operational benefits of our GenAI solutions. So for WNS, this includes the ability to capture new revenue streams, shift the commercials from FTE-based models to stickier, higher value managed services and outcome-based models, as well as improved margins. I would also like to share with you some activities in progress designed to help improve our ability to compete for capital. In our press release issued earlier today, WNS announced that we have formally transitioned the company to 3 global headquarter locations in New York, London, as well as Mumbai. This change supports the company's decentralization of senior leadership as well as decision-making, as highlighted by our organizational structure change announced in April 2023.
These headquarters additions also reflect the company's financial and operational evolution over the past 25 years, including the geographic diversification of our revenue mix as well as delivery footprint. In addition, earlier this week, WNS's board of directors granted approval for the company to move forward with plans to convert our ADSs to ordinary shares. The company intends to complete this exercise prior to the end of fiscal Q1 2025. The WNS board has also granted approval, and the company intends to voluntarily shift from foreign private issuer status, reporting under IFRS, to domestic filer status, reporting under US GAAP. This change is expected to be implemented prior to the end of fiscal Q2 2025. The company believes these actions are in the long-term best interest of all WNS stakeholders.
Key objectives include improved access to capital through the ability to participate in the U.S. indexes and additional active investment funds, reduced share price volatility, as well as enhanced governance. In summary, despite the challenging macro environment and certain non-recurring headwinds in fiscal 2024, WNS now enters Q4 with more than 99% visibility to double-digit full-year revenue growth, and continues to expect industry leading, leading stable margins for fiscal 2024. We also remain optimistic that our growing pipeline for core automation, as well as cost reduction-based services and reducing headwinds, set the company up for accelerated growth in fiscal 2025. WNS continues to invest in technology, analytics, and domain to ensure our competitive differentiation remains intact, enabling the company to deliver long-term, sustainable value for every one of our key stakeholders.
I would now like to turn the call over to our CFO, Sanjay Puria, to further discuss our results as well as outlook. Sanjay?
Sanjay Puria (CFO)
Thank you, Keshav. In the fiscal Q3, WNS net revenue came in at $315.9 million, up 7.8% from $292.9 million posted in the same quarter of last year, and up 5.9% on a constant currency basis. Sequentially, net revenue decreased by 2.8% on a reported basis and 2.3% on a constant currency basis. The sequential revenue reduction was driven by the offshore delivery transition of a large internet account, volume reductions with certain clients, primarily in OTA travel and weakness in discretionary project-based revenues. This headwind was partially offset by strong client demand for cost reduction focus initiatives. In the Q3, WNS recorded $500,000 of short-term revenue at company average margin.
Adjusted operating margin in quarter three was 20.6%, as compared to 21.9% reported in the same quarter of fiscal 2023, and 22.4% last quarter. Year-over-year, adjusted operating margins were pressured by annual wage increases and return to office costs. These headwinds were partially offset by improved productivity and favorable currency movements. Sequentially, margins decreased as a result of wage increases, higher SG&A expenses, driven by quarter two provision reversals for performance incentives and bad debt, and lower revenue. The company's net other income expense was $2.8 million of net expense in the Q3, as compared to $1.2 million of net expense reported in quarter three of fiscal 2023, and $3.6 million of net expense last quarter.
Year-over-year, net interest expense increased due to higher debt levels and lower cash balances, driven by our acquisitions and share repurchases. Sequentially, the favorable variance was a result of interest income on tax refunds, sale of assets, and slightly lower interest expense. WNS effective tax rate for quarter three came in at 6.6%, as compared to 19.8% last year and 22% last quarter. In the fiscal Q3, we realized a one-time tax benefit of $9.5 million, resulting from the reversal of a deferred tax liability on intangibles. Both year-over-year and sequentially, other changes in our effective tax rate were the result of shifts in our geographical profit mix and changes to the mix of work delivered from tax incentive facilities.
The company's adjusted net income for quarter three was $58.2 million, compared with $50.6 million in the same quarter of fiscal 2023, and $54.1 million last quarter. Adjusted diluted earnings were $0.118 per share in quarter three, up 18% versus $1.01 in the Q3 of last year, and up 9% from $1.09 last quarter. As of December 31, 2023, WNS's balances in cash and investments totaled $260.4 million and the company had $177.4 million in debt. In the Q3, WNS generated $73.7 million of cash from operating activities, incurred $10.3 million in capital expenditures, and made debt repayments of $20.2 million.
The company also repurchased 1 million shares of stock at an average price of $58.13, which impacted quarter three cash by $58.1 million. Our revised full year guidance assumes WNS will continue with our share repurchase program in the upcoming fiscal Q4. DSO in the Q3 came in at 35 days, as compared to 34 days reported in quarter three of last year and 35 days last quarter. With respect to other key operating metrics, total headcount at the end of the quarter was 60,652, and our attrition rate in the Q3 was 29%, as compared to 28% reported in quarter three of last year and 30% in the previous quarter.
