Las Vegas Sands - Q3 2024

Transcript

Operator (participant)

Good day, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to the Sands Third Quarter 2024 Earnings Call. At this time, all participants have been placed on a listen-only mode, and the floor will be open for questions and comments after the presentation. It is now my pleasure to turn the floor over to Mr. Daniel Briggs, Senior Vice President of Investor Relations. Sir, the floor is yours.

Daniel Briggs (SVP of Investor Relations)

Thanks so much. Joining the call today are Rob Goldstein, our Chairman and CEO; Patrick Dumont, our President and COO; Dr. Wilfred Wong, Executive Vice Chairman of Sands China; and Grant Chum, CEO and President of Sands China and EVP of Las Vegas Sands Asia Operations. Today's conference call will contain forward-looking statements. We will be making those statements under the safe harbor provision of federal securities laws. The company's actual results may differ materially from the results reflected in those forward-looking statements. In addition, we will discuss some non-GAAP measures. Reconciliations to the most comparable GAAP financial measure are included in our press release. We have posted an earnings presentation on our website. We will refer to that presentation during the call.

Finally, for the Q&A session, we ask those with interest to please pose one question and one follow-up, so we might allow everyone with interest the opportunity to participate. The presentation is being recorded. I'll now turn the call over to Rob.

Robert Goldstein (Chairman and CEO)

Thanks, Dan. Thanks for joining us today. The Macau market continues to grow. Total gaming revenue for the market grew 13% in the third quarter of 2024 when compared to the third quarter of 2023. Mass gaming revenue grew 14% in the quarter compared to one year ago. We believe the Chinese economy will grow and flourish in the future and remain steadfast that Macau market will grow along with it. I believe the Macau market gross gaming revenues will exceed $30 billion in 2025 and grow from there. The scale and quality of the assets we have built are second to none. We believe our assets position us to grow faster than the market as growth expands beyond the premium customer segment. Our business strategy is predicated on investing in high-quality assets that also have scale.

We've designed our capital investment programs to ensure that we will continue to be the market leader in the years ahead. We believe our approach will enable us to grow faster in the long term, grow our share of EBITDA in the Macau market, and generate industry-leading returns on invested capital. Turning to our results in Macau, we delivered solid EBITDA for the quarter, despite material disruption at The Londoner, which peaked during the third quarter. We opened The Londoner Grand Casino in the last week of September. We also opened the first 300 Londoner Grand Suites.

We will introduce more Londoner suites throughout the next three quarters, with a total of 1,300 Londoner suites and rooms in service by Lunar New Year 2025, with a full complement of 1,500 suites and 905 rooms in service by Golden Week 2025. SCL continues to lead the market in gaming and non-gaming revenue and in market share of EBITDA. Our objective is to capture a high-value, high-margin tourism over the long term. We have a unique competitive advantage in terms of scale, quality, and diversity of product offerings. Upon completion of the second phase of The Londoner in 2025, our product advantage will be more pronounced than ever. We delivered another strong quarter in Singapore, despite poor hold percentage.

The results at Marina Bay Sands reflect the positive impact of our capital investment program and the growth of high-value tourism. The growing appeal of Singapore as a destination is enhanced by the robust entertainment and lifestyle event calendar. As we complete the balance of our investment programs in the first half of 2025, there will be considerable runway for growth. Thank you for joining us. Let me turn it over to Patrick before we go to Q&A.

Patrick Dumont (President and COO)

Thanks, Rob. Macau EBITDA was $585 million. If we had held as expected in our rolling program, our EBITDA would have been higher by $2 million. When adjusted for lower-than-expected hold in the rolling segment, our EBITDA margin for the Macau portfolio of properties, excluding The Londoner, would have been 35.1%, or down 110 basis points compared to the third quarter of 2023. Our margins at The Londoner were directly impacted by the disruption of the Londoner Grand renovation. We closed the casino and had around 2,500 keys out of inventory during the quarter. Margin at the Venetian was 38.6%, and we expect margin improvement as the Venetian Cotai Arena comes back online in November, and as visitation to the market and growth in unrated play both increase in the future.

Margin at the Plaza and Four Seasons was 39.7% for the quarter. As Rob mentioned, we continue to progress our Londoner Grand renovation program. As these products come online, our competitive position will be stronger than ever. We expect meaningful EBITDA growth and margin expansion in the future. Turning to Singapore, MBS's EBITDA came in at $406 million. Assuming expected hold on our rolling play, our EBITDA would have been approximately $78 million higher. The strong financial results reflect the impact of high-quality tourism investment and market-leading product and growth in high-value tourism overall. Had we held as expected in our rolling play segment, MBS EBITDA margin would have been 47.5%, 40 basis points higher than that of the third quarter of 2023.

While we have made substantial progress on our $1.75 billion reversion program at MBS, we are still in the initial stages of realizing the benefits of these products, including from our Tower Gaming offering, which opened in September. The next phase of our capital investment program at Marina Bay Sands is scheduled to be completed during the second quarter of 2025. This will support further growth in 2025 and beyond. Also, please note, on page 44 of our earnings presentation, we have provided estimated costs for our Marina Bay Sands IR2 project. We couldn't be more enthusiastic about investing in the long-term growth of high-value leisure and business tourism in Singapore. The original concept was, in effect, an expansion of Marina Bay Sands, including an arena. Our new program creates a full-scale integrated resort development with a full suite of amenities, including gaming capacity.

We look forward to discussing that long-term growth driver in the Q&A session. Turning to our program to return capital to shareholders, we repurchased $450 million of LVS stock during the quarter, and our board increased our repurchase authorization to $2 billion for future repurchases. We paid our recurring quarterly dividend of $0.20 per share in the quarter. In addition, our board increased our annual dividend to $1 per share, or $0.25 per quarter for the 2025 calendar year. We really look forward to continuing to utilize the company's capital return program to increase returns to shareholders in the future. Thanks again for joining the call today. Now let's take some questions.

Operator (participant)

Thank you. The floor is now open for questions. If you would like to enter the queue to ask a question, please press star one on your phone at this time. We ask that while posing your question, you please pick up your handset if listening on speakerphone to provide optimum sound quality. Also, we ask each participant to limit yourself to one question and one follow-up. Please hold while we poll for questions. Our first question comes from Joe Greff with JP Morgan. Please proceed.

