Las Vegas Sands - Q1 2012

Transcript

Operator (participant)

Good afternoon. My name is Ashley, and I will be your conference operator today. At this time, I would like to welcome everyone to the Las Vegas Sands Corporate First Quarter Earnings Conference Call. All lines have been placed on mute to prevent any background noise. After the speaker's remarks, there will be a question and answer session. If you would like to ask a question during this time, simply press star and the number one on your telephone keypad. If you would like to withdraw your question, press the pound key. Thank you. I would now like to turn the conference over to Mr. Daniel Briggs, Vice President of Investor Relations. Mr. Briggs, you may begin your conference.

Daniel Briggs (VP of Investor Relations)

Thank you, operator. Before I turn the call over to Mr. Adelson, let me remind you that today's conference call will contain forward-looking statements that we are making under the safe harbor provisions of federal securities laws. The company's actual results could differ materially from the anticipated results in those forward-looking statements. Please see today's press release under the caption "Forward-Looking Statements" for a discussion of risks that may affect our results. In addition, we may discuss adjusted net income, adjusted diluted EPS, and adjusted property EBITDA, which are non-GAAP measures. A definition and a reconciliation of each of these measures to the most comparable GAAP financial measures are included in the press release. Please note that this presentation is being recorded. With that, let me please introduce our Chairman, Mr. Sheldon G. Adelson.

Sheldon G. Adelson (Chairman and CEO)

Thank you all for joining us today. Before we go to Q&A, let me make some brief opening remarks. I want to apologize in advance if you hear some paper rattling because I've got several papers that people have given me. I'm trying to take information from paper. We're very pleased with the overall financial results for the quarter. As you saw in the press release, we have set an all-time industry-wide record. No company in our industry has ever achieved $1 billion EBITDA for a quarter. We're very proud of that, and we hope it'll be the first of many records. We know it's the first of many records that we're already setting, and we hope it'll be the beginning of a continuation of a lot more records that we're going to set.

We also, we went up, the earnings per share went up 89% from last year to $0.70. Now, I know there were a lot of estimates coming out in the $0.50s, in the $0.52, $0.53. I even saw an analyst last night that jumped his estimate the day before our earnings release from $0.56-$0.61 or something like that. That was probably the highest. Our net revenue, after quoting the GAAP, net revenue increased 31% to $2.76 billion. Now, frankly, the gross revenue was somewhat higher, and I've been having discussions with our auditors, Vice Whitehouse, as to why the industry records net. If I've read the rules regarding it under FASB, the Financial Accounting Standards Board, under the rules, I've read that, and I have some question about that. In any event, it would be up to $3 point something billion.

The EBITDA margin is an industry-leading EBITDA margin of 38.6%. In the case of Macau, we have results that are in excess of our core fair share. This is the 11th consecutive quarter of EBITDA growth, and I have the chart in front of me, and it comes to a whopping, instead of CAGR, C-A-G-R, compound annual growth rate. We've got, I don't know how to pronounce it, CAGR.

Kenneth Kay (CFO)

CAGR.

Sheldon G. Adelson (Chairman and CEO)

CAGR. Compound quarterly growth rate of 14.2% from quarter-to-quarter. I'm looking at a bar chart. For the last 11 quarters, we've gone from $247.6 million EBITDA to $1.07 billion EBITDA. I suppose that might have surprised a few of you guys because nobody even approached a $1 billion, and most of the analyst projections were in the, there were even some in the $800 million, some in the low $900 million. In earnings per share, we had a 47.1% increase in earnings per share. In gross revenue, we had a 9.4% increase, and in net revenue, we had a 9.1% increase. Let me look at our two biggest markets. Business in Macau has never been in a stronger position. Our mass business is growing, our VIP efforts are working, and our non-gaming revenue, the backbone of the integrated resort model, also increased significantly.

We've had record consolidated non-loaning drop of $1.92 billion, up 10% versus 2011. We're cooking on all cylinders. We've had record consolidated slot handle of 53% to $2.1 billion. Retail mall revenue increased 30% versus last year, and I'd like to address the issue that somebody talked about, that we were filling up or loading up our books to show more, to show more income, more retail income in the fourth quarter of the year. Let me point something out to you. In the United States, I've seen figures that, and you guys would probably know better than I, but I'm only going by memory, that 40% of annual sales are done between Thanksgiving and Christmas. The larger percentage of sales over there are done during these periods. They're in the same period. Hong Kong does not have exactly the same holidays that the mainland does.

There are a lot of Christians in Hong Kong. There's a lot of Christmas shopping going on from different visitors to Macau. The interesting part about it is that it's natural that in the fourth quarter, because of the, our relationship with the, there is no trilling up. We don't do trill-ups. Where something is required to do a trill-up, we'll do it. This is not a policy, nor a practice, to say we're going to pump up the figures in the last quarter of the year. The reason why the last period of the year is because that's when people exceed the percentage, it's called the natural breakpoint, where they exceed the percentage of revenue that constitutes the base rent. They go beyond the natural breakpoint, and therefore they go into excess rent.

We get excess rent during that period, and that is why substantially more during that fourth quarter than there are in other quarters, because we break through the percentage barrier. There are some retailers that pay percentage on a monthly basis because they're doing so much more than the basic rent, and there are some retailers that, the majority of the retailers, of the several hundred retailers we have, record on a monthly basis, or some that report quarterly. I think there's even some that report on an annual basis. As far as retail is concerned, there is no trilling up. The percentages and the income is the way that it occurs. Hotel revenue is up 19% versus last year, and we will have 10,000 hotel rooms before this time next year.

Our plans are that we will open the second phase, Phase IIA, of Cotai Central by mid-September, and I think the last phase will go to either December or January, probably January. That'll give us a total of close to 10,000 rooms, and that represents probably 50% of the hotel room supply in the entire city of Macau. As far as four-star, five-star rooms are concerned, we're way up there with a high percentage anyway. Referring to what's going on in Singapore, we had another very strong quarter. The mass win per day increased 21% to $4.47 million per day. The mass win, the rooming volume was up 26% over last year's quarter one. I'd like to address questions that have been brought up before where people think that we've plateaued or the market has plateaued.

Let me point out to you that if you take 73% of about $34 billion that was conducted in Macau in 2011, you come to about $25 billion of high-roll, of VIP players. Now, all those players, those come down to, they don't represent the fertile opportunity that 100% of those VIP players are going to come to Singapore on one weekend. There will be a turnover, there'll be a revolving number of people coming from Macau, just like those people that are going to Macau that typically also go to Las Vegas. They go to Sydney, Australia, they go to Melbourne, they go to other places to play. They will typically, there is a very healthy market of $25 billion of VIP play that occurred in 2011 or already a quarter beyond that.