We expect attrition to average in the low to mid-30% range, but the rate could remain volatile quarter to quarter in the current environment. Real seat capacity at the end of quarter three increased to 40,658, and WNS averaged 69% work from office during the quarter. In our press release issued earlier today, WNS provided our revised full year guidance for fiscal 2024. Based on the company's current visibility levels, we expect net revenue to be in the range of $1.27 billion-$1.292 billion, representing year-over-year growth of 9%-11% on both reported and constant currency basis.
The top line projection assumes an average GBP to USD exchange rate of 1.27 for the remainder of the FY, and we currently have over 99% visibility to the midpoint of the range. Full year adjusted net income for fiscal 2024 is expected to be in the range of $212 million-$218 million, based on an 83.3 INR to USD exchange rate for the remainder of fiscal 2024. This implies adjusted EPS of $4.27-$4.39, assuming a diluted share count of approximately 49.6 million shares. With respect to capital expenditures, WNS currently expects a requirement for fiscal 2024 to be up to $60 million. We'll now open the call for questions. Operator?
Operator (participant)
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, if you wish to ask a question at this time, please press star one one on your telephone and wait for your name to be announced. If your question has been answered or you wish to remove yourself from the queue, please press star one one again. In the interest of the time and to enable everyone on the call to participate, please limit your queries to one question and one follow-up. Please stand by while we compile the Q&A roster. The first question comes from Surinder Thind with Jefferies. Your line is now open.
Surinder Thind (Equity Research Analyst)
Thank you. Good morning. I'd like to start with a question on just demand environment, and more specifically, just the volume aspect of the business. Can you maybe talk a little bit about how client volumes have evolved relative to expectations maybe six months ago, when we first started seeing signals of clients wanting to slow down? And then, what are the current client conversations as we look forward maybe six months at this point?
David Mackey (EVP of Finance and Head of Investor Relations)
Sure, Surinder. So I think if you look across the last couple of quarters, what we've seen and what we had included in our guidance was expectations from our clients, projections from our clients, and for certain clients, especially in the travel space, commitments from these clients to reducing volumes. Historically, when we've seen that a trend from customers, they've proven to be extremely conservative. What we've seen over the last couple of quarters is that those numbers have come in much closer to their projections and commitments than what we've seen in the past. So as a result, we have not been able to recognize upside relative to volume and relative to our forecast and guidance during that period. So essentially, at the end of the day, the volume projections that they had provided us with proved to be accurate.
I think the good news and the upside is, as we look forward into the Q4, we are not seeing clients continuing to drop those forecasts and those projections. So our hope, at least at this point, is that the volumes have stabilized at these levels, and then as we move across into fiscal 2025, we, we have upside if we see some macro, some macro benefits out there.
Keshav Murugesh (Group CEO)
And I'd just add that while, you know, that was a great explanation on the volumes of the current business, the other fact to also mention here is that we continue to see a lot of interest in terms of existing clients as well as new prospects, continue to have very positive discussions in terms of longer-term strategic plans for both transformation, cost saving, as well as implementation of some of the GenAI tools that we-- that I spoke about earlier. So I think right now it's a mixed bag, but it is, you know, it looks exactly like what we said it was likely to be as of last quarter.
Surinder Thind (Equity Research Analyst)
That's helpful. And then as a follow-up, when we think about your AI strategy, the platforms, the tools, the technologies that you wanna build, the question here is: How truly differentiated can you build some of those products? And how bespoke is that to the client solutions that you build, and maybe how much is reusable? And then I guess, overall, do you have to accelerate spend to, I guess, you know, win the arms race for AI here? How do we think about all of that dynamic?
Keshav Murugesh (Group CEO)
I think I'll take a stab at that answer first. So first and foremost, I think we are very clear that this is a movement that will only keep gaining traction, and our job right now is to make sure that our clients see us as a responsible partner, leading them in this charge. Though many of them may not yet be completely ready to, you know, get on this bandwagon, because some of the, you know, current stresses that they're seeing are more focused around profitability, volumes, things like that.
So from our point of view, giving them the comfort that we are training our people, we've got the right partnerships in place, we have invested very strongly in the tools, and the required technologies, and that some of the solutions that they are used to seeing from WNS are all being enabled through AI and GenAI tools, is something that is being seen as very positively. The second thing that they're all seeing very positively is the intent from WNS to look at our core business, understand which are the areas that actually need faster implementation of some of these tools, so that we are more partner-like to our clients.
And even if it means, you know, cannibalization of short-term revenue for us, you know, they have understood the intent from a WNS point of view is to do that in order to build very strong, long-term, sustainable relationships with them. So if you look at the current stage, it is all about building out completely new tools, creating these partnerships, and enabling existing tools through GenAI. In many cases, we use the base tool that is available and then create something which is bespoke for a particular client. But most often, we also have the ability to reuse quite a few of these tools. So when we are talking about some of these branded tools, you know, that I spoke about earlier, our ability to use them across multiple clients while incurring a one-time cost at the start is high.