Joe Greff (Managing Director)

Good afternoon, guys. Congratulations on the results. One question, two parts, related to Macau. In the 3Q, if we look at contra gaming revenues as a percentage of gross gaming revenues, that percentage went down almost 200 basis points. How much of that is you're managing the business differently, offering promotions differently than before? How much of that is just the market level of promotional activity is down, how much of that relates to, you know, mix between base mass and premium mass, and then I will follow up.

Patrick Dumont (President and COO)

So Joe, it's a great question, and I think it's something we've been focused on for a long time. If you realize what happened in the quarter and the quarter before, and actually in the first quarter, we've been impacted by disruption. And so we haven't really been able to manage our business with all of our capabilities. And so what we've been doing now is, as things have been coming online, and we've been focusing on manage the business for the future, we've been looking to become more efficient. So we'll look to improve our margins from managing the business more closely. And what you're seeing is a direct result of that.

I think one thing that did impact our margins this quarter, and they would have looked better, was the fact that we took so many rooms out of inventory. So the majority of our our, let's call it, our margin change and decline was related to the fact that that's a very high margin business, and we still didn't have it because the rooms weren't there. So I think what you're seeing is the beginning of the cost discipline and the pricing power because of the assets we've invested in slowly coming into place. So I think it's a good signal for the future and the way that we're going to manage the business with discipline. I would like to turn over to Grant for any additional comments.

Grant Chum (CEO and President)

Yeah, thanks, Patrick. I think, Joe, you know, it's more that, last quarter, I think we mentioned that as we were preparing for the full closure of the old Pacifica Casino, we did, we did deploy some tactical measures to manage the transition of customers to the other properties, and we did that very carefully during second quarter, but for the third quarter, we're we're really back to our core strategy, which is we compete on the basis of our products and the content that we bring, despite the fact that obviously third quarter, our disruption actually increased, like Patrick referenced, with many more rooms out of inventory.

But we we stick to our core strategy, and we had a very strong quarter in how we managed our customer reinvestments, and still maintain market share relative to the second quarter, despite rising disruption during the quarter, and despite the fact that the base mass did not recover as strongly as the summer months normally would indicate. So overall, it was a very strong margin performance, and obviously, we're very pleased that we managed to actually grow EBITDA sequentially, despite the fact that the market GGR is down marginally against second quarter.

Joe Greff (Managing Director)

Thank you. And my follow-up question related to Macau, obviously, Golden Week was pretty strong. October, you know, for the most part, has been, you know, better than expected. Can you talk about what you think the drivers of that that better than expected performance? I'm assuming that's probably better than expected for you guys as well. But, you know, how much of that is driven by the increases in equity prices locally? How much of that is seasonally strong events like Golden Week or New Year's typically see a step change that's a little bit stronger than maybe typical seasonality? Any kind of comments about how the typical Macau consumer is behaving since the quarter ended, given all these generally more encouraging than not trends thus far in October? Thank you.

Patrick Dumont (President and COO)

Yeah, Joe, I think we're not going to talk too much about the current quarter just because we have a policy not doing that, but I think directionally, we're very pleased about the the quality of people we have coming into our buildings, both in Macau and in Singapore, and I think that there's some, there's some real opportunity going forward as our new product comes online and people continue to spend in our buildings. And I think even with the disruption that you're seeing, you're finding that the consumer, high-frequent, high-value tourist, is coming to our properties and recognizing that there's a great experience to be had there. Entertainment definitely plays a big part of that.

Entertainment has been super important for us in both markets, and we continue to look to schedule entertainment and take advantage of entertainment as it occurs in the markets, even if it's not scheduled by us.

Joe Greff (Managing Director)

Thank you.

Operator (participant)

.Okay, the next question comes from Stephen Grambling with Morgan Stanley. Please proceed.

Stephen Grambling (Managing Director)

Hey, thank you. Maybe turning to Marina Bay Sands. It's been hovering from an EBITDA standpoint, around $450 million-$500 million for the past couple of quarters. Can you just remind us of the cadence of disruption, some of the work going on to add suites, and how that might subside and then build into next year?

Patrick Dumont (President and COO)

Sure. So just to give you a sense, during the quarter, we had about 1,600 rooms available versus about 2,100 rooms available last year. So there's pretty substantial disruption going on just from a room count standpoint. We also had some some casino floor work going on, which is disruptive. We did just open up some additional salon capacity there. So, you know, I think by the end of September, we should have about 27 newly renovated salons. So there's just a lot of stuff happening. I think, you know, we did Tower 1, Tower 2, we did what we call our Paiza area. We just introduced Sky Gaming, which is something that we never had before, which was actually granted us as part of the development agreement for IR2. We've redone some dining and updated some retail.

I think the biggest disruption is really Tower 3, that's ongoing, and hopefully, by the end of the quarter, we'll add another 150 rooms. We'll see how that goes. But our biggest disruption right now is we have one of our casino floor areas kind of mid-flight, and so that's disrupting a little bit of the casino operation. But I would say that by middle of next year, hopefully, we're going to stop talking about disruption. I think my dream is to stop talking about disruption at this point, you know?

Robert Goldstein (Chairman and CEO)

Yeah, I think by Scott's point, by May of 2025, both London and Singapore pretty much are clear sailing. We're going to stop telling you about rooms or limiting all disruption, all difficulties, all comes to a head and no more excuses. We'll start seeing, I think, some stellar results that'll reflect the end of disruption and the beginning of making more money, both in Singapore and Macau. I think Singapore is, it's going through a lot. It's amazing how well it's done in spite of this, but London, having returned to that place, I can't wait to see it finished and fully open, because the casino pool is very, very exciting to look at.

Patrick Dumont (President and COO)

You know, I would like to just point out, if you look at our earnings deck, you can see some of the results of innovation on page forty, page forty-one. You can kind of see the quality of work there. I'd like to give a big shout-out to our design team. We've never really produced anything like this in our company's history. Our customers are taking notice. You can see that by the high quality of customer we have coming in, the ADR that we have, the demand we have, the reviews we have for these rooms, the customer feedback. Very proud of what we've done in Marina Bay Sands, and if this is what we're able to do, with this level of disruption, we're very excited about the future and the trajectory of the business.