That represents a truly fertile opportunity for us to increase and to get beyond what people think potentially is a plateau in the number of VIP players. We are constantly surprised at who they are, the number of people, how they come out of the woodwork, and how many there are in the world. There was a time, many years ago, 10, 15 years ago, that people thought that in the entire world there were as few as 150 VIP players. We sometimes get that in a few days, a week or two weeks or whatever. There are an awful lot of people that are playing all around the world and from many different countries that nobody ever thought of before. The word plateau in terms of Asia is not in our vocabulary. Let's see. The high margin segments continued to grow.

Our hotel room revenue was up 38% over 2011, and our mall revenue was up 25% over 2011. As in Macau, Marina Bay Sands also achieved a new record property EBITDA of $473 million. Clearly, if you look at the last 11 quarters, you see we've grown an average of 14.2% quarter-to-quarter in a

Kenneth Kay (CFO)

compound quarterly

Sheldon G. Adelson (Chairman and CEO)

compound quarter.

One of those.

If you look at that, we're just going to continue quarter by quarter. I know there are a lot of people out there, there's some analysts out there who I've seen that seem to suggest that they either are playing on a quarter-to-quarter basis. This company is out to attract long-term value investors. Investors who want to invest in a company that pays dividends, investors that want to be in a special company, and in that respect, let me read to you, at our September Investor Day that we had in New York, we read out, there were six companies that fit into several categories. I'll tell you there's fewer than that today, but let me tell you what they are. There are 12,222 publicly traded companies on U.S. exchanges. The next category is market capitalization.

There are 155 over $20 billion, and we are pushing back up against $50 billion. The revenue compound annual growth rate of over 20%, there were 12 companies. Starting off with 12,000+ companies, we're now down to 12 that have compound annual growth of 20%. In 2013, estimated free cash flow that will yield 7.5%. There are only three companies. Now we're down to 3 out of 12,000. The companies that pay current dividends, all this plus, including companies who pay dividends, there are only two, LVS and Apple. Considering what Apple did today, let's put Apple first and say Apple and LVS. I think it puts us in a very unique position for me to consider a value investment.

The next item I'd like to address is that somebody came up with the idea that there was going to be a seventh concession there in Macau. I don't know whether it has been reading the press or looking at press clippings or talking to the government, or listening to the government. The government has said both in the prior Chief Executive administration and the current administration, 2009 was the year they were going to reconsider it. They said, "No, no, no." If there's anybody that doesn't understand what no means, please give me a call offline. I'll be happy to explain it to you. There was also somebody who said that, somebody speculated that we're going to have to move 386 or some odd number of tables from our other properties. Let me address that.

On a daily basis, we are always shuffling tables around, moving them from one place to the other, changing the game of play from, say, a blackjack to a baccarat, or vice versa. We're always trying, on a good operational basis, to improve performance of every one of our products, whether it's a table, a slot, or an ETGs. We always move tables around, both within each property and in between properties. Now, we have to get approval from the government every time we move it, so we do that. The government is committed to our lenders to provide 400 tables. They gave us 200 tables for the opening of the first of the two mass casinos, and they're going to give us, presumably, the second 200 tables when we go to open our second casino. The casino in March 6 is part of Cotai Central.

I don't know how somebody knows so much about the government. For those people that are interested in, that know more than we know, and maybe even ostensibly more than the government knows, if you'd like to apply for a job with us as a government relations person, maybe we can improve our flow of information in a more qualitative way. I'd also like to straighten out another issue, and that is, there's been a lot of mention of $35 billion that we're going to spend in Europe, for Europe, in Spain, for the European market. That figure was taken from a press conference that I conducted at the opening of Sands Cotai Central, on April 11, where I answered the question vis-à-vis what was the total project cost. I'd like to explain that so we can put that issue, that false issue, to bear once and for all.

We're going to build the property, at least that's the way it's planned, over a nine-year period. That will include building four 3,000-room hotel integrated resorts every three years. The first one will start off, and we're only estimating that. We didn't have it. We haven't brought up plans. We don't have the blueprints. We don't know exactly. We've had a quantity survey, as these are independent estimators, to construction give us numbers. The most we can estimate at this time is that each property will go between $2 billion and $3 billion per property. So it would be from $8 billion-$12 billion. As Ken Kay announced in the September Investor Day meeting, 25%-35% of that will be equity. Let's say the largest amount of money this company would be expected to put out over a three-year period is $4 billion in equity, not $35 billion.

That's only the first phase. I want to make it clear for about the 942nd time that I've said to the market, we will not go into any development where we don't see a 20% cash-on-cash return. I repeat that for this, the 974th, 975th time. No investment without a 20% cash-on-cash return. We'll take the money that we're earning in Phase I, and then we'll have another three years to take that amount of money that we're earning to put up for the equity for Phase II. So far, we're up to about, give or take, $3 billion-$4 billion in equity. In phases one and two, we'll earn enough money over the following three years so that we can finance almost fully Phase III. Somewhere we're at $4 billion. If anybody else has any arithmetic over and above that, I'd be happy to receive that.

This is what I know we're going to do, and since I'm the CEO and Chairman, our board has agreed with this. This has been discussed item for item within our own company, and that's what we intend to do. 20% cash-on-cash return. Otherwise, we don't go. Equity goes up for the first phase only, and the equity we earn for the second phase will come out of the first phase operating margins. I don't think I could be any clearer than that. Let me finish by talking about our development activities, and then we'll open up to questions. Two weeks ago, we opened the first phase of Sands Cotai Central.

As it ramps up, Cotai Central will add to the critical mass of rooms, retail, MICE to the Cotai Strip, which will make it an international destination for leisure, business, and conventions, and it will validate my original vision for what was a swamp and a bay. If anybody wants to see the pictures of what it was at the time, we'll be happy to send it to you. Just send me an email. We will then have accomplished the establishment of a Las Vegas in Asia, or as I've said many times before, Asia's Las Vegas. What we intend to do in that respect will have Europe's Las Vegas. It will either be called Europa Vegas or EuroVegas or something like that. That's it. I think that, let me look at my papers.

I'd like to tell you that in terms of Macau, we're extremely happy with the progress we're making in Macau. As I've said in my last couple of earnings calls, we expect that our market share with Sands Cotai Central, which, by the way, is the only product opening over the next three years. The only product opening. There is no other construction underway. I'd like to also point to something else because everybody that didn't want the product, didn't want Cotai in the first place because they didn't think it was either ready or they didn't think it was viable. For whatever reason, all those people that didn't want to have a piece of land in Cotai now will cut off their arms to get a piece of land in Cotai. I just want to remind everybody we bought, we paid for, and we own, Lot 3.

