CarMax - Earnings Call - Q4 2025
April 10, 2025
Transcript
Operator (participant)
Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for standing by. Welcome to the Fourth Quarter Fiscal Year 2025, CarMax Earnings Release Conference Call. At this time, all participants are in a listen-only mode. After the speaker's presentation, there will be a question-and-answer session. Please be advised that today's conference is being recorded. I would now like to hand the conference over to your speaker today, David Lowenstein, VP of Investor Relations. Please go ahead.
David Lowenstein (VP of Investor Relations)
Thank you, Madison. Good morning, everyone, and thank you for joining our fiscal 2025 fourth quarter earnings conference call. I'm here today with Bill Nash, our President and CEO; Enrique Mayor-Mora, our Executive Vice President and CFO; and Jon Daniels, our Executive Vice President, CarMax Auto Finance Operations. Let me remind you, our statements today that are not statements of historical fact, including, but not limited to, statements regarding the company's future business plans, prospects, and financial performance, are forward-looking statements we make pursuant to the safe harbor provisions of the Private Securities Litigation Reform Act of 1995. These statements are based on our current knowledge, expectations, and assumptions, and are subject to substantial risks and uncertainties that could cause actual results to differ materially from our expectations. In providing projections and other forward-looking statements, we disclaim any intent or obligation to update them.
For additional information on important factors and risks that could affect these expectations, please see our Form 8-K filed with the SEC this morning, our annual report on Form 10-K for fiscal year 2024, and our quarterly reports on Form 10-Q previously filed with the SEC. Should you have any follow-up questions after the call, please feel free to contact our Investor Relations Department at 804-747-0422, extension 7865. Lastly, let me thank you in advance for asking only one question and getting back in the queue for more follow-ups. Bill?
Bill Nash (CEO)
Great. Thank you, David. Good morning, everyone, and thanks for joining us. We're very pleased with the continued momentum across our diversified business during the fourth quarter. Our results reflect solid execution and the strength of our business model. We delivered robust year-over-year EPS growth as we drove unit volume increases in sales and buys, materially increased gross profit, grew cap income, and realized additional cost efficiencies. Our associates, stores, technology, and digital capabilities, all seamlessly tied together, enable us to provide the most customer-centric car buying and selling experience. This is a key differentiator that gives us the right to win in access to the largest total addressable market in the used car space. This also positions us to drive sales, gain market share, and deliver significant year-over-year earnings growth for years to come. In the fourth quarter, on a year-over-year basis, we grew retail and wholesale unit volume.
We delivered strong retail, wholesale, and EPP GPUs and materially improved service growth profits. We bought more vehicles from both consumers and dealers, achieving an all-time record with dealers. We grew CAF's net interest margin and continued to advance our full credit spectrum underwriting model. We materially leveraged SG&A as a percent of gross profit, and we also achieved double-digit EPS growth for the third consecutive quarter. For the fourth quarter of FY '25, we delivered total sales of $6 billion, up 7% compared to last year, primarily driven by higher volume. In our retail business, total unit sales increased 6.2%, and used unit comps were up 5.1%, despite having one less selling day, inclement weather, and a delayed start to this year's tax season. Average selling price was in line with last year's fourth quarter.
For the full year, total retail unit sales increased 3.1%, and used unit comps were up 2.2%, with a decline in the first quarter more than offset by gains across the second, third, and fourth quarters. Our market share data indicates that our nationwide share of age 0-10-year-old used vehicles was 3.7% in calendar 2024, consistent with 2023. External title data shows year-over-year, while our share came under pressure during the first half of 2024, it then recovered as we achieved accelerating gains through the second half, with particular strength in age 0-4 vehicles, which grew for the entire year. The data indicates that our market share continued to grow year-over-year during January 2025, the latest period for which information is available.
While I do not intend to provide another update until this time next year, we remain confident in our ability to achieve further market share gains across 2025 and beyond. Fourth quarter retail gross profit per used unit was $2,322, a fourth quarter record up from last year's $2,251. Wholesale unit sales were up 3.1% versus the fourth quarter last year. Average selling price was flat year-over-year. Fourth quarter wholesale gross profit per unit was $1,045, which is historically strong, though down from the $1,120 a year ago. We bought approximately 269,000 vehicles during the quarter, up 15% from last year. We purchased approximately 223,000 vehicles from consumers, with more than half of those buys coming through our online instant appraisal experience. With the support of our Edmunds sales team, we sourced the remaining approximately 46,000 vehicles through dealers, which is up 114% from last year.
For the fourth quarter, approximately 15% of retail unit sales were online, up from 14% last year. Total revenue from online transactions was approximately 29% compared with 30% last year. All of our wholesale auctions and sales were virtual and are considered online transactions, which represented 17% of the total revenue for the quarter. Approximately 58% of retail unit sales were omni sales for this quarter, up from 55% in the prior year. As a reminder, our omni-channel sales definition incorporates customers who complete some, but not all, of the following transactional activities online: reserving the vehicle, financing the vehicle if needed, trading in or opting out of a trade-in, and creating a sales order.
To better reflect the ways customers are utilizing our digital capabilities to buy a car, going forward, we are updating our definition of an omni-channel sale to also include customers who complete any of the following steps online: pre-qualifying for financing, setting appointments, and signing up for notification on cars coming soon. Based on this updated definition, approximately 67% of our retail unit sales were omni this quarter, up from 64% last year. Of note, this does not impact how we calculate online sales since the steps to complete an online retail transaction remain the same. Across omni and online, our digital capabilities supported over 80% of our sales during the fourth quarter.
We expect that our mix of digitally supported sales will continue to grow over time as we add further enhancements to our online tools, customers become more accustomed to leveraging them, and as we improve our ability to track their use. Turning to finance, CarMax Auto Finance, or CAF, delivered income of $159 million, up 8% from the same quarter last year. In a few moments, Jon will provide more detail on customer financing, the loan loss provision, and CAF contribution, as well as our progress on full credit spectrum lending and increasing CAF's penetration. At this point, I'd like to turn the call over to Enrique, who will share more information on our fourth quarter financial performance. Enrique?
Enrique Mayor-Mora (CFO)
Thanks, Bill, and good morning, everyone. The momentum we built over the last few quarters continued into the fourth quarter. We achieved positive growth in retail and wholesale units, increased per unit and total dollar margin, grew CAP income, and had strong flow-through to our bottom line. Fourth quarter net earnings per diluted share was $0.58, up 81% versus a year ago. Adjusted for a $12 million non-cash impairment within other expense related to an Edmunds lease, EPS was $0.64, which is doubled from a year ago. Total gross profit was $668 million, up 14% from last year's fourth quarter. Used retail margin of $424 million increased by 9%, with higher volume and per unit margins. Wholesale vehicle margin of $125 million declined by 4%, with an increase in volume offset by a reduction in per unit margins. Other gross profit was $119 million, up 72% from a year ago.
This was driven primarily by a combination of EPP and service. EPP increased by $8 million, or $10 per retail unit, as we lapped over the initial rollout of margin increases that took place in last year's fourth quarter. Service recorded a $1 million loss, which was a $44 million improvement over last year's fourth quarter. We achieved this performance improvement through successful cost coverage, efficiency measures, and growth in sales. On the SG&A front, expenses for the fourth quarter were $611 million, up 5%, or $30 million from the prior year. SG&A leveraged by 770 basis points, driven by growth in gross profit and our ongoing actions to improve expense efficiency. SG&A dollars for the fourth quarter versus last year were mainly impacted by two factors. First, total compensation and benefits increased by $22 million.
Over half of this increase was due to our corporate bonus accrual, with the majority of the balance driven by unit volume growth. Second, advertising was up by $9 million due to timing. This was in line with the guidance we provided last quarter. In respect to capital allocation, during the fourth quarter, we repurchased approximately 1.2 million shares for a total spend of $99 million. As of the end of the quarter, we had approximately $1.94 billion of repurchase authorization remaining. As we look ahead, I'll highlight a few key areas which support our earnings model that Bill will speak to shortly. We are testing EPP product enhancements that will focus on increasing penetration and per unit margins. These enhancements are expected to drive a small year-over-year increase in per unit EPP margin in FY '26, with the potential for more expansion in fiscal '27.
We expect service margin in FY '26 to grow year-over-year, predominantly in the first half of the year, and to deliver a slight positive profit contribution for the full year, as governed by sales performance given the leveraged deleveraged nature of service. Additionally, we expect service to continue to serve as a slight profit lever beyond FY '26. In respect to SG&A in the nearer term, we expect to require low single-digit gross profit growth to lever on an annual basis, including in FY '26. This will be supported by our goal of hitting full-year omni-cost neutrality in FY '26 for the first time, with continued improvement thereafter. We expect all three metrics, per used unit, per total units, and as a percent of gross profit, to be more efficient than pre-omni for the full year.
This reinforces our pathway back to a lower SG&A leverage ratio, with the initial goal of returning to the mid-70% range over time as we see healthier consumer demand. In FY '26, we expect that marketing spend will be approximately the same as in FY '25 on a total unit basis. With regard to capital expenditures, we anticipate approximately $575 million in FY '26. The increase is primarily driven by the timing of land purchases as we experience favorability to our FY '25 outlook due to the timing of certain deal closures. Similar to FY '24 and FY '25, the largest portion of our CarMax investment is related to the land and build-out of facilities for long-term growth capacity in off-site reconditioning and auctions. In FY26, we plan to open six new store locations, up from five in FY '25, and four standalone reconditioning and auction centers, up from two in FY '25.
Our extensive nationwide footprint and logistics network continue to be a competitive advantage for CarMax. Now I'd like to turn the call over to Jon.
Jon Daniels (EVP)
Thanks, Enrique. Good morning, everyone. During the fourth quarter, CarMax Auto Finance originated approximately $1.9 billion, resulting in sales penetration of 42.3% net of three-day payoffs, which was in line with last year's fourth quarter. The weighted average contract rate charged to new customers was 11.1%, a decrease of 40 basis points from a year ago, which was reflective of credit tightening and APR reductions executed prior to Q4. Third-party tier two penetration in the quarter was 17.6% of sales, down 110 basis points from last year, while third-party tier three volume accounted for 7.9% of sales, down 30 basis points from last year. CAF income for the quarter was $159 million, which was up $12 million from FY '24. This increase was driven by net interest margin, which remained steady from the third quarter at 6.2%, but is up 30 basis points from last year's fourth quarter.
Provision for loan losses was $68 million and results in a total reserve balance of $459 million, or 2.61% of managed receivables. This sequential improvement in the reserve-to-receivable ratio reflects an additional quarter with a more normalized provision, along with the continuation of previous credit tightening. Regarding our full-spectrum lending initiative, we remain excited about CAP's continued efforts in this space, as well as the tremendous growth potential unlocked by the broadening of our securitization program. During the month of March, CAP began measured expansion by recapturing profitable portions of tier one originations that we had shifted to our tier two lenders as we tightened lending standards.
This adjustment is targeted to grow our penetration by 100 to 150 basis points in the near term and is enabled by our non-prime securitization program, which allows us to efficiently fund these non-prime receivables while retaining the full economic value of the contracts. We were also pleased to successfully execute our second non-prime ABS transaction, which closed in late March and was well received in the market. We continue to learn from our new underwriting models and corresponding tests currently in place and anticipate capturing additional volume across tier two and tier three during the back half of the fiscal year. As always, we will carefully monitor the consumer and the broader economy and will adjust our origination strategy as needed. It is worth noting that in the first quarter, we are forecasted to have a larger provision sequentially and year-over-year, driven by new origination volume.
This stems from seasonally higher sales and a lower credit quality period, plus the need for additional reserve given the profitable but higher loss nature of the recaptured receivables that I mentioned a few moments ago. As a reminder, we expect this initial impact from building the loss reserve as we grow CAF penetration to be materially offset by future income over time. Now I'll turn the call back over to Bill.
Bill Nash (CEO)
Thank you, Jon and Enrique. As I mentioned at the start of the call, I'm pleased with the momentum we are seeing across our business. The associate and customer-facing tools we launched during fiscal '25 are contributing to our results and to providing the most customer-centric car buying and selling experience. I'm proud of the steps we took during the year to further differentiate our offering and drive incremental operational efficiencies. Some examples include: for retail, we rolled out a number of new systems that enhance consumer shopping experiences, support conversion, and enable our associates to be more efficient. These include order processing in our stores, customer accounts online, AI-driven knowledge management in our CECs, and EV research and shopping tools on the Edmunds and CarMax websites. Our digital tools and enhancements have made it easier for consumers to self-progress in their shopping journey.
Sky, our AI-powered virtual assistant, is now able to independently answer over half of the questions our customers ask it, reflecting more than a 20% year-over-year improvement. Additionally, the rate of fully self-progressed online sales grew by 25% across fiscal 2025. For supply, we enhanced both our consumer and dealer-facing appraisal experiences. We are now able to give digital offers to approximately 99% of the customers who come to CarMax.com for an appraisal, and we made MaxOffer even easier to use. This has attracted more dealers to the offering and has driven strong record sourcing volume each quarter. For finance, we began testing new credit scoring models and corresponding strategies across the full credit spectrum, which positions us to further grow CAF income modestly in the near term and more materially over time.
We also released an update to our finance-based shopping experience that seamlessly incorporates existing instant appraisal offers into our pre-qualification offering, giving customers more precise credit terms. We continue to focus on driving down cost of goods sold by pursuing incremental efficiency opportunities across our logistics network and reconditioning operations. We achieved savings of approximately $125 per unit this year and anticipate that we will achieve at least another $125 per unit in fiscal 2026. This exceeds the initial $200 target we set at the beginning of fiscal 2025. These efficiencies support affordability as we pass savings on to our customers and also support our margins. In fiscal 2026, we will leverage and enhance our capabilities to drive growth through better execution, innovative efforts, and up-leveled experiences.
Some examples include: for retail, we will continue leveraging data science and AI to offer even better digital experiences for our associates and consumers, driving conversion and efficiency. We plan to improve our online vehicle transfer experience and to expand Sky's functionality with additional data and new architecture. In recognition of the breadth and seamlessness of our best-in-class offering, we will also launch a new marketing campaign over the summer that will bring our omnichannel experience and our digital capabilities to the forefront for a broad set of consumers. For supply, we plan to streamline the online appraisal checkout process and expand appraisal pickup availability to new markets. We will also further enhance MaxOffer to attract new dealers, expanding our access to directly sourced vehicles. For credit, as Jon mentioned, we plan to continue expanding CAFs participation across the credit spectrum to grow penetration and capture profitable returns.
Additionally, we plan to modernize the ownership experience on CAFs digital platform, which will enhance customer experience and drive operating efficiencies. Looking ahead, we position the company to achieve ongoing growth in retail and wholesale unit sales and market share with double-digit EPS growth for years to come. We're excited about the power of the earning model we have built. Our model is designed to deliver an EPS growth CAGR in the high teens when retail unit growth is in the mid-single digits. In addition to retail and wholesale unit growth, other key inputs driving our model are strength in other gross profit, CAFs credit spectrum expansion, continued operating efficiencies, SG&A leverage, and our share repurchase program. Regarding our long-term goals, we are focused on growing the business, and we continue to make progress towards those goals.
However, at this point, we are moving the timeframes associated with them given the potential impact of broader macro factors. Before turning to Q&A, I want to recognize two significant milestones. First, Fortune Magazine recently named CarMax as one of its 100 best companies to work for for the 21st year in a row. I am incredibly proud of this recognition. It's due to our associates' commitment to supporting each other, our customers, and our communities every day. Second, we opened up our 250th store during the fourth quarter. Reaching 250 stores across the country is a fantastic accomplishment. I want to thank and congratulate all of our associates for the work that they do. They are our differentiator and the key to our success. In closing, we're excited about the strength of the business model and the opportunities that lie ahead to grow sales and earnings.
We are proud to offer customers the ability to progress seamlessly through and across online and in-store channels, delivering what our research affirms is the most customer-centric buying and selling experience. This competitive advantage gives us access to the largest total addressable market in the used car space and provides a strong runway for future growth. With that, we'll be happy to take your questions. Madison?
Operator (participant)
Thank you. At this time, if you would like to ask a question, please press the star and one on your telephone keypad. You may remove yourself from the queue at any time by pressing star two. In the interest of time, we ask that you limit your questions to one at a time. Once again, that is star and one to ask a question. Your first question comes from the line of Sharon Zackfia with William Blair. Your line is open. You may now ask your question.
Sharon Zackfia (Group Head of the Consumer)
Hi, good morning. I guess, you know, as we—good morning. As we think about fiscal 2025 and kind of that tale of two halves where there were some share losses in the first half followed by the accelerating gains in the second half, as you kind of diagnosed that, can you give us some insight into kind of what you think the drivers were between the first half and the second half and why you kind of saw that inflection? I guess secondarily, as we're kind of staring down this idea of maybe used car prices going up again with tariffs, I mean, what lessons did you learn over the past several years that could maybe help the business more if affordability becomes more challenged again in the industry? Thank you.
Bill Nash (CEO)
Okay, Sharon. On the first question about kind of first half versus second half, look, the main driving factor that—and we talked about that at the beginning of the year—is we were coming off of, if you remember, last calendar year, that last quarter, there was a big price correction. Remember, it was the third, last and third one that we saw. When you have those big price corrections, I think, if I remember correctly, it was probably around $3,000 in a very short period of time of depreciation. That impacts us a little bit differently. I think you had that that kind of really worked into the fourth quarter that masked a lot of the things that were providing benefit for the rest of the year.
If you think about the improvements—and I cited a lot of them on the call today—but I think there's just a lot of factors. You know, you take—we're continuing to make the experience better for the consumers and our associates. We've got better execution. You've got the benefit of efficiency gains and kind of flexibility that gives you both in your pricing and your margin, making sure that you're competitively priced. You know, our inventory acquisition expansion, we've continued to set new records with our MAX offer. It just gives you a wider variety of inventory. I think the other thing is this year we've also just seen a more normal pricing environment. I think there's a lot of things going on there, but I do think that the actions that we've taken are really what's driving the momentum.
I think they were masked a little bit in the first quarter because we were coming off of a big macro factor. As far as your second question goes, I think it was just kind of, if I remember correctly, it's, you know, what have we kind of learned? You know, how are we better positioned now versus previous? I think there's a lot of things that we learned in the last two or three years. You know, one of them obviously is, you know, we've sharpened our skills. When we came out of COVID, you know, our six to ten-year-old cars just wasn't a big focus for us, as big a focus, and that's not really what customers were looking for, and so we had to build that muscle up. We have more six to ten-year-old cars that, you know, over time.
I think other things, we've expanded the sourcing, which I just talked about. I think Jon spoke about the ABS bifurcation. You know, if you remember, coming out of COVID, there's a lot of profitable loans out there, but we couldn't—we had to pass them on to lenders because we had one ABS that required a certain return and certain loss ratio. You know, now having a second ABS, I think, absolutely helps us preserve some of those sales. You'd like to think all of them get picked up, but some of them won't get picked up. I think that's another one.
You've got the cost improvements that we've been focused on over the last couple of years, the work that Jon and his team have done on the FDS and making sure that we make it very easy for customers to understand their monthly payment and look for options that fit that monthly payment. I think there's just a lot of great things, as well as just the overall online experience. You know, we didn't slow down during the last few years. We kept plugging along at it because we knew this is where we wanted to get. I think there's a lot that goes into that.
Operator (participant)
Thank you. Your next question comes from the line of Seth Basham with Wedbush Securities. Your line is open.
Seth Basham (Managing Director and Director of Research)
Thanks a lot and good morning. Bill, if you wouldn't mind commenting on quarter-to-date used comp trends, that would be great. As you think about this macro environment and the potential for new car tariffs driving double-digit increases in new car prices, what does that mean for you guys from a share gain perspective and from a used car industry growth perspective? Thank you.
Bill Nash (CEO)
Yeah, good morning, Seth. All right, on the comp trends, look, if I look at the fourth quarter, December and January were very strong. February was a little softer, which we expected given that we had leap day last year. I also think February was slightly impacted by the delay of refunds. And what I mean by there is, if you remember, probably halfway through February, refunds were off significantly year-over-year. Now, they caught up pretty much by the end of February, but I think it pushed a little bit into March, as well as we had some weather impacts.
We get into March and we saw a step up that was a little stronger than the fourth quarter comp, and it continued the whole month until the end of March where we saw some strength, some additional strength, which continued and then accelerated into the first few days of April, which obviously we're early into April right now. You know, from a comp standpoint, first quarter-to-date, we're running high single digits. Your second question, oh, I think it was on tariffs. Is that correct?
Seth Basham (Managing Director and Director of Research)
Yeah. New car tariffs, if they drive double-digit increases in new car prices, what does that mean for the used car industry and your ability to gain market share in that environment?
Bill Nash (CEO)
Yeah, you know, I think it's, you know, there's a lot of moving pieces here, and I'm sure it's probably changed even while we've been on this call, but there's a lot to watch. You want to look at the new car pricing, the supply, parts costs, used vehicle supply, just market volatility in general with consumer sentiment. Obviously, as you pointed out, new car prices are definitely going to go up. I think, you know, certainly as new car prices go up, that'll put a bigger spread between late model used and new cars. Obviously, just the speculation of the tariffs and now the tariffs actually being out there, it's driven demand. I mean, you're seeing it in the franchise dealers. We're seeing it just based off of the step up that I just spoke to.
You know, I think it will push some folks into looking at used cars, late model used cars, which is interesting because that's what we're seeing a lot of interest in right now. I think over time, what could happen is that the used car prices will also go up. The question is how much will they go up over what period of time? I think the other thing to think about on the tariffs that impacts our business, as well as anybody that sells used cars, is just the parts piece. When it comes to reconditioning, the parts will be going up. It just makes our work that much more important on the efficiencies that we're going after on cost of goods sold to offset those increases.
Seth Basham (Managing Director and Director of Research)
Thank you very much.
Bill Nash (CEO)
Yep.
Operator (participant)
Thank you. Your next question comes from the line of John Murphy with Bank of America. Please go ahead.
John Murphy (Managing Director)
Good morning, guys. I mean, I love hearing about the investment in the recon centers and the auctions because it gives you more throughput and production capacity. I'm just curious, Bill, you know, as you think about that, does that give you the ability to stay and maintain this presence in the six to ten-year-old sort of car segment of the car population? Could that actually be increased over time? Sort of kind of along that same line, you talk about the $200 in COGS savings going to, it sounds like now $250. You know, how much of that do you think you're going to be able to maintain as you kind of go through this reconditioning and other efficiencies? Is $2,300 to $2,400 the new $2,200?
Bill Nash (CEO)
Okay. Good morning, John. On the reconditioning and the auctions, yeah, look, we're thrilled. I mean, that's going to give us additional capacity, which is why you're seeing that we open up more. Certainly, we want to have the cars out on the lot. You know, we sell zero to ten-year-old cars. We want to have what the consumers are looking for. If they're looking for six to ten, we're certainly going to continue to try to move that mix without sacrificing the quality. I mean, that's something that you and I, we've talked about in the past, is we don't want to push cars out there to meet an age parameter, don't meet our quality standards. Because quite honestly, we're fine with taking those cars and wholesaling them.
We just, we do not get the retail market share for them, but you know, it is a great business when you are turning an $8,000 car and making $1,000 every seven days. Interestingly, if I look at the sales mix this last quarter, we actually sold a little bit more zero to four cars than we did older cars. That is not to say we are not pushing on the older cars and putting out those at the consumers. It is just an interesting anecdote that actually the consumers are looking a little bit more for the younger cars this quarter. I think on the $250 efficiency that we are going after, look, I think the big wild card there is just how much tariffs end up impacting parts.
I feel great about the fact that, you know, we're getting these efficiencies, you know, across the system in old stores, in old production centers, in new stores. I feel good about getting those. The question becomes, how much will tariffs kind of offset that? Which, again, we're going to continue to focus and go after that. The other thing I would tell you on these reconditioning centers, these offsite reconditioning centers, the additional benefit that you get from that is that you now have the cars closer to the stores and the markets, and we put them in, you know, we're putting them in markets where we have capacity challenges, and so we're having to pull cars from further distance for retail.
Now, with these production centers being closer, you cut down on your logistics, which is a savings that, you know, we're going to continue to get whether, you know, there's tariffs or not.
John Murphy (Managing Director)
It's good to hear. Thank you very much.
Bill Nash (CEO)
Thank you, John.
Operator (participant)
Thank you. Your next question comes from the line of Brian Nagel with Oppenheimer. Your line is open.
Brian Nagel (Managing Director and Senior Analyst)
Hi, good morning. Nice quarter. Congratulations.
Bill Nash (CEO)
Thank you, Brian.
Brian Nagel (Managing Director and Senior Analyst)
I want to, I'm going to go, I think Seth asked the question about the quarter-to-trend business, and you said, you know, Bill, you're running high single digits would be a step up from what you did in Q4, and then particularly as you talked about February. I guess, and I know you're not, I know you don't give guidance, but what I want to ask is, I mean, as you're looking at the business, you know, how should we think, particularly against what is a very fluid macro backdrop? I mean, how should you think about, how should we think about the sustainability of that early fiscal Q1 performance? I mean, do you think it, is it a catch-up from maybe February? Does it reflect, you know, potentially people buying cars ahead of time because of tariffs? There is this overall sustainability from your standpoint?
Bill Nash (CEO)
Yeah. First of all, I don't think it's a catch-up for February. I think we probably got a little bit of benefit there because, again, you're not going to get the catch-up on the leap day miss. What you will get a little catch-up on is the tax refunds, a little bit of weather, but, you know, that's very small in the scheme of things. I wouldn't look at it nearly as nearly like a catch-up. As you said, we don't give guidance for the full year, but I will tell you, Brian, I mean, you know, we expect that momentum that we've been seeing for the last three quarters. We're coming into the year very strong, and we've got some good momentum, and we would expect to continue that momentum. Obviously, you alluded to it.
I mean, there's a lot that's going on in the macro right now, and it's changing. It's a very fluid situation. We're constantly monitoring it. You know, we're looking at mitigation plans from a part standpoint, all kinds of things. It's a little hard to speak on the whole year, but I will tell you that we feel good about the momentum coming into this year.
Brian Nagel (Managing Director and Senior Analyst)
That's helpful. I appreciate it. Thank you.
Bill Nash (CEO)
Sure.
Operator (participant)
Thank you. Your next question comes from the line of Scot Ciccarelli with Truist. Your line is open.
Josh Shang (Anlayst)
Hi, good morning, guys. Josh Shang on for Scott.
Bill Nash (CEO)
So, John.
Josh Shang (Anlayst)
You talked a bit about the improving market share here in the back half of the year, but with it sitting just under 4% today, curious, what do you think you have to do from here and what has to happen to get closer to that 5% target over time?
Bill Nash (CEO)
Yeah, I think everything that they're working on that I've highlighted early on this call, this, you know, look, our big focus right now is growing sales and robust EPS. If you do those things, all the other stuff is going to work out great, including, you know, market share. If I look at the market share, you know, for this last year, I mean, we're gaining market share. We're taking it from other dealers. The interesting thing is you also see where P2P is growing market share when you look at that zero to ten space. The P&P strength is really in kind of the older vehicles, which you would expect.
I think we're, you know, we've got all the steps in place to continue, as I said, you know, January, which is the latest title data that we have at this point, we're continuing that share gain. Like I said, you know, with Brian, we like the momentum that we're on, and we would expect to continue to gain market share.
Josh Shang (Anlayst)
Got it. That's helpful. Thanks.
Bill Nash (CEO)
Thank you.
Operator (participant)
Thank you. Your next question comes from the line of Jeff Lick with Stephens Inc. Your line is open.
Jeff Lick (Managing Director)
Good morning, guys. Congrats on a nice quarter.
Bill Nash (CEO)
Thank you.
Jeff Lick (Managing Director)
I was wondering if we could talk about sourcing. You know, in this quarter, you bought 46,000 units from dealers, which is the most you've ever done on a percent basis in terms of improvement or even unit basis. You know, and also your overall purchase, you know, of 269,000 was 89% of the combined units. I think a big thing going forward, especially in this tariff scenario, is going to be your ability to source. Could you talk about, you know, both on the dealer front and the consumer front, and any evolutions or changes and what drove the kind of pickup there and improvement in Q4?
Bill Nash (CEO)
Yeah, yeah. It's a great question. You're right. I think sourcing is critical. We're very pleased with the MaxOffer product. I think it's a solution that works well for dealers, obviously, with the expansion. When I think about the performance there over the last year, it's being driven by, you know, first and foremost, just dealer expansion. This quarter, we were up from an active dealer standpoint 40% year-over-year. As I said in my prepared remarks, we also made it very easier for them to use. You know, if you look at the last year, we've got a great instant offer program for them. We also have one that allows them to take pictures if they'd like us to see some of the pictures that might be unique to that vehicle. We consolidated the vehicle condition information, making it faster and easier.
We've made improvements. Because you realize, you know, a dealer may start this Max offer on the desktop, but they need a mobile device to go see the car or whatever. We've made a very seamless transition to go from device to device. This past year was really about, you know, trying to make that experience better. The other thing that I would add is that we've also started to embed it in their inventory management system in the dealership, which, you know, just makes it more convenient. As I look forward to the upcoming year, I think we can still, we've got some improvements. You know, we're working on some landing page improvements, and I think some more integrations into dealers, which will continue to attract dealers. You know, we feel good about it. Feel good about the momentum.
Oh, I thank you guys.
Jeff Lick (Managing Director)
Awesome. Congrats.
Bill Nash (CEO)
Yeah. I think you also asked about the consumers. And again, the consumers, as I said in my prepared remarks, you know, we pretty much can give you an offer online now. There are very few cars that we cannot. There is a small subset that, you know, we really need to see the car. But, you know, essentially 99%, you can get those offers. We've made it easier. I think there is progress. We've got some things queued up there again, you know, with appraisal express drop-off, appraisal pickup. There are some other things that we are working on there, again, just to enhance that experience and continue to drive incremental buys.
Jeff Lick (Managing Director)
The last two weeks have been kind of crazy. There has been a pickup in conversion at the auction lanes in general. Any comments in terms of just looking at what we just talked about with Q4? Any changes with the last two weeks?
Bill Nash (CEO)
Yeah. I think you hit the nail on the head. You know, if you look at the wholesale the last couple of weeks, it's, you know, there's a lot of folks out there trying to bid, which, again, I think it just makes me feel really good about all of our initiatives on supply and sourcing directly versus having to go that route.
Jeff Lick (Managing Director)
Awesome. Congrats and good luck in the next quarter.
Bill Nash (CEO)
Thank you, Jeff.
Operator (participant)
Thank you. Your next question comes from the line of Rajat Gupta with JPMorgan. Your line is open.
Rajat Gupta (Analyst)
Great. Thanks for answering the question. I just had a follow-up to Jeff's question earlier. Bill, I'm trying to understand how are you, as an organization, trying to manage inventory acquisition over the next, you know, few weeks, couple of months, given firstly, there's already a lot of uncertainty around the tariffs. It may happen. It may go away. You know, you're hearing a lot about the auction lane activity. I mean, I'm curious, like, how are you managing your inventory acquisition in that backdrop? I mean, do you think you need to be aggressive or are you just being cautious, you know, just in case, you know, like tariffs actually don't stick ultimately? I'm just curious, like, how is the company strategizing around that? I have a very quick follow-up on service costs.
Bill Nash (CEO)
Yeah. Look, I think we manage inventory better than anybody in the business. We've been doing it for over 30 years. We are very familiar with operating and changing a fluid type of environment. You know, keep in mind, you know, we have the benefit of professional buyers who are on the ground. They're seeing things coupled with data that we're getting, coupled with our own auctions. You know, I feel really good about where we are, both from an inventory on the ground and our inventory going forward. I have no doubt that the team will continue to execute it at a very high level. You said you had a question on service as well?
Rajat Gupta (Analyst)
Yeah. Curious what drove the significant, like, I mean, typically seasonally, you know, we see like a big drop in like service gross profit. Curious what drove the, you know, the improvement. Was it just, you know, just better productivity, you know, you know, just maybe some like cost takeout? Just trying to understand, you know, the cadence there. I know, I think Enrique talked about like slattish gross profit or a little more than slattish for the full year. Does it mean that, you know, this is going to be less seasonal from here on, on just that cadence? Just curious if you could add any more color on the service gross profit.
Enrique Mayor-Mora (CFO)
I'll start maybe with your second point. Seasonality will still be in place. From quarter to quarter, there's definitely still seasonal aspects to it, which is why we expect the first quarter of the year, as I had in my prepared remarks, to be probably the strongest in the year because volume is higher. We'll also be comping over some cost coverage metrics we did last year. I tell you, in terms of why it's getting better, there's really three things that are driving the improvement that we've seen over the past two years now. We've consistently improved our performance and service. Number one is efficiency opportunities that we've driven. We've made investments in technologies like RFID trackers, investments in technologies we can better have, have better reporting in the stores to manage our costs as number one. Number two is we have taken cost coverage as well.
To match cost inflation that we've seen, we've had an ability to increase our fees there. Part of that is also driven by what Bill has talked about, the efficiency improvements in COGS and logistics gives us an ability to take some fees there without increasing the price of our cars. Lastly, certainly sales being positive helps because service does have a large component of fixed costs. Certainly when you think of all the technicians that we're trying to retain, there is an aspect of fixed costs, especially in the shorter term. You have positive sales, you know, stronger ability to leverage. We would expect going into this year to have a year of profitability in service, which we haven't had in several years.
Thereafter too, feeding the earnings model that Bill talked about and our ability to deliver double-digit EPS growth over several years is also because of that as well.
Rajat Gupta (Analyst)
Got it. Got it. Great. Thanks for all the color and good luck.
Enrique Mayor-Mora (CFO)
Thank you.
Operator (participant)
Thank you. Your next question comes from the line of Michael Montani with Evercore ISI. Your line is open.
Michael Montani (Managing Director)
Yes. Hey, good morning. Thanks for taking the question.
Bill Nash (CEO)
Morning.
Michael Montani (Managing Director)
Just wanted to ask, I guess, a two-part thing. One was, if you look at historically periods of appreciating prices, what does that typically do, you know, for your market share and then also your margins? How would you typically respond there? Because historically, you've called out it can be challenging if we have abnormal depreciation. If you get appreciation in price, does that help you from a share and margin perspective? The follow-up question was, you guys had mentioned an EPS outlook that includes, you know, if mid-single-digit unit growth is there, you could have high-teen EPS growth. I'm wondering if there's anything we need to keep in mind as it relates to that for this current year. Also, you know, anything we should know about from a timing perspective as we think through quarterly cadence?
Bill Nash (CEO)
Okay. Michael, good morning. On the appreciating price environment, I think for every group that sells used cars, when you're in an appreciating environment, it makes it easier. I think generally in an appreciating environment, you know, your margins are easier to manage because you're not having to do as many markdowns. Because again, you're going to sell the car, and if it's appreciating, the next car is going to be a little bit more expensive. I think it helps your margin. I think from a market share standpoint too, it would also help that. I think that's good. Your second question was on the model?
Michael Montani (Managing Director)
Yeah. From the model, you know, we've spent the past several years, as we all know, investing in our omnichannel model, investing in capabilities, investing in efficiencies.
We feel very confident about our ability at this point to deliver robust EPS CAGR growth for several years at least, talking of high teens, like we mentioned in our prepared remarks on just mid-single-digit retail sales. What that has enabled are strong margins, strong growth in other GPU as well, exceeding retail units. I talked about service. We talked about EPP opportunities. You also talked about SG&A. You know, we're done with the heavy investment period. We're pivoting from building capabilities to leveraging and enhancing them to grow efficiencies and to grow the bottom line. We think we are really well positioned to grow. You throw in the share repurchase program that we're committed to, that's also going to juice our EPS. You take a look at CAF.
We're making those investments there in terms of the full spectrum credit that Jon talked about. Those are also kind of in the shorter term, in the medium term, and definitely in the longer term, accelerators to our EPS growth. We think we've built a model here that is in a really strong position to deliver outsized returns.
Anything cadence-wise to think about as we progress through the year? Because I think you called out there could be some CAF-related things to keep in mind in the first quarter. On the flip side, you also have potentially some benefits from the work you've done in service and EPT.
Enrique Mayor-Mora (CFO)
Yeah. Before jumping into CAF, and I'll turn it over to Jon. Certainly from service, we do expect the first half of the year to perform probably better, holding everything constant than the back half, purely due to seasonality when you think of higher volume and comping over some cost coverage metrics we did last year. For service, I would expect outsized performance in the front half. For CAF, we'll just turn it over to Jon.
Jon Daniels (EVP)
Sure. Yeah. I'd definitely like to take the opportunity to speak to cadence on provision coming up. You know, I mentioned in the prepared remarks that, you know, I anticipate a sequentially higher year-over-year increase in provision. And just to give some orders of magnitude around that. I'll jump off Q4. We had a $68 million more normalized provision in Q4. You're going to have a sequentially higher provision in Q1 because it's a higher, from a seasonality standpoint, it's a higher volume quarter. It is a lower credit quality quarter. You can anticipate a 30%-35% increase off of that Q4 number simply from that aspect. Couple that with the fact that we said we are going to, we have taken some volume back that we were giving to flowing to tier two partners, kind of undo a portion of our tightening.
You can add probably another 10-15% increase off of the Q4 number there. You absolutely could see a 45-50% increase in provision in Q2. Sorry, in Q1. That tightening will continue. Sorry, that increase will continue because, again, this is volume that we anticipate keeping. You're going to have to continue to provision for that added volume we're taking on. Again, we will watch that economy very, very carefully. The back half of the year, we are anticipating taking in more volume from our tier two and tier three testing. That would stack on there. All in the long run, a very, very good thing for CAF, but an impact in the near term to our provision.
Enrique Mayor-Mora (CFO)
That's relative to Q4.
David Lowenstein (VP of Investor Relations)
That's relative to Q4 is the key. Yes.
Michael Montani (Managing Director)
Thank you.
Operator (participant)
Thank you. Your next question comes from the line of Chris Bottiglieri with BNP Paribas. Your line is open.
Chris Bottiglieri (Senior Equity Research Analyst)
Hey, guys. Thanks for taking the question. You've done a really nice job taking costs out of business the last few years, certainly consistent with my own expectations. The question is, though, if the economy slows from here and sales turn negative to mid-single or high single digits again, does EPS decline high teens very much like the upside, or do you have levers left at your disposal to continue to cut costs and mitigate the operating leverage?
Enrique Mayor-Mora (CFO)
Yeah. We feel good. Look, a couple of things. I mean, one is we still have room for efficiency improvements. Those are part of our plan irrespective of kind of the macroeconomy. We're going after those efficiency improvements. That's number one. Number two is if there is a downturn in the economy, you know, we have pulled levers in the past. You know, we're positioned to pull those levers if we had to again. You know, you're looking at a management team here that's been through quite a few things here over the past few years. So we know kind of how to manage through these kind of environments, whether they're upswing or downswing.
Chris Bottiglieri (Senior Equity Research Analyst)
Yeah. Thank you.
Operator (participant)
Thank you. Your next question comes from the line of John Healy with Northcoast Research. Your line is open.
John Healy (Managing Director and Research Analyst)
Thanks for taking my question. Just kind of wanted to ask a big picture question, Bill. In the last couple of weeks, obviously, outside of the macro, probably the biggest item on used retail has just been some of the Amazon news. You know, obviously, it does not appear like they are becoming a retailer per se in the auto space, but would love to get your thoughts about them entering in the fray. You know, do you view them as a, you know, adversary competitor, you know, maybe elevating your peers, or do you view them potentially as a partner? You know, would you be surprised if you maybe work collaboratively with them going forward? Thanks.
Bill Nash (CEO)
Yeah. Good morning, John. Yeah. You know, I don't think anybody was surprised to see them actually get into this space. They've been kind of talking about it. You know, to your point, they recently clarified, you know, they're more interested in kind of the listings, the lead generation, the advertising. The way I see it is at this point, it's more like a, you know, a facilitator that we, you know, we facilitate with. I mean, we work with a lot of different facilitators. I would see us as more of a collaboration. You know, we obviously see a lot of traffic just through carmax.com, but we also, we work with facilitators to help complement the carmax.com traffic. I think that that's the way we kind of view it at this point. Certainly, you know, it's something that you continue to monitor.
I would also just tell you, it just makes me really glad that we've gone through this pivot to really become an omnichannel retailer. I think customers are really looking for this combination of physical and digital assets when it comes to buying a car. It's a big competitive moat that we built, and it's very hard to replicate. If you're going to get into the used car business, there's a lot that has to be considered.
Operator (participant)
Thank you. Your next question comes from the line of Chris Pierce with Needham. Your line is open.
Chris Pierce (Senior Analyst)
Hey, good morning, everyone.
Bill Nash (CEO)
Good morning.
Chris Pierce (Senior Analyst)
This is Pierce. As you move kind of more into 6 to 10 less late model because of the opening of the credit spectrum, is that an opportunity for, are you competing against dealers you haven't traditionally competed against at a larger rate, and there's potential for a new set of share gains, or is like the 6 to 8-year-old car now what used to be the 2 to 4-year-old car because of what's happened with new car production? Like, is this a new competitive set, or is it just kind of continuation of the dealers you've been competing against for years now?
Bill Nash (CEO)
Yeah. You know, I think, look, we've always sold 1 to 10-year-old cars. I think, you know, the, and I talked a little bit about this earlier, the biggest thing that we want to make sure that we do is that whatever we put the CarMax label on, it meets our quality standards. You know, when you start getting into the 6 to 10 population, there's a lot of vehicles that just don't meet the CarMax standards, and we're just not going to, we're not going to, you know, flinch on that standard. That being said, though, we've obviously built the muscle to continue to produce that type of car and get it up to the CarMax standard. You know, what I would say is it's continuing to compete in the space that we've been in.
Quite honestly, you know, it's a space where there's a lot of transactions that happen. You know, I talked about the P2P, you know, consumer-to-consumer selling each other, especially in the 7, 8, 9-year-old, 10-year-old cars. There's a lot of vehicles in there that just, well, it's in the denominator. It's not going to necessarily be in our numerator set. It's just not going to be able to be brought up to the quality standard. I think that's the thing to think about.
I think the way it enhances is, you know, again, if consumers are challenged on just everyday expenses and they're trying to figure out how to work a budget and they need to, you know, they would traditionally buy a 3 or 4-year-old car, they may be saying, "Okay, I'm going to buy a 6 or 7-year-old car," and we want to be able to meet that need. I think it's very similar to the folks that are thinking they're going to buy a new car, and they realize, "I can't get the new car to work in my monthly payment. I'm going to go down to a 1 or 2-year-old late model car." I think it's just a kind of an evolution of the business and where the consumer's going.
Jon Daniels (EVP)
Just one thing.
Chris Pierce (Senior Analyst)
You're on that.
Bill Nash (CEO)
Yeah. Actually, I know what you're going to say.
Jon Daniels (EVP)
Yeah. Just one thing I wanted to clarify, Chris. You made the comments, you know, as you go full spectrum and go 6-10, I think they're relatively disconnected. The fact that CAF is going full spectrum, all we're doing is likely taking some volume from our tier two and tier three partners. We will drive some incremental sales. You know, our tier two, tier three, even our tier one players love 6-10-year-old cars. So, you know, I'd separate the inventory needs that we have from where CAF is playing in the credit spectrum.
Bill Nash (CEO)
As well as they love zero to four.
Jon Daniels (EVP)
Absolutely.
Bill Nash (CEO)
It goes back and forth.
Jon Daniels (EVP)
Absolutely.
Bill Nash (CEO)
I'm glad you made that point, Jon.
Chris Pierce (Senior Analyst)
Okay. Just to follow up on that, though, is there, can it be thought of as a GPU tailwind as you move into these, I do not want to say move into these older cars, but maybe as you sell it?
Bill Nash (CEO)
Yeah. Yeah. I'm sorry. If you asked, I didn't catch that part of the question. So a GPU tailwind. Look, when you sell older vehicles, they cost more to recondition, but especially in CarMax's case, they're kind of like a unicorn, you know, where it's at the CarMax quality standard. It certainly isn't a commodity. We think the quality is better than others. You know, those do bring a little bit more margin.
Chris Pierce (Senior Analyst)
Okay. Thank you.
Bill Nash (CEO)
Thank you.
Operator (participant)
Thank you. Your next question comes from the line of David Whiston with Morningstar. Your line is open.
David Whiston (Senior Equity Analyst)
Thanks. Good morning. Can you just talk a little bit more about the decision-making process to change the 2 million goal where you just withdrew the timeline completely as opposed to saying, "Given macro factors, we think it'll be more like fiscal 2030"? Because doing it the way you did, it just seems like it's a bit more pessimistic. Maybe that was intentional or maybe it wasn't. I just wanted to get more clarification. Thanks.
Bill Nash (CEO)
Yeah. It definitely wasn't pessimistic. Look, I think the important thing right now is everybody should know that we're focused on driving sales and driving robust EPS growth. Look, there are a lot of macro factors. If you see, and I'll give you a prime example. If you see highly appreciating market, you can get to the $30 billion way quicker. It's really nothing that we've done at this point. Same thing as if you see a slowdown, it may delay the total unit. Right now, there's just so much uncertainty out there. Why put a target out there that's really speculative, not knowing exactly where this environment is going to go? We just think that that's the prudent thing. It does not take the focus on what we're going after and those targets.
It's just, it doesn't make sense to put a range on them at this point.
Enrique Mayor-Mora (CFO)
Yeah. And just to build on that, like even in our earnings release, you'll notice like we are focused on growing sales and focused on growing the bottom line. I think that's what's important in this kind of environment. At the appropriate time, we'll come back with a timing outlook as well. We just need some more stability in what's out there. Again, we are focused on driving sales and driving profitability.
David Whiston (Senior Equity Analyst)
Yeah. Thanks, guys.
Operator (participant)
Thank you. As a reminder, if you would like to ask a question today, please press the star and one on your telephone keypad now. Your next question comes from the line of John Murphy with Bank of America. Your line is open.
John Murphy (Managing Director)
Sorry, guys. I just wanted to sneak one follow-up in. I understand that the long-term goals have been postponed here in the guidance, but you did reiterate the earnings per share growth model, you know, give an update there. When you talk about double-digit earnings per share growth for years to come, you're talking about sort of mid, you know, that has to come with, you know, you'll get a CAGR of high teens on EPS with unit growth in the mid-single digits. I'm just curious, when you think about that, does that include the normalization of SG&A from this 90% range back down to 70%, or is that after that's happened? Because it's just because if you're taking SG&A down to back to the normal level, I mean, you're really kind of taking some of the growth capital, you know, that you're putting into the model, which makes sense.
I'm just curious, is this kind of run rate basis once we've gotten back to 70-75% SG&A to gross, or does that include the normalization from 90% down to 70% in that statement?
Enrique Mayor-Mora (CFO)
Yeah. Like over time, we expect to get back to the mid-70s. You know, it's going to take us some time to get there. All of that's factored into the guidance that we're providing, right? We expect that, again, with mid-single digit retail unit growth, we'd expect a CAGR of high teen EPS growth. There's an assumption of SG&A kind of ramping down over time, but that's embedded in that guidance.
John Murphy (Managing Director)
To be fair, the mid-70, the gap between, you know, 90% and mid-70s, you know, that's analogous to sort of CapEx or growth capital. That's, you know, shouldn't be viewed as operating. I'm just trying to understand, is this something that on an operating basis you think you can do once, you know, regardless of that normalization of SG&A?
Bill Nash (CEO)
Look, John, you know, unless we got some robust volume this year, I can't see us getting back to the mid-70s this year yet. You know, we stand by what the model. We feel really good about the momentum and think that we can provide great robust EPS growth even in the range that we're at right now.
Enrique Mayor-Mora (CFO)
Yeah. Again, the timing of getting back to the mid-70s is embedded in that guidance. What I tell you is that you mentioned 90, you know, 91% where we ended this quarter relative to mid-70s. Q4 is the high point of SG&A as a percent of gross profit. For the year, we were in the low 80s, right? Just as a point of clarification.
John Murphy (Managing Director)
Okay. All right. Thank you very much.
Enrique Mayor-Mora (CFO)
Thank you.
Operator (participant)
Thank you. Your next question comes from the line of Rajat Gupta with JPMorgan Chase & Co. Your line is open.
Rajat Gupta (Analyst)
Great. Thanks for aligning with your answer. I have a follow-up. I just wanted to clarify because we've gotten some like advance like through the course of the call, you know, just on the comments around CAF and provisioning. I understand the mechanics around the first quarter step up fairly. Just curious, like was the suggestion from Jon that, you know, that level of provisioning will continue through the remainder of the year or into Q2, Q3, or it was just the fact that, you know, you're increasing the subprime mix or the tier zero tier mix that will continue? Just wanted to make sure we're tying those two comments appropriately. Thanks.
Jon Daniels (EVP)
Yeah. Happy to clarify that, Rajat. Appreciate the question. Yeah, I think if you couple the two things, the larger one really in Q1 is certainly the step up in volume and the lower credit quality nature of Q1. That is going to be the real big driver of the significant growth in the Q1 provision, again, as compared to the Q4 provision referring to. Yes, you tack on to there the fact that we are going to capture 100-150 basis points back at obviously a highly profitable, but at a higher loss reserve requirement. So higher provisioning there. Now that 100-150 basis points we anticipate keeping through subsequent quarters. Again, on the back half, we look to tack on more as we continue our testing in the tier two and tier three space.
That will add further, again, different seasonality in different quarters. I just want you to keep in mind that, you know, that added penetration, added volume from CAF going deeper has to be factored into your provisioning going forward. Again, long run, it's a win, but I want you to keep that in mind. Of course, always the overarching comment of we will watch the macroeconomic situation and decide what we do, but I want you to make sure you keep the added penetration in mind in subsequent quarters.
Bill Nash (CEO)
The other thing I would just add to that, Rajat, because you said something about subprime mix. I mean, what Jon's talking about here in the near term is taking back stuff that we were originating earlier. Not, I just want to be clear, it's not going into subprime. It's basically pulling stuff back in that we had passed off to our tier two partners. Now, later in the year, when we decide to go deeper into tier two and tier three, then you could see a little bit of that. I just wanted to make that distinction.
Rajat Gupta (Analyst)
Understood. Thanks so much for clarifying that. Thanks again and good luck.
Bill Nash (CEO)
Thank you.
Jon Daniels (EVP)
Thank you.
Operator (participant)
Thank you. Your next question comes from the line of Michael Montani with Evercore ISI. Your line is open.
Michael Montani (Managing Director)
Yes, hi. Thanks for letting me sneak another one in. I was just hoping, could you clarify a little bit more what the Edmunds lease impairment charge was for? Then secondly, when could we think about, you know, the added penetration turning into a win? I guess more specifically, can you grow CAF profits if provisioning has to step up that much for this year?
Enrique Mayor-Mora (CFO)
Yeah. I'll take the first one. We have a couple of floors in the Edmunds Santa Monica headquarter that we've been actively trying to sublease really since we acquired them. It has been a hard market in L.A, as you can imagine. More recently, an elementary school was impacted by the L.A. fires, unfortunately, and they were in need of space. We ended up subleasing one of the floors to them. We were able to find a subleaser while helping the community. It really was a win-win situation. That kind of is what drove the impairment there.
Jon Daniels (EVP)
Yeah. I see your second question, you know, do we see, given the provision growth in cap income, short answer is absolutely yes. We see growth in FY '26 for cap income on top of the provision that comes from strong net interest margins, obviously managing our expenses and all of that. Yeah, we absolutely see growth within the year and then obviously strong growth beyond that as the provision is trumped by the overall income we're going to gain.
Michael Montani (Managing Director)
Understood. Thanks for the clarity.
Operator (participant)
Thank you. We do not have any further questions at this time. I'll hand the call back to Bill for any closing remarks.
Bill Nash (CEO)
Thank you all for joining the call today and for your questions and support. Again, I want to just congratulate all of our associates for how they have built and enhanced our great culture and for everything they do to take care of each other, our customers, and our communities. We will talk again next quarter. Thank you.
Operator (participant)
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, that concludes the fourth quarter fiscal year 2025 CarMax earnings release conference call. You may now disconnect.