It's really amazing how strong the market is, how quality of a tourist is coming into Singapore, and the fact that they are really interested in coming to Marina Bay Sands. And so I think the investment has been very positive, and we're very happy about it, but unfortunately, we're still talking about disruption.

Stephen Grambling (Managing Director)

And maybe as a follow-up, just on Marina Bay Sands, realizing that you put out the updated numbers in terms of capital spend on IR2, I guess, has the scope changed at all? Are there any updated thoughts on how you think about the returns on that project, potentially, versus other projects, realizing that you'll probably get into this both later this year and next?

Robert Goldstein (Chairman and CEO)

Obviously, the biggest change that we made you aware of is the full casino amenities is built, no longer just a hotel supporting IR1. And so that's obviously the biggest change is that. I think you'll see from the design there, it is laser-focused on the premium mass segment. We believe it's a market that is growing to about $6.5 billion of GGR, probably in 2024. We believe we easily get to $11 billion by quarter end. This project reflects a lot of capital being directed at a very, very strong customer segment and a unique asset. It's a unique market that is stellar and it's unique. There's barriers to entry. There's a proven market. We know who the customer is.

We've been there for fourteen years, so we feel very, very confident that these results are going to be terrific by... We've told you before, we expect IR1 to get to $2.5 billion, and we believe this new building can make in excess of $1 billion on top of that. So we're very confident that we've built the right thing in the market and its unique location, destination, our business. Like, you have a tested market, you know the competition, you know the government, you know the infrastructure, barriers to entry. So the biggest single changer, obviously, is there's a full-blown casino as opposed to just a hotel.

Stephen Grambling (Managing Director)

Makes sense. That's it for me. Look forward to seeing it in November. Yep.

Operator (participant)

Up next, we have Robin Farley with UBS. Please proceed.

Robin Farley (Managing Director and Senior Equity Analyst)

Great, thanks. Last week, investors heard a bit about some, you know, pressure on luxury spend from the Chinese consumer. I wonder if you could talk about what you might be seeing there, and how much do you think—how much overlap is that with, you know, your premium mass consumer?

Robert Goldstein (Chairman and CEO)

Robin, let's just talk about that for a second. I think we're. I think everyone should be impressed, the resilience of Macau. We all know what's happening in China, and I mean very confident it's going to return to a stronger place in the near future. But the fact is, Macau is performing, showing growth and strong growth, I think, despite the economic environment there. Hopefully, we'll see more insight to the government's perspective on the economy in the near future. But unlike retail, which you're right, has struggled and we struggled as well, our top-end retail, retail in general in Asia, there's no disputing until the LV makes numbers, Richemont numbers, Kering numbers, but it has not been a similar path for gaming in Macau. Macau is showing growth, double-digit growth in the quarter.

It's very, it's very exciting, if this continues, I think it will, I think we'll exceed $30-plus billion next year. We're waiting for the day when the base mass returns, and so our current assets speak very well to the-- I mean, the Londoner completion and the Venetian will be talking to each other, and I think creates the two most impressive assets in the market by far, making billions of dollars in the future for us. But the real kicker comes when the base mass does return, because as you know, our assets are built for scale and built for, you know, huge throughput. So I think when that happens, the world turns very, very sunny for us. But in the interim, unlike retail, unlike other consumer spending, businesses, Macau has proven very resilient and very powerful, and we're grateful for it.

You saw the numbers coming out, the market numbers for October, looked awfully good for the industry, what we saw in the first weeks of October. You know, it's a very positive story relative to other businesses operating in Macau, in China.

Robin Farley (Managing Director and Senior Equity Analyst)

Oh, great. That's really helpful. Thank you. And maybe just one quick follow-up is, with some of the stimulus that was announced a few weeks ago, did that change your, you know, expectation for timing of recovery in the, in the base mass? Or, you know, in other words, where should investors maybe look to see that show up, if you, in fact, if you think, you know, it will show up? Thanks.

Robert Goldstein (Chairman and CEO)

I think it's. I was in Beijing two weeks ago, and I think it, first of all, it was very well received by everyone to see the government stepping in. It is wonderful and hopefully continues. But I think it's too early to predict where and when and how, and how quickly. Again, I think what's great to see is that before the stimulus, Macau continues to show, you know, strong growth. And with our product offering, we will, we'll participate in that. When the stimulus shows up, how it impacts the customer, we hope it would be sooner than later, and hope it'll be all segments, but I think time will tell. We have. I don't think we have the insights. Grant or Wilfred, do you feel differently about that?

Grant Chum (CEO and President)

Yeah, Rob, I think the main point here, which you referenced just now, is, you know, that Macau GGR remains very resilient, before any of these stimulus measures have the chance to take impact. And I think that's very clear in the premium segment. And I think any economic tailwind we get as a market from these stimulus measures over time obviously will help the other segments, in particular, I think base mass and retail, which are two very, you know, important segments for us. So overall, we should acknowledge, you know, this Macau GGR, Macau gaming is a very big outperformer in the whole consumer universe in the region right now.

And that's powered by the premium segment, where we are, you know, extremely well-placed, with the great products that we bring online. But of course, as as the economy gets better, as some of these measures have positive impact over time, we obviously expect the other segments, which are also important to us, will follow through, and give us a further boost to what these assets can actually deliver into 2025 and beyond.

Robin Farley (Managing Director and Senior Equity Analyst)

Okay, great.

Robert Goldstein (Chairman and CEO)

Well, I-

Robin Farley (Managing Director and Senior Equity Analyst)

Thank you very much. Okay.

Wilfred Wong (Executive Vice Chairman)

Let me add a couple of points. The first thing is that the economic stimulus measures introduced by China are still unfolding, but the directional development is welcoming. We have confidence in the Chinese mainland's economic future, and we continue to invest in Macau's future. The second point is that in 2024, Macau has been rated by the Chinese tourists as the most desired destination out of the Chinese market. So, we we see that Macau will stand to benefit once economic activities return to normal.

Robert Goldstein (Chairman and CEO)

Well said.