Lot 3 can hold 3,600 rooms. We are applying to the government for permission to move forward with that, and of course, that will require an extension of time to build. I might also point out that not in the history of Macau has the government ever required a piece of land because somebody didn't build on time. The government is a very cooperative, accommodating government, and the government wants, likes, they attribute the change in Macau to a leisure business, prevention destination to Sands China Ltd., and that's in our majority-owned subsidiary, and of course, our parent company, Las Vegas Sands Corporation. They know that we've done more.

As a matter of fact, I saw an equipment recently that said that Pansy's old position in the government or made a statement that the government shouldn't require her to put up prevention space and shopping space and this and that and everything because The Venetian has done such a good job on it that she didn't have to add to the MICE space that has to be done. We have the biggest footprint in Macau in terms of hotel rooms, MICE space, retail, and they're all important visitation drivers. There were no other development activities. The government has not approved any development, and to the best of my knowledge, no land has been transferred to anybody except Galaxy. See, got the land at about the same time that we did.

One of the quick things they're going to announce, the rumors are they're going to announce a non-gaming hotel, more rooms, and on the balance of the land, and I understand they're putting an extra one exhibition center so they could take advantage of filling up some of the rooms from our MICE business. That's it. I can't, a very viable only one of two out of 12,223 companies. I just want to tell you that our whole team is here listening, and we'd be happy to answer your questions at this time.

Operator (participant)

Ladies and gentlemen.

Sheldon G. Adelson (Chairman and CEO)

Operator, let's go to the questions.

Operator (participant)

Ladies and gentlemen, if you would like to ask a question, please press star then the number one on your telephone keypad. Again, that is star then the number one to ask a question. We'll pause for just a moment to compile the Q&A roster. Our first question comes from the line of Joseph Greff with JPMorgan.

Joseph Greff (Managing Director and Senior Research Analyst)

Hey, guys. Good afternoon. This doesn't get to be my first question, Sheldon, but since you brought up the topic of Spain, have you entered into a memorandum of understanding with either Madrid or Barcelona? Do you know what the gaming tax rate is, the corporate tax rate? I know you were trying to get some concessions on labor and things like that. I guess how far along are you?

Sheldon G. Adelson (Chairman and CEO)

We are at the point where I'm going to fly our Board of Directors over. It's a very big decision. We've got to look at an agreement in Barcelona, and let's say we're on the cusp of having a decision. I'm just having a little difficulty in getting the whole board schedule to be worked out. On any one day, somebody isn't available. We'll take as many board members as we can as soon as we can. I hope that we can, I'm looking forward to having a decision whether where it's going to be located and which parcel of land we're going to select, maybe in the next month or so. I'm just going to go to our next gaming section.

Mike Leven (President and COO)

Joe, this is Mike Leven here. Negotiations continue with both the government of Barcelona and Madrid. We expect those negotiations to not only continue, but at some point, once we make the city decision, those negotiations that we agree upon go to legislation for various legislators of the various government involved. At that particular time, when that legislation goes to the governments, it becomes public knowledge as to what's going to be happening.

Sheldon G. Adelson (Chairman and CEO)

What I'd like to say is that it'll be, and I do.

I said of a higher way because of.

Okay.

Speaker 14

Yeah, I'm doing that. I'm sorry.

Sheldon G. Adelson (Chairman and CEO)

We've structured our deal that we earn it, we bring it to the table, and everybody else can do business.

Speaker 14

I'm doing it.

Sheldon G. Adelson (Chairman and CEO)

It's going to be a way to spend. It'll be.

Speaker 14

Yeah, I'm doing it. I'm doing it.

Joseph Greff (Managing Director and Senior Research Analyst)

Okay, and then switching topics to a single point, then I have a follow-up. Obviously, your competitor.

Sheldon G. Adelson (Chairman and CEO)

I just want to clear that. I don't want this finished government to get a different opinion. It'll be a favorable rate compared to other jurisdictions throughout the world.

Joseph Greff (Managing Director and Senior Research Analyst)

Okay. And then switching over to a question on Singapore, I have a quick follow-up after that. Obviously, Genting got two junkets approved for their property. Can you share with us your strategy or your position, whether or not you're sponsoring any applications in the near term and what your views are there with the use of junkets or IMAs there? I have a quick follow-up.

Sheldon G. Adelson (Chairman and CEO)

Let me address, Joe. This is Joe, right?

Joseph Greff (Managing Director and Senior Research Analyst)

Yes.

Sheldon G. Adelson (Chairman and CEO)

It's very interesting. When I was at the opening, another analyst, a colleague of yours, I don't know if it was JPMorgan, came over to me and he said they talked about the advantage that RWS has. Let me explain to you. You got to understand what they mean by international marketing agents, and they specifically did not call them junket reps. The junket rep in Macau does three primary services. One, brings the customer. Two, provides and collects the credit. Three, shares commission with the customer. Four, somehow or other gets the money to us. Now, in Singapore, as we read the rules and regulations, the junket rep cannot share commission with anybody else. That takes away a major incentive for the junket reps to be, for players to go through junket reps because there is a sharing of the commission. Secondly, they can't give out credit.

That kills something else. We compare the over 100 field salespeople that we have in various offices, particularly around Asia, with those two junket reps because our customers can, our field salespeople can go out and bring in customers and get paid on a basis of productivity. Rob, probably a lot of detail you're not interested in is how they get paid, but the bottom line is that they don't get a percentage of the world. They don't share any of their commission. They've called junket reps here in Las Vegas, and now the Las Vegas-style junket rep is a field sales guy who gets a limited amount of money for bringing in a player based upon the theoretical play that the player plays, a theoretical win. In Singapore, they call them international marketing agents because that's all they are.

They're salespeople that bring in a customer, and I suppose they get paid. They can't provide credit. They can't share the commission. They're the equivalent of our more than 100 salespeople. We don't see that RWS has any advantage over us. For those kinds of international marketing agents, we already have over 100 of the equivalent of the function of those two international marketing agents. What are we going after them for? Let me be clear. That's the third one. There's no reason for us to go after that kind of junket, that kind of IMA.

Joseph Greff (Managing Director and Senior Research Analyst)

Okay. My final question, and maybe Ken, you can help me out here. What was the positive hold impact on EBITDA in Singapore and in Las Vegas? That'll be it for me.

Sheldon G. Adelson (Chairman and CEO)

She was addressing the question here. Frankly, I didn't hear the question.