Therefore, our ability to have, you know, high-quality relations, relationships or discussions with our clients in terms of how to share that cost or the opportunity in the first case, is also built on trust as opposed to just plain opportunity.
David Mackey (EVP of Finance and Head of Investor Relations)
And I think just-
Surinder Thind (Equity Research Analyst)
Thank you.
David Mackey (EVP of Finance and Head of Investor Relations)
Just to add to what Keshav says, at the end of the day, clients are looking for digital transformation. And the reality is that GenAI, as a tool, is only one component of what they're looking for. So we continue to believe that our key differentiator is domain expertise, the ability to understand the client's business, understand the client's problem, and leverage process, leverage people, leverage technology, whatever the technology might be, to solve that problem. And to Keshav's point, certainly, certain components of that solution have to be customized and proprietary to that specific client. But at the same time, we're also creating reusable components that we can bring across the entire portfolio. So I think the approach actually works well and plays into the strength of where this company has made our investments over the last 10, 15 years.
Surinder Thind (Equity Research Analyst)
Thank you. That's very helpful.
Operator (participant)
Please stand by for our next question. The next question comes from Brian Bergin with TD Cowen. Your line is now open.
Bryan Bergin (Managing Director, Equity Research)
Hi, good morning. Good evening. Thank you. First one I have, just as it relates to the share class conversion, the voluntary filer status shift, are there any notable financial implications from these items to be aware of as you transition next year? Just really anything to be aware of around maybe tax structure, and from an accounting change, anything dramatically different versus potentially just the hedges up top moving?
Keshav Murugesh (Group CEO)
No, so there are no financial implications, you know, specifically for moving from ADS to, you know, the common stock over there. You know, even from a tax structuring or, you know, the structure remains the same. It is just from, you know, the access of the capital, you know, and reduce the volatility from a share volume perspective. Those are the prime objectives. But, you know, primarily, you know, no financial.
David Mackey (EVP of Finance and Head of Investor Relations)
There will be changes to some of the financial metrics as we transition from IFRS to US GAAP, based on exactly what you were referring to, you know, how the two different standards treat certain types of transactions and certain types of costs. But the reality is, to Sanjay's point, there should be no change from the conversion from ADSs to ordinary shares.
Bryan Bergin (Managing Director, Equity Research)
Okay, very good. And then as it relates to the headquarters additions and the growing global diversification, can you just discuss the margin implications from these changes? Do you have any difference in view on the medium-term potential in adjusted operating margin?
David Mackey (EVP of Finance and Head of Investor Relations)
They're already embedded in our structure. There should be no change as a result of anything that we've discussed today relative to the approach to capital access.
Bryan Bergin (Managing Director, Equity Research)
Great, thank you.
David Mackey (EVP of Finance and Head of Investor Relations)
Thanks, Brian.
Operator (participant)
Please stand by for the next question. The next question comes from Spencer LeBoeuf with Wedbush Securities. Your line is open.
Moshe Katri (Managing Director, Equity Research)
Hey, guys. Can you hear me?
David Mackey (EVP of Finance and Head of Investor Relations)
Yes, we can hear you now.
Moshe Katri (Managing Director, Equity Research)
Dave, it's Moshe Katri from Wedbush. The question, can we get an update on the captive client, specifically the delays or the pause that we heard about last week? And then I have another follow-up. Thanks.
Sanjay Puria (CFO)
You know, so, as in the remarks what we mentioned, that, you know, last quarter, there was a delay over there. But, you know, the good news as we move forward, we already got a commitment of the portion of the phase 2, you know, from that client. And, you know, we'll be starting the delivery from the later part of the quarter 4. And as we move forward to discussions are further on for the balance portion of the phase 2, you know, which may be there, you know, as a part for the next 12 months.
David Mackey (EVP of Finance and Head of Investor Relations)
I think just to reiterate what Sanjay is saying, you know, obviously, a lot of concern and consternation out there about the delay. And, you know, as the company had said last quarter, we still believe that it was a question of when, not if, we were gonna get this piece of business. All the indications from the client were that they were going to continue to move forward with this process addition, and it was nice to see that, you know, they're taking steps in that direction, formal steps.
Sanjay Puria (CFO)
Just to remind, you know, again, that this is a part of the overall commitment from the client. So, you know, as Dave mentioned, it's all about when, but it need to happen during the tenure of the contract.
Keshav Murugesh (Group CEO)
I just want to mention one thing, that, you know, some of these, you know, conversations are mostly about transformation as well as cost saving. Now, based on how well prepared a client may be on some of these larger initiatives, they can only delay that much. Thereafter, based on the macros, based on the business need, you know, it's just smart for, you know, customers to actually move ahead with these journeys.