Robin Farley (Managing Director and Senior Equity Analyst)

Okay. Thank you. Sorry.

Operator (participant)

The next question comes from Shaun Kelley with Bank of America. Your line is live.

Shaun Kelley (Managing Director and Senior Research Analyst)

Hi, good afternoon, everyone. Thanks for taking my questions. Wanted to go back to to IR2 to start. Thank you for the additional, just, numbers and disclosure there. You know, Rob or whoever's right, obviously, the, you know, an increase in the casino scope and capacity and what's always been a supply-constrained market is pretty interesting. Any details that you can provide there in terms of, you know, how many positions or what form some of the gaming expansion may take? Or imagine if it's too early, when might we look forward to hearing some additional details like that?

Patrick Dumont (President and COO)

We're gonna publish the final details over the next coming months, but the idea is that it has casino gaming in the podium and sky gaming, sky gaming in the tower. Look, our goal with this tower is to make it something very different. This is gonna be the most important gaming and hospitality building in the world. It's gonna be the best hotel in the world. That's our goal. The best service, the best experience, the best F&B. Our goal is to create something that is really extraordinary and helps address the Singapore market, which we know quite well now, and has been consuming some of our highest-end products over the last fourteen years, and so we're very aware of the market segments that we're addressing.

And we feel like this is a project that will be very accretive to our overall portfolio and create substantial value to us in the long term. What I can tell you is that it's a very robust program.

So it will have great food and beverage, great other amenities. It will have a public access component. It will have a SkyPark, as you can see, its own version of the SkyPark. It will have MICE. So it's gonna be a very important, globally significant asset for tourism, but it's gonna be very specific to a very high-end segment that we're dealing with today. And so hence, hence the investment.

Shaun Kelley (Managing Director and Senior Research Analyst)

Great. Thanks, Patrick. And then as my follow-up, if I could just turn to Macau. Obviously, it was encouraging to see a bit of the market-wide recovery in visitation, and I was just wondering if, you know, somebody could provide a little bit more color on how sort of visitation played out through the quarter. I think as we look back, second quarter, things were light and a kind of little soft relative to kind of where we sit in 2019. Clearly, sequentially, that improves. So just what was behavior like, you know, as things improved, and what were you seeing from sort of the customer patterns on the visitation front? Thank you.

Patrick Dumont (President and COO)

Grant, do you want to take that?

Grant Chum (CEO and President)

Sure, I'll take that. Yeah, thanks for the question, Shaun. Yeah, as you rightly pointed out, visitation improved in terms of the recovery rate in third quarter relative to second quarter. So we're up to about 93% of recovery versus 2019 third quarter. And actually, August the visitations exceeded 2019 levels. This quarter, it was primarily, especially when you look at it on year-on-year basis, primarily driven by a day trip visitor increase. And partly as a result of that, but partly, I think, as a general macro conditions didn't translate as much as you would have expected into the actual spending, especially in the base mass and the retail.

So what we saw in the third quarter is actually continuation of the strength in the premium segments. We had better visitations, yes, but that didn't necessarily translate into the, into the base mass business, or help the retail business to any great extent. But it's encouraging to see the interest and desirability of consumers to come to Macau. Clearly, the Sheraton's keys being, you know, 2,400 fewer rooms available versus the prior summer didn't help us, but also, you know, frankly, didn't help the market as a whole, because that's a very large amount of inventory to be out of the market. So overnight, as it is, that obviously hampered that segment.

And overnight, visitors typically spend multiple times what a day tripper spend. But like, I think Wilfred mentioned, Macau remains very desirable as a tourist destination for the region. And I think it's encouraging to see that come through just in the volume of visitations for the quarter.

Shaun Kelley (Managing Director and Senior Research Analyst)

Thank you, everyone.

Patrick Dumont (President and COO)

Thank you, Shaun.

Grant Chum (CEO and President)

Thanks, Sean.

Operator (participant)

The next question comes from Carlo Santarelli with Deutsche Bank. Please proceed.

Carlo Santarelli (Managing Director)

Hey, guys. Basically, just one question, but maybe two parts to it. I don't know if Grant wants to take this, but just thinking about the cadence of of rooms coming back online in Macau, relative from where we are today, what the total room count will be, acknowledging, you know, some regular rooms got compressed to suites, you know, come Golden Week of next year, and then kind of bucketing the rooms out of service and thinking about the impact they've had on, you know, a good slide that you guys have in your deck that kind of shows EBITDA share in 2019 of about 34%, and that trending at roughly 30% kind of this year.

How much of that, that four hundred basis point delta do you think returns with the, with the rooms coming back online?

Grant Chum (CEO and President)

Should I take that?

Patrick Dumont (President and COO)

Grant, you can take it. Yeah, please.

Grant Chum (CEO and President)

Yeah. Yeah, I think on the construction and the delivery of the new rooms, I mean, first of all, I think that the team's done a fantastic job in delivering the assets back the way they have by the end of September, where we opened a new casino, Londoner Grand Casino, as well as we got licensed for 300--the first 300 suites in Londoner Grand. I think it's important to to understand that in the fourth quarter, we actually go down further in the total number of keys available during the quarter versus third quarter, because we will be losing the rest of the Sheraton rooms, and we will be staying in terms of licensed new suites at this 300 number for pretty much the whole quarter.

So we'll actually reduce further in terms of key count by about 600-700 rooms in the fourth quarter, relative to to the third quarter. So it's really only until January that we start to get a significant uplift in the critical mass of new suites, and we hope to be above 1,000 new suites by, by January or at least by Chinese New Year in January. And then it just ramps up from there until May or middle of the second quarter to the full inventory of 2,400 keys. And by then, we'll be back up to to over, you know, 10,600 keys or just under 11,000 or thereabout by the second quarter.

Obviously, the room inventory being out by so much does impact our EBITDA and EBITDA share, and to your question on on the prospect for the EBITDA share recovery, I think we're very confident that Londoner Grand and the whole Londoner Macao will deliver as we roll out the what is really, I think top, top product at unprecedented scale. This Londoner Macao will be 4,400-suite hotel with about, you know, over 60% of the keys being suites. There's really no building like it in our industry in terms of that scale of quality and the offerings it has between the F&B, the arena inside the actual building.