Kenneth Kay (CFO)

No, the question was on the hold, the hold for.

Sheldon G. Adelson (Chairman and CEO)

Oh, okay. Let me tell you what we've done. We have, I keep telling people it isn't a quarterly hold rate, whether it's plus or minus, that should be adjusted. If the hold rate is 3.3%, 3.5%, 4%, you got to bring it back down to 2.85%. We have prepared documents that show a 200-day moving average. The 200-day moving average was 2.85% company-wide. It was a higher percentage in Singapore. I'm sorry, I don't have it in front of me. Somebody added they didn't give it to me. Oh, I think Ken is, somebody's about to give it to me. Let's see. The total Macau properties is 2.90%, and Marina, oh, for, sorry, yeah, for 04/20, well, I can't get it to 04/21. I can only, because that includes part of the second quarter, I can only go to the end of the first quarter.

Joseph Greff (Managing Director and Senior Research Analyst)

You can give us the second quarter to date numbers.

Sheldon G. Adelson (Chairman and CEO)

The moving average is 2.90%, and Marina Bay Sands, total Macau and Singapore properties 2.85% on a 200-day moving average. That's what counts. If somebody wants to go to a more rapid evaluation, I'd like to hold a contest. We can have people guess on a quarterly basis, on a monthly basis, on a weekly basis, on a daily basis, an hourly basis, and minute by minute. I would provide a multi-million dollar prize for anybody who can guess and determine where our entire company is going based upon win or loss or percentage of hold on a minute-to-minute basis. Just being sarcastic about that. 03/31, total Macau and Singapore properties, 3.05%. Next question.

Operator (participant)

Our next question comes from our line of Shaun Kelley with Bank of America.

Shaun Kelley (Managing Director and Senior Research Analyst)

Hi, good afternoon. I wanted to ask a little bit more about, you know, Cotai Central. I understand, you know, that the property's only been open for 15 days, but I did want to see if, you know, you guys could give us any of your, just, you know, your early thoughts on, you know, any metrics that are coming out of the property, and also, maybe most importantly, kind of what you're learning about cannibalization across the other properties. Are you seeing any impact at some of your other resorts?

Sheldon G. Adelson (Chairman and CEO)

I keep talking about cannibalization. I keep telling everybody the critical mass in a supply-driven industry brings in more people. It doesn't cannibalize others. We are trying to cannibalize our competitors and not cannibalize ourselves. I cannot talk about anything that has occurred since April 1st because that's in the current quarter, and I urge you to call this number again, maybe a different number, 90 days from now, and we'll give you all the information you want.

Shaun Kelley (Managing Director and Senior Research Analyst)

Okay, great.

Sheldon G. Adelson (Chairman and CEO)

I got to tell you, I see no reason that our 14.2% growth per quarter of the 11th quarter is worth a 10-year because every quarter we do the earnings call, everybody. By the way, for all except four of those quarters, it's all organic growth. We opened up Singapore, it became organic with us, became a legacy property, and from that point on, it was growing, I think, more than 14.2%. Over the last 11 quarters, it's a straight 14.2% quarterly. No further.

Shaun Kelley (Managing Director and Senior Research Analyst)

Okay. We'll.

Sheldon G. Adelson (Chairman and CEO)

That's Cotai Central. All you have to do is look at our history, look at the position that we occupy in the market. I don't see any other company earning $1.07 billion, $1 billion, $1.07 billion EBITDA for one quarter, so there must be something we're doing.

Shaun Kelley (Managing Director and Senior Research Analyst)

We understand. We'll check back on that.

Sheldon G. Adelson (Chairman and CEO)

Thank you.

Shaun Kelley (Managing Director and Senior Research Analyst)

I guess the second would be on Singapore. I just wanted to ask, you know, there's a lot of questions around sequential improvement in the market and some of the seasonality there. It does look like volumes came back on the VIP side. I just wanted to kind of get a sense of, you know, historically, if you look at visitation patterns, Q1 and Q3 kind of look like they'll be the strongest. Does that still seem like a reasonable expectation as we think about modeling what you guys are seeing there? How much do you think Chinese New Year really drove some of the activity now that you guys have had a chance to digest that?

Sheldon G. Adelson (Chairman and CEO)

Frankly, I'm not as smart as Goldstein. I think he understood the question better than I did. Same thing for Mike Leven. Do you guys want to answer Mike's question? Because I don't understand it.

Robert Goldstein (President and COO)

On the gaming side, that's why I think we obviously, you can never underestimate the impact of Chinese New Year's. Obviously, that's our bread and butter quarter in Asia, and there's no discount. We did show nice growth. I think, year on year, we're pleased with that. Again, we're only in our ninth quarter of operating there, so it's hard to predict seasonality and even more difficult to underestimate the importance of all the new infrastructure such as the cruise ship terminal, increased growth to China and Singapore in general, the mass market growth out of both Indonesia and Malaysia. I think we're very confident that if you look at Singapore and its position in the market, it's a very, very exciting place to travel for the Asians, especially newly affluent Asians. I think it continues to grow both in the VIP and mass side.

Again, being one of two competitors there is a huge advantage. The duopoly situation is hugely advantageous for us and RWS. Singapore's got a new court record for its results-wise. I don't think there's any question of growth for Singapore in the future. It's hard for me to determine except for the Chinese figures that are first and third quarters of the other quarter. Fourth is obviously challenged as the summer's in there, but we see bright days ahead with the cruise ship terminal, with the Botanical Gardens, the growth of tourism infrastructure, etc., and the affluence throughout Asia. I think it bodes well for our outlook at once.

Shaun Kelley (Managing Director and Senior Research Analyst)

Okay. Thanks, Rob. I guess last question, maybe for you as well, just got a few questions from investors on the margins of the Four Seasons. Obviously, there's some negative mix from all the junket initiatives, but I guess the question is, is this probably a reasonable run rate in the low 20%, just given kind of where the junket business has stabilized, or is there anything else in that number that people should be aware of? That's it.

Robert Goldstein (President and COO)

Good question to ask. I'm glad you asked it. The Four Seasons had, first of all, there's a non-gaming variable in there. The fourth quarter versus first quarter was down about $13 million as it relates to our retail operations. I can't, I won't go into detail why, but suffice to say there's a $13 million quarter-on-quarter miss there. You should know that we are very pleased with what's happened. The Four Seasons' rolling volume is up four times from first quarter of 2011 to first quarter of 2012. We're thrilled about that. Unfortunately, we did experience heavy concentration on our win-based versus volume-based commissions. It cost us about $10 million-$11 million in additional compensation, and that was a big bang to our numbers. Across the entire portfolio, to put your mind at rest, we ran about $800 million of win. We were 11+% in the margin.