So I just want to mention again that while, you know, for the last one or two quarters we've saw these delays, we are also quite confident that not only will they come back in terms of phase two and of this thing, of this particular transformation, but the opportunity for WNS to go deeper into many more areas with this client is very high over the next few quarters.
Moshe Katri (Managing Director, Equity Research)
Okay. So, so that's definitely a positive development. So there is a go-ahead. Some of that revenue generation will be recognized towards the end of Q4, and then there's phase two that gets recognized in fiscal 2025. Is that the right way of looking at it?
Sanjay Puria (CFO)
You're absolutely right. It's going to be minimal revenue during this financial year. But you know, as we transition, it's going to be the following year of FY 2025 where the bulk of the revenue will start recognized.
David Mackey (EVP of Finance and Head of Investor Relations)
And the hope
Moshe Katri (Managing Director, Equity Research)
Can you hear me now?
David Mackey (EVP of Finance and Head of Investor Relations)
And the hope, I'm sorry, Moshe. And the hope also is that they continue to give us the additional components of phase two as we move throughout fiscal 2025. That also contributes above and beyond what we've been awarded at this point.
Moshe Katri (Managing Director, Equity Research)
Okay. Sorry, just to go back to this, can you remind us what was the—what is the potential run rate from this specific captive client?
David Mackey (EVP of Finance and Head of Investor Relations)
We talked about last quarter the delay in pushing that revenue out of our fiscal 2024 financials, costing the company almost 2% of revenue.
Moshe Katri (Managing Director, Equity Research)
That's been, some of it is getting pushed out to fiscal 25?
David Mackey (EVP of Finance and Head of Investor Relations)
Well, in our last guidance, all of it was pushed out. The majority of it is still gonna be pushed out because we're not recognizing anything until later in this fiscal Q4. But the good news is, because we're starting in the fiscal Q4, we should have a higher run rate of revenue in fiscal 25 from this, from this award.
Sanjay Puria (CFO)
So Moshe, can I just, you know, help you with that? That as Dave mentioned, it was a 2%, which got impacted for this FY. Out of that, what have -- we have been awarded is 25% of that, now, and which, is completely awarded and which we'll be able to recognize in FY 2025. But at the same time, the balance 75%, still there's an opportunity, which we are working, which would help us, during the, you know, during the next FY.
Moshe Katri (Managing Director, Equity Research)
Okay, great. Final question. Since May of last year, again, someone decided that WNS is exclusively going to get impacted by GenAI, right? Any indication that any of those, any of that prophecy is materialized in terms of your revenue base, cannibalization, et cetera, just to be clear? Thanks.
Keshav Murugesh (Group CEO)
Not at all. Actually, from our point of view, voluntarily, like I said earlier, wherever we think a client will benefit by, you know, embracing GenAI, even if they are not ready, we are going in, having those conversations, building deep connections with our clients, and building out plans that will, you know, help us grow net of the cannibalization, at a level that the industry expects.
David Mackey (EVP of Finance and Head of Investor Relations)
But to be very clear, Moshe, in terms of what we've seen to date and what we've embedded into this guidance, there has been zero negative impact to our revenue from GenAI.
Operator (participant)
Thank you. Please stand by for the next question. The next question comes from Maggie Nolan with William Blair. Your line is open.
Maggie Nolan (Partner, Research Analyst)
Hi, thank you, and congratulations on all the developments. I wanted to ask about the project-based work and whether you have any changes in expectations, over the next couple of quarters, just given that clients are starting to finalize their budgets for calendar 2024.
David Mackey (EVP of Finance and Head of Investor Relations)
Sure. I'll take that, Maggie. I think, you know, as we talked about, we did see that some of the softness that was projected and committed from clients did materialize here in the Q3. The good news, again, is that when you look at the Q4 numbers, we're not seeing a further decline in that expected project revenue. Again, it doesn't mean that it couldn't happen, but at this point in time, it's our belief that the project run rate has somewhat stabilized here. And, you know, to the extent that we don't take another leg down in the macro or we don't see a meaningful pickup in the macro, this is probably going to be the sustainable level for project-based work for us.
Keshav Murugesh (Group CEO)
You know, maybe we'll have a more color because, you know, now January is a time where, you know, the client's budgets will start getting frozen for the next FY. I know that some discussions have already started based on that, so we'll be able to maybe have a better color, you know, when we provide updates for the next quarter.
Maggie Nolan (Partner, Research Analyst)
Thank you. And then you—I mean, you have a great track record of posting strong margins, and you continue to do so, but there are a lot of moving parts with volumes and project-based work, and you mentioned this new product that's margin accretive. So I'm hoping you could maybe help us think through some of the puts and takes on margins even into fiscal 2025.
Keshav Murugesh (Group CEO)
You know, so, you know, you're right, you know, from those moving parts perspective, but there's a lot of variable costs associated from a business perspective. And, you know, though volume keeps on moving up or down quarter-over-quarter, and accordingly, we are able to manage those costs associated with that due to the variability. So accordingly, we believe that, you know, as we keep on investing into our business, as we keep on seeing some of the volatility in the volume, you know, about 20% margin, operating margin, what we have been consistently delivering, and we expect to continue with that.
David Mackey (EVP of Finance and Head of Investor Relations)
I would just reiterate what Sanjay said, that, you know, we do continue to believe that these margins are stable, that there will continue to be puts and takes in terms of wage increases and the ability to improve margins as we continue to transition this business towards transaction outcome, subscription-based models, and then deliver higher value for our customers in those models. So, the expectation from the company continues to be, you know, that at 20%-22% range for adjusted operating margin moving forward.
Maggie Nolan (Partner, Research Analyst)
Perfect. Thank you.
David Mackey (EVP of Finance and Head of Investor Relations)
Thank you.
Operator (participant)
Please stand by for the next question. The next question comes from Nate Svensson with Deutsche Bank. Your line is open.
Nate Svensson (Senior Equity Research Analyst)
Hi, guys. Thanks for the question. I wanted to touch base on, on something that came up in the prepared remarks, and it's about the potential for a re-acceleration in revenue growth in fiscal 2025. So I think a few of the questions earlier have gotten at this point, whether it's the insurance ramp-up next year or expectations for project-based work, but just wanted to hear about your confidence or your visibility into that potential re-acceleration next year, particularly given volumes and, and short-term work is, you know, stable to slightly down, in this environment. Thanks.
Keshav Murugesh (Group CEO)
So, I'll take that. So I think the first thing is, we continue to be positive about the potential for growth in our business, right? We think that the macros, while they are causing, you know, pressure at this point in time and have caused pressure probably this whole year, and will continue to be weak as we are, you know, hearing from the economists for the next, you know, few quarters, will also push customers to want to now start taking decisions that go beyond just the core business transformation agenda and go much more into cost saving in order to, you know, in order to be smart about how they are, you know, running their businesses.
The second thing is our, our change that we made in terms of our, our org structure has now been digested well, has been understood well by the market, and that is actually now starting to evoke much higher quality and even better conversations, with a lot of prospects, as well as our existing, you know, customers. We actually think, over a period of time, that will also start evoking, you know higher benefits, you know, for the company. The third thing I will say is that with other changes that we made around our sales focus, farming focus, as well as creating specific track teams to go after some of these things, we are actually seeing, you know, higher quality conversations on larger size deals, which again, we believe may take time, to actually, see decisions.
But I see the number of deals entering the pipeline, the quality of the discussions we are having, and the level of connects that we are now generating around these deals, will actually deliver a very strong pipeline, you know, for growth longer term. And therefore, from my point of view, I continue to see the business being very positive. I continue to see, you know, long-term tailwinds. I continue to see the BPM industry being under-penetrated, and huge potential for us to go after the white spaces that need penetration. And with the change in our org structure, our clients and prospects are interacting with us in a far superior way than we saw even two years ago.
David Mackey (EVP of Finance and Head of Investor Relations)
The other thing I would add to Keshav's comments, Nate, is remember that the biggest challenge that we have this year relative to growth are the unusual headwinds that we have in our business. To the extent that, you know, we've got 5, 6, 7% headwind to our business, that has nothing to do with macro, that has nothing to do with projects, that has nothing to do with volume, right? To the extent that these are unusual types of things, as long as demand stays healthy for our core services, the ability to accelerate growth should clearly be there for us in fiscal 2025.
Nate Svensson (Senior Equity Research Analyst)
Great. That's, that's super helpful color. I really appreciate the detailed answer. I guess for my follow-up, can you share what the inorganic impact was in the quarter, particularly, versus what your expectations had been? The reason I ask is I know Vuram had been highly tied to short term for the discretionary project work, and you had the reversal of the contingent considerations last quarter. So I was just wondering if we get an update on how OptiBuy and Smart Cube have been performing. Thanks.
David Mackey (EVP of Finance and Head of Investor Relations)
I mean, overall, obviously, they're performing below expectations relative to when we purchased these assets, but they do continue to perform above company average in terms of their contribution. So, you know, you don't wanna, don't wanna mislead from the standpoint of saying that these aren't healthy and well-performing assets. But in terms of the contribution on a year-over-year basis from to revenue growth, you're looking at about 2, a little over 2% year-over-year.
Nate Svensson (Senior Equity Research Analyst)
Very helpful. Appreciate the answers.
Operator (participant)
Please stand by for the next question. The next question comes from Kyle Peterson with Needham. Your line is now open.
Kyle Peterson (Principal, Equity Research)
Great. Thanks, guys. This is Kyle Peterson on for Mayong. You know, want to start off here, you know, just on some of the quick takes of, you know, what you guys are seeing. You know, I get there's obviously been some macro challenges over the last, you know, couple quarters, but, you know, you guys do help, you know, streamline operations, reduce costs. So just wanted to see if you guys could walk through on how some of those client conversations are going and, you know, what's the impact and focus on questions between, you know, some of the discretionary spend versus, you know, cost savings and efficiency initiatives?
David Mackey (EVP of Finance and Head of Investor Relations)
Sure, Kyle. I think overall, and Keshav alluded to it in his prepared remarks, right? I mean, there are three components to the revenue portfolio, in terms of what we're seeing. One is those core cost reduction, automation, transformation requirements that clients have. The second are the discretionary projects, where, by definition, it's got a fixed start and a fixed end, and clients need to pay up front for the benefit, as opposed to paying as they go for the benefits that they receive. And then the third is volume, which is essentially the number of transactions that are getting pushed through the processes that we already own and manage. And obviously, as we've talked about, some of it's specific to certain verticals and some of it's specific to certain processes.
We've seen pressure from both a discretionary spend perspective, as well as from a volume perspective in certain verticals and sub verticals. That being said, the core business, which for us represents almost 90% of our total, where what we're driving for the client is tangible business benefit, whether that's cost reduction, whether that's revenue generation, whether that's loss leakage prevention, right? That piece of our business remains extremely healthy. That's really been the driver for the upside this year. And again, the reason that growth from this company is below normal is more about the headwinds to our business than the demand for our services.
Kyle Peterson (Principal, Equity Research)
Great. That's very helpful. And then, you know, just a follow-up on the M&A pipeline. I think you guys have made a couple acquisitions here in the last few years, but how are you guys thinking about, you know, potential targets, how conversations are going, and where valuations stand in this environment?
Keshav Murugesh (Group CEO)
So I'll just mention that, you know, we continue to be, you know, we continue to look at, you know, assets in chosen areas that we are interested in. Like we had said before, you know, it's all about capability creation. So the core around M&A really is, if there is some new capability that we can, you know, bring in, that would be really our focus. Valuations, we believe, have come very much under control over the past, you know, 2 years or so, and therefore, our ability to be productive and constructive in this area is high.
We do constantly look at a number of some of these assets, starting from small to mid-sized, to sometimes even, you know, much larger sized assets also, in order to make sure that our team is scanning the market very carefully and then giving us, you know, the, the insights to make a decision. Having said that, you know, we will, we will, you know, not do anything that doesn't make businesses, you know, for us. So the timing of any future M&A activities and stuff like that, can't comment on, but I can only tell you that we are being very constructive.
Sanjay Puria (CFO)
You know, and just, I'll just add over there that, you know, there are multiple of those, capability acquisitions, what we, focus and target upon are at various stages of, you know, discussion at this stage. And in a specific point from a valuation perspective, in fact, you know, the earlier valuations were actually over high, and now it has come to a, a proper, reasonable level, you know, and that's what we are seeing in various of our discussions with various of the targets, which are at a different, which are at a different stage.
David Mackey (EVP of Finance and Head of Investor Relations)
That being said, Kyle, the approach from the company remains the same. We're gonna be opportunistic. We're gonna find assets that have the right capability, that are the right cultural fit, and that are at the right price. And if those opportunities aren't available in the market, we're not gonna do acquisitions.
Moshe Katri (Managing Director, Equity Research)
Got it. It's great color. Thanks, guys.
Operator (participant)
Please stand by for the next question. The next question comes from Mina Mafi with JP Morgan. Your line is open.
Mina Mafi (Equity Research Analyst)
Hi, this is Mina on for Puneet Jain. I just have two quick questions on GenAI. The first is that you mentioned that GenAI is drawing in new clients as well as expanding your market share of existing. Are these new clients first-time outsourcers or competitive takeaways, and are these projects still more in the discovery stage or getting into implementation?
Keshav Murugesh (Group CEO)
I think that's a great question because one of the things that we are seeing is, with the existing, you know, portfolio, our ability to have these conversations obviously is high, but because they're used to doing things in a particular way, they take a little longer to climb on the bandwagon of GenAI, because there has to be a significant change management process that has to be implemented, even with an existing process. But with a lot of the first-time outsourcers with whom we are having lots of these conversations, their ability to get into this model upfront is much higher. And that's where, you know, we are having.
We are quite excited about the fact that while we are implementing and experimenting with a lot of these solutions with our existing clients, the ability to take them into some of these new conversations and lead with GenAI solutions is also very high. I can tell you that at this point in time, the pipeline of, you know, sales is very strong with some of these first-time outsourcers, and in many of them, it is GenAI, you know, led solutions and some of the platform-based solutions that I spoke about, where the core of the discussion is happening around.
Mina Mafi (Equity Research Analyst)
Great. Thank you. My other question was just that you guys have stated you expect a structurally higher margin profile as you guys are shifting more towards outsourcing, and have also mentioned that these GenAI projects are coming in at higher margins. How much higher are the GenAI projects, and is it significant enough to also structurally, I guess, shift your margin profile and raise it?
David Mackey (EVP of Finance and Head of Investor Relations)
At this point in time, Mina, when you look at the quantum of work that's been shifted to GenAI, it's extremely small, right? We've talked about a handful of very small projects that we've implemented and parts of processes that we've leveraged these tools on for existing clients at this point in time. So this is gonna be an evolution like everything else. I think the opportunity that tools like GenAI presents and the need for digital transformation presents is the ability to shift clients from FTE models to non-FTE models. And we know that when we're able to move to either a transaction or an outcome or a subscription-based model, the margin levers that we as a company have at our disposal are significantly higher. So what we wanna do is we wanna lock in that customer.
We wanna take ownership and accountability for results. We wanna move to a model where we take ownership and accountability for those results, and therefore, make the relationship stickier, but at the same time, give us multiple margin levers to be able to drive, improvement. What we see in our current portfolio is that the margins on the non-FCE component of our business are meaningfully higher than the FTE component. So that, that's really where the opportunity for margin expansion in the space comes from. It is the evolution to higher value services and to higher value models to deliver those services. And GenAI is just one component of that, but we do believe it has the potential to help serve as a catalyst for that move.
Mina Mafi (Equity Research Analyst)
Got it. Thank you.
David Mackey (EVP of Finance and Head of Investor Relations)
Thank you.
Operator (participant)
Please stand by for the next question. The next question comes from Ashwin Shirvaikar with Citi. Your line is now open.
Ashwin Shirvaikar (Managing Director, Equity Research)
Thank you. And let me start with saying Happy New Year. It's the first time I'm speaking with you guys this year.
Keshav Murugesh (Group CEO)
Thank you.
Ashwin Shirvaikar (Managing Director, Equity Research)
Congratulations on the good quarter and the rapid resolution that you have with the client. Let me just ask about the ADS to general shares transition, and apologies if I've misinterpreted this, but have you sized the impact of things like the ability to now be on an index once you complete the process, the number of incremental investors who can now look at WNS that didn't used to be able to before? You know, that might have been what you meant by access to capital, but you know, in terms of just investor flows, I feel like that can be you know, very significant levels of buying. But have you done that analysis?
David Mackey (EVP of Finance and Head of Investor Relations)
Sure. Let me take that, Ashwin. Obviously, we've done several assessments of what the potential opportunities are across the entire both institutional and index capabilities for us. And you're right, the opportunity is meaningful. The reality is we know there are no hard and fast rules that we need to continue to demonstrate the right structure, the right metrics, the right approach to be able to access those funds. So at this point in time, you know, to be able to say, you know, we definitively know that, you know, these certain things are a given, I don't think we can do that.
I think what we can say with certainty is that what we're doing here certainly positions the company much, much better to have access to those, to those funds. And, and obviously, if you look at our shareholder portfolio today, sitting here with 2% of our shares held in index funds, this has been a major deficiency for the company over the past several years.
Keshav Murugesh (Group CEO)
So, Ashwin, you know, I think I would just like to take a higher level stab at this question, to answer this question. If you look. I mean, notwithstanding where the macros are and, you know, how demand is playing out at this point in time, if you just step back, you know, maybe a year or two, you will see that, you know, we have taken a view that the tailwinds for this business continue to be very, very high. For the sector itself and for WNS in particular, there is the ability for us to continue to lead and grow and grow faster than the industry over a period of time. That's, that's really where our focus is.
We believe that the market penetration levels for, you know, BPO continue to be low, and therefore, with some of the changes taking place in the world around us, including AI, GenAI, and some of the other conversations we've been having over the last few quarters, the ability for smart companies to lead is very high. WNS is one of those smart companies that will gain its pace. And while we're doing all of this, you will see that we, you know, in order to prepare for all of this, we have made some significant changes. We made an organization structure change in order to be even more nimble, flexible, right-sized, and innovative and attentive to our customers. That organization change has now settled in well.
We have absorbed a number of, you know, leaders across the company, added a number of new leaders that have come in, got very comfortable with this. Our customer base, prospect base, is very aligned around this new org structure. The implementations that we have done around technology as well as AI, GenAI, and some of the things that I've spoken about over the last two or three quarters, are starting to resonate well. Although, like Dave said, at this point in time, the revenue impact on the, of all of this is minimal, but we believe it will keep catching up, right? As a result of all of this, the conversations that are now starting with prospects are, you know, emerging as much larger-sized conversations, larger-sized deals that we think over the next few quarters will emerge as proper run rate events for, for this company.
And when we do all of this, we therefore think, you know, the potential for this company to access capital, manage our capital allocation program appropriately, as well as allow the investor base to participate in this growth story in a constructive way, has to be done. And that's one of the reasons why we've done all of this. Now, in terms of sizing of the opportunity, I can only tell you, like Dave said, you know, 2% of our equity is owned by the indices. And you know that when you look at the peer set and you look at others, a significantly larger part of their holding actually are indices. So we actually believe that some of these funds, as well as other stakeholders, deserve to, you know, own the WNS stock.
As management, we are doing whatever is required behind the scenes to make sure that everyone is part of our long-term growth and success story. That's really where this, you know, conversation is coming.
Sanjay Puria (CFO)
And maybe, and Ashwin, I'll, you know, I'll just add over there, that, you know, if you see the evolution from a, you know, a WNS specific perspective, right? Because the other question is, you know, what the timing, right? You know, why is the time, you know, why it was not earlier and so on. And this whole diversification, you know, whether it's from a revenue perspective, whether it was from the market, whether, you know, specifically on the North America, you know, the structure change, what Keshu spoke about, to support their entire growth, this is, this is how it has been evolving over the years, and that is where we believe that, you know, this is the right time for the company to really move ahead with some of this additional steps.
Ashwin Shirvaikar (Managing Director, Equity Research)
That's very complete. Thank you all, and I'll leave it there.
Sanjay Puria (CFO)
Thank you, Ashwin.
David Mackey (EVP of Finance and Head of Investor Relations)
Thanks, Ashwin.
Operator (participant)
Please stand by for the next question. The last question comes from David Koning with Baird. Your line is now open.
David Koning (Senior Research Analyst, Associate Director of Research)
Good morning, guys. Great job.
David Mackey (EVP of Finance and Head of Investor Relations)
Thanks, Dave.
David Koning (Senior Research Analyst, Associate Director of Research)
And just a couple quick ones. So first of all, the health business, you know, obviously still declining with the transition, but we've had four quarters now of a pretty similar decline, which implies Q4 hits a dramatically easier comp. And I guess the real question here is: how fast is that growing ex the transition really so we can get an understanding of how fast Q4 could grow, and going forward?
David Mackey (EVP of Finance and Head of Investor Relations)
Let me take that, Dave. You know, obviously, we know in fiscal Q4 of last year, we took a significant step down when we lost a large healthcare process with one of our clients. If you look at the challenge, for example, in the healthcare vertical this past quarter, it was actually on the analytics project work. So, part of what we've seen here in the last quarter or two is some softness relative to the project work and the analytics work in that vertical and subvertical, and for us, specifically in the pharmaceutical space. But you're right.
I think we're getting to the point now where those headwinds anniversary and, you know, to the extent that we've got stability on the project side, we should see Q4 sequentially step up, and we should start to see a reacceleration of that year-over-year growth.
David Koning (Senior Research Analyst, Associate Director of Research)
Okay, great. That's, that's exactly what I was looking for. Good. And then the second thing, just employees grew over 1% sequentially. The last couple quarters were flat. That, that seems like a pretty good sign. Often, stocks start going up when, when employees grow. Maybe what's behind that? I mean, is, is there a lot of just confidence that you need to start building the, the employee base again, just to keep up with accelerating growth?
David Mackey (EVP of Finance and Head of Investor Relations)
Sure. Let me take that one, Dave. Obviously, you know, we fully expected this question, given the fact that our headcount went up in the quarter while revenue went down. And the reality is, when you look at what we see going forward, when you look at having over 99% visibility to, you know, healthy sequential growth from Q3 to Q4, what we didn't want to do is get caught in a situation where we were letting people go and then rehiring them a quarter and a half later. So part of the reason margins were a little soft this quarter is because we carried excess resource. When you look at revenue per employee in the quarter, it was weak.
The reality is, we were willing to do that and willing to absorb that in terms of the overall margins for the full year, maintaining at this 21.5 a range. Absolutely willing to do that given the visibility that we have to growth going forward.
Sanjay Puria (CFO)
You know, also just to add in, when we spoke about, you know, the, the large insurance client, you know, from a quarter four perspective, we are in the phase two, so the transition work will start. So it's preparedness for some of those also, as well as in some of the other visibility and the growth what we are seeing. So, yes, absolutely. What we have mentioned that, you know, it's just, it was a matter of a timing, and also the, the mix changes, right? Because the skills are different from a different business perspective, and accordingly, you know, we have to just balance, you know, quarter to quarter for that.
David Koning (Senior Research Analyst, Associate Director of Research)
Good job. Thanks, guys.
David Mackey (EVP of Finance and Head of Investor Relations)
Thanks, Dave.
Sanjay Puria (CFO)
Thanks, Dave.
Operator (participant)
At this time, we have no further questions in the queue. This will conclude today's conference call. Thank you for participating. You may now disconnect.