So we're very positive about how this will help to drive our EBITDA and ultimately our share of EBITDA, as it ramps up and 2025 unfolds, and hopefully with some of these tailwinds that we just referenced earlier in the call, so yeah, we are very excited about how how this asset will deliver for us, and to Rob's point, you know, between Venetian and Londoner Macao, I think you've got two amazing assets that's really going to deliver for us, but also deliver for our customers.

Carlo Santarelli (Managing Director)

I appreciate that. Thank you.

Operator (participant)

The next question comes from Brandt Montour with Barclays. Please proceed.

Brandt Montour (Director and Senior Equity Research Analyst)

Hey, good evening, afternoon, everybody. So first question in Singapore, the ADR reported RevPAR, but ADR specifically of $900 was staggering. I'm just curious, I know there was a lot of rooms out. It was sort of the trough, it seems like, in terms of rooms out of service. When we look at that ADR, you know, I'm trying to figure out is there compression happening in that ADR because there were rooms out, or is that number sort of illustrative of the quality and the sort of higher level product that that you know that you're coming out with for that that asset?

Patrick Dumont (President and COO)

The answer is yes, so the first thing is you can see the pictures. Hopefully, you have a chance to go actually see the rooms in person. The rooms are extraordinary. The design is fantastic. The service levels are incredible, and we get that feedback from our customers, and so the ADR is a direct result of the market's view of the quality of the rooms after the renovation, and hopefully, the entire building will be like that by the middle of next year. We're very proud about it. We've made a lot of strides. We've done a lot of work. The team there has been phenomenal. It's been our goal to make that the number one hotel in Asia and the world, and so we've been working towards that.

Been doing a lot of benchmarking work and trying to figure out how to get there, which is unusual for a property of this size. I think actually one of the things that will help grow that ADR further is when IR2 is open and we have an arena. That arena is going to be an incredibly powerful tourism driver for the overall complex. Having a 15,000-seat live performance venue, with great technology, great viewing lines, and a great experience is going to be a very unique thing. And so the ability to schedule that asset, to program it, will drive a lot of visitation, not only to Singapore, but to Marina Bay Sands, and will help us drive ADR further. So we feel very strongly that this ADR is a reflection of some compression. Very fair.

We took rooms out of our keys, out of the building. But more importantly, it's really something that points to the quality and the service levels of this newly renovated building. And we think it will grow over time as more amenities are put in around it.

Grant Chum (CEO and President)

I think, to be fair to us, I don't think compression is that big a deal. In every market, there is extraordinary product people are staying at, gamers and non-gamers. This is that product. What's happening in Marina Bay Sands isn't just a compression. Sure, a few more or less rooms help you, but I believe demand is going to continue to soar once they experience the product. There's just nothing like it anywhere in terms of the room quality, the food and beverage product, anything about this hotel, the architecture, the public spaces, it's the place people want to stay. If you had two thousand, three thousand, five thousand keys, you could sell them all easily at prices that will continue to grow.

I think it's really a testament to the quality of product and the strong leisure demand and gamer demand in the market. It's just going to get better and better because Singapore is that desirable. Infrastructure, government, accessibility, it's a very special place. We've built a building that's going to be, for many years ahead, the most desirable place for everyone to stay at. Rates should continue to just go up and up, and gaming capacity will obviously grow more gaming demand, but it's a very different place than anything else in Singapore.

Brandt Montour (Director and Senior Equity Research Analyst)

Okay. Thank you for that. That's helpful. And then a question on Macau, on the Arena. You know, we don't talk about the Arena as much as we hear about the casino floor and the Londoner Suites. And I wanted to hear, you know, your level of excitement about that Arena renovation. And specifically, you know, when we think about 2025, is there a calendar associated with that, where we would expect periods where you can look out now and say, okay, well, this quarter has, you know, a great slate of events and where it'll be a needle mover, or if there's a lag associated with sort of getting it, you know, up to the place that you'd want it to be?

Patrick Dumont (President and COO)

So the great thing about entertainment in Macau is that it's a very important part of our premium mass business. And we use it, and we have used it successfully to drive premium mass visitation, and we have programs that help sort of leverage that asset. It's been very successful for us all over Asia in terms of scheduling live entertainment. But you know, the venue there is really an incredible one. Great visionary move by Sheldon early on to build that Arena. And you know, the updating is going to make it more powerful. And so I think we're very excited about the types of programs that we can run using it.

And there will be a schedule, and it will be within our control, and it will allow us to to create more visitation and better spend at the Venetian and the rest of the property portfolio. But, you know, Grant or Wilfred, I don't know if you have any additional comments you'd like to add.

Grant Chum (CEO and President)

Yeah, I think we have referenced it in the deck, but we are progressing very well on the construction of the upgrade for the Venetian Arena, and it will relaunch actually towards the end of November into December. And we already have the first events lined up in terms of entertainment, but also sports. So that would start getting some traction, actually, even at the end of this year. But we we also should note, like Patrick referenced on the entertainment offer in general, with the Londoner Arena, with the six thousand seat Londoner Arena, we have been programming very actively, even during the downtime of the Venetian Arena, or especially, I should say.

You know, we did around 17 shows in the Londoner Arena during third quarter, and many of these shows actually did help us in driving the traffic and and the spend. So, we're very excited to have the Venetian Arena fully upgraded. I think it's going to be great for entertainment, sports, MICE events. So it's really, you know, serving multiple segments and boosting the diversification drive in Macau. I think with a great setup there, with the VIP boxes, with the backstage, the locker rooms, and obviously, the state-of-the-art technology, I think is going to be basically like a new arena launching. So we are very excited by that.

But another point to note is we will be programming both arenas, and, you know, sometimes there'll be shows concurrently in both venues on both sides of the strip. So, we're excited to see how that could help our business, too. So, yes, you will, you will continuously see us showcasing new events in the calendar. There's already three events selling selling tickets now, towards the end of the quarter. And we are looking forward to do some announcements on, you know, some more major events, before the end of the year as well.

Brandt Montour (Director and Senior Equity Research Analyst)

Great. Thanks, everyone.