We feel good about that. We still probably underperformed about a point. There's concern in the marketplace that I know as it relates to our bonus program. I think it's simple to say that over $800 million of gaming win out of that segment, we did less than $3.2 million. It's $800 million versus $3.2 million out of these few junkets that experienced our bonus program. I think what you're seeing in this, I'm disappointed because I think we thought we had a much better quarter out of The Plaza. We got whipsawed somewhat vis-à-vis the win-based versus volume-based. We got hurt on the retail comparison. I think in the normal operating we should have done, we should have had normalized profit of roughly four times what we did in the first quarter of 2011 and twice what we did in the fourth quarter. I have a lot of confidence.

I think what David has achieved over there, David Sisk, is extraordinary. Our growth for the first time in the junket segment exceeds the market across the board. I see even brighter days ahead for us in that segment as we get stronger in Cotai Central. We have no fears whatsoever that The Plaza is on its way both in the mass, the retail, and especially in the junket segment to performing very, very strong.

Sheldon G. Adelson (Chairman and CEO)

I want to get into the, put aside the retail list. Look, the retail value of our assets is so great that we could almost completely eliminate, on a net, if that were included as cash, and we're able to monetize that, which we don't want to at this point, it would pay off all our debt, and we would essentially be on a net cash basis, including the monetization of retail debt-free. I want to point out to you that the gross, I don't understand your take. One of our four properties, and to make an evaluation, that's liable to hurt, but we could get down as silly as estimating the impact of every hour's worth of activity. I want to point out that from the first quarter of 2012, our gross gaming revenue went up 32%. Our gross rolling revenue went up 40%.

That was helped by a big jump in the Four Seasons and The Plaza Casino. Our non-rolling table revenue went up 19%, and our slot revenue went up 21%. Those are the numbers. If you want to, we think it would be an exaggeration to say that one of the properties didn't perform as good as somebody expected, that everything has gone to hell in a handbasket. I would strongly suggest that would be an overreaction, over-exaggeration to the reality. We've got a 14.2% quarter-to-quarter EBITDA, and that's what really counts.

Robert Goldstein (President and COO)

Sean, just to close the door on that, first quarter of 2011, we rolled about $2.375 million. We should have made $8 million. We did make $8 million on that. This year, we rolled $10.7 million. We should have made $39 million normalized if you take out all the variations. You know, it's $230 million+ year-on-year growth in that segment, profit-wise. From that, my way of thinking is just great, and I think we're going to be very strong in that segment.

Kenneth Kay (CFO)

Rob, you're talking about the junket segment right there in that discussion.

Robert Goldstein (President and COO)

Yes.

Kenneth Kay (CFO)

Just junket, without direct VIP.

Robert Goldstein (President and COO)

Our mass market business in The Plaza is off the chart. We should get more tables in there.

Shaun Kelley (Managing Director and Senior Research Analyst)

Got it. Thank you for all the extra color. Really appreciate it.

Operator (participant)

Our next question comes from the line of Mark Strong with Morgan Stanley.

Mark Strawn (Executive Director of Equity Research)

Hi, guys. Just one question for me. On the mass side in Macau, the business is growing nicely there on a sequential and a year-over-year basis, but I'm still growing slightly slower than the overall market. Could you talk about what kind of steps you're taking to narrow?

Sheldon G. Adelson (Chairman and CEO)

a longer-term basis, that's true, but in this quarter, we grew in excess of our fair share.

Mark Strawn (Executive Director of Equity Research)

Okay. Got it. Just trying to think about the steps you're going to take to continue to grow that business and when and how you see Cotai Central contributing to that.

Sheldon G. Adelson (Chairman and CEO)

Tell me more. Keep out of Cotai Central.

For this next quarter.

Robert Goldstein (President and COO)

I think, Mark, we all know there's no confusion here that what this company has is probably the most dramatic opportunity in the history of gaming to be very, very strong in the mass segment. I think we all recognize the junket segment has ruled Macau, has been amazing. Hard to believe the last seven or eight years the growth we've seen. I think the junkets are important. They mix everybody, but everyone can participate in that. I think what LVS has, and we are working hard on, is maximizing our huge table and lodging advantage we have over there because I think at the end of the day, it's about capacity to gamble, a place to sleep, a shopping opportunity, and a place to eat. We have those, in stage across the board. I think that's our future.

I'm back in Macau next month and meeting with the team once again to review how we move forward in every one of our properties to get to that 45% business. As nice as the junket business is, we're thrilled to be doing it, and it's a great business for us. We all know the opportunity. If we do our job and we get 1,000+ mass tables to perform the upper reach of the market at a 45% margin, we'll make these numbers look small. We're very focused on it. We get it. We see it. We are very uniquely advantaged at this point. I think the Cotai opportunity is amazing for us, and that's our focus, and that's where energy's will be.

Sheldon G. Adelson (Chairman and CEO)

I want to point out that we have more tables than one out of six concessionaires. We have far more hotel rooms than one out of six concessionaires. I'm sure we have all the other amenities like my space far and away, hotel rooms far and away, restaurants far and away. It got to the point where, as I said earlier, as Pansy Ho said, we don't have to put in all this stuff because The Venetian is doing it or [audio distortion].

Mark Strawn (Executive Director of Equity Research)

All right, thank you very much.

Operator (participant)

Our next question comes from the line of Jon Oh with CLSA.

Jon Oh (Managing Director)

Hi. I have two questions. I'll start off with Singapore. Sheldon, you mentioned earlier that the IMAs in Singapore are not allowed to extend any credit enhancements. There's not much value to your business. Are you suggesting that you are not planning to work with them?

Sheldon G. Adelson (Chairman and CEO)

We already have 100 of those guys working for us.

Jon Oh (Managing Director)

In Singapore?

Sheldon G. Adelson (Chairman and CEO)

If there is an advantage for us to work through any third party to bring in more business, and that will improve our business, we'll work with them. As I've said earlier, the only things they could do is that exactly which our own 100 or so field salespeople can do. As we understand it, they can't do any more than that. If they cannot, and if we're correct in interpreting the law, if they can't do any more than that, there's no reason for us to work for them, to have them work for us.

Robert Goldstein (President and COO)

Hey, Jon. It's Rob Goldstein. With Sheldon's comment, we spent about a decade developing what we think is the premier team in the business on the customer side as it relates to the high-end, high-net-worth individual. We're really proud of that team. Larry Chu runs it. I think he's the best in business, and I think our team is extraordinary all throughout Asia. Andrew and Mark and the team, Jeremy over in Singapore, have examined and continue to look at all aspects of the junket situation over there, and we'll see where it goes. Sheldon's absolutely right. At this point, we don't see enough importance to jump into that. We'll keep looking at it, and obviously, we won't be disadvantaged if there's an opportunity there.

Sheldon G. Adelson (Chairman and CEO)

There's no advantage for a player to go through one of those junket reps with whom they cannot share the commission. They can get the entire commission if they come directly to us, and we provide the credit. I don't know. Somebody's got to explain to me what the advantage is. I don't see it.

Jon Oh (Managing Director)

Okay. My follow-up question is, could you share with us your progress that you've made in Japan and also in Vietnam? I know we've talked a lot about Spain, but what about some of these more, some of these markets in Asia? Where are we in the legislative process? If you could give us an update. Also, where are you in terms of your negotiations in both these countries? Thanks.

Sheldon G. Adelson (Chairman and CEO)

We are very heavily petitioning, let's call it in U.S. terms, lobbying the government. They don't have lobbying firms over there in Asia, but we are asking the government and doing what we can to contribute to a regulatory structure, in terms of the drafters of the legislation. We're sticking our two cents in there. You probably have heard almost the same thing we have. I wouldn't want to get into anything you may not have heard because it'll give a roadmap to our competitors. We are doing what it will take to get there. I can't tell you what's going to happen tomorrow. I can't tell you what'll happen this year, but the possibility, there are elections in Korea this year. There are elections in Japan this year. Those are the two primary properties. We're still very heavily involved with Vietnam.

We're looking at Taiwan, although Taiwan hasn't, Taiwan has passed a law for any of the islands from the mainland of Taiwan to Kinmen and Matsu, adjacent to the PRC. They're talking islands. They haven't talked to the mainland yet. We are out there. We have resources that we're applying in our petitioning or lobbying process, and it's very difficult to say when it could happen this year. It can happen till next year. It may even happen not till the year after. We're right on top of it on every single move. We're talking to the legislator. We're helping to contribute to the drafting of legislation. We're touring a lot of people, a lot of government people that come from any of these countries. They've all heard about Singapore. They've been out of Singapore. We carry out a regular practice.

It's a revolving door of government people that are coming to see how Singapore works, and they typically want to follow that model.

Jon Oh (Managing Director)

Thank you.

Sheldon G. Adelson (Chairman and CEO)

We're always happy to say that.

Operator (participant)

Our next question comes from the line of Steven Kent with Goldman Sachs.

Steven Kent (Managing Director)

Hi. Just a couple of questions, Sheldon, on Spain. Just to go back to it for a second, I still don't completely understand the idea of self-funding. The reason I bring it up, Sheldon, is that originally, Macau and Singapore in some ways were going to be self-funding and project finance, and you were going to use the debt markets. As you remember, and we all remember, the debt markets closed down, and you had to put up your own capital. Don't we run that same risk with Spain? Even though you're saying it's not truly a $35 billion investment, you still have to have a solid capital market and a solid debt market in order to be successful here.

Second, just on Spain, the core Asian player was such an important part of Macau and Singapore, obviously not going to be the same if you're in the middle of Europe. I want to understand that part of the strategy too.

Sheldon G. Adelson (Chairman and CEO)

I didn't understand that.

Steven Kent (Managing Director)

Oh, and then one final point. Sorry, Sheldon. One final point. If with all of this capital and all of these opportunities ahead, what does that mean for dividends for 2012 and 2013, given some of the cash flow needed you have? Should we expect continued dividend increases at a solid pace?

Sheldon G. Adelson (Chairman and CEO)

We're not going to put a shovel in the ground without adding the financing. There is no more taking equity and put out 100% equity. I attribute that to my former management, who followed that practice. We will have financing before we put a shovel in the ground. If the financing is not available, we're not putting the shovel in the ground. If we have the financing, we'll finish the property. If we start it, we'll finish it. If there's no financing available, if things in the market change, then we'll simply delay that. It didn't go on for many years. It was a relatively short-term phenomenon where money wasn't available. I've seen in the last 20 years, money being and not being available almost on a revolving basis, certainly no more than annually or 12-15 month hiatus.

We're not going to get into, listen, it's like the expression, "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me." We've already gotten caught in that mess, even though it wasn't my mess, but although it was, I was the CEO. It was our mess, and we learned from it. We're not going to make that same mistake again.

Steven Kent (Managing Director)

You've got dividends as well.

Sheldon G. Adelson (Chairman and CEO)

What about dividends?

Oh, we got to continue. I got to tell you, I do own a few shares in the company. One can easily assume that I'm all in favor of dividends, but I've also said to the board I've recused myself of voting on it. If the board voted for more dividends, it's not because they think I want it. It's because they think it's appropriate. If they voted for less, which I don't think will happen, it's without my vote. I've recused myself because I think I have a conflict there. Mike, do you want to answer that?

Mike Leven (President and COO)

I just want to answer Steve's question on the core Asian player that he talked about. We've talked about a lot of this. Basically, our forecasts, what we've looked at is not counting on that core Asian player. As you recall, what Sheldon mentioned earlier in the day, that we must forecast a 20% return, cash on cash return for our investment. Those forecasts, those run-ups that we've been doing, we have had limited situations involving core Asian players. However, we do have a distinct competitive advantage. We use a very significant air force to bring players around. You've seen major baccarat improvement here in Las Vegas. That's as a result of the air force that we have. There's nothing to say that we can't bring players to Spain as well.

In the initial forecasting of our revenue and our bottom line in Spain that we're working on now, subject to the government agreements we make, we have not counted on those Asian players, Steve.

There are many Asian players in Europe, perhaps not at the caliber, at the high end that you see in Asia.

Sheldon G. Adelson (Chairman and CEO)

We've done about a dozen or more studies about the market in Europe, and we probably have more studies and more validation of our vision than any other project ever. After all, this will be one of the largest projects of the field. I don't want to mention the number because I'll be reading it in every journalist article or in every analyst report. We've done an awful lot of study on this. We feel quite confident. The bottom line is no 20% cash on cash return, no project.

Steven Kent (Managing Director)

Okay, thank you.

Operator (participant)

Our next question comes from a line of Carlo Santarelli with Deutsche Bank.

Carlo Santarelli (Managing Director)

Hey, guys. Good afternoon. I was just wondering if you could maybe help walk us through your table skew across Macau, as Sands Cotai Central opens and where we should expect to see the biggest hit. If someone could just quickly address maybe the Singapore VIP event calendar over the rest of this year, if there's anything notable you guys are doing in certain quarters that we should be aware of, that'd be helpful. Thanks.

Sheldon G. Adelson (Chairman and CEO)

I couldn't hear the first.

Carlo, hi. It's Rob. On the first question, on the second question, it's easy enough. The Chinese New Year's has come and gone. That's our events calendar for the first quarter.

There are holidays, and there are F1 races, and there are all the events that take place throughout Singapore. As far as a specific calendar, we do events there for our customers. Obviously, Chinese New Year's is by far the most important event in the calendar. There is F1. There is our event, but I don't think there's anything worth mentioning that's going to be that important to you.

Carlo Santarelli (Managing Director)

Got it. My first question, you heard me, it was more along the lines of how you will skew tables across Macau, i.e., as you ramp Sands Cotai Central over time and where we should expect to see the table count impacts at your existing properties.

Sheldon G. Adelson (Chairman and CEO)

As I said earlier, we're always trying to maximize the performance of the tables, and we rotate and move tables around within a property and within multiple properties. That doesn't answer the question?

Carlo Santarelli (Managing Director)

No, that does, Sheldon. I didn't hear you before.

Sheldon G. Adelson (Chairman and CEO)

Oh,

Carlo Santarelli (Managing Director)

thank you.

Sheldon G. Adelson (Chairman and CEO)

Next, Stephen, I didn't hear your question, so I just want to touch base.

Operator (participant)

Our next question comes from the line of Felicia Hendrix with Barclays.

Felicia Hendrix (Managing Director and Senior Research Analyst)

Hi, good afternoon. Rob, I know you're not going to give any, you don't want to talk about Sands Cotai Central, makes sense given that it's next quarter's data, but just wondering if you could tell us how many VIP rooms and tables are open at the property now and then maybe give us a schedule for how they're opening across the year?

Robert Goldstein (President and COO)

Yeah. We were fully occupied in the month of May. We opened, all the rooms are commenced to, Felicia. We had some issues with some of the fiscal issues in the rooms and the hotel getting it done in April. It's fully operational except for one junket. On the third week of May, the last junket rolls in there of the 12 that'll be there. We expect a full hit in the month of May, and we feel very, very good about the complement of operators we've assembled there. I think what that team has done is exemplary. Our advantage on the VIP side is that we have so much capacity now in Cotai that people want to be in our buildings. We feel very confident that the product and the VIP rooms themselves, I don't think I had a chance to see them, but they're very impressive.

We've got the best and the brightest as our junket operators, and they'll be fully occupied in the month of May.

Felicia Hendrix (Managing Director and Senior Research Analyst)

Great. Are you on track to start revamping your VIP product at The Venetian this summer?

Robert Goldstein (President and COO)

Yes, we are. We'll start renovation shortly, and I think you'll see a big change there. Obviously, we're overdue, and you had some pushback with some customers and operators about it. It's been a problem for us. I think there's a lot of upside. I'm pleased with our performance in the VIP tables in, in on that Venetian, but there's room to improve. I think the new tech, the new, I'm sorry, the new tables, the new rooms you're building in at Venetian are very, very nice to look at, very pleasant. Coupled with, again, our presence in Cotai in general gives us an advantage of improved performance.

Felicia Hendrix (Managing Director and Senior Research Analyst)

Okay. Thanks. Can I just take another stab at this question? I just think it's important to ask so that everybody is on the same page and we're not all guessing different numbers. If you could give us, either Rob or Ken, the EBITDA impact from the hold at Marina Bay Sands, Las Vegas, and then I guess it was flight in Macau?

Sheldon G. Adelson (Chairman and CEO)

I think Ken should take that question.

Kenneth Kay (CFO)

I appreciate the question. I'm not really sure that I can really add much to what.

Sheldon G. Adelson (Chairman and CEO)

Same question asked you?

Kenneth Kay (CFO)

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

Sheldon G. Adelson (Chairman and CEO)

Absolutely. I like that.

Kenneth Kay (CFO)

Sheldon’s already talked about that from a 200-day moving average perspective, and I think that gives you really kind of a good reference point to compare against.

Felicia Hendrix (Managing Director and Senior Research Analyst)

I understand that, but the 200-day moving average was still lower than the actual, you know, hold in, in some cases.

Sheldon G. Adelson (Chairman and CEO)

It may or may not be. Listen, the whole change is from day to day. Anybody who can predict day to day, hour to hour, minute by minute, is a miracle person. We do not want to withhold any information from him. We want to give everything that we are blessed to share, and we want to share it with you. If you are taking one quarter and you are not taking.

Felicia Hendrix (Managing Director and Senior Research Analyst)

Okay.

Sheldon G. Adelson (Chairman and CEO)

Somebody's out. It'd be best to put their mute on.

Robert Goldstein (President and COO)

I can hear it.

Sheldon G. Adelson (Chairman and CEO)

Listen, we just.

Felicia Hendrix (Managing Director and Senior Research Analyst)

It's just, it's actually your line. I understand the logic behind that, but, you know, in other quarters, you've given us the color. Is this just the, you know, we're just looking at things differently now?

Sheldon G. Adelson (Chairman and CEO)

No, we're looking at it realistically. I tell you honestly, Felicia, I've been after my people for a couple of years that on a monthly basis, I want the first, the first 30 days of a 200-day moving average dropped off, and the last 30 days added on. I've been a proponent of a 200-day moving average for years, but unfortunately, not all the people in my company do exactly what I want them to do. This time, I'll make sure that I have it, and I'm going to have it from now on. I finally got the figure today, and the figure for Macau and Singapore, which constitutes almost 90% of our total business, it's 3.05%. That's the number. That's the 200-day moving average. What can I do?

If 2.85% is less than that, or that's more than 2.85%, you think you want to adjust it because it's too high than the average hold, you have to take into account the habits of the people that play. The habits of the people that play in this industry can change the results of the law of averages. The law of averages is 2.85%. I tell you, I failed to be amazed at the fact that in the game of baccarat, when we have a 17%-22% hold, say, give or take 20%, here in the States in Las Vegas, the maker of gaming, it's 36% over in Asia. Why is it 36%? Dramatically, it's like, oh, 80%. Whatever number higher than the law of averages calls for is because the people don't play on the rules that people play here. They play on the basis of luck.

People's behavior is, that's an excellent classical example of how that can change returns.

If you take the law of averages return in Las Vegas and apply it to what you want, you think the law of averages or the results should be in Asia, is the risk that those numbers won't jump? I don't think it's a risk. I think it's a surety. The 200-day moving average is going to give us a more authoritative and a more lengthy basis on which to make our own internal projections and to report whether we're above or below a milestone.

Felicia Hendrix (Managing Director and Senior Research Analyst)

Got it. Okay, thank you.

Sheldon G. Adelson (Chairman and CEO)

Our next question comes from the line of Robin Farley with UBS.

Robin Farley (Managing Director)

Thanks. I know you commented on VIP business in Singapore, but I wonder if you could give us your thoughts on the mass business where it was a little bit more flat sequentially, and just if that's seasonality or how you view the mass business and how you think that'll grow sequentially from here. I've got one or two other after that.

Sheldon G. Adelson (Chairman and CEO)

Sequentially, it was flat. Year-on-year, the way we recorded those numbers?

Kenneth Kay (CFO)

Yeah, we're 22% year-on-year.

Robin Farley (Managing Director)

No. Sequentially, meaning from the December quarter to the March quarter.

Sheldon G. Adelson (Chairman and CEO)

To me, any business that grows 22% year-to-year, I'll be a happy investor.

Robin Farley (Managing Director)

No, that's great, but I'm asking about the sequential pattern and just how you expect sequential change, not the year-over-year.

Sheldon G. Adelson (Chairman and CEO)

Robin, we talked about sequential the last two or three conference calls. Basically, you're dealing in a business that sequential comparisons are not relevant compared to year-over-year comparisons because as you see, a product matures. If you look at Macau where it's getting more mature, you can see where the annual comparisons year-over-year work. In Singapore, it's not mature enough to really understand the seasonality, which we talked about before. I think, honestly, you get into a little trouble when you look at sequential. That happened looking at various roll numbers, etc., and so forth. Someone said previously that the first quarter and the third quarter tend to look like the stronger quarters. Right now, that's what they do. Comparing it month over month is really not, days change, holidays change, things affect those particular situations. The mass market is particularly sensitive to seasonality and particularly sensitive to various months.

Robin Farley (Managing Director)

Thank you. I think that the Q1 comment before was really about VIP. That's why I was trying to get some more color on mass. If you just want to say, I understand what you're saying. You don't know the seasonality of the market yet, and that's fine.

Sheldon G. Adelson (Chairman and CEO)

It's different because VIP, you'll never be able to track sequentially because of the nature of it.

Robin Farley (Managing Director)

Exactly. In other words, the comment before about Q1 was about VIP. The other thing I wanted to ask was on the table cap in Macau. I know you made some comments, Sheldon, in your introductory remarks, but I wonder if you could tell us, do you expect Macau to go above the 5,500 table cap before March of 2013?

Sheldon G. Adelson (Chairman and CEO)

Before what? March 15?

Kenneth Kay (CFO)

March of 2013.

Sheldon G. Adelson (Chairman and CEO)

I have no idea what the government's going to do. Hey, Robin. All I know is the government is trying to be as accommodating and supportive of the concessionaries as they can. Whatever they do for one, I think they got to do for everybody. I'm not an analyst. I'm not free to speculate. I have to report the facts. If somebody wants to speculate about the number of tables or speculate about labor or speculate about this or that, that's what it is. It's speculation. We are required under the pains and penalties that get bawled out by my wife of not telling exactly the way it is, not to mention the SEC. We have to be accurate with you. We cannot speculate.

Robin Farley (Managing Director)

Okay.

Robert Goldstein (President and COO)

I'm going to lead the Singapore question. I can't help but think that we're two years into Singapore and forget sequence for year on year. The fact is we have a duopoly with all those people in Indonesia, Malaysia. It seems to me an awfully good fit that the market across the board, be it lodging, be it retail, be it gaming, be it high-end gaming, it's got to grow. It's going to keep growing because as we saw in Macau in the early days back in, no one would guess back in 2003 and 2004 what's happened to mass or VIP. I think when any place in Asia, you can get duopoly in a major city with an airport like that, it's an awfully good bet that we sit near down the road, whether it's next quarter or next year, astounded by the growth in Singapore.

I just think you have to give more respect to how good that market will be and can be.

Sheldon G. Adelson (Chairman and CEO)

The rooms and the price we can get the ADR on the rooms is clearly, unequivocally subject to seasonality. We can have trade shows and conventions go in the spring and the fall and not in the summer. The FIT leisure rate in the summer is totally different. The retail with Christmas and other Golden Week spending periods in Asia is seasonal. The gaming is seasonal. We just happen to be in a seasonal business where, I guess, under the category of consumer discretionary, and unless somebody thinks about another category, and that is seasonal. Look, if 40% or more of all the retail is done in the U.S. between Thanksgiving, the four weeks between Thanksgiving and Christmas, I can't make any stronger case for seasonality than that.

Robin Farley (Managing Director)

Sure. No, I was looking for factors outside of the seasonality that you might address. The other question, this last one, is on Spain. I wonder if you could just give us a, and this could be a wide range or just kind of ballpark on what kind of revenue assumption you have for the market there that gets you to the 20% return.

Sheldon G. Adelson (Chairman and CEO)

It is just all figures. It is much too early to make that assumption, particularly to make it public. We have done more studies, about a dozen studies, and if we did feel confident that the amount of money that we need, the amount of business we need to get to the 20% cash-on-cash return, we would not continue with it. We would just pull it back and say, "We are sorry, everybody. We wish that everybody is done." We do not believe that is in the past. We believe that all the studies that we have done validate our vision.

Robin Farley (Managing Director)

Okay, thank you.

Kenneth Kay (CFO)

Thanks, Robin.

Operator (participant)

There are no further questions in the queue. I will now turn the call over to Senior Management for any closing remarks.

Sheldon G. Adelson (Chairman and CEO)

No, I don't have any closing remarks except to say I'm looking at the chart that shows us one out of two of 12,222 companies. I look at the constant growth. I look at the 14.2% quarter EBITDA growth. Frankly, I don't understand. I don't want to encourage analysts to overreach and to overpromise because that happened once before, and we just barely made it, everybody's projections. Everybody make their own projections. We're going to keep doing what we're doing. I can't, it's very difficult for me to give a lot of credibility to the people who think that there is a plateau level and that it's predictable in Asia. It's just the nature of their culture that they have a greater propensity to play and to shop and to do other things than other cultures. This is a cultural sensitivity issue. We live with that.

I see no reason for our 14.2% quarterly EBITDA growth to go backwards. That's the reason. That's my closing remark. I want to thank everybody for calling in. We'll talk to you in 90 days. Thank you.

Operator (participant)

Thank you, ladies and gentlemen. This does conclude today's conference call. You may now disconnect.