Operator (participant)

The next question comes from Dan Politzer with Wells Fargo. Please proceed.

Dan Politzer (Director and Senior Equity Research Analyst)

Hey, good afternoon, everyone. First question on Singapore, on IR2. Can you talk to us a bit about the regulatory landscape and outlook? You know, remind us maybe in terms of when the licensing goes through as it currently stands. And I assume you expect this to remain a duopoly market or maybe even better. But is there any expectation for how you think about gaming tax rates as you underwrite the returns on this building?

Patrick Dumont (President and COO)

Yeah, so I think for us, the way we model this is that we basically have a moratorium on the changes in gaming tax until the early 2030s. I think for us, you know, we view this investment as a very long-term thing, and we'd like to believe that we'll continue to add value to Singapore, and that it will continue to be a good partner to the government and and accomplish the goals in tourism that are necessary. So I think from that standpoint, we feel like it's a very stable operating environment. It's a, it's a wonderful place to deploy capital. It has been a wonderful place to deploy capital. We feel, as Rob referenced earlier, that there's a stability there and, you know, a very strong trajectory forward for us.

So I think as we look at underwriting this, it's a very long-dated investment, right? It doesn't open for six years, hopefully sooner, but we'll see. And that's obviously pending government approval, along with, you know, the final approvals that we need to begin by the summer of next year. But we think about this as a very long-term thing, and we feel very excited about what we can build there. The gaming is a nice add, but there's also a lot of things that are going to drive tourism that are going to be very, very beneficial to us as well, like the arena, like the hospitality, like the food and beverage, to enhance the overall appeal of the entire complex.

So I think for us, look at this in a very long-term way. We feel like there's very high barriers to entry there. I think right now it seems like the feeling is that it is a duopoly market for the foreseeable future, and we certainly hope it stays that way, but from our standpoint, we look forward to the opportunity to invest in scale, and that's what we're doing.

Dan Politzer (Director and Senior Equity Research Analyst)

Got it. And then just turning to Macau, the promotions obviously came down quarter over quarter. I mean, as we think about getting back to those, you know, mid- to high-30% type margins in Macau, you know, is this really a function of recapturing shares, seeing more of the visitation come back, or at least kind of gaming-oriented visitation? Or, you know, is this really kind of you need the market to grow to get back to those levels?

Patrick Dumont (President and COO)

Well I think the first thing is, for us to get to a high you know, to get to the high 30s-low 40s margin, we need revenue growth, and we need all the segments to return. You know, right now, some of our segments have not returned, particularly the base mass segment, to where they were pre-pandemic, and we are built for that. Our investment is one for scale. So we have the ability to service the premium mass segment very well. The Londoner is an incredible product. You know, the rest of our portfolio has incredible products as well.

But if you look at the scale and the amenities that we have, everything from food and beverage to the bus terminals, to the grand entryways, to the theming, we're very much able to accommodate leisure tourists. And so for us, you know that, that missing visitation, if you will, from 2019 and also, you know, the lack of the base mass play is impactful to us. So the way, the way we would get to the higher margins is through revenue growth. That being said, I have to hand it to the team there. They've been wonderful in terms of cost discipline and being disciplined in the way that they spend money to ensure that we maintain our margins up against the current revenue that we have.

But I think as we look forward, our investments will ultimately drive higher value visitation in the long run, and we firmly believe that. We see that historically, and we've experienced it in other markets and in this market, particularly when we do high value renovations. So I think for us, you know, as visitation continues to improve, hopefully, you know, as the base mass market continues to improve and as we continue to get our premium mass segment assets back online, you'll start to see a normalization of revenue and then a normalization of margins. Grant, do you have any additional comments?

Grant Chum (CEO and President)

I think you covered it perfectly. Thanks.

Dan Politzer (Director and Senior Equity Research Analyst)

Got it. Thanks so much.

Robert Goldstein (Chairman and CEO)

Dan? Hello?

Patrick Dumont (President and COO)

Operator, do we have any additional questions?

Operator (participant)

Yes. The next question is from Chad Beynon with Macquarie. Please proceed.

Chad Beynon (Managing Director and Senior Analyst)

Afternoon, thanks for taking my question. You've been asked a lot about Macau, but I'm gonna add one more to the stack here. So, obviously, you and the other concessionaires went through the whole re-tendering process two years ago, and we've gone through the the checklist of items, including, you know, your industry-leading employment and other items. But with the new chief executive coming into his position in Macau, in I believe, a month or so, is there anything that we should expect in terms of market focus, concessionaire focus, or is it kind of business as usual as they transition through that? Thanks.

Robert Goldstein (Chairman and CEO)

Let me say, we're always very focused on making sure we're doing our job with the government and adhering to the, things we, we were asked to do. I don't believe the new chief exec will change that, but we will stay focused and listen very carefully, to make sure we're doing our part. We always do that historically in Macau, and we've always been, I think, a leading company as far as investing in Macau and adhering to Macau's principles. So I don't expect to see radical change at all. I think it's gonna be business as usual for the most part. Wilfred, you have an opinion on that?

Wilfred Wong (Executive Vice Chairman)

Yeah, I think the concession commitment maps out a long-term development focus. So, all six of us have thought very carefully and comprehensively what we want to do under the guidance of the Macau SAR government. And I think, you know, the change at the top will not have material changes to the directional change. Because what has been emphasized so far is that Macau really aims to diversify. We should invest in non-gaming. I think these directions will remain.

We just feel that as Rob pointed out, that as long as we conduct our business as usual and listen very carefully to what the government has to say, depending on what happens in the next few years, we should be able to continue to operate favorably in Macau.

Chad Beynon (Managing Director and Senior Analyst)

Okay, that's helpful. Thank you for that. And then, separately, one of your global competitors was recently granted a license in the Middle East. They presented some pretty favorable investment returns to investors in the past couple of weeks. They also mentioned that they expect competition in that region from others. So is this a region that you continue to study, or are there reasons why this would be a, you know, pencils down, investment opportunity as you think about it? Thanks.

Patrick Dumont (President and COO)

I think we're always looking at new investment opportunities for Las Vegas Sands. I think it's a market that we'll continue to study and look at, and we'll see how it goes.

Chad Beynon (Managing Director and Senior Analyst)

Okay. Thanks, Patrick.

Operator (participant)

The next question comes from Vitaly Umansky with Seaport. Please proceed.

Vitaly Umansky (Senior Analyst)

Hey, guys, how's it going? Look, I think I have two questions. Maybe first one for Patrick. When we look at Sands China and kind of cash flows coming in, how are you guys thinking about distribution of that cash going forward? Obviously, there's future CapEx requirements under the, under the re-tendering process. There's other expenditures that need to take place, but there's also an intercompany note that's still outstanding between LVS and Sands China. There's also, I think, investors looking at Sands China and thinking about, you know, can Sands China get back to being a higher dividend paying stock the way it used to be in the past? So maybe for Sands China, how are you thinking about capital outflows? And then-...

I think for LVS as a whole, with the announcement and kind of the CapEx layout now from Marina Bay Sands, how are you thinking about, number one, financing for MBS, phase two? And also, what does that mean for return of capital to, investors of LVS? And then maybe the second question is around, basically-

Robert Goldstein (Chairman and CEO)

Wait, that was one question?

Vitaly Umansky (Senior Analyst)

Sorry, sorry, guys.

Robert Goldstein (Chairman and CEO)

Keep going.

Patrick Dumont (President and COO)

Keep going, Vitaly, you're good. Keep going.

Vitaly Umansky (Senior Analyst)

Yeah, just some questions around New York, what your current thinking and thought process is around the New York licensing process?

Patrick Dumont (President and COO)

So, really appreciate the questions. A couple of thoughts. First off, in terms of SCL, you know, I think SCL is performing incredibly well given the disruptions there. And I think we'd like to believe that EBITDA will grow meaningfully over time, you know, as will our cash flow. And so, you know, in years past, prior to the pandemic, SCL was very shareholder-friendly in terms of dividends. And, as you can see, that LVS is actually buying SCL stock, as we can in the market, because we have a lot of conviction about the value of SCL equity as well as LVS equity, as you can see by the buybacks at the LVS level as well.

I think as we think about SCL, we're very hopeful that it will be a dividend payer in the upcoming year. We think that that's a possibility, and we'd like to believe that it's going to occur. But again, that's up to the board there. And I think in terms of the note, I'd like to believe that's also something that could be repaid to the parent level at some point and provide some additional capital allocation flexibility for the parent co. And we'll see how that goes and be able to hopefully, maybe buy some stock with it, if that's possible. So we'll see. But I think in the long term, we'd like to believe that SCL becomes a dividend payer again. We think that makes sense for the shareholders there.

At the LVS level, we'd like to own more of it, and you'll probably see us do a little bit more of that. But in the long run, we think there's gonna be a very high-quality return on capital program coming out of SCL, assuming the trajectory of the business, given the investment we've made and our belief long term in the market. I think at the LVS level, there's a couple of things that you, you've raised there. I think first and foremost, I think when we think about capital allocation, we think about growth. You know, our highest and best use of capital is new ground-up development.

So you see us doing that, both in Macau as part of some of our concession work, as well as in Singapore, along with this IR2 development that has just a panoply of great amenities, including which is gonna be, we believe, the best hotel in the world and an unbelievable arena. So, you know, we think these are great investments that will create a lot of growth and growth in cash flow for our company. So that leads to your next question, which is: How do we finance this? And our goal is actually to follow what we've always said, which is raise some cost-efficient debt capital. It's one of the reasons why we like being an investment-grade name. It makes our cost of financing efficient for new growth developments, and we'll look to do that.

And you know, if you think about the proportion of debt to equity, I think it's pretty consistent with what we've talked about. You know, let's call it in the 35% context of equity, and the rest will be financed, given the debt capacity that we have at the MBS balance sheet. You know, the great news is that we've run up the low leverage level there with the anticipation of funding an IR2 development. So now that's coming to be, so we're prepared for it, and we look forward to the opportunity to work with our lenders to create that financing facility to allow for it to be built.

So I think as we move forward, you'll see a delayed draw term loan at the MBS level to fund the construction with equity checks going in as well over time. Over the construction schedule, we actually have a construction schedule that will be provided. Again, it's kind of illustrative. It's something that is a rough estimate today. It's designed to give people a sense of the timing of cash flows. And that's actually on page 46 of the deck, if you wanna get a sense of kind of what we're thinking. It may not exactly be this, but this is the context, you know, from what we can understand and see today.

And so our goal is to, in effect, create the flexibility to continue to invest in high growth opportunities, continue to pay a dividend, and continue to repurchase shares at both levels. And you know, hopefully, we'll be able to do that, but that's our plan. And then I'll turn over to Rob for New York.

Robert Goldstein (Chairman and CEO)

What was the... I'm sorry, it was a long, the question was on New York, was the issue itself?

Vitaly Umansky (Senior Analyst)

Yeah, Rob, just-

Robert Goldstein (Chairman and CEO)

Are you-

Vitaly Umansky (Senior Analyst)

-kind of what the-

Robert Goldstein (Chairman and CEO)

Yeah, New York, just refresh my memory?

Grant Chum (CEO and President)

On the capital allocation.

Robert Goldstein (Chairman and CEO)

Was the question about New York? In what regard? I didn't hear the whole question. Are you there?

Vitaly Umansky (Senior Analyst)

It's just about what the current is from your end, in terms of what the New York process is and what, where do you expect it to go from here? Because there's been delays and continuing-

Robert Goldstein (Chairman and CEO)

Yeah, yeah. Okay.

Vitaly Umansky (Senior Analyst)

Yeah.

Robert Goldstein (Chairman and CEO)

Got it. Yeah, so the thinking right now is that the license will be submitted sometime in, I mean, applications for licensure sometime in spring of 2025, where the decision this morning, I was told, will probably be first quarter of 2026, but they have to make a decision. We remain interested in the process. You know, I've always been the biggest advocate for New York and other jurisdictions. The only concern I have these days is the ongoing strengths of online gambling, which you can't ignore what's happening in New Jersey and in Pennsylvania and in Michigan, and I think it's four of the markets, but you know, we build capital-intensive buildings that require long-term perspective.

I must admit that there's got to be some kind of way of of of thinking about how the online impact would be, no matter where you are in the U.S. It's just a concern, and it's something I've been looking at closely. I'd love to be in New York with the right capital structure and the right licensure process. That's the newest wrinkle in the process. As far as the process, New York itself hasn't really changed. They're still talking late 2025, early 2026 for a decision. My personal thinking has been influenced somewhat by the last six months as I see the growth of online gambling. Just something to think about as we move forward in any market where online gambling is is possible.

You know, I think sometime in the next year or two, you're going to see online exceed land-based revenues in New Jersey, which is pretty exceptional.

Vitaly Umansky (Senior Analyst)

Rob, sorry, does that mean if, for instance, New York were to legalize online gaming, that you would have to reevaluate what your proposal would be for New York?

Robert Goldstein (Chairman and CEO)

It goes beyond that. My concern is we don't know what it'll. As you know, our buildings take a long time. As you see by Singapore, they take years to finish. I need some understanding of how the market, any market, thinks about online gambling anywhere you go. If Singapore legalized online gambling, it'll make you stop and think about IR2. If any market does legalize, you have to think, what does it mean to me and my capital investment? And I think whether it's New York or Michigan or Florida, any place that's online, it makes you stop and scratch your head. There's going to be some resolution of the issue.

I'm not saying they'll tell you definitively, but you can't ignore that possibility when you see the impact of online in New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Michigan, and probably the other four states are coming online. You can't ignore the impact on land-based revenue.

Vitaly Umansky (Senior Analyst)

Yes, that makes sense. Thanks, thanks for the, for the update.

Robert Goldstein (Chairman and CEO)

Thank you.

Operator (participant)

Okay, the next question comes from George Choi with Citigroup. George, your line is live.

George Choi (Research Analyst)

Thanks very much. So we were at the Londoner Grand a few weeks ago and noticed that the min bets at the baccarat tables there were noticeably lower versus the Londoner Casino. I just wondered if that is temporary, or does that signal any difference in marketing, market positioning between the two phases?

Robert Goldstein (Chairman and CEO)

I think it signals even more rooms above it. I was there, I guess, 10 days ago or so. I think what you're going to see, George, over time, is the Londoner, like the Venetian, will become the most dominant player and players in the market. No, no questions asked about it, no change in marketing. Just need to complete the product, get the rooms done on top. There's a lot of people in the building, but you need to get the right premium mass customer to achieve the minimum bets you want to achieve. I stand by. We've done this now for. We started Londoner, I think, five, six, seven years ago, began with Sheldon, the Londoner process. It's finally complete in the spring of 2025.

I remain completely steadfast in my belief that it's going to dominate that Londoner, and the Venetian will dominate the market. No concern whatsoever, and the minimum, that's when you count them, you'll be very happy with them as you get more rooms above the building, above the casino. In any building in the world that is gambling, there's always a complete, I mean, having the rooms connected to the casino, having easy access, is always a an essential element of success. The Londoner, while it's open, is not going to achieve the same goals as the Venetian or Londoner one, until I have the rooms open.

George Choi (Research Analyst)

That's very good color. And as a follow-up, when the Londoner is fully open next year, how should we think about the EBITDA trajectory going forward at the neighboring properties, the Parisian, Macau?

Robert Goldstein (Chairman and CEO)

The question, how it affects other businesses?

George Choi (Research Analyst)

Yeah, that's right.

Robert Goldstein (Chairman and CEO)

Yeah. From my perspective and the team, Grant may have a different take on it. I've always said that I think Londoner and Venetian will be the one in two players or two in one players, each making $1 billion. My goal is $1 billion plus for each of those buildings, and the rest of the portfolio will be, you know, another $1 billion plus. That's my goal for our company long term over the next few years. But again, as Patrick referenced, and Grant, and everybody in this call, we need to see a return to more base mass gaming. You saw the differential between visitation and gaming. In the past, visitation was a complete predictor of gaming revenue. That broke rank recently. We're seeing lots of visitation, but not the gaming to accompany it, and that's a negative.

I mean, there's no hiding from the fact that it's disappointing to see a bigger base mass tail. I have full faith that China will figure out its economy. It's too important to the world not to. And as China recovers and base mass recovers, that our company, SCL LVS, will be the biggest recipient of revenue, margin, and growth in Macau. It's going to happen for sure. You know, Sheldon used to say, "Day follows night, night follows day." China will get back to a better place, and will recover. Base, the confidence will recover. Macau will continue to grow in the thirties and beyond, and someday we'll get back to $3-plus billion EBITDA, and those two buildings will stand very, very tall. Does it negatively impact the Four Seasons? Not really. It's a stellar small product. The Parisian as well.

I think there's a lot of confidence that in the aggregate, that portfolio is unique and it and they all speak to each other. We have the ability to market within the portfolio. So again, as Londoner gets stronger, it doesn't mean others get weaker. It just means there's more strength in the market. But I would tell you that the real upside of this company will be the day when, yes, we'll do very well in premium mass, but when that base mass recovers, that tail will drive us to a whole new level of opportunity, and that day is coming.

George Choi (Research Analyst)

That's very clear. Thank you very much.

Robert Goldstein (Chairman and CEO)

Thank you. Enjoy your reports, George.

Operator (participant)

The next question comes from David Katz with Jefferies. Please proceed.

David Katz (Managing Director and Equity Research Analyst)

Hi, evening. Thanks for taking my question. I wanted to go back to Golden Week for a moment, if I may. You know, I would say that, you know, we, the Street collectively, had a set of expectations going into Golden Week, and, you know, the result turned out to be, you know, quite a bit stronger than that. And for better or worse, to where we get our information, how those expectations are set, I'm curious where yours were and, you know, whether Golden Week turned out to be materially better than, you know, what you were looking for, and exactly what the drivers of that were, please.

Patrick Dumont (President and COO)

So as typical, we'll talk about this in ninety-two days. We don't talk about current quarter on the earnings call, but appreciate the question.

David Katz (Managing Director and Equity Research Analyst)

Okay, thanks very much.

Operator (participant)

Thank you. This does conclude today's conference call. You may disconnect your phone lines at this time and have a wonderful day. Thank you for your